Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:48 AM - Steam guages (roger lambert)
2. 08:53 AM - Re: Steam guages (Craig Payne)
3. 09:37 AM - Re: Steam guages (Gig Giacona)
4. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Steam guages (lhusky@aol.com)
5. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: Steam guages (Craig Payne)
6. 11:34 AM - Re: Steam guages (Gig Giacona)
7. 11:46 AM - Re: Steam guages (annken100)
8. 11:48 AM - Chris Heintz letter (Jon Croke)
9. 03:12 PM - Re: Chris Heintz letter (chris Sinfield)
10. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: Steam guages (n801bh@netzero.com)
11. 04:39 PM - 601Xl builder in GA,FL? (william Clapp)
12. 05:42 PM - Re: 601Xl builder in GA,FL? (Juan Vega)
13. 06:20 PM - Check out this article in tomorrow's Minneapolis Star-Tribune (Jay Maynard)
14. 06:51 PM - Re: Re: Steam guages (MaxNr@aol.com)
15. 07:23 PM - Instruments for VFR flight. (Paul Mulwitz)
16. 10:35 PM - Re: Check out this article in tomorrow's Minneapolis Star-Tribun (TxDave)
Message 1
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Let's all remember the following:
1. AMD uses the Continental 0-200 which does not have a vacuum pump,
therefore no vacuum guages.
2. The vast majority of you are flying daytime VFR aircraft only. The panel
page on your GPS(Garmin, Lowrance) has an excellent six pack of electronic
guages with an independent battery backup that lasts more than long enough
to get you to an airport. There's really no need for the weight, expense
and systems complexity of backup guages.
3. Fly to be happy, not to show that yours is bigger or more expensive than
somebody elses.
Message 2
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Unfortunately the GPSMap can't give you airspeed. Groundspeed yes, but not
airspeed.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of roger lambert
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 7:44 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Steam guages
Let's all remember the following:
1. AMD uses the Continental 0-200 which does not have a vacuum pump,
therefore no vacuum guages.
2. The vast majority of you are flying daytime VFR aircraft only. The panel
page on your GPS(Garmin, Lowrance) has an excellent six pack of electronic
guages with an independent battery backup that lasts more than long enough
to get you to an airport. There's really no need for the weight, expense
and systems complexity of backup guages.
3. Fly to be happy, not to show that yours is bigger or more expensive than
somebody elses.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Steam guages |
I may have just had a hard-ass for a instructor and I know it isn't in the PTS,
but my CFI blocked the entire panel with a sectional and had me land more than
once during my PP training.
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> Unfortunately the GPSMap cant give you airspeed. Groundspeed yes, but not airspeed.
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194897#194897
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Steam guages |
Mine did to. He used a red rag to cover the guages. He made me take
off, get to pattern altitude and land without using instruments. It
was amazing how close I was where I was supposed to be when we removed
the rag.
Larry Husky
Madras,OR
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Steam guages |
Two questions:
- how windy was it?
- given the choice wouldn't you like to know your airspeed?
-- Craig
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 10:34 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Steam guages
I may have just had a hard-ass for a instructor and I know it isn't in the PTS,
but my CFI blocked the entire panel with a sectional and had me land more than
once during my PP training.
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> Unfortunately the GPSMap cant give you airspeed. Groundspeed yes, but not airspeed.
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194897#194897
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Steam guages |
This was a long time ago but I do remember there being some crosswind. (There usually
was at the single runway airport where I trained in the spring.) It's not
like there was a hurricane or anything near though.
Sure I would. But I think most of us have all flown aircraft that had only one
AS indicator. Sure the chances of one in a Dynon going Tango Uniform are higher
than than a TSO'd indicator but probably not that much higher.
For the record I've had two AS indicators stop telling me how fast I was going
in flight. Both were in 172s. The first was just plan stuck after a two hour flight
and the other was a local when something plugged up the pitot tube line.
In neither case was there anything bordering on an emergency. I did use a some
extra runway because I kept my speed higher than I would normally (though I
really wasn't trying to).
I also didn't have a GPS telling me ground speed which I think in the case of a
Dynon-out landing I wouldn't use the GS anyway.
All that said, I do plan that at some point in the future I will get my IFR rating
in my plane. At that point I will add back-up Alt and AS, probably steam powered
and have planed my panel to leave room for it.
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> Two questions:
>
> - how windy was it?
> - given the choice wouldn't you like to know your airspeed?
>
> -- Craig
>
> Do not archive
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194924#194924
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Steam guages |
My instructor made me land without the benefit of instruments also. At the time
I thought he was crazy, but in retrospect I'm glad he did. It made me aware
of my surroundings and what the airplane was doing rather than just relying on
my instruments as the only source of information. I had one occasion where
my pitot-static system was getting progressively obstructed and my instruments
became unreliable and useless. The landing on that flight was a non-event.
Another example is when I fly my friend's Cub. Looking at the instruments while
flying the Cub is almost an afterthought. I'm too busy enjoying the seat-of-your-pants
flying. This is why I have no steam guage backup in my all-glass panel.
If both my EFIS's fail I can still manage a safe landing.
Of course, we are talking severe clear calm VFR conditions here, IFR or MVFR is
a whole different animal. You kinda need your instruments then.
Ken Pavlou
601XL / Corvair
--------
601 XL / Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194926#194926
Message 8
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| Subject: | Chris Heintz letter |
FYI,
There is a NEW letter from Chris Heintz regarding aileron flutter posted
at www.zenair.org (open to all readers)
I would like to thank Chris Heintz for this letter, as I think it could
be of importance to all CH design builders and CH aircraft owners.
Thanks
Jon
editor
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Chris Heintz letter |
Thanks John
Its information like this that helps to prevent problems later down the track.
Thanks also for putting it in the open area free for all to read and not just for
the people who have subscribed.
Its good to see Zenith ( Nick) respond openly to builders issues for everyone to
learn.
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194955#194955
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Steam guages |
I second that.. my instructor had this plastic top off a dog food can t
hat fit the airspeed indicator perfectly. I bet I flew that 152 for 10 h
ours or more with no ASI feedback. Best learning trick I have even seen
for flying a plane. When ya get too slow and the controls are not crisp
in response then you need to pay attention closely. I got to the point w
here I would fly the plane, and guess the airspeed by feel. I would the
n remove the lid covering the ASI. After about 5 hours of that I usually
could get within 5 mph of the actual speed, more often then that closer
. The moral of this story is " if it feels sloppy, lazy and unresponsive
then give it power, lower the nose or both. This is the main reason I d
etest LRI's / AOA gauges. If you have to stare at that gauge to land the
friggin plane you ought not be flyin.... My humble opinion...
do not archive.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
I may have just had a hard-ass for a instructor and I know it isn't in t
he PTS, but my CFI blocked the entire panel with a sectional and had me
land more than once during my PP training.
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> Unfortunately the GPSMap can=99t give you airspeed. Groundspeed
yes, but not airspeed.
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=194897#194897
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Message 11
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| Subject: | 601Xl builder in GA,FL? |
We are looking for a 601xl builder in the GA or Fl area for some informatio
n.- Please email me personally at iflykrs@yahoo.com.-- Thank you.
Bill Clapp - KR2S builder and pilot
Valdosta GA
www.billclapp.com=0A=0A=0A
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 601Xl builder in GA,FL? |
juan vega, Tampa Florida
-----Original Message-----
>From: william Clapp <iflykrs@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jul 25, 2008 7:36 PM
>To: Zenith <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: 601Xl builder in GA,FL?
>
>We are looking for a 601xl builder in the GA or Fl area for some information.
Please email me personally at iflykrs@yahoo.com. Thank you.
>
>Bill Clapp - KR2S builder and pilot
>Valdosta GA
>www.billclapp.com
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Check out this article in tomorrow's Minneapolis Star-Tribune |
Our own Patrick Hoyt is featured, and we get to see his Zodiac in progress
in the associated video online. The article is at
http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/25898184.html .
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Re: Steam guages |
About that lack of a vacuum pump; I was crawling around in the Zenair
Newsletter Archives and found a neat idea. A builder attached some scat tubing
to the
back side of the baffling of the high pressure area in the engine
compartment. It was attached to a venturi that discharged out the bottom in the
low
pressure area. He reported that it would spin up a gyro on the ground at high RPM.
I'm doubtful about that, but it is out of the way and it did work. And was
cheap.
As far as the need for back up instrumentation, I think of the scenario of
being hundreds of miles from home and the one and only all-in-one display goes
dark on start up. That's when they usually go, rarely in flight. There are
three choices. Go home and get your trailer. Tie it down, pull the unit and fix
it. Or last, fly it home with no instrumentation. I find no requirement for any
gauges in an Experimental for day/VFR. BUT we are not totally brain dead are
we?
Hopefully there is a whiskey compass or hand held GPS on board. Most people
can avoid a stall and do coordinated turns by the seat of their pants. Practice
this. You can stick the tanks before T. O. That's even permitted in
commercial operations.
You know the normal cruise throttle position from experience. A fixed pitch
prop will not go too far astray. The one thing you do need is to be able to
monitor oil pressure and temp. At least its my rock bottom minimum. Those gauges
are small, cheap and light. Good weather, extra caution and judgment and we
get home.
Bob Dingley
XL/Lyc Do not archive
**************
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Instruments for VFR flight. |
I have been following all the posts about backup instruments. Since
I did not see any comments about VFR vs. IFR instrument requirements
I thought I would comment on just that.
I believe that VFR, for the most part, doesn't call for any
instruments at all. Any pilot who can't fly without a working
airspeed indicator should make an urgent appointment with an
instructor to learn this life saving skill. A whiskey compass (which
doesn't require much backup unless someone gets really thirsty) and
an altimeter to keep from busting restricted airspace is plenty for
most VFR flights. I've never heard of an altimeter failing, but I
suppose this is possible. On the other hand, I have experienced an
ASI failure and I know this is relatively common. All you need to do
is plug the pitot tube.
Virtually everyone has a GPS these days, and all the major ones
designed for aviation include a backup instrument panel. This gives
a good altitude and direction reference and an excellent means of navigation.
IFR flight is a whole different kettle of fish. Every plane I have
flown that is set up for IFR includes a mix of vacuum and electric
gyro instruments so loss of either power source doesn't kill all the
gyros. You must have at least one gyro to stay alive in IFR. It
doesn't really matter which one. Those pilots who are IFR qualified
already know all about instrument failures and backup needs, so I
don't feel a need to discuss that here.
I have discovered that a modern experimental EFIS provides many of
the instruments required by the FAA for airworthiness
certification. It does this at a lower cost than it can be done with
steam gauges. That justifies purchase of one of these devices. If
it fails, then you need to get it fixed eventually. You should not
need a backup instrument system to help you get your plane to the repair point.
For VFR pilots, my advice is to save your money targeted for backup
instruments and use it to get the flight instruction needed to fly
with no instruments at all. Once you learn how to do this it will
stay with you forever.
Paul
XL getting close
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Check out this article in tomorrow's Minneapolis Star-Tribun |
Nice video, Jay. Thanks for posting the link.
Dave Clay
Temple, TX
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195019#195019
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