---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/30/08: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:35 AM - Metal Fuel Tubing (P.H. Raker) 2. 05:45 AM - Monday Evening Chat Room Reminder (George Race) 3. 07:22 AM - Re: Filler (LarryMcFarland) 4. 08:17 AM - Re: Fuel tank caps for 601XL (Robert Haskins) 5. 09:24 AM - Re: Filler (Bill Naumuk) 6. 09:50 AM - Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing (ThisOne) 7. 10:04 AM - Re: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing (Craig Payne) 8. 10:17 AM - Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing (ThisOne) 9. 10:28 AM - Re: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing (Craig Payne) 10. 10:35 AM - Arlington Fly-in (Darrell Haas) 11. 11:11 AM - Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing (ThisOne) 12. 11:27 AM - Re: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing (Craig Payne) 13. 11:37 AM - Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing (ThisOne) 14. 12:37 PM - Re: Filling Rivet Head Holes (Gagarin737) 15. 01:18 PM - Re: Arlington Fly-in (Terry Phillips) 16. 02:38 PM - Re: Arlington Fly-in (LHusky@aol.com) 17. 03:53 PM - Re: Filling Rivet Head Holes (rgeese) 18. 06:54 PM - Re: Arlington Fly-in (Dan Lykowski) 19. 07:41 PM - Jon Croke Please send me an email (cookwithgas) 20. 07:46 PM - Re: Arlington Fly-in (Paul Mulwitz) 21. 08:53 PM - Re: Filling Rivet Head Holes (JohnDRead@aol.com) 22. 09:04 PM - Re: Filler (JohnDRead@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:38 AM PST US From: "P.H. Raker" Subject: Zenith-List: Metal Fuel Tubing Copper tubing should never be used in any sort of vehicle, especially for fuel or brake lines. Copper work-hardens in a vibration situation (unavoidable in vehicles of any type), and will eventually crack and leak! Phil Raker N556P HDS/Stratus ~85% completed > From: Bryan Martin > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Need to Order Fuel Tubing > > > I used the 3003 3/8" OD aluminum tubing from ACS. This will work fine > for the relatively low pressure of a typical fuel system. It is > shipped coiled up, so it's easier to package and is soft enough to > bend easily without tools. I don't remember ever seeing aluminum > tubing at an auto parts store, most of the fuel tubing used in cars is > made of steel. Copper could be used I guess, but it's heavy and pretty > expensive right now and is not suitable for use with aluminum fittings. > >> On Jun 28, 2008, at 4:28 PM, lwhitlow wrote: >> >> >> All >> >> I am planning to eliminate the rubber fuel lines in the cabin. I >> want to go with metal tubing >> >> Questions >> >> 1 Which alloy is best for this? >> 2 What size? Same as the ID of the rubber tubing I'm replacing?? >> > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:48 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Monday Evening Chat Room Reminder Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM Eastern Time. http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ George CH-701 - N73EX ALMOST DONE Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:37 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filler I don't casually use any filler Bill, with the exception of one spot where I dinged the wing skin the area of a dime. and on the fiberglass cowling. In that spot of aluminum, I used Bondo. Seems to have worked. Larry McFarland do not archive Bill Naumuk wrote: > > Larry- > Aye, bucko, but the question was, what do you use for filler that > will stick and stay stuck on those painted areas? I won't be needing > more than what it takes to clean up the edges of the outboard tips and > stab tips. Purely for vanity's sake. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" > > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filler ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:18 AM PST US From: "Robert Haskins" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel tank caps for 601XL Thanks everyone for the help. We are in the process of moving everything to a new workshop.Unfortunately, it won't make me any smarter. We put two layers of cork under the tank. I am anxious to get everything "unbuttoned" and try again. Thanks again. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:34 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filler Larry- I'm not crazy about using filler, either. I can live without it, but once again, it's vanity. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 10:19 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filler > > I don't casually use any filler Bill, > with the exception of one spot where I dinged the wing skin the area of a > dime. > and on the fiberglass cowling. > In that spot of aluminum, I used Bondo. Seems to have worked. > > Larry McFarland > do not archive > > Bill Naumuk wrote: >> >> Larry- >> Aye, bucko, but the question was, what do you use for filler that will >> stick and stay stuck on those painted areas? I won't be needing more than >> what it takes to clean up the edges of the outboard tips and stab tips. >> Purely for vanity's sake. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" >> >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 3:25 PM >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filler > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing From: "ThisOne" Or..... You can use a -6 Teflon Stainless Steel braided line with a clear cover. Here is an example..... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190574#190574 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_valve_207.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:43 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing Can you recommend a source? -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ThisOne Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 10:48 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing Or..... You can use a -6 Teflon Stainless Steel braided line with a clear cover. Here is an example..... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190574#190574 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuel_valve_207.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:17:03 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing From: "ThisOne" craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: > Can you recommend a source? > > -- Craig > > -- Who is this question for? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190580#190580 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:28:00 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing "ThisOne", in response to "You can use a -6 Teflon Stainless Steel braided line with a clear cover." Can you recommend a source? -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ThisOne Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 11:14 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: > Can you recommend a source? > > -- Craig > > -- Who is this question for? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190580#190580 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:11 AM PST US From: "Darrell Haas" Subject: Zenith-List: Arlington Fly-in Anyone planning on flying to the EAA Arlington Fly-in in Washington State? I live near Portland, Oregon and I'm looking for a ride since my 601 is still in the garage in pieces. I obviously would share expenses and would prefer to only stay a couple of days ( I know beggars can't be choosers but their is the wife and a dog back home wondering why I'm not there. ) If I can't find a ride, my wife and I may drive up for a night. ( Dog has to stay home.) I would love to see some of the completed Zodiac 601's up there. Let me know so I can meet up with some of you and put a face to the emails. Thanks, Darrell Haas ph 971 563 6474 601 XL 20% N723DD Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:37 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing From: "ThisOne" craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: > "ThisOne", in response to "You can use a -6 Teflon Stainless Steel braided > line with a clear cover." Can you recommend a source? > > -- Craig > > -- Craig, The lines you see here were made by be. Company is Bonaco. Sent you an e-mail. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190589#190589 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:12 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing > The lines you see here were made by be. Company is Bonaco. Thanks, got it. Found your web site too: http://www.bonacoinc.com/ -- Craig ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:10 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Need to Order Fuel Tubing From: "ThisOne" craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: > > > The lines you see here were made by be. Company is Bonaco. > > > > > > Thanks, got it. Found your web site too: > > http://www.bonacoinc.com/ > > -- Craig Craig, Yup...that's us. Please note that the web site is being re-done, and at this point has no mention of hombuilder assistance hose/fittings. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190595#190595 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:20 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Filling Rivet Head Holes From: "Gagarin737" I know for sure "Andre van den Elsen" from the Netherlands did fill the holes. He build a CH701 and a CH601XL. What I believe was the main reason to avoid black stripes from the rivets when dirt collects in the holes. Websites of Andre; http://home.tiscali.nl/a.vandenelsen/ http://members.lycos.nl/andrevandenelsen/ Try to contact him, e-mail is mentioned on the site. Very nice guy. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190598#190598 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:59 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Arlington Fly-in Hi Darrell I'm going, driving also--unfortunately, but from MT rather than OR. If you make it there, it would be nice to meet a fellow 601 builder. I'm planning to be there Friday Saturday, and possibly Thursday. Let me know if we overlap--perhaps we could have lunch or whatever. Terry At 10:32 AM 6/30/2008 -0700, you wrote: > Anyone planning on flying to the EAA Arlington Fly-in in Washington > State? I live near Portland, Oregon and I'm looking for a ride since my > 601 is still in the garage in pieces. I obviously would share expenses > and would prefer to only stay a couple of days ( I know beggars can't be > choosers but their is the wife and a dog back home wondering why I'm not > there. ) > If I can't find a ride, my wife and I may drive up for a night. ( Dog > has to stay home.) I would love to see some of the completed Zodiac 601's > up there. Let me know so I can meet up with some of you and put a face to > the emails. >Thanks, >Darrell Haas ph 971 563 6474 >601 XL 20% >N723DD >Do Not Archive Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:04 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Arlington Fly-in Darrell, I am going to go up there, I just have not decided if I am driving up on Friday and leaving early Sunday, or if I am just going to fly up there for the day in a Cessna. My XL airframe is almost done and I have to go look at some engine stuff. I will know more this weekend. Larry Husky Madras, Oregon In a message dated 6/30/2008 1:19:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ttp44@rkymtn.