---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/11/08: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:50 AM - Re: Rudder Light Custom Fairing (Craig Payne) 2. 04:58 AM - Re: Question about Construction Standards/rivet clearance (Carlos Sa) 3. 07:53 AM - Re: Question about Construction Standards/rivet clearance (Dave VanLanen) 4. 08:06 AM - Re: Question about Construction Standards/rivet clearance (Terry Phillips) 5. 08:41 AM - XL wing installation (Craig Spainhower) 6. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Light Custom Fairing (Rick Lindstrom) 7. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: Rudder Light Custom Fairing (Iberplanes IGL) 8. 09:47 AM - Re: XL wing installation (DaveG601XL) 9. 10:26 AM - Re: XL wing installation (Jaybannist@cs.com) 10. 12:01 PM - Re: XL wing installation () 11. 01:36 PM - Re: XL wing installation (Juan Vega) 12. 02:36 PM - Re: XL wing installation (Builder601xl@aol.com) 13. 02:55 PM - Re: XL wing installation (Jaybannist@cs.com) 14. 05:44 PM - Re: XL wing installation (dingfelder) 15. 06:40 PM - Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL (Terry Phillips) 16. 07:38 PM - Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL (Ron Lendon) 17. 11:32 PM - Re: Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL (Terry Phillips) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:51 AM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Rudder Light Custom Fairing I've attached some pictures of the metal tail light fairing on Rick Lindstrom's 601XL. I took it at the Arlington fly-in today (Thursday). Since this plane was built in William Wynne's hanger in Florida I assume someone there (probably Gus) fabricated it. -- Craig ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:41 AM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question about Construction Standards/rivet clearance Have you tried to gently force the rib into position? I find that the ribs will move a good 2-3 mm sideways, specially away from the spar. If you are uneasy with the situation, give ZAC a call. Carlos 2008/7/10 Ronald Steele : > > I'm at the point of aligning the top skin on the wing. I'm trying align > the pre-drilled holes with the ribs, one of which isn't perfectly aligned. > The problem is the distance to the bend radius. If I read the Construction > Standards correctly as long as the rivet hole doesn't intersect the bend > radius its considered safe. Can someone verify this or give me a correct > interpretation? > > Ron > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:55 AM PST US From: "Dave VanLanen" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Question about Construction Standards/rivet clearance Ron, Here is how Caleb at ZAC answered a similar question for me when I was installing the elevator trim cutout channel and having trouble with one of the existing holes in the elevator skin coming close to the radius of the channel: "As long as the hole isn't in the radius it will be fine. The rivet tail can be 'overlapping' onto the radius" Hope this helps, Dave Time: 08:25:10 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Zenith-List: Question about Construction Standards/rivet clearance I'm at the point of aligning the top skin on the wing. I'm trying align the pre-drilled holes with the ribs, one of which isn't perfectly aligned. The problem is the distance to the bend radius. If I read the Construction Standards correctly as long as the rivet hole doesn't intersect the bend radius its considered safe. Can someone verify this or give me a correct interpretation? Ron ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:18 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question about Construction Standards/rivet clearance Ron My bottom skins (purchased in 2007) are not right. They were too wide (in a front to rear sense) and the cut out for the tie down was in the wrong location. I talked to ZAC. They said they would replace them. But I did a work around of drilling new holes, a few mm rearward of the original line, located between the originals to avoid the bend on the spar cap angle. However, when my EAA Tech Counselor looked at it, he told me I should get new skins. I plan to do that. Just haven't done it yet. I'm on travel for a week or so. When I get home, I'd be glad to send you some measurements for comparison if you're interested. Actually, I posted something on this subject 3 or 4 months ago, and you might be able to find it in the archives. Terry At 07:52 AM 7/11/2008 -0400, you wrote: >Have you tried to gently force the rib into position? >I find that the ribs will move a good 2-3 mm sideways, specially away from >the spar. > >If you are uneasy with the situation, give ZAC a call. > >Carlos > >2008/7/10 Ronald Steele <rsteele@rjsit.com>: ><rsteele@rjsit.com> > >I'm at the point of aligning the top skin on the wing. I'm trying align >the pre-drilled holes with the ribs, one of which isn't perfectly >aligned. The problem is the distance to the bend radius. If I read the >Construction Standards correctly as long as the rivet hole doesn't >intersect the bend radius its considered safe. Can someone verify this or >give me a correct interpretation? > >Ron Terry Phillips ZBAGer ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:45 AM PST US From: "Craig Spainhower" Subject: Zenith-List: XL wing installation I'm at the point of installing the wings on my XL and am looking for tips on how others have accomplished this feat. When I trimmed back the wing where it intersects the fuselage I left and extra 10 - 15 mm, so I will have to have it held in place while I mark for a final cut. I should have several bodies available but was thinking about using saw horses or something similar to carry the weight. What have others done? Craig S. N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235, 99% complete ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:12:45 AM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Rudder Light Custom Fairing Craig, you're exactly right about the tail light fairing. I showed up one morning to build, and Gus had decided he did't like the plastic one the night before, and had whipped up the metal version in very little time. Perhaps he should offer them as an aftermarket item? Maybe if he got enough requests through flywithgus.com, he'd consider it... Rick Lindstrom -----Original Message----- >From: Craig Payne >Sent: Jul 11, 2008 12:46 AM >To: Craig Payne >Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Rudder Light Custom Fairing > >I've attached some pictures of the metal tail light fairing on Rick >Lindstrom's 601XL. I took it at the Arlington fly-in today (Thursday). Since >this plane was built in William Wynne's hanger in Florida I assume someone >there (probably Gus) fabricated it. > > > >-- Craig > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:42 AM PST US From: "Iberplanes IGL" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Rudder Light Custom Fairing Well Rick, I want one, if possible. That=B4s a good idea. Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:47:05 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: XL wing installation From: "DaveG601XL" Craig, I did the wing install with one low-slung table, a cushion and my wife holding the end of the wing. A saw horse or two can work also, but you should have them cushioned for protection. As the wing is inserted, use an inspection mirror to watch the spar holes pass by each other. I cut mine similar to yours in that I left 10-15 mm over the print dimensions. When I inserted the wing, the inner most wing spar holes lined up with the outermost center spar holes so I knew just how much further I had to go. I trimmed a bit at a time until all three holes lined in and than made about a 1/4" gap between the fuselage and wing skin. Do not be too aggressive, especially on the leading edge, it is easy to over cut this if you do not pay attention to the rear channel alignment. The gap on mine is just a bit bigger than I would like, but I think I can live with it. Matt from www.zodiacxl.com over-cut his to an unacceptable extent and his web site shows the repair he did to resolve it. Good luck! -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, working on final assembly. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192281#192281 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:50 AM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL wing installation Craig, The attached photo shows how I did it. I had another guy helping, but with this setup, I could have done it alone. I trimmed the wing skins to the cut line from the drawings. As I recall, the only extra trimming I had to do was on the bottom for the gear bracket. I had the right amount of gap to install the rubber wing root gasket. Let me know if you have questions. Jay in Dallas "Craig Spainhower" wrote: >I'm at the point of installing the wings on my XL and am looking for tips on >how others have accomplished this feat. When I trimmed back the wing where >it intersects the fuselage I left and extra 10 - 15 mm, so I will have to >have it held in place while I mark for a final cut. I should have several >bodies available but was thinking about using saw horses or something >similar to carry the weight. What have others done? > >Craig S. >N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235, 99% complete > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:11 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL wing installation I'm just finishing up my wing installation rack------I'm using four s wiveling casters from Harbor Freight, lockable, and a wood frame. Two four foot 1"x8" boards with the casters in from the ends about 3", sep arated by a stud length (92" long--ya use what ya got) 2x4 spine. The uprights are suitably braced 2x4's, and 2x4 T-bars at top. The upright s are NOT equal. You'll need to measure