Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:26 AM - Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (Robert N. Eli)
2. 05:24 AM - Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (Al Hays)
3. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Iberplanes IGL)
4. 06:54 AM - Re: Hand Sewn Leather Seats (Gig Giacona)
5. 06:56 AM - Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (Gig Giacona)
6. 07:05 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Gig Giacona)
7. 07:24 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Iberplanes IGL)
8. 07:36 AM - Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL (Dave VanLanen)
9. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Jay Maynard)
10. 08:21 AM - Re: Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (thesumak@aol.com)
11. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (William Dominguez)
12. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (Art Gibeaut)
13. 09:06 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Gig Giacona)
14. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (Randy L. Thwing)
15. 09:49 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Sabrina)
16. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (Paul Mulwitz)
17. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (Dave Austin)
18. 10:52 AM - Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (Craig Payne)
19. 11:11 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Gig Giacona)
20. 11:33 AM - Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (Gig Giacona)
21. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
22. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Derek Lewis)
23. 11:55 AM - Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (T. Graziano)
24. 12:37 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Juan Vega)
25. 01:30 PM - Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (kmccune)
26. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 (Rick Lindstrom)
27. 02:05 PM - Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days (cookwithgas)
28. 02:10 PM - Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days (Gig Giacona)
29. 02:23 PM - Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (Gig Giacona)
30. 02:23 PM - Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days (Cory Emberson)
31. 02:23 PM - Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days (jaybannist@cs.com)
32. 02:36 PM - Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days (Juan Vega)
33. 02:43 PM - Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? (kmccune)
34. 02:50 PM - Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days (wade jones)
35. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL (Terry Phillips)
36. 03:57 PM - Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days (Bill Naumuk)
37. 03:57 PM - Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days (Jugle)
38. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL (Craig Payne)
39. 04:34 PM - Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days (leinad)
40. 05:07 PM - Re: Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL (Terry Phillips)
41. 06:26 PM - Over filling during flight? (LarryMcFarland)
42. 06:41 PM - Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days (William Dominguez)
43. 07:01 PM - Re: Over filling during flight? (Craig Payne)
44. 07:06 PM - Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days (Jay Maynard)
45. 07:51 PM - do not assume (Carlos Sa)
46. 08:42 PM - Re: do not assume (Ashcraft, Keith - AES)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
I'm a CH701 guy and can't find the new split list for the 701's. I went to
matronics and there was no mention of a CH701 list separate from other
Zenith aircraft. Currently, I seem to just be receiving 601XL stuff.
What's up with this spit list stuff??
Bob Eli
N701K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Was it such a good idea to split the lists?
>
> All-
> I totally agree with you, Craig. Even prior to the split, the archives
> were never a way of getting information quickly. In addition, I never know
> if something got through or a reply wound up on another list.
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:12 PM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Was it such a good idea to split the lists?
>
>
>>
>> Wait till you need to search the archives and have to check in three
>> places.
>> :-)
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonaburns
>> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 6:41 PM
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Was it such a good idea to split the lists?
>>
>>
>> Since there are not a lot of posts this weekend, and I need something to
>> do
>> while waiting for primer to dry, I am going to see what you all think.
>>
>> Does it still seem like a good ides to split the zenith lists?
>>
>> It seems like there are only a few posts each day, and many are cross
>> posting to all the groups anyway. Since there is still good info in the
>> 701/801 list it actually takes much longer to check each list every day.
>> Even using the digest, there are 3 (or 4 if you get them all) email
>> covering
>> largely the same topics.
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>>
>> Jon Burns
>> Little Elm, TX
>> 601XL - Working on canopy...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192558#192558
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
Bob,
Try looking on http://www.matronics.com/subscribe/ for Zenith701801.
I don't like having the Zenith family of airplanes split up and moved
to separate addresses. I frequently get several copies of the exact
same message, one on each list. Not anything I can't manage, but
still an unnecessary nuisance.
Al Hays
Ch701 & 601, N5892H & N701GH reserved
On Jul 15, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Robert N. Eli wrote:
> <robert.eli@comcast.net>
>
> I'm a CH701 guy and can't find the new split list for the 701's. I
> went to matronics and there was no mention of a CH701 list separate
> from other Zenith aircraft. Currently, I seem to just be receiving
> 601XL stuff. What's up with this spit list stuff??
>
> Bob Eli
> N701K
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Sabrina,
Very well said and now i know, thank you!!, that this is the way to welcome
a fellow who post an accident, very polite answer, I=B4m going to use Juans
Vega ways to reply !! ...
*I cant believe it. its like gound hog day with this issue. I think a
competitor to the zenith line is getting on here to rehash old news that is
dead and buried. If you think the zenith design is unsafe, Sell you plane
and go buy something else, you have no place in building a plane.
The 99% majority of us have confidence in the design, confidence in our
construction, we are aware we built it and are the manufacturers, not
Zenith. We in the majority are fully aware that a plane is not a toy, and
that you fly it within its envelope. Fly within its envelope, and fly
safely and you will enjoy a great design. To the minority that have doubts
,
sell you plane and move on to another hobby.*
Mirko send me an off list mail to ask me what have he done, off course, the
sin of publishing an accident. That=B4s called "free of spech" in America,
Am
I wrong? When back in 1998 I was reading the list very interesting
comparissons were made XL vs RVs.... BTW, what were you doing at that year?
enough said.
Juan, the first thing he thinks ... A competitor!!!, good ... still remembe
r
when the was a post asking to publish our serials in other to know who was
a
builder, well you have mine, but you said * I would not appreciate someone
challenging me like that either and may well refuse to respond to a similar
demand. *Smart and nice answer tough. *
*but this is my favorite *"Wild speculation not only hurts the value of all
our airplanes unnecessarily, but it can be very irritating. Sometimes I
think it best for novice builders to follow my lead and do more listening
than writing until they have at least one bird in the air"* for posting an
accident???? I=B4m forgot you are an star on the list and have the authorit
y
to make such a comment, ... and now imagine how irritated was Mirko when h
e
read the reply!