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Phillips Hi Darrell I'm going, driving also--unfortunately, but from MT rather than OR. If you make it there, it would be nice to meet a fellow 601 builder. I'm planning to be there Friday Saturday, and possibly Thursday. Let me know if we overlap--perhaps we could have lunch or whatever. Terry At 10:32 AM 6/30/2008 -0700, you wrote: > Anyone planning on flying to the EAA Arlington Fly-in in Washington > State? I live near Portland, Oregon and I'm looking for a ride since my > 601 is still in the garage in pieces. I obviously would share expenses > and would prefer to only stay a couple of days ( I know beggars can't be > choosers but their is the wife and a dog back home wondering why I'm not > there. ) > If I can't find a ride, my wife and I may drive up for a night. ( Dog > has to stay home.) I would love to see some of the completed Zodiac 601's > up there. Let me know so I can meet up with some of you and put a face to > the emails. >Thanks, >Darrell Haas ph 971 563 6474 >601 XL 20% >N723DD >Do Not Archive Terry Phillips ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:07 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Filling Rivet Head Holes From: "rgeese" I also considered filling the holes when I first started my project, but soon got my wits about me! However, I DID fill the holes in the rivets on my instrument panel with JB Weld. I lightly sanded them when dry and before paint. I have to say that they look beautiful, but I can't imagine trying to do the entire plane this way! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190626#190626 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:50 PM PST US From: Dan Lykowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Arlington Fly-in My wife and I will be there at some point. I think she is planning on camping Friday night. I'll have to ask. Dan Lykowski --- On Mon, 6/30/08, LHusky@aol.com wrote: > From: LHusky@aol.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Arlington Fly-in > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, June 30, 2008, 5:34 PM > Darrell, > > I am going to go up there, I just have not decided if I am > driving up on > Friday and leaving early Sunday, or if I am just going to > fly up there for the > day in a Cessna. My XL airframe is almost done and I have > to go look at some > engine stuff. I will know more this weekend. > > Larry Husky > Madras, Oregon > > > In a message dated 6/30/2008 1:19:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight > Time, > ttp44@rkymtn.net writes: > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: Terry Phillips > > > Hi Darrell > > I'm going, driving also--unfortunately, but from MT > rather than OR. If you > make it there, it would be nice to meet a fellow 601 > builder. I'm planning > to be there Friday Saturday, and possibly Thursday. Let > me know if we > overlap--perhaps we could have lunch or whatever. > > Terry > > > At 10:32 AM 6/30/2008 -0700, you wrote: > > Anyone planning on flying to the EAA Arlington > Fly-in in Washington > > State? I live near Portland, Oregon and I'm > looking for a ride since my > > 601 is still in the garage in pieces. I obviously > would share expenses > > and would prefer to only stay a couple of days ( I > know beggars can't be > > choosers but their is the wife and a dog back home > wondering why I'm not > > there. ) > > If I can't find a ride, my wife and I may drive > up for a night. ( Dog > > has to stay home.) I would love to see some of the > completed Zodiac 601's > > up there. Let me know so I can meet up with some of > you and put a face to > > the emails. > >Thanks, > >Darrell Haas ph 971 563 6474 > >601 XL 20% > >N723DD > >Do Not Archive > > > Terry Phillips > ttp44~at~rkymtn.net > Corvallis MT > 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, > flaps, & ailerons > are done; working on the wings > http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ > > > > > > > > > > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos > for > fuel-efficient used cars. > (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:44 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Jon Croke Please send me an email From: "cookwithgas" Jon: Please send me an email with your new email address. Thanks, Scott Laughlin cookwithgas@hotmail.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190651#190651 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:54 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Arlington Fly-in My wife and I have been talking about driving up there. I wish we could fly, but there is a slight shortage of a working plane. Paul Camas, WA do not archive At 10:32 AM 6/30/2008, you wrote: > Anyone planning on flying to the EAA Arlington Fly-in in > Washington State? ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:29 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filling Rivet Head Holes I did not even contemplate filling the rivets on my 701 for the following reason. The pull rod in the rivets is covered with zinc. Zinc has the interesting characteristic of being a sacrificial metal so if there is a scratch or a small broken end as on the rivet pull, rod the zinc will eventually creep over the surface and heal the "wound". John Read Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 In a message dated 6/29/2008 9:08:10 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, notsew_evets@frontiernet.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "steve" When I started my QBK I decided to fill the rivets with bondo. Do you know that there are 8,432 rivets in the XL?. I did the fuselage only. It was a waste of time. The empty holes look good as is. SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland" Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 7:40 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filling Rivet Head Holes > > > Hi Burke, > Wait a bit before trying to fill those holes. You've got a lot of work > ahead and the obsession with them is going to fade as you complete your > aircraft. > It's not a car and some things just don't require the type of detailing > you see in the automotive world. I'd just prime and paint after putting > the best > spacing, set uniformity and straight lines into the rivets you do use. I > never filled any of the holes and doubt you could tell from 10 feet away. > http://www.macsmachine.com/images/completion/full/viewwingrivets.jpg > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com > > > rbjjr wrote: >> >> Searched for this first but found nothing so I'll apologize ahead of time >> if this has already been much discussed. >> Any thoughts on filling rivet holes and if so, with what? I (finally) >> have my rudder complete and seeing all those holes with exposed steel in >> them makes we want to fill them with something. Of course any filler >> would have to be non-corrosive, permanent and paint-able. >> Has anyone done this and if so with what kind of results? >> >> Thanks >> >> Burke Johnson CH701 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190376#190376 >> >> >> >> >> > > > **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:24 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filler I had another thought re filling the rivets or fixing the crinkles. Why not stand back about twenty feet then look at your handy work and see if filling the rivets will matter a hoot! John Read Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 In a message dated 6/29/2008 8:01:36 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, naumuk@alltel.net writes: Paul- You're in close to the same situation as me.I don't have gaps, but the "Crinkles" left from trying to form the aluminum around the fiberglass. You're also basically talking about the same stuff as I'm thinking of using. It's Bondo with fiberglass threads mixed in. It'll never come off, but once it sets up it's like steel. I think I'm going to talk to a guy I went to high school with and owns a body shop. He's only 10 minutes away so hopefully I can get him to do the job without grinding my rivets off. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: _Paul Mulwitz_ (mailto:psm@att.net) Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2008 12:49 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Filler Hi Bill, I too am wondering how to deal with the small gaps left on my wing tips. One thing I am considering is to build up the fiberglass with epoxy laden flox. This is similar to filling with bondo or similar stuff, but instead of adding a new layer of material it actually bonds to the composite structure and becomes part of it. The flox will not be as easy to make beautiful, but that is not my goal. I am more interested in providing a good surface for the air flow. I am also planning to do a similar job on the front of my engine cowl. After installing both the top and bottom to my plane there are gaps in the front corners that I want to smooth over. Epoxy and flox should do the job with possible glass cloth in areas that need larger fills. It seems odd that the most difficult problems to fix on an "All Metal" plane are actually fiberglass issues. Paul XL getting close At 08:31 AM 6/29/2008, you wrote: All- I'm polishing 95%+ of my project, but don't see any way of making the top skin/tip fiberglass rib juncture look good without a bit of filler and paint. Not because of gaps, but "Crinkles".I've decided to paint just the nose skin and tips of the outboards and stab. I've seen projects that used regular Bondo and the damned stuff cracks and comes out. Fiberfil sticks great, but you can't work it like Bondo. I'm afraid of grinding off aluminum trying to smooth out the Fiberfil. Any alternatives, or should I just haul my outboards and stab to a paint shop and let them deal with it? Not that that's a guarantee- I remember a posting many moons ago where a paint shop ground off the tops of the rivets while painting. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS Systems/Corvair 90% href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. 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