Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:58 AM - Hinge lubrication (Darryl Legg)
2. 02:08 AM - Re: Hinge lubrication (Craig Payne)
3. 06:19 AM - Re: Hinge lubrication (Juan Vega)
4. 06:27 AM - Re: XL canopy open (Gig Giacona)
5. 09:20 AM - Ping: Dave Nixon (Gig Giacona)
6. 09:41 AM - Fuels (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
7. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport (Gary Gower)
8. 10:25 AM - CH 601 XL plans for sale (jnmoliver@juno.com)
9. 12:20 PM - Re: Fuels (Gig Giacona)
10. 01:01 PM - Re: Re: Fuels (Juan Vega)
11. 01:27 PM - Re: Fuels (Gig Giacona)
12. 01:36 PM - Re: Over filling during flight? (Klaus Truemper)
13. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: Fuels (Al Hays)
14. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: Over filling during flight? (raymondj)
15. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: Fuels (Juan Vega)
16. 04:18 PM - Re: Fuels (ronlee)
17. 07:02 PM - Re: Re: Fuels (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Hinge lubrication |
Hi all,
Any tips for flap and elevator hinge lubrication?I will be keeping my finished
XL at a dust prone airstrip and don't like the idea of using oil or grease as
a lubricant on these exposed parts. If dust settled on these parts it would act
as sand paper. Does anyone think that these hinges need lubricating at all?
Thanks
Darryl.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193552#193552
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| Subject: | Hinge lubrication |
Second hand, people on the list have recommended LPS NO. 2 (General Purpose)
- Aircraft Spruce p/n 09-26100. Search the archives for their comments.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Legg
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:55 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Hinge lubrication
Hi all,
Any tips for flap and elevator hinge lubrication?I will be keeping my
finished XL at a dust prone airstrip and don't like the idea of using oil or
grease as a lubricant on these exposed parts. If dust settled on these parts
it would act as sand paper. Does anyone think that these hinges need
lubricating at all?
Thanks
Darryl.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193552#193552
Message 3
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| Subject: | Hinge lubrication |
LPS 2 and # would not advise as they have product in them that likes to collect
dust, and cake. CorrotionX penetrates and does not leave film and niehter does
LPS 1.
JUan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Craig Payne <craig@craigandjean.com>
>Sent: Jul 18, 2008 5:05 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Hinge lubrication
>
>
>Second hand, people on the list have recommended LPS NO. 2 (General Purpose)
>- Aircraft Spruce p/n 09-26100. Search the archives for their comments.
>
>-- Craig
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darryl Legg
>Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:55 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Hinge lubrication
>
>
>Hi all,
>Any tips for flap and elevator hinge lubrication?I will be keeping my
>finished XL at a dust prone airstrip and don't like the idea of using oil or
>grease as a lubricant on these exposed parts. If dust settled on these parts
>it would act as sand paper. Does anyone think that these hinges need
>lubricating at all?
>Thanks
>Darryl.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193552#193552
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: XL canopy open |
I got to see Jay plane when he visited KELD. To say the latching system is different
is an understatement. I liked it and it would have several fewer failure
modes. I could see the inside of the mechanism but I did like the outcome.
As far as retro fitting the system, I'd really like to see plans available for
it.
A.F.Rupp(at)att.net wrote:
> A while back, I believe it was Jay Maynard, posted some pictures of the new canopy
for 601's and that had what looked to be a very good latching mechanism
with the lock handle being on the seat back between the two seats and torque tubes
out to the sides. It also appeared to be a pull down latch. Be interesting
to see it when it comes out.
> It looks like a good retrofit. Maybe Jay could elaborate.
> Al Rupp
> 601XL 6-5765 done less engine
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193578#193578
Message 5
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| Subject: | Ping: Dave Nixon |
I was looking back on some posts from last year and noticed that you were planning
at the time to use push rods for aileron control.
Did you do that and how is it working out?
Any specs and pics would be appriciated
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193630#193630
Message 6
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Since the Blog is tuned in to Fueling i have a question. (or two )
has anyone had problems using auto fuel with 10% Ethanol. Florida has decried that
all fuel in the state WILL have 10% Ethanol by 2009. it is impossible to purchase
fuel now that does not have Ethanol. i was using Amoco White ( now BP
) to prevent the orange stains but now even it has Ethanol.
the engine manual says it is permissible but i am concerned about corrosion in
the aluminum tanks, deterioration of rubber hoses and internal rubber & plastics
in fuel valves and pumps.
While we are on the subject of fuel has any one found a way to stop spraying it
out the fuel tank vents when making a sharp turn with near full tanks. on a sod
runway it makes a large brown circle ( Grass Kill ) when performing a 180 on
the grass.
thanks
Bobby
601 XL
N131BP
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport |
After years of experience with-the use red plastic containers,- we dont
have gasoline at our aerodrome.- and airports here dont handle car gasol
ine, only 100LL. -I am very happy using-several 10 liter (about 3 gal)
red containers.--
They are not heavy to fill the 701 wing tanks,- when I carry two at a -
time I am perfectly balanced. Instead of- one 20 liter (5 gal)- in one
hand.- The bigger- the cntainer, the more dificult to move around.
-
I have-3 cardboard boxes with 2 containers each that I put as needed in t
he pick up bed.- This way they dont roll around.-- I normally-bring
from 20 to 40 liters- Is the amount of gasoline-we normally use every
flying saturday.
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico
701 912S- 202 hrs this last saturday-
--- On Thu, 7/17/08, cookwithgas <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
From: cookwithgas <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Strategies for car gas at the airport
<cookwithgas@hotmail.com>
Craig:
I was at the gas station a while back and saw a guy with a large, red, flat
tank laying in the back of his SUV. It had wheels and he was using it for
his
boat.
http://www.foreandaftmarine.com/MO-06792.htm
I'm sure a clever airplane-builder could figure out a way to rig up a pump
to get the fuel up into the wing tank.
My Corvair loves 100LL so I never did go this route but it was my plan at o
ne
time.
Scott Laughlin
601XL/Corvair, PIC
Omaha, NE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193324#193324
============0A=0A=0A
Message 8
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| Subject: | CH 601 XL plans for sale |
I have a set of 601XL plans for sale. I purchased them last year but current job
situation is forcing the sale. If you are interested you can contact me at
jnmoliver@juno.com.
____________________________________________________________
Save hundreds on an Unsecured Loan - Click here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m3iTVhOHLVkdOX0f8hbuBbwFCydP2p0en9Y7uwXRvt8deFk/
Message 9
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Bobby,
You didn't mention which engine you are using. But as point out the engine isn't
the only place Ethanol can cause a problem. It probably isn't the place it could
cause the biggest problem.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193674#193674
Message 10
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I Ethanol mixes with water, why could you not pour Water into fuel with Ethanol
and leach the alcohol out of the fuel? It goes with the thought that the way
to check for Ethanol is to add water to fuel in a marked fuel beaker and check
after time if the level of water increased, indicating Ethonal in Fuel.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jul 18, 2008 3:17 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuels
>
>
>Bobby,
>
>You didn't mention which engine you are using. But as point out the engine isn't
the only place Ethanol can cause a problem. It probably isn't the place it
could cause the biggest problem.
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193674#193674
>
>
Message 11
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And what octane fuel do you have when you are finished with that science experiment?
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> I Ethanol mixes with water, why could you not pour Water into fuel with Ethanol
and leach the alcohol out of the fuel? It goes with the thought that the
way to check for Ethanol is to add water to fuel in a marked fuel beaker and
check after time if the level of water increased, indicating Ethonal in Fuel.
>
> Juan
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193683#193683
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Over filling during flight? |
Hi Raymond,
You ask:
How have you integrated fuel management into your emergency
restart checklist?
The checklist depends on the engine and the tank system.
In case of complete engine failure:
1. Trim plane for best glide speed. Unless there an is unusual situation,
the propeller of the Rotax 912, 912S, or 914 will stop
due to the high compression ratio
of the engine and the fact that the propeller is geared. For direct
drive engines, the propeller likely will be windmilling.
2. Pick out a landing site. Fly toward the landing site at optimal glide
speed.
3. If there is time for a restart atttempt:
3.1 (Here comes a controversial part) If this is a Rotax engine,
turn off the avionics since otherwise
the radios may be blown by surge voltages during the starting. (This nasty
aspect of the Rotax engine is not exhibited by direct-drive engines
that would be windmilling. In that case, the generator continues charging
and the starter is not needed in the restart attempt, a definite plus.
On the other hand,
a windmilling propeller has more drag than a stopped propeller, a definite
minus as far as the glide ratio is concerned. )
To prevent starting of the Rotax engine with avionics turned on, we have
it set up that the starter can be activated only if the avionics are off
(another controversial part).
3.2 In the case of a direct
drive engine with windmilling propeller, check the oil pressure. If it is
zero, the engine is cooked and it's best to focus on everything
else. (The Rotax engine does not provide that
clue since it will be stopped and will have zero oil pressure regardless
of the condition of the engine.)
3.3 Turn on the boost pump.
3.4 601s with centertank and wing tanks:
If fuel level in the main tank is low, activate and hold the transfer
switches (here is a disadvantage that they are spring loaded and must be
held.
On the other hand, if the switches are on/off, then forgetting later
that they have
been turned on may overfill the center tank and create an extremely
dangerous situation during an emergency landing.)
601s with two leading edge tanks: Switch tanks.
3.4 Open throttle halfway.
3.5 Crank engine.
4. If engine does not restart and there is time left:
turn off fuel supply to engine, turn on avionics again
if turned off before, and make emergency call on 121.5.
5. When over the emergency landing site, begin circling.
When about 1000 ft AGL, go for the landing. If this is an HDS, dive for
the landing area
and do not try to fly an approach pattern, since likely the attempt will end
short of the landing area (The message for HDS pilots to remember is
"Dive for the landing"). For HD and XL, the glide ratio is better and
one must
make sure not to come in too high. But if this is actually an airport, then
nevertheless dive for the runway and dissipate any remaining altitute by
forward slip.)
Here is one more thought. We take off from a familiar airport so many times
that we become quite sure that this will always be successful. Next time
you take
off and begin the climb, you may ask yourself repeatedly, as you
gain altitude, the question "If the engine quits right now,
where should I land?" It may be that you will have
think about this. Well, doing it now is be better that when the real thing
happens.
Happy flying,
Klaus
*
*
*
*
Message 13
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Juan,
While you might be able to do that, I'm pretty sure you would wind up
an unacceptably low octane in the remaining fuel without the ethanol.
I've been using STA-BIL gasoline stabilizer for gas engined home and
farm equipment and it seems to be effective. Now I see Marine
Formula STA-BIL ethanol treatment being advertised and recommended
for all engines. I would probably be using that if I was flying with
autogas which might have ethanol in it. Neither of my projects is
going to be flying very soon but I intend to have them capable of
using regular pump autogas. One of my biggest worries is corrosion
in the thin aluminum gas tanks.
Al
N701GH and N5892H rexerved
On Jul 18, 2008, at 3:58 PM, Juan Vega wrote:
> <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
>
> I Ethanol mixes with water, why could you not pour Water into fuel
> with Ethanol and leach the alcohol out of the fuel? It goes with
> the thought that the way to check for Ethanol is to add water to
> fuel in a marked fuel beaker and check after time if the level of
> water increased, indicating Ethonal in Fuel.
>
> Juan
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Over filling during flight? |
Klaus,
Thanks for the detailed reply. You bring up several things about a
geared engine I had not given any thought to.
I was curious where you put the pumping fuel to the header in the list.
I assume you hold the switches while you are cranking the engine, or perhaps
I should say I think I would. It makes sense to me now.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Klaus Truemper" <klaus@utdallas.edu>
<klaus@utdallas.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 3:33 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Over filling during flight?
>
> Hi Raymond,
>
> You ask:
> How have you integrated fuel management into your emergency
> restart checklist?
>
> The checklist depends on the engine and the tank system.
>
> In case of complete engine failure:
>
> 1. Trim plane for best glide speed. Unless there an is unusual situation,
> the propeller of the Rotax 912, 912S, or 914 will stop
> due to the high compression ratio
> of the engine and the fact that the propeller is geared. For direct
> drive engines, the propeller likely will be windmilling.
>
> 2. Pick out a landing site. Fly toward the landing site at optimal glide
> speed.