*
*Funny part are the emails, off-list, that I=B4m receiving, of people on
matronics list who want to know more information and are afraid to ask on
the list!! That=B4s the idea.... send off-list emails, I do not care to rep
ly
them. *
*Well, enough said. It=B4s been a pleasure to discuss with you *
*
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Hand Sewn Leather Seats |
Zenith makes canopy covers for 701. They are in the plans. I think they call them
wings. :)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
ch701builder wrote:
> Also,
> Lori is the one that makes the canopy covers for the 601. I am wondering if she
has thought about making them for the 701 as well.
>
> Keith
> CH701builder -- scratch
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192838#192838
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
Then let's all vote and ask Matt to undo the split if that is the will of the users.
I vote 1 list.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192839#192839
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Alberto,
You shouldn't be surprised when a new person who says they have completed signs
on to the list for the first time and and his question is about an accident.
I'm not saying Mirko is one of them but there are people on the Internet that are
trying to hurt competitors.
That said Mirko received 3 perfectly responsible and polite replies from Rick,
Jay and George. Not to mention Sabrina's post that proves that contrary to popular
belief that teenagers do, in fact, have a clue.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192842#192842
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Gig,
in this case you are right, but on a private mail Mirko told me they were
his friends, and he could not understand why he was given "the welcome
reply", of couse now his on the ZBAG list.
Regarding Rick response, you can read mine there too. For me it is imposible
to understand why many poeple get so upset when there is an accident.
Thanks for your email.
2008/7/15 Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>:
>
> Alberto,
>
> You shouldn't be surprised when a new person who says they have completed
> signs on to the list for the first time and and his question is about an
> accident.
>
> I'm not saying Mirko is one of them but there are people on the Internet
> that are trying to hurt competitors.
>
> That said Mirko received 3 perfectly responsible and polite replies from
> Rick, Jay and George. Not to mention Sabrina's post that proves that
> contrary to popular belief that teenagers do, in fact, have a clue.
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192842#192842
>
>
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL |
Hi Ron,
Thanks for your reply.
Length and width are not an issue. The mounting base is much larger than
the base of these small light fixtures. However, the standoff from the
wingtip is an issue.
To your point, it is my plan to study the possibility of building up the
mounting base on the wingtip fairings when I look at completed aircraft at
Oshkosh. However if it will require an overly long standoff, which would
look bad and potentially interfere with the aerodynamics of the Hornier
wingtips, then I will opt to install the third tail light instead.
By the way, I will probably get the satisfaction of creating and executing
my own design in either case, because if I go with the tail light, I will
probably have to custom make a rudder fairing. Jeff Small was good enough
to share his techniques for doing fiberglass molds and layups, and is
answering any questions I have - "See, Learn, Do".
Regards,
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: rlendon@comcast.net [mailto:rlendon@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL
Dave,
What are the length and width of the base of the light you want to use?
What is the length and with of the light mounting base on the wing tip from
Zenith?
If the base of the wingtip from zenith is short in either direction you can
easily build up the areas with more fiberglass.
I do recall you saying you have little skills, well here is an opportunity
to learn by doing. Most all of this stuff is an improvisation keeping
structural integrity and safety foremost in your actions. The light
mounting is not a structural part other than it holds the light fixture and
deflects air.
Give it some thought about how you want it to look, draw it up if you can.
There is a lot of satisfaction in in creating and executing your own design
changes. Get with your EAA tech consoler and talk it out, I am sure they
will have some suggestions and may even show you how to do what you want. I
think the EAA motto is "See, Learn, Do". I think you can see what you want,
now learn how, then do it.
Feel free to ask more questions,
--
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 04:19:51PM +0200, Iberplanes IGL wrote:
> For me it is imposible to understand why many poeple get so upset when
> there is an accident.
I don't think people get upset about the accidents themselves (beyond what
anyone would do, that is); it's the discussions of possible causes and fixes
that seems to run on for a long time afterwards that people get upset about.
Those who feel such discussions are useful appear to have all joined the
ZBAG list at Yahoo! Groups; I suggest that such discussions be held over
there, so that folks on the Zenith and Zenith-601 lists who have gotten
tired of it all don't have to put up with them.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
As I recall, the reason for the split was principally due to
some of the 701ers finding some of the 601 traffic tough to take.=C2- I do
ubt that those feelings have
changed.=C2- I personally liked the way it
was before but I would classify the inconvenience associated with multiple
lists to be minor and if it helps to enrich the lives of our 701 brothers an
d
sisters, that=99s great.=C2- I don=99t feel good
about bothering Matt again with this.
=C2-
Cheers,
Bill
601xl
Do not archive
Gig said:
Then let's all vote and ask Matt to undo the split if that is the will of th
e
users.
I vote 1 list.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192839#192839
0 - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
I'm not really sure what Juan's intentions are but if he is just trying to
defend the design, his reaction and tone are completely counterproductive a
nd will do more harm than good to the cause.
There are plenty of good arguments in defense of the design but "..sell you
plane and move on to another hobby." or "..a competitor to the zenith line
is getting on here.." is not one of them.
Juan really need to revise the way he react to this topic, unless he just i
n it for the enjoyment of trolling.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http//www.geocities.com/bill_dom
--- On Tue, 7/15/08, Iberplanes IGL <iberplanes@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Iberplanes IGL <iberplanes@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008
Gig,
in this case you are right, but on a private mail Mirko told me they were h
is friends, and he could not understand why he was given "the welcome reply
", of couse- now his on the ZBAG list.
Regarding Rick response, you can read mine there too. For me it is imposibl
e to understand why many poeple get so upset when there is an accident.
Thanks for your email.
2008/7/15 Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>:
Alberto,
You shouldn't be surprised when a new person who says they have completed s
igns on to the list for the first time and and his question is about an acc
ident.
