---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/07/08: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:00 AM - Re: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 (Dan Lykowski) 2. 08:12 AM - Chat Room Reminder (George Race) 3. 11:35 AM - Re: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 (Craig Payne) 4. 11:55 AM - Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 (Sabrina) 5. 12:58 PM - Re: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 (Juan Vega) 6. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 (Dan Lykowski) 7. 07:05 PM - Rudder Light Custom Fairing (Dave VanLanen) 8. 08:20 PM - Re: Re: Flutter Experience (Terry Phillips) 9. 09:19 PM - Re: Re: Flutter Experience (Paul Mulwitz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:00:52 AM PST US From: Dan Lykowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 I guess I should have clarified. The 400-knit display uses the same backlight as the 800-knit display. The display was modified to focus more light to your eyes instead of wasting it inside of the case. I don't know any specifics on mortality rates as I just write software. But if the data exists I don't see why we would have a problem sharing it. I do know that the engineering units that I use have been through hell and back and they still work. At least 2 years old 8 hours a day sometimes left on overnight and on weekends. Power cycled 50+ times a day. The only thing we don't do to them daily is run the temperatures up and down. Dan Lykowski Dynon Avionics --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Sabrina wrote: > From: Sabrina > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 12:54 AM > > > The key here is that the case and electronics were designed > for 400 nits and a maximum temp of 122 F. > > I am sure Mr. Lamers could design a panel that would put > out 2000 nits for 20 years at 170F ambient. That is not > the question. > > The rub here is: What is the effect on longevity of the > D180 as a whole when you double the nits without > redesigning the case, the cooling, the other components > inside? Especially where such a low ambient temperature > was speced in the first place. > > You can attend Women Soar on Monday and Tuesday if you > want! You will find me hanging out with the RRL guys > Tuesday afternoon. > > It would be a pleasure to meet you. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191539#191539 > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:28 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Chat Room Reminder Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM Eastern Time. http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ George CH-701 - N73EX TAXI TESTED ! Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:35:54 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 FWIW this is what Rainier at MGL had to say when asked about "Screen brightness, reliability and MTBF" MTBF on CCFL backlights is not something that is terribly high on my list of concerns. Our tubes are rated at between 50.000 and 80.000 hours at a nominal current designed for display applications where the display is on for 24/7. It is quite permissible to increase the current through the tubes in our applications to increase light output provided the additional heat generated can dissipate. Life time is decreased and the decrease is dependent on the amount of additional current put through the tubes. Up to about 50% overcurrent the effects are negligible and a life time of 30.000 hours minimum is still available (Life time is measured to the point where the brightness has degraded to 50% of the starting value). Note that this does not apply for "normal" CCFL tubes, you will blow them quickly if you drive them too hard - this can only be done on long life tubes where you trade some of the extra life time for more brightness. Naturally these are a little bit more expensive. In total I would estimate that we have produced around 4000 instruments over the years that use either one or two CCFL tubes as backlight and we have never had a failure that we are aware of, not even one. There are other methods that can be used to increase light output and we tend to use a combination of increased light generation and utilization. It is interesting to note that a normal TFT display can only radiate about 8% of the light created by the backlight system. The rest is lost in polarizers, color filters and simply blocked by active components that are part of the LCD glass. The display used in the Enigma MKII is, as far as I can establish, the Worlds brightest TFT LCD display based on a standard frame. It manages this largely by a clever combination of light directors and a special polarizer and also minimizing losses due to material density changes as the light travels through various layers of the display. Rainier -- Craig ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:55:21 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 From: "Sabrina" Hello Dan! Couple of questions. You get more nits from the same backlight. Have you as the software engineer boosted power to the old backlight to get more nits out? Since I have a center mounted screen where both the pilot and co-pilot look at the screen at an angle, could that be the reason Dynon sugguested that I do NOT upgrade to the more focused 800 nit screen? You are focusing the same 400 nit backlight to now focus 800 nits at the pilot, does this assume the D180 is mounted directly in front of the pilot? If you have not boosted the power and only re-directed or focused the light, and you are the co-pilot with an 800 nit screen sitting directly in front of the the pilot, the screen would seem dimmer to you, the co-pilot, than even the old 400 nit unit because of the angle--you are sharing less of the now pilot focused light? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191629#191629 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:24 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 I hope my plane too flys for 40,000 hours so I can see my screen MTBF happen. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Craig Payne >Sent: Jul 7, 2008 2:28 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 > > >FWIW this is what Rainier at MGL had to say when asked about "Screen >brightness, reliability and MTBF" > > >MTBF on CCFL backlights is not something that is terribly high on my list of >concerns. > >Our tubes are rated at between 50.000 and 80.000 hours at a nominal current >designed for display applications where the display is on for 24/7. >It is quite permissible to increase the current through the tubes in our >applications to increase light output provided the additional heat generated >can dissipate. Life time is decreased and the decrease is dependent on the >amount of additional current put through the tubes. Up to about 50% >overcurrent the effects are negligible and a life time of 30.000 hours >minimum is still available (Life time is measured to the point where the >brightness has degraded to 50% of the starting value). >Note that this does not apply for "normal" CCFL tubes, you will blow them >quickly if you drive them too hard - this can only be done on long life >tubes where you trade some of the extra life time for more brightness. >Naturally these are a little bit more expensive. > >In total I would estimate that we have produced around 4000 instruments over >the years that use either one or two CCFL tubes as backlight and we have >never had a failure that we are aware of, not even one. > >There are other methods that can be used to increase light output and we >tend to use a combination of increased light generation and utilization. It >is interesting to note that a normal TFT display can only radiate about 8% >of the light created by the backlight system. >The rest is lost in polarizers, color filters and simply blocked by active >components that are part of the LCD glass. >The display used in the Enigma MKII is, as far as I can establish, the >Worlds brightest TFT LCD display based on a standard frame. It manages this >largely by a clever combination of light directors and a special polarizer >and also minimizing losses due to material density changes as the light >travels through various layers of the display. > >Rainier > > >-- Craig > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:18 PM PST US From: Dan Lykowski Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 All, I am first and foremost on this list as a builder so although I am happy to provide any information that I know, the best place to ask these questions is on the Dynon Forum, or by calling Tech Support. Dynon has put a significant amount of time engineering the bright screen option so I cannot tell you the exact methods we use to get the extra brightness. I have said all I can already. It will not shorten the life of the display, you just have to trust us on this one. It seems odd to me that we would have explicitly told you not to upgrade your screen. I believe our stance has been that if you were happy with it, then there is not any need to upgrade. There are a lot of factors that play in to the visibility of the display including placement in the panel, sunlight where you are flying, type of canopy, etc.. Only you can really be the judge as to if you need the upgrade or not. I believe that our screens have 170 degree visibility. ( I may be wrong on this one. ) Remove Dynon Hat... As a side note, I don't have my panel even remotely planned or any clue about sunlight visibility in a 601XL. I do plan on putting in dual Dynon Screens. My thoughts are that I will go for the bright screen option because of the bubble canopy, but the sunny weather here in Seattle may not make it necessary. ;) Dan Lykowski Dynon Avionics --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Sabrina wrote: > From: Sabrina > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Bright screen on Dynon D-180 > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 2:52 PM > > > Hello Dan! > > Couple of questions. You get more nits from the same > backlight. Have you as the software engineer boosted > power to the old backlight to get more nits out? > > Since I have a center mounted screen where both the pilot > and co-pilot look at the screen at an angle, could that be > the reason Dynon sugguested that I do NOT upgrade to the > more focused 800 nit screen? > > You are focusing the same 400 nit backlight to now focus > 800 nits at the pilot, does this assume the D180 is mounted > directly in front of the pilot? > > If you have not boosted the power and only re-directed or > focused the light, and you are the co-pilot with an 800 nit > screen sitting directly in front of the the pilot, the > screen would seem dimmer to you, the co-pilot, than even > the old 400 nit unit because of the angle--you are sharing > less of the now pilot focused light? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=191629#191629 > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:53 PM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Rudder Light Custom Fairing Has anyone successfully fabricated a rudder light fairing for a 601XL? If so, do you have any details that you could share? I think I may be going with a tail light instead of the combo wing tip lights, and I would like to use the new Kuntzleman round combo tail / strobe light, however the Zenith fiberglass fairing appears to be a little too small for this light fixture. Craig referred me to an example of a 701 with a nice aluminum fairing, but it was quite large, and I would prefer to keep it as small as possible for the faster 601XL. Thanks for any help you can provide. Dave Van Lanen 601XL - finishing tail From: "Craig Payne" Subject: rudder light If you want to save power Kuntzleman has a new LED taillight: http://www.kestrobes.com/heads.htm#NEW_ITEM! Also the fiberglass taillight fairing from Zenith is not a great fit for some taillights. Others have bent up their own from Al sheet. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Haas Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 1:07 PM Subject: Zenith-List: rudder light What are people using for the rear light on the rudder? I don't have one yet and wonder if I should rivet the rudder before buying and installing the light or go ahead and finish the rudder and add the light later. What about the wires. Best bang for the buck? Zenith vs ?? Darrell 601 XL reserved N723DD ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:36 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Flutter Experience Good points, Ron. It may be moot, however, because, so far, no one else has come forward who encountered flutter in their 601XL. That suggests that flutter may be a very uncommon occurrence--which is good news. I wanted to post Tom's experience, because I thought there was a lesson there for all 601 flyers--check your cable tension regularly. Thank God he was able to get back down to pass along his freshly acquired wisdom. I have a question--what is "hinge play." And, that brings to mind another variable that I should have asked for--piano or flex hinge? Thanks for the thoughts. Terry do not archive At 05:34 PM 7/6/2008 -0700, you wrote: >Terry, > >I think you might want to know what the cable tensions and hinge play are >also. > >-------- >Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Terry Phillips ZBAGer ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:17 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Flutter Experience Hi Terry, I think you are selling yourself short a little. There were two really important lessons shown by your story. The first and most obvious one was the story about watching aileron cable tension and making sure it is not too slack. The more interesting lesson was about how to deal with an event when the plane starts vibrating like mad. In your story and in Bill of Georgia's story the solution was to do a radical banking maneuver. This makes sense when coupled with the new information that the aileron cable tension was loose. By performing a steep bank the tension on one of the ailerons was increased and the vibration stopped. I suspect if the first bank doesn't stop the vibration then banking in the other direction will do it. This makes a great "Emergency Procedure" for all XL pilots to perform if they ever get into the heavy vibration situation. I remember reading at least two different accident reports involving in-flight structure failure where witnesses heard repeated changes in engine speed. I am guessing these unfortunate pilots experienced the aileron vibration and mistakenly guessed it was the engine that was stimulating the vibration. They then moved the throttle in and out several times to try to break the vibration. I just can't think of any other explanation for the radical engine noise changes reported by the witnesses. I really appreciate your post of this story. I am hopeful you have found the actual "Smoking Gun" behind the problems. Paul XL nearly done At 08:16 PM 7/7/2008, you wrote: >I wanted to post Tom's experience, because I thought there was a >lesson there for all 601 flyers--check your cable tension regularly. >Thank God he was able to get back down to pass along his freshly >acquired wisdom. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.