---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/30/08: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:20 AM - Re: Ch 650 is now on the Zenith web site (Iberplanes IGL) 2. 05:35 AM - Re: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart (Larry Hursh) 3. 06:18 AM - Re: New Panel Design (Gig Giacona) 4. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart (Peter Chapman) 5. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart (George Race) 6. 06:42 AM - Re: Re: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart (Al Hays) 7. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: New Panel Design (craig@craigandjean.com) 8. 08:13 AM - Re: New Panel Design (Alex MacKay) 9. 08:52 AM - 650 Plans (Sabrina) 10. 08:52 AM - Re: New Panel Design (Gig Giacona) 11. 08:55 AM - Re: 650 Plans (Gig Giacona) 12. 09:00 AM - Re: 650 Plans (Sabrina) 13. 09:04 AM - aeroflash strobes (john H) 14. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Historical uses of the (Juan Vega) 15. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Historical uses of the (Juan Vega) 16. 10:01 AM - Re: Re: Historical uses of the (Juan Vega) 17. 10:18 AM - Re: Historical uses of the (paul baker) 18. 10:22 AM - Re: Re: Historical uses of the (Jeyoung65@AOL.COM) 19. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Historical uses of the (Charles Chappell) 20. 11:22 AM - Fw: Re: Historical uses of the (Flydog1966@aol.com) 21. 11:48 AM - Re: Rubber wing root moulding (Gary Gower) 22. 12:09 PM - Re: Historical uses of the "F" Wordper Amelia Earhart (MaxNr@aol.com) 23. 12:21 PM - Re: Re: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart (Larry Hursh) 24. 01:05 PM - Re: Rubber wing root moulding (jaybannist@cs.com) 25. 01:19 PM - Re: Rubber wing root moulding (LHusky@aol.com) 26. 02:36 PM - Re: Rubber wing root moulding (Terry Phillips) 27. 02:55 PM - Re: Rubber wing root moulding (Gig Giacona) 28. 03:22 PM - taildragger (Jim Belcher) 29. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: Rubber wing root moulding (Gary Gower) 30. 05:45 PM - XL flap drive for sale (Craig Spainhower) 31. 05:54 PM - Re: taildragger (Leo Gates) 32. 07:24 PM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 07/29/08 (Rich) 33. 09:04 PM - XL plans (Sabrina) 34. 11:12 PM - Re: XL plans (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:31 AM PST US From: "Iberplanes IGL" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ch 650 is now on the Zenith web site Hi list, I have my fuselage order to be delivered in september, including canopy, gear, etc. Do you really know if I would be able to change my XL for a 650? I have the wings and tail kit done. Thanks in advance, 2008/7/30 > > Looks good to me also, I wonder if my 601xl wing kit can be used with a >> new 650 fuselage kit. >> > > Some Zenith staff member (Caleb?) at Oshkosh said the wings were > compatible. Double-check this with them directly after Oshkosh. > > -- Craig > > -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:27 AM PST US From: Larry Hursh Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart Subject: ---- