Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:00 AM - Re: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 (Dan Lykowski)
2. 08:12 AM - Chat Room Reminder (George Race)
3. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 (Craig Payne)
4. 11:55 AM - Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 (Sabrina)
5. 12:58 PM - Re: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 (Juan Vega)
6. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 (Dan Lykowski)
7. 07:05 PM - Rudder Light Custom Fairing (Dave VanLanen)
8. 08:20 PM - Re: Re: Flutter Experience (Terry Phillips)
9. 09:19 PM - Re: Re: Flutter Experience (Paul Mulwitz)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 |
I guess I should have clarified. The 400-knit display uses the same backlight as
the 800-knit display. The display was modified to focus more light to your eyes
instead of wasting it inside of the case.
I don't know any specifics on mortality rates as I just write software. But if
the data exists I don't see why we would have a problem sharing it.
I do know that the engineering units that I use have been through hell and back
and they still work. At least 2 years old 8 hours a day sometimes left on overnight
and on weekends. Power cycled 50+ times a day. The only thing we don't
do to them daily is run the temperatures up and down.
Dan Lykowski
Dynon Avionics
--- On Mon, 7/7/08, Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com> wrote:
> From: Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 12:54 AM
> <chicago2paris@msn.com>
>
> The key here is that the case and electronics were designed
> for 400 nits and a maximum temp of 122 F.
>
> I am sure Mr. Lamers could design a panel that would put
> out 2000 nits for 20 years at 170F ambient. That is not
> the question.
>
> The rub here is: What is the effect on longevity of the
> D180 as a whole when you double the nits without
> redesigning the case, the cooling, the other components
> inside? Especially where such a low ambient temperature
> was speced in the first place.
>
> You can attend Women Soar on Monday and Tuesday if you
> want! You will find me hanging out with the RRL guys
> Tuesday afternoon.
>
> It would be a pleasure to meet you.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191539#191539
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Chat Room Reminder |
Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM
Eastern Time.
<http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/> http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
George
CH-701 - N73EX
TAXI TESTED !
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 |
FWIW this is what Rainier at MGL had to say when asked about "Screen
brightness, reliability and MTBF"
<quote>
MTBF on CCFL backlights is not something that is terribly high on my list of
concerns.
Our tubes are rated at between 50.000 and 80.000 hours at a nominal current
designed for display applications where the display is on for 24/7.
It is quite permissible to increase the current through the tubes in our
applications to increase light output provided the additional heat generated
can dissipate. Life time is decreased and the decrease is dependent on the
amount of additional current put through the tubes. Up to about 50%
overcurrent the effects are negligible and a life time of 30.000 hours
minimum is still available (Life time is measured to the point where the
brightness has degraded to 50% of the starting value).
Note that this does not apply for "normal" CCFL tubes, you will blow them
quickly if you drive them too hard - this can only be done on long life
tubes where you trade some of the extra life time for more brightness.
Naturally these are a little bit more expensive.
In total I would estimate that we have produced around 4000 instruments over
the years that use either one or two CCFL tubes as backlight and we have
never had a failure that we are aware of, not even one.
There are other methods that can be used to increase light output and we
tend to use a combination of increased light generation and utilization. It
is interesting to note that a normal TFT display can only radiate about 8%
of the light created by the backlight system.
The rest is lost in polarizers, color filters and simply blocked by active
components that are part of the LCD glass.
The display used in the Enigma MKII is, as far as I can establish, the
Worlds brightest TFT LCD display based on a standard frame. It manages this
largely by a clever combination of light directors and a special polarizer
and also minimizing losses due to material density changes as the light
travels through various layers of the display.
Rainier
<end quote>
-- Craig
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 |
Hello Dan!
Couple of questions. You get more nits from the same backlight. Have you as
the software engineer boosted power to the old backlight to get more nits out?
Since I have a center mounted screen where both the pilot and co-pilot look at
the screen at an angle, could that be the reason Dynon sugguested that I do NOT
upgrade to the more focused 800 nit screen?