>
> 3. If there is time for a restart atttempt:
> 3.1 (Here comes a controversial part) If this is a Rotax engine,
> turn off the avionics since otherwise
> the radios may be blown by surge voltages during the starting. (This nasty
> aspect of the Rotax engine is not exhibited by direct-drive engines
> that would be windmilling. In that case, the generator continues charging
> and the starter is not needed in the restart attempt, a definite plus. On
> the other hand,
> a windmilling propeller has more drag than a stopped propeller, a definite
> minus as far as the glide ratio is concerned. )
> To prevent starting of the Rotax engine with avionics turned on, we have
> it set up that the starter can be activated only if the avionics are off
> (another controversial part).
>
> 3.2 In the case of a direct
> drive engine with windmilling propeller, check the oil pressure. If it is
> zero, the engine is cooked and it's best to focus on everything
> else. (The Rotax engine does not provide that
> clue since it will be stopped and will have zero oil pressure regardless
> of the condition of the engine.)
> 3.3 Turn on the boost pump.
> 3.4 601s with centertank and wing tanks:
> If fuel level in the main tank is low, activate and hold the transfer
> switches (here is a disadvantage that they are spring loaded and must be
> held.
> On the other hand, if the switches are on/off, then forgetting later that
> they have
> been turned on may overfill the center tank and create an extremely
> dangerous situation during an emergency landing.)
> 601s with two leading edge tanks: Switch tanks.
> 3.4 Open throttle halfway.
> 3.5 Crank engine.
>
> 4. If engine does not restart and there is time left:
> turn off fuel supply to engine, turn on avionics again
> if turned off before, and make emergency call on 121.5.
>
> 5. When over the emergency landing site, begin circling.
> When about 1000 ft AGL, go for the landing. If this is an HDS, dive for
> the landing area
> and do not try to fly an approach pattern, since likely the attempt will
> end
> short of the landing area (The message for HDS pilots to remember is
> "Dive for the landing"). For HD and XL, the glide ratio is better and one
> must
> make sure not to come in too high. But if this is actually an airport,
> then
> nevertheless dive for the runway and dissipate any remaining altitute by
> forward slip.)
>
> Here is one more thought. We take off from a familiar airport so many
> times
> that we become quite sure that this will always be successful. Next time
> you take
> off and begin the climb, you may ask yourself repeatedly, as you
> gain altitude, the question "If the engine quits right now,
> where should I land?" It may be that you will have
> think about this. Well, doing it now is be better that when the real thing
> happens.
>
> Happy flying,
>
> Klaus
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
> 270.5.1/1560 - Release Date: 7/18/2008 6:47 AM
>
>
>
Message 15
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and does octane get impacted by leaching ethanol out, and if you buy 89 and the
plane can run on 87 what is the impact, and is it worth bothering to take the
ethanol out if the engine can take ethanol in the first place?
its an interesting question that opens a pandora's box
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jul 18, 2008 4:25 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuels
>
>
>And what octane fuel do you have when you are finished with that science experiment?
>
>
>amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
>> I Ethanol mixes with water, why could you not pour Water into fuel with Ethanol
and leach the alcohol out of the fuel? It goes with the thought that the
way to check for Ethanol is to add water to fuel in a marked fuel beaker and
check after time if the level of water increased, indicating Ethonal in Fuel.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> --
>
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193683#193683
>
>
Message 16
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Don't forget you will lose ten percent of your fuel. That ups the price by $0.40
cents or so.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193711#193711
Message 17
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What will happen if the service station has water in it (most do) and the
fuel has ethanol in it, how much water will the 10% ethanol absorb? Will this
amount of water and ethanol cause a problem with engine operation?
Jerry of Ga
In a message dated 7/18/2008 4:02:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
amyvega2005@earthlink.net writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
I Ethanol mixes with water, why could you not pour Water into fuel with
Ethanol and leach the alcohol out of the fuel? It goes with the thought that
the way to check for Ethanol is to add water to fuel in a marked fuel beaker
and check after time if the level of water increased, indicating Ethonal in
Fuel.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jul 18, 2008 3:17 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuels
>
>
>Bobby,
>
>You didn't mention which engine you are using. But as point out the engine
isn't the only place Ethanol can cause a problem. It probably isn't the place
it could cause the biggest problem.
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193674#193674
>
>
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