out how far from the fuselage you want the inner wheels to be, then go to a trig table on the Net. Y ou'll figure out the tangent of 5.5 degrees, using the selected locati on of the inboard support, then figure the distance from inner to oute r, and figure the height of the outer. In my case, I used the measur ed height of the bottom of the carry-through, 26", went 24" out, whic h made the inner support 31" (above the floor) and then figured the ou ter support at 40.5. It doesn't need to be very precise. You'll compen sate for minor errors with carpeting on the top crossbars, and move in or outward along the wing as necessary to get the precise height. I'm told that if you get it right, you can lock the wheels, and slide the wing in. Murphy's Law will probably prevail when I get it out to the hangar, but it'll be close enough. One of the guys in my hangar cauti oned me that the rear of the wing wants to sag, and to make sure it's well supported.=0A=0APaul Rodriguez=0A601XL/Corvair=0A -- --- Original Message ----- =0A From: Craig Spainhower =0A To: zenith-list@matronics.com =0A Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:39 AM=0A Sub ject: Zenith-List: XL wing installation=0A=0A=0A I'm at the point of installing the wings on my XL and am looking for tips on how others have accomplished this feat. When I trimmed back the wing where it intersects the fuselage I left and extra 10 - 15 mm, so I will h ave to have it held in place while I mark for a final cut. I should ha ve several bodies available but was thinking about using saw horses or something similar to carry the weight. What have others done?=0A =0A Craig S.=0A N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235, 99% complete=0A ======================= ======================0A_ ======================= ======================= ======================= ======================= ======================= =======0A=0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:57 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL wing installation nice paint job. how did you do the nose art? -----Original Message----- >From: Jaybannist@cs.com >Sent: Jul 11, 2008 1:23 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL wing installation > >Craig, > >The attached photo shows how I did it. I had another guy helping, but with this setup, I could have done it alone. > >I trimmed the wing skins to the cut line from the drawings. As I recall, the only extra trimming I had to do was on the bottom for the gear bracket. >I had the right amount of gap to install the rubber wing root gasket. Let me know if you have questions. > >Jay in Dallas > > >"Craig Spainhower" wrote: > >>I'm at the point of installing the wings on my XL and am looking for tips on >>how others have accomplished this feat. When I trimmed back the wing where >>it intersects the fuselage I left and extra 10 - 15 mm, so I will have to >>have it held in place while I mark for a final cut. I should have several >>bodies available but was thinking about using saw horses or something >>similar to carry the weight. What have others done? >> >>Craig S. >>N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235, 99% complete >> ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:40 PM PST US From: Builder601xl@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL wing installation Craig The easiest way to do it is to use an engine hoist and 2 straps. That alloys you to pivot the wing and slide it into the center section by yourself. When it is just right the 6 bolts slide right in. I made a template that I can send you for trimming the wings. I have used it for 3 601xl's now and it will be a much better fit than Zenith's cutout pattern. Some will caution you not to use them but if you want I will send them to you if you promise to send them back because others have asked me about using them. If you decide to use them the root seal will not need anything to hold it in place other than 2 rivets at the trailing edge. Jeff _www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com) 502-644-8123 **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com! (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:23 PM PST US From: Jaybannist@cs.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL wing installation Hey Juan, Thanks for the "atta boy"! For the nose art, I drew and colored the dragon with AutoCAD. I printed it out full size to check for sizing. I created a reverse image in the same file. I e-mailed the AutoCAD file to World Class Graphics. They sent me a proof and when I approved it (with minor adjustments) they made vinyl decals. That's what you see on "Lil Bruiser". Fun stuff! Jay in Dallas Juan Vega wrote: > > >nice paint job. how did you do the nose art? > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Jaybannist@cs.com >>Sent: Jul 11, 2008 1:23 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL wing installation >> >>Craig, >> >>The attached photo shows how I did it. I had another guy helping, but with this setup, I could have done it alone. >> >>I trimmed the wing skins to the cut line from the drawings. As I recall, the only extra trimming I had to do was on the bottom for the gear bracket. >>I had the right amount of gap to install the rubber wing root gasket. Let me know if you have questions. >> >>Jay in Dallas >> >> >>"Craig Spainhower" wrote: >> >>>I'm at the point of installing the wings on my XL and am looking for tips on >>>how others have accomplished this feat. When I trimmed back the wing where >>>it intersects the fuselage I left and extra 10 - 15 mm, so I will have to >>>have it held in place while I mark for a final cut. I should have several >>>bodies available but was thinking about using saw horses or something >>>similar to carry the weight. What have others done? >>> >>>Craig S. >>>N601XS, 601xl lyc 0-235, 99% complete >>> > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:02 PM PST US From: "dingfelder" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: XL wing installation Craig, I just used a table and shimmed the wing with cushons to the correct vertical position, using the mirror/ hole alignment method. Conservatively trim the wing root skin area as you work it in toward the fuse, using a marker to draw trim marks parallel to th fuse side skin. Pay attention also to the rear spar position. I used long soft bolts with tapered ends to help nudge the holes into alignment. I trimmed many times in the process to finally get the correct clearance, which is determined by the rubber root moulding. I epoxied a minor extension back on to support the rubber where I trimmed a bit too far. I found the whole job to be easier than expected. Lynn 601 XL / Corvair painting ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:29 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL [OFF-LINE] Hi Dave A couple of picts of combo lights. I was at the Arlington Flyin today and noticed the lights on the Jabiru LSA A/C. They are the GS-Air/Kunzleman variety. Take a look at the attached photos. If they are legal on the Jabiru, I cannot believe they could not be mounted with at least as good rearward visibility on the 601XL. Terry At 04:59 PM 7/2/2008 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone successfully installed the Kuntzleman Streamline Combo >nav/strobe lights on a 601XL, and do the rear-facing white nav lights meet >the FAA approved light pattern? I was originally going to install the >round nav light in the rudder, but it adds more wiring and extra weight, >so I=92d rather go with the combo system if I can. I like the Kuntzleman >system because it is lightweight, has a single strobe power pack in the >fuselage, and only draws about 3 to 4 amps total, including the strobes >and LED nav lights. However I can=92t figure out how to verify whether the >rear-facing white LED lights would meet the FAA approved light pattern. I >haven=92t started on my wings yet, (I will be starting soon), but when I >have looked at the shape of the wingtip on other XLs, it appears that the >light mounting pads are forward of the outermost curvature of the wingtip, >so I am concerned that the wingtip will block the view to the rear. If I >understand it correctly, the white lights must be visible 70 degrees to >either side of a longitudinal line through the center of the A/C at a >distance of 1200 feet behind the A/C, but there is no practical way for me >to check this. > >Any help would be appreciated. > >Dave Van Lanen > >601XL ' finishing tail Terry Phillips ZBAGer ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:36 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL From: "Ron Lendon" Gentlemen, I have just used a CAD system and drew up what you are trying to do. It works with lots of clearance if the lights are at the furthest point out and as high on the wing tip as you can get them. I also made mine perpendicular to earth so there will be good coverage above and below. I am using the AeroFlash units but the solution is still the same. FYI -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192345#192345 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:23 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL Thanks, Ron. That is a common sense approach. I wish my CAD skills were good enough to do the same. Terry do not archive At 07:35 PM 7/11/2008 -0700, you wrote: >Gentlemen, I have just used a CAD system and drew up what you are trying >to do. It works with lots of clearance if the lights are at the furthest >point out and as high on the wing tip as you can get them. I also made >mine perpendicular to earth so there will be good coverage above and >below. I am using the AeroFlash units but the solution is still the same. > >FYI > >-------- >Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI >Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) Terry Phillips ZBAGer ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.