I'm not saying Mirko is one of them but there are people on the Internet th
at are trying to hurt competitors.
That said Mirko received 3 perfectly responsible and polite replies from Ri
ck, Jay and George. Not to mention Sabrina's post that proves that contrary
to popular belief that teenagers do, in fact, have a clue.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192842#192842
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
Engine: Jabiru 3300
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
I would vote against, with all due respect to the previous postings. I'm a CH701
Builder and the relative "quiet" since the split has been delightful. I don't
think we realize just how depressing it becomes as a builder to be subjected
to the sometimes irrational rantings of faceless, unknown people that may mean
well, but are unwilling or unable to control their emotions long enough for
the factual data to explain what has happened. Again, all due respect, but I do
not want ot be a part of that any more. I like it split. Thank you.
--- On Tue, 7/15/08, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists?
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, July 15, 2008, 8:53 AM
> Giacona" <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>
> Then let's all vote and ask Matt to undo the split if
> that is the will of the users.
>
> I vote 1 list.
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192839#192839
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
We didn't have the luxury of the private mail from Mirko. I looked at his profile
and saw that he had just joined the list and decided not to answer at all.
This list like every other on the Internet is usually the polite thing to lurk
for a while and/or read some of the former posts before you yourself post.
Since the ZBAG list as been created it has calmed down around here and I can understand
why Juan answered as he did. But for anyone to post as Mirko did in a
group and get a 75% "friendly" reply isn't bad for the Internet.
As for why people get upset. Jay answered as better than I could. Had Mirko spent
any time at all looking at old posts he would have known about the ZBAG list
and headed over there.
Iberplanes wrote:
> Gig,
>
> in this case you are right, but on a private mail Mirko told me they were his
friends, and he could not understand why he was given "the welcome reply", of
couse now his on the ZBAG list.
>
> Regarding Rick response, you can read mine there too. For me it is imposible
to understand why many poeple get so upset when there is an accident.
>
> Thanks for your email.
>
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192876#192876
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
Do not archive, Serial no. 701-Wah-Wah-Wah
I vote one list.
Randy, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 6:53 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists?
>
> Then let's all vote and ask Matt to undo the split if that is the will of
the users.
>
> I vote 1 list.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Alberto, I am sorry if I offended you. You get upset too easily. We are proud that
you have been reading the list for 10 years now. I wonder if it is the language
barrier that causes you to misinterpret the actual meaning of some of the
posts. For example, I speak Mandarin and try to follow a thread like this from
Taiwan, but I don't know if I would ever truly understand the thread, not being
a native speaker. Let me give you a specific example. Some people on
the list call me Pan Fei Fei, which, in Mandarin literally means chubby fat fat.
However, when used with a slightly different tone, it means Beautiful Flying
Butterfly. Don't always take what we say literally. Good luck with your
build.
As to your comment: "That?s called "free of spech" in America, Am I wrong? When
back in 1998 I was reading the list very interesting comparissons were made XL
vs RVs.... BTW, what were you doing at that year? enough said."
At that year, let me think... this is what I was doing...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192884#192884
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sabrina_way_back_then_125.jpg
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
I vote one list.
I think the splitting of the list was a misguided attempt to shut up
all the sophomoric attempts to fix the XL design. The hope was the
speculation would be limited to one list and actual builders could
avoid that one.
Now that we have a dedicated engineering speculation list perhaps we
builders can get back together to discuss rivets and paint.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
I vote one list as well.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912, Spitfire Mk VIII
Message 18
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| Subject: | Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
The Matronics subscription form is something only a computer programmer
could love (I'm a programmer). I think it is actually an IQ test to keep
dumb people off the lists but I'm still here. Go to the link below and
*carefully* follow the instructions. To see all the check-boxes for all the
lists you MUST "hover" the cursor over "Move Tool Up" or "Move Tool Dn" at
the top of the list of check-boxes. Since all the Zenith lists are at the
bottom of the list you won't see them unless you hover over "Up" (or you
have a very big monitor):
http://www.matronics.com/subscription/
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert N. Eli
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Was it such a good idea to split the lists?
I'm a CH701 guy and can't find the new split list for the 701's. I went to
matronics and there was no mention of a CH701 list separate from other
Zenith aircraft. Currently, I seem to just be receiving 601XL stuff.
What's up with this spit list stuff??
Bob Eli
N701K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Was it such a good idea to split the lists?
>
> All-
> I totally agree with you, Craig. Even prior to the split, the archives
> were never a way of getting information quickly. In addition, I never know
> if something got through or a reply wound up on another list.
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 10:12 PM
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Was it such a good idea to split the lists?
>
>
>>
>> Wait till you need to search the archives and have to check in three
>> places.
>> :-)
>>
>> -- Craig
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jonaburns
>> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2008 6:41 PM
>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Was it such a good idea to split the lists?
>>
>>
>> Since there are not a lot of posts this weekend, and I need something to
>> do
>> while waiting for primer to dry, I am going to see what you all think.
>>
>> Does it still seem like a good ides to split the zenith lists?
>>
>> It seems like there are only a few posts each day, and many are cross
>> posting to all the groups anyway. Since there is still good info in the
>> 701/801 list it actually takes much longer to check each list every day.
>> Even using the digest, there are 3 (or 4 if you get them all) email
>> covering
>> largely the same topics.
>>
>> Any comments?
>>
>>
>> Jon Burns
>> Little Elm, TX
>> 601XL - Working on canopy...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192558#192558
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Sabrina, you rock.
Sabrina wrote:
>
>
>
> At that year, let me think... this is what I was doing...
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192899#192899
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
Randy, seeing as you are a 701 guy would you discuss this in that list and see
if they will go along?
Tell them we will promise to try to keep the BS about the sky falling to a minimum.
n4546v(at)mindspring.com wrote:
> Do not archive, Serial no. 701-Wah-Wah-Wah
>
> I vote one list.
>
> Randy, Las Vegas
>
>
>
> ---
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192902#192902
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
I vote for 1 list also. That said which list? If we can decide which list to
post to we can simply make one last post to the other saying something like
"I'm outta this list please tune into xxx list". The people that didn't switch
will soon figure out it is dead. And won't it be fun to flame the ones that
didn't listen.... Muhahahaha
Jeff
Do not archive
**************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live music
scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!
(http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112)
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
I've been lurking a while, and for me I can see many reasons why people
get upset to hear of a 601 crash. One thing we all share the same passi
on, we are loosing our fellow 601 drivers. Another thing, some don't wa
nt to feel like they are investing allot of time and money in building a
plane that would be more prone than other aircraft to having a failure.
Everyone has different ways of dealing with things, and that is what m
akes us different from everyone else.
I also feel sometimes people reply to others before getting all the fact
s, or even thinking about it for a while before posting. Crashes are se
nsitive area's, everyone please think about your responses before postin
g them. Were not here to make enemies, at least I am not.
As for me, I'm sorry to hear of the loss, and my heart goes out to the f
amily and friends. Enough said, I'm going back to the garage.
Derek Lewis
-- "Iberplanes IGL" <iberplanes@gmail.com> wrote:
Gig,
in this case you are right, but on a private mail Mirko told me they wer
e his friends, and he could not understand why he was given "the welcome
reply", of couse now his on the ZBAG list.
Regarding Rick response, you can read mine there too. For me it is impos
ible to understand why many poeple get so upset when there is an acciden
t.
Thanks for your email.
2008/7/15 Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>:
Alberto,
You shouldn't be surprised when a new person who says they have complete
d signs on to the list for the first time and and his question is about
an accident.
I'm not saying Mirko is one of them but there are people on the Internet
that are trying to hurt competitors.
That said Mirko received 3 perfectly responsible and polite replies from
Rick, Jay and George. Not to mention Sabrina's post that proves that co
ntrary to popular belief that teenagers do, in fact, have a clue.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192842#192842
--
Alberto Martin
www.iberplanes.es
Igualada - Barcelona - Spain
----------------------------------------------
Zodiac 601 XL Builder
Serial: 6-7011
Tail Kit: Finished
Wings: Not Started
Fuselage: Ordered
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
____________________________________________________________
Beauty Advice Just Got a Makeover
Read reviews about the beauty products you have always wanted to try
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/JKFkuJO6pwAP0mpVDcYde79Mj
Tov99ZoBABRal2grisqwa4Jp5RZoO/
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
1. I recommend you read the Zenair News letter found at
http://www.zenithair.com/pdf-doc/zenair-news-165.pdf if you have not
done so.
2. Why not fly your first flight. The XL flys like .. an airplane. If
you can fly a Cessna or Piper you can surly fly your XL..
Also, it is really neat flying the maiden flight on an airplane you
built! Just keep it in its flight envelope and be careful of speed
build-up descending and a high sink rate landing.
Having a lot of fun with my XL. Just about to down it for my third
Annual Condition Inspection. (during flight test I had it up to 195 mph
IAS in slow steps in clam air. I never have experienced any control
shaking or "buzz" indicating any possible onset of flutter. I have also
been in "pretty good" turbulence during which my headset would not
remain on my head, but would be shaken off if I did not hold it on, with
no ill effects to the airplane. Kept the airplane at or below Va. You do
get some shudder in a stall though.
Tony Graziano
601XL/Jab 3300; Ser 6-5342/N493TG with wing lockers and all options
except "hinged" ailerons and wheel pants (have 6 inch wheels and brakes
- bigger foot print and brakes for landing on my rough, short, over and
through the power lines and trees, farm strip).
398 enjoyable hours.
---------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008
From: mirko (mirko@bytecorp.com.au)
Date: Sun Jul 13 - 2:02 AM
Hi there, I'm also a concern zodiac builder in Australia. My Zodiac 601
XL is built,
it took lots of money/time and ready for its first flight. But now
hearing
all these new developments is making me a little nerves. The
flatter(possible
ailerons not balanced) theory seems to stick with me. I agree, static
tests
alone is not the whole answer. Has there been any more news regarding
the Wing
Structure.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Mirko,
Have confidence in the design. On the ailerons, the design is nothing new. Just
check the B-29 Stratobomber, it has the same design for its AIleron trim tabs.
Yep, the plane flew for many years under much harder stresses than what you
wil put yours through. The key is, Did you build yours per the specs and
did you build it right? If so get in and start flying the BeJesus out of it,
thats what you built it for, and have confidence in what you did. Fly it like
a Zenith 601 and not an Extra 300L, and you will be fine.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: "T. Graziano" <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Jul 15, 2008 2:50 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008
>
>
>1. I recommend you read the Zenair News letter found at http://www.zenithair.com/pdf-doc/zenair-news-165.pdf if you have not done so.
>
>2. Why not fly your first flight. The XL flys like .. an airplane. If you can
fly a Cessna or Piper you can surly fly your XL..
>Also, it is really neat flying the maiden flight on an airplane you built! Just
keep it in its flight envelope and be careful of speed build-up descending
and a high sink rate landing.
>
>Having a lot of fun with my XL. Just about to down it for my third Annual Condition
Inspection. (during flight test I had it up to 195 mph IAS in slow steps
in clam air. I never have experienced any control shaking or "buzz" indicating
any possible onset of flutter. I have also been in "pretty good" turbulence
during which my headset would not remain on my head, but would be shaken off
if I did not hold it on, with no ill effects to the airplane. Kept the airplane
at or below Va. You do get some shudder in a stall though.
>
>Tony Graziano
>
>601XL/Jab 3300; Ser 6-5342/N493TG with wing lockers and all options except "hinged"
ailerons and wheel pants (have 6 inch wheels and brakes - bigger foot print
and brakes for landing on my rough, short, over and through the power lines
and trees, farm strip).
>398 enjoyable hours.
>
>---------------------------------------------------
> Subject: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008
> From: mirko (mirko@bytecorp.com.au)
> Date: Sun Jul 13 - 2:02 AM
>
>Hi there, I'm also a concern zodiac builder in Australia. My Zodiac 601 XL is
built,
>it took lots of money/time and ready for its first flight. But now hearing
>all these new developments is making me a little nerves. The flatter(possible
>ailerons not balanced) theory seems to stick with me. I agree, static tests
>alone is not the whole answer. Has there been any more news regarding the Wing
>Structure.
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
I think 701/801 guys and gals, would just rather read about 701s/801s. I also get
the feeling that there is a subtle difference in the personalities of 601 vs
701/801 guys. Not saying anything negative just that its there. The airframe
cross over stuff was hard to separate at times, because people did not spell
out what airframe its for. The 601 wing discussion belongs in the 601 section,
if anyplace. Though the Yahoo group for this is a good way to limit negative
exposer. But now you have 601 guys who, are still posting 601 stuff in the Zenith
list.
The list is fine the way it is, though I still feel that a Main Zenith with 601/701/801/640.....
subgroups may help the searches, depends again, on the software.
Post in the correct place and all fill be fine.
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192937#192937
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008 |
Sabrina, I second the sentiment that "you rock". Indeed!
As for the "pan fei fei" part, that's so cool. You can be the beautiful flying
butterfly until the inevitable middle-age spread hits you (like the majority of
the rest of us old farts), and it only takes a slight tonal change to maintain
accuracy.
Looking forward to meeting you at OSH.
Rick Lindstrom
N42KP
P.S. My own Zodiac made it back to Northern California just fine after its 16.9
hour round-trip to KAWO and back. Miracle of miracles, the wings didn't suddenly
fold up and hit anybody on the head!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com>
>Sent: Jul 15, 2008 9:45 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601XL Wing Failure 4/7/2008
>
>
>Alberto, I am sorry if I offended you. You get upset too easily. We are proud
that you have been reading the list for 10 years now. I wonder if it is the language
barrier that causes you to misinterpret the actual meaning of some of the
posts. For example, I speak Mandarin and try to follow a thread like this from
Taiwan, but I don't know if I would ever truly understand the thread, not
being a native speaker. Let me give you a specific example. Some people on
the list call me Pan Fei Fei, which, in Mandarin literally means chubby fat fat.
However, when used with a slightly different tone, it means Beautiful Flying
Butterfly. Don't always take what we say literally. Good luck with your
build.
>
>As to your comment: "That?s called "free of spech" in America, Am I wrong? When
back in 1998 I was reading the list very interesting comparissons were made
XL vs RVs.... BTW, what were you doing at that year? enough said."
>
>At that year, let me think... this is what I was doing...
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192884#192884
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/sabrina_way_back_then_125.jpg
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days |
Question: How long does it take a non-flying, married guy with a full time job
and kids to build an airplane, use it to learn to fly, then get his sport pilot
license?
I did it guys. At 1:30PM Central time today, July 15th, I officially became a
certificated sport pilot. Now I can go somewhere an take someone along! Life
is good.
Scott Laughlin
Omaha, Nebraska
601XL/Corvair
77 hours.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192947#192947
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days |
Congratulations Scott.
Now run along and get your REAL pilot's license. Just kidding, but do you plane
to get your Private? I mean you didn't put those lights in the wing to light
the hanger did you?
cookwithgas wrote:
> Question: How long does it take a non-flying, married guy with a full time job
and kids to build an airplane, use it to learn to fly, then get his sport pilot
license?
>
> I did it guys. At 1:30PM Central time today, July 15th, I officially became
a certificated sport pilot. Now I can go somewhere an take someone along! Life
is good.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> Omaha, Nebraska
> 601XL/Corvair
> 77 hours.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192948#192948
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
The problem is there aren't 2 lists there are 4.
The original Zenith
The 601
The 701/801
The 640 (Which I might add has a total of 20 posts on 9 topics.)
If we are going to keep the lists split we need to NOT use the original list for
aircraft specific questions and we sure as heck don't need to post the same
question to both.
I use the web interface but it would drive me nuts to see the same message sent
from each group in my e-mail box.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192953#192953
Message 30
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| Subject: | Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days |
Congratulations, Scott! (That explains the shift in the rotation of the
Earth I felt about that time! <g>)
Bravo Zulu!
Best,
Cory
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cookwithgas
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:01 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days
Question: How long does it take a non-flying, married guy with a full time
job and kids to build an airplane, use it to learn to fly, then get his
sport pilot license?
I did it guys. At 1:30PM Central time today, July 15th, I officially became
a certificated sport pilot. Now I can go somewhere an take someone along!
Life is good.
Scott Laughlin
Omaha, Nebraska
601XL/Corvair
77 hours.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192947#192947
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days |
A great big CONGRATULATIONS, Scott.? Way to go!!
Jay in Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: cookwithgas <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 4:01 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days
Question: How long does it take a non-flying, married guy with a full time job
and kids to build an airplane, use it to learn to fly, then get his sport pilot
license?
I did it guys. At 1:30PM Central time today, July 15th, I officially became a
certificated sport pilot. Now I can go somewhere an take someone along! Life
is good.
Scott Laughlin
Omaha, Nebraska
601XL/Corvair
77 hours.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192947#192947
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days |
Cookinwith Gas,
COngrads! go fly and give many rides!
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: cookwithgas <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Sent: Jul 15, 2008 5:01 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days
>
>
>Question: How long does it take a non-flying, married guy with a full time job
and kids to build an airplane, use it to learn to fly, then get his sport pilot
license?