You are focusing the same 400 nit backlight to now focus 800 nits at the pilot,
does this assume the D180 is mounted directly in front of the pilot?
If you have not boosted the power and only re-directed or focused the light, and
you are the co-pilot with an 800 nit screen sitting directly in front of the
the pilot, the screen would seem dimmer to you, the co-pilot, than even the old
400 nit unit because of the angle--you are sharing less of the now pilot focused
light?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191629#191629
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 |
I hope my plane too flys for 40,000 hours so I can see my screen MTBF happen.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
>Sent: Jul 7, 2008 2:28 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180
>
>
>FWIW this is what Rainier at MGL had to say when asked about "Screen
>brightness, reliability and MTBF"
>
><quote>
>MTBF on CCFL backlights is not something that is terribly high on my list of
>concerns.
>
>Our tubes are rated at between 50.000 and 80.000 hours at a nominal current
>designed for display applications where the display is on for 24/7.
>It is quite permissible to increase the current through the tubes in our
>applications to increase light output provided the additional heat generated
>can dissipate. Life time is decreased and the decrease is dependent on the
>amount of additional current put through the tubes. Up to about 50%
>overcurrent the effects are negligible and a life time of 30.000 hours
>minimum is still available (Life time is measured to the point where the
>brightness has degraded to 50% of the starting value).
>Note that this does not apply for "normal" CCFL tubes, you will blow them
>quickly if you drive them too hard - this can only be done on long life
>tubes where you trade some of the extra life time for more brightness.
>Naturally these are a little bit more expensive.
>
>In total I would estimate that we have produced around 4000 instruments over
>the years that use either one or two CCFL tubes as backlight and we have
>never had a failure that we are aware of, not even one.
>
>There are other methods that can be used to increase light output and we
>tend to use a combination of increased light generation and utilization. It
>is interesting to note that a normal TFT display can only radiate about 8%
>of the light created by the backlight system.
>The rest is lost in polarizers, color filters and simply blocked by active
>components that are part of the LCD glass.
>The display used in the Enigma MKII is, as far as I can establish, the
>Worlds brightest TFT LCD display based on a standard frame. It manages this
>largely by a clever combination of light directors and a special polarizer
>and also minimizing losses due to material density changes as the light
>travels through various layers of the display.
>
>Rainier
><end quote>
>
>-- Craig
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 |
All,
I am first and foremost on this list as a builder so although I am happy to provide
any information that I know, the best place to ask these questions is on
the Dynon Forum, or by calling Tech Support.
Dynon has put a significant amount of time engineering the bright screen option
so I cannot tell you the exact methods we use to get the extra brightness.
I have said all I can already. It will not shorten the life of the display, you
just have to trust us on this one.
It seems odd to me that we would have explicitly told you not to upgrade your screen.
I believe our stance has been that if you were happy with it, then there
is not any need to upgrade. There are a lot of factors that play in to the visibility
of the display including placement in the panel, sunlight where you
are flying, type of canopy, etc.. Only you can really be the judge as to if you
need the upgrade or not.
I believe that our screens have 170 degree visibility. ( I may be wrong on this
one. )
Remove Dynon Hat...
As a side note, I don't have my panel even remotely planned or any clue about sunlight
visibility in a 601XL. I do plan on putting in dual Dynon Screens. My
thoughts are that I will go for the bright screen option because of the bubble
canopy, but the sunny weather here in Seattle may not make it necessary. ;)
Dan Lykowski
Dynon Avionics
--- On Mon, 7/7/08, Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com> wrote:
> From: Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 2:52 PM
> <chicago2paris@msn.com>
>
> Hello Dan!
>
> Couple of questions. You get more nits from the same
> backlight. Have you as the software engineer boosted
> power to the old backlight to get more nits out?
>
> Since I have a center mounted screen where both the pilot
> and co-pilot look at the screen at an angle, could that be
> the reason Dynon sugguested that I do NOT upgrade to the
> more focused 800 nit screen?
>
> You are focusing the same 400 nit backlight to now focus
> 800 nits at the pilot, does this assume the D180 is mounted
> directly in front of the pilot?
>
> If you have not boosted the power and only re-directed or
> focused the light, and you are the co-pilot with an 800 nit
> screen sitting directly in front of the the pilot, the
> screen would seem dimmer to you, the co-pilot, than even
> the old 400 nit unit because of the angle--you are sharing
> less of the now pilot focused light?
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191629#191629
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Rudder Light Custom Fairing |
Has anyone successfully fabricated a rudder light fairing for a 601XL? If
so, do you have any details that you could share? I think I may be going
with a tail light instead of the combo wing tip lights, and I would like to
use the new Kuntzleman round combo tail / strobe light, however the Zenith
fiberglass fairing appears to be a little too small for this light fixture.
Craig referred me to an example of a 701 with a nice aluminum fairing, but
it was quite large, and I would prefer to keep it as small as possible for
the faster 601XL.
Thanks for any help you can provide.
Dave Van Lanen
601XL - finishing tail
From: "Craig Payne" <craig(at)craigandjean.com>
Subject: rudder light
<http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=68177633?KEYS=ta
illight_fairing?LISTNAME=Zenith?HITNUMBER=1?SERIAL=18500516212?SHOWBUTTONS=N
O>
If you want to save power Kuntzleman has a new LED taillight:
http://www.kestrobes.com/heads.htm#NEW_ITEM!
<http://www.kestrobes.com/heads.htm>
Also the fiberglass taillight fairing from Zenith is not a great fit for
some taillights. Others have bent up their own from Al sheet.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Haas
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 1:07 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: rudder light
What are people using for the rear light on the rudder? I don't have
one yet and wonder if I should rivet the rudder before buying and
installing the light or go ahead and finish the rudder and add the
light later. What about the wires. Best bang for the buck? Zenith vs
??
Darrell
601 XL
reserved N723DD
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Experience |
Good points, Ron. It may be moot, however, because, so far, no one else has
come forward who encountered flutter in their 601XL. That suggests that
flutter may be a very uncommon occurrence--which is good news.
I wanted to post Tom's experience, because I thought there was a lesson
there for all 601 flyers--check your cable tension regularly. Thank God he
was able to get back down to pass along his freshly acquired wisdom.
I have a question--what is "hinge play." And, that brings to mind another
variable that I should have asked for--piano or flex hinge?
Thanks for the thoughts.
Terry
do not archive
At 05:34 PM 7/6/2008 -0700, you wrote:
>Terry,
>
>I think you might want to know what the cable tensions and hinge play are
>also.
>
>--------
>Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
>Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Experience |
Hi Terry,
I think you are selling yourself short a little. There were two
really important lessons shown by your story. The first and most
obvious one was the story about watching aileron cable tension and
making sure it is not too slack.
The more interesting lesson was about how to deal with an event when
the plane starts vibrating like mad. In your story and in Bill of
Georgia's story the solution was to do a radical banking
maneuver. This makes sense when coupled with the new information
that the aileron cable tension was loose. By performing a steep bank
the tension on one of the ailerons was increased and the vibration
stopped. I suspect if the first bank doesn't stop the vibration then
banking in the other direction will do it. This makes a great
"Emergency Procedure" for all XL pilots to perform if they ever get
into the heavy vibration situation.
I remember reading at least two different accident reports involving
in-flight structure failure where witnesses heard repeated changes in
engine speed. I am guessing these unfortunate pilots experienced the
aileron vibration and mistakenly guessed it was the engine that was
stimulating the vibration. They then moved the throttle in and out
several times to try to break the vibration. I just can't think of
any other explanation for the radical engine noise changes reported
by the witnesses.
I really appreciate your post of this story. I am hopeful you have
found the actual "Smoking Gun" behind the problems.
Paul
XL nearly done
At 08:16 PM 7/7/2008, you wrote:
>I wanted to post Tom's experience, because I thought there was a
>lesson there for all 601 flyers--check your cable tension regularly.
>Thank God he was able to get back down to pass along his freshly
>acquired wisdom.
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