>
>I did it guys. At 1:30PM Central time today, July 15th, I officially became a
certificated sport pilot. Now I can go somewhere an take someone along! Life
is good.
>
>Scott Laughlin
>Omaha, Nebraska
>601XL/Corvair
>77 hours.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192947#192947
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Was it such a good idea to split the lists? |
I'll second the responsible posting idea, the RV guys seem to be able to do it,
so can we.
Kevin
do not archive
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192961#192961
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days |
Congratulations Scott .Enjoy flying your wonderful machine .I am still
flying my Sonerai that I built & had certified in 1977.
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL plans building
Cont. 0200
----- Original Message -----
From: "cookwithgas" <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 4:01 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days
>
> Question: How long does it take a non-flying, married guy with a full
> time job and kids to build an airplane, use it to learn to fly, then get
> his sport pilot license?
>
> I did it guys. At 1:30PM Central time today, July 15th, I officially
> became a certificated sport pilot. Now I can go somewhere an take someone
> along! Life is good.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> Omaha, Nebraska
> 601XL/Corvair
> 77 hours.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192947#192947
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On |
601XL
Dave
It is good to hear that you are going to Oshkosh. While you're there,
compare the mount of the GS-Air combos (Thank you Pete--From catalog
displays I'd say they are identical to the Kunzleman's) on the Jabiru
models with the mount location on the 601XL. I think that you'll conclude
(as I did) that, if it's legal on the Jabiru, then it will be legal on the
601XL. That said, it never hurts (except for weight) to err on the side of
visibility, so your plan to go with the 3-location light system is sound.
Terry
At 09:31 AM 7/15/2008 -0500, you wrote:
><davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
>Hi Ron,
>
>Thanks for your reply.
>
>Length and width are not an issue. The mounting base is much larger than
>the base of these small light fixtures. However, the standoff from the
>wingtip is an issue.
>
>To your point, it is my plan to study the possibility of building up the
>mounting base on the wingtip fairings when I look at completed aircraft at
>Oshkosh. However if it will require an overly long standoff, which would
>look bad and potentially interfere with the aerodynamics of the Hornier
>wingtips, then I will opt to install the third tail light instead.
>
>By the way, I will probably get the satisfaction of creating and executing
>my own design in either case, because if I go with the tail light, I will
>probably have to custom make a rudder fairing. Jeff Small was good enough
>to share his techniques for doing fiberglass molds and layups, and is
>answering any questions I have - "See, Learn, Do".
>
>Regards,
>Dave
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rlendon@comcast.net [mailto:rlendon@comcast.net]
>Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:39 PM
>To: Dave VanLanen
>Subject: Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL
>
>Dave,
>
>What are the length and width of the base of the light you want to use?
>
>What is the length and with of the light mounting base on the wing tip from
>Zenith?
>
>If the base of the wingtip from zenith is short in either direction you can
>easily build up the areas with more fiberglass.
>
>I do recall you saying you have little skills, well here is an opportunity
>to learn by doing. Most all of this stuff is an improvisation keeping
>structural integrity and safety foremost in your actions. The light
>mounting is not a structural part other than it holds the light fixture and
>deflects air.
>
>Give it some thought about how you want it to look, draw it up if you can.
>There is a lot of satisfaction in in creating and executing your own design
>changes. Get with your EAA tech consoler and talk it out, I am sure they
>will have some suggestions and may even show you how to do what you want. I
>think the EAA motto is "See, Learn, Do". I think you can see what you want,
>now learn how, then do it.
>
>Feel free to ask more questions,
>
>
>--
>Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
>Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
>http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
>
>
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days |
Scott-
You'll beat me in the long run, and I've had my SEL for years, the kid's
out of the house and I'm just starting on my panel!
Bill
do not archive
>
>> <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Question: How long does it take a non-flying, married guy with a full
>> time job and kids to build an airplane, use it to learn to fly, then get
>> his sport pilot license?
>>
>> I did it guys. At 1:30PM Central time today, July 15th, I officially
>> became a certificated sport pilot. Now I can go somewhere an take
>> someone along! Life is good.
>>
>> Scott Laughlin
>> Omaha, Nebraska
>> 601XL/Corvair
>> 77 hours.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192947#192947
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days |
Fantastic Scott, congratulations! :D
--------
Glenn Andressen
601XL- just started.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192971#192971
Message 38
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| Subject: | RE: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On |
601XL
The Kuntzleman strobes are most certain NOT the same as the GS Air ones. I
have the GS Air product and have seen the Kuntzleman units in person. Take a
look at the pictures:
www.kestrobes.com/
www.gs-air.com
IMHO the Kuntzleman strobes are superior. For one thing the strobe tube
sticks out beyond the LEDs so it can actually be seen from the front or
rear. For another there is more metal in them.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Phillips
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights
On 601XL
Dave
It is good to hear that you are going to Oshkosh. While you're there,
compare the mount of the GS-Air combos (Thank you Pete--From catalog
displays I'd say they are identical to the Kunzleman's) on the Jabiru
models with the mount location on the 601XL. I think that you'll conclude
(as I did) that, if it's legal on the Jabiru, then it will be legal on the
601XL. That said, it never hurts (except for weight) to err on the side of
visibility, so your plan to go with the 3-location light system is sound.
Terry
At 09:31 AM 7/15/2008 -0500, you wrote:
><davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
>Hi Ron,
>
>Thanks for your reply.
>
>Length and width are not an issue. The mounting base is much larger than
>the base of these small light fixtures. However, the standoff from the
>wingtip is an issue.
>
>To your point, it is my plan to study the possibility of building up the
>mounting base on the wingtip fairings when I look at completed aircraft at
>Oshkosh. However if it will require an overly long standoff, which would
>look bad and potentially interfere with the aerodynamics of the Hornier
>wingtips, then I will opt to install the third tail light instead.
>
>By the way, I will probably get the satisfaction of creating and executing
>my own design in either case, because if I go with the tail light, I will
>probably have to custom make a rudder fairing. Jeff Small was good enough
>to share his techniques for doing fiberglass molds and layups, and is
>answering any questions I have - "See, Learn, Do".
>
>Regards,
>Dave
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: rlendon@comcast.net [mailto:rlendon@comcast.net]
>Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:39 PM
>To: Dave VanLanen
>Subject: Re: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights On 601XL
>
>Dave,
>
>What are the length and width of the base of the light you want to use?
>
>What is the length and with of the light mounting base on the wing tip from
>Zenith?
>
>If the base of the wingtip from zenith is short in either direction you can
>easily build up the areas with more fiberglass.
>
>I do recall you saying you have little skills, well here is an opportunity
>to learn by doing. Most all of this stuff is an improvisation keeping
>structural integrity and safety foremost in your actions. The light
>mounting is not a structural part other than it holds the light fixture and
>deflects air.
>
>Give it some thought about how you want it to look, draw it up if you can.
>There is a lot of satisfaction in in creating and executing your own design
>changes. Get with your EAA tech consoler and talk it out, I am sure they
>will have some suggestions and may even show you how to do what you want.
I
>think the EAA motto is "See, Learn, Do". I think you can see what you
want,
>now learn how, then do it.
>
>Feel free to ask more questions,
>
>
>--
>Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
>Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder
>http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
>
>
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days |
Scott,
Welcome to the club!
Dan Dempsey
(do not archive)
cookwithgas wrote:
> Question: How long does it take a non-flying, married guy with a full time job
and kids to build an airplane, use it to learn to fly, then get his sport pilot
license?
>
> I did it guys. At 1:30PM Central time today, July 15th, I officially became
a certificated sport pilot. Now I can go somewhere an take someone along! Life
is good.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> Omaha, Nebraska
> 601XL/Corvair
> 77 hours.
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192979#192979
Message 40
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| Subject: | RE: Kuntzleman Streamline Combo Nav/Strobe Lights |
On 601XL
You are correct, Craig.
I had seen an photo somewhere of what I thought was a Kuntzleman combo and
it looked the same as the GS-Air. But the Kuntzleman's that are on their
website now are definitely different. I also prefer the Kuntzlman strobe
position. Oh well, it's too late now. My GS-Air's will have to be OK.
Terry
do not archive
At 05:03 PM 7/15/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>The Kuntzleman strobes are most certain NOT the same as the GS Air ones. I
>have the GS Air product and have seen the Kuntzleman units in person. Take a
>look at the pictures:
>
>www.kestrobes.com/
>
>www.gs-air.com
>
>IMHO the Kuntzleman strobes are superior. For one thing the strobe tube
>sticks out beyond the LEDs so it can actually be seen from the front or
>rear. For another there is more metal in them.
>
>-- Craig
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 41
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| Subject: | Over filling during flight? |
Hi Guys,
July 14 Monday was perfect. I walked Toby our cat, then packed the
flight bag and went to the airport. After a lengthy preflight, the plane
was pulled from the hangar and I did a secondary walk around. All good,
the tower cleared my request for runway 5. I lifted off in a soft
downwind, but still short enough for traffic. I set course for Clinton
and climbed to 3000 ft. On the formerly flooded Mississippi, one could
see the river traffic moving again and a few recreational boaters.
Clinton airport was also visible 8-miles out. I passed over the airport
and entered downwind for 32. Good pattern work, but I flared a foot high
and just bounced the touchdown. I taxied in and parked to check
wheel-pants for damage. None was found, so after visiting with the FBO,
I taxied to 32 and took off, departed west. The header tank was less
than full so the left wing pump was turned on. Engine temps were good
for an 85-degrees ambient. EGTs 1370, oil 220, coolant 198, CHT 210 and
oil pressure was 48 psi. On turning south for the return, I called Quad
Cities approach, collected traffic and guidance and nearly forgot to
track the refill. The header was completely full when I turned off the
wing pump and centered the selector valve. I felt a chill down my spine,
because I didn't want to overfill. I worried that fumes from spilled
fuel could trace across the 601s non-laminar wing to the exhaust pipe's
back draft and turn the plane into a roman candle. I couldn't smell
any fuel within the cabin. On landing, I taxied back and shut down.
Inside the header, fuel was 3-inches from the cap and the overflow tube
was dry. This is the tank's max fill limit. Very relieved, I put the 601
back in the hangar and drove home with this tidbit chewing on my mind.
Nice flight, but the wrong kind of adrenaline rush!
The question would be, is it possible to use the EIS to read the full
point of a common rheostat type tank sensor to set an alarm point?
Or, should one consider a blinking light that constantly runs when
either of the wing pumps is running.
Or, does anyone have a good "reminder" that the pump is running or the
tank is nearly full?
Thanks again,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days |
That's a great accomplishment Scott, congratulations. I have been following your
project since 2004 and I have learned a great deal from your web site.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
--- On Tue, 7/15/08, cookwithgas <cookwithgas@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: cookwithgas <cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days
<cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Question: How long does it take a non-flying, married guy with a full time job
and kids to build an airplane, use it to learn to fly, then get his sport pilot
license?
I did it guys. At 1:30PM Central time today, July 15th, I officially became a
certificated sport pilot. Now I can go somewhere an take someone along! Life
is good.
Scott Laughlin
Omaha, Nebraska
601XL/Corvair
77 hours.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=192947#192947
Message 43
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| Subject: | Over filling during flight? |
Pillar Point Avionics offers an optical in-tank sensor that you could use.
Normally this is used to sense when a tank is emptying and the sensor
uncovered. But there is no reason why you couldn't use it to sense when it
becomes covered.
http://www.ppavionics.com/UFSTUFSAN.htm
Or you could just set a kitchen timer.
-- Craig
PS - I thought the advantage of a cat over a dog was that it didn't need
walking?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 7:23 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Over filling during flight?
Hi Guys,
July 14 Monday was perfect. I walked Toby our cat, then packed the
flight bag and went to the airport. After a lengthy preflight, the plane
was pulled from the hangar and I did a secondary walk around. All good,
the tower cleared my request for runway 5. I lifted off in a soft
downwind, but still short enough for traffic. I set course for Clinton
and climbed to 3000 ft. On the formerly flooded Mississippi, one could
see the river traffic moving again and a few recreational boaters.
Clinton airport was also visible 8-miles out. I passed over the airport
and entered downwind for 32. Good pattern work, but I flared a foot high
and just bounced the touchdown. I taxied in and parked to check
wheel-pants for damage. None was found, so after visiting with the FBO,
I taxied to 32 and took off, departed west. The header tank was less
than full so the left wing pump was turned on. Engine temps were good
for an 85-degrees ambient. EGTs 1370, oil 220, coolant 198, CHT 210 and
oil pressure was 48 psi. On turning south for the return, I called Quad
Cities approach, collected traffic and guidance and nearly forgot to
track the refill. The header was completely full when I turned off the
wing pump and centered the selector valve. I felt a chill down my spine,
because I didn't want to overfill. I worried that fumes from spilled
fuel could trace across the 601s non-laminar wing to the exhaust pipe's
back draft and turn the plane into a roman candle. I couldn't smell
any fuel within the cabin. On landing, I taxied back and shut down.
Inside the header, fuel was 3-inches from the cap and the overflow tube
was dry. This is the tank's max fill limit. Very relieved, I put the 601
back in the hangar and drove home with this tidbit chewing on my mind.
Nice flight, but the wrong kind of adrenaline rush!
The question would be, is it possible to use the EIS to read the full
point of a common rheostat type tank sensor to set an alarm point?
Or, should one consider a blinking light that constantly runs when
either of the wing pumps is running.
Or, does anyone have a good "reminder" that the pump is running or the
tank is nearly full?
Thanks again,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Answer: Five Years, Six Months and 16 days |
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 02:01:01PM -0700, cookwithgas wrote:
> I did it guys. At 1:30PM Central time today, July 15th, I officially
> became a certificated sport pilot. Now I can go somewhere an take someone
> along! Life is good.
Congratulations! Now comes the fun part: you can go flying and not have to
worry about whether you're advancing your education toward the ticket.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)
Message 45
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|
So, you already know the bottom line to this note.
Now please bear with me while I vent a little - and share a lesson.
Eons ago, when I started building, I obsessed about getting a true straight
edge (check archives, around late XXth century).
I eventually settled on (1) accepting that the edge of a sheet 4x8 or 4x12
is straight and (2) an 8' melamine shelf as a "ruler".
I also (3) assumed that an aluminum sheet, as delivered by the mill/dealer,
is rectangular.
Weeks ago I cut the (outboard wing) skins from 4x12 sheets, using the
assumptions above.
I have drilled the (HD) outboard nose skin and the top skin. All nice and
clecoed.
Today, when I positioned the bottom skin in place, I noticed something was
off. About 5 mm off.
As if the rear z was offset to one side by 5 mm. Pardon y French, but @#%!
So, I disassembled the whole thing, and, to verify if the top and bottom
skins were (are) square, I placed them one of top of the other.
Well, they disagree. By about 5 mm.
I either made a mistake when cutting one of them or assumption (3) above
isn't true.
Of course, it's now impossible to verify which one is true.
(In a few days I might admit it was my mistake, but for now I have to blame
somebody/thing else.)
So there goes a hundred bucks (or so, we'll see when I buy another sheet)
out the window and, more important, umpteen hours (technical term for
several evenings) polishing the darn thing.
Does anybody know where I can get a precision, real large, square?
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans (as in "plans to finish someday")
One step for man, two steps backwards.
Message 46
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Hey Carlos,
One way to see it your corner is square is to do the 3-4-5 triangle measure
ment on the corner. That should get you a square corner to start with and g
o from there.
(3'side -- 4'side -- 5'diagonal) or any multiples of this,
such as 300mm--400mm--500mm, or double the distances 600mm--800mm--1000mm
Using these numbers should get you back to a square corner.
Good luck,
Keith
ch701 -- scratch
N 38.9947
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100
*************************************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Carlos Sa
Sent: Tue 7/15/2008 8:46 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: do not assume
So, you already know the bottom line to this note.
Now please bear with me while I vent a little - and share a lesson.
Eons ago, when I started building, I obsessed about getting a true straight
edge (check archives, around late XXth century).
I eventually settled on (1) accepting that the edge of a sheet 4x8 or 4x12
is straight and (2) an 8' melamine shelf as a "ruler".
I also (3) assumed that an aluminum sheet, as delivered by the mill/dealer,
is rectangular.
Weeks ago I cut the (outboard wing) skins from 4x12 sheets, using the
assumptions above.
I have drilled the (HD) outboard nose skin and the top skin. All nice and
clecoed.
Today, when I positioned the bottom skin in place, I noticed something was
off. About 5 mm off.
As if the rear z was offset to one side by 5 mm. Pardon y French, but @#%!
So, I disassembled the whole thing, and, to verify if the top and bottom
skins were (are) square, I placed them one of top of the other.
Well, they disagree. By about 5 mm.
I either made a mistake when cutting one of them or assumption (3) above
isn't true.
Of course, it's now impossible to verify which one is true.
(In a few days I might admit it was my mistake, but for now I have to blame
somebody/thing else.)
So there goes a hundred bucks (or so, we'll see when I buy another sheet)
out the window and, more important, umpteen hours (technical term for
several evenings) polishing the darn thing.
Does anybody know where I can get a precision, real large, square?
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans (as in "plans to finish someday")
One step for man, two steps backwards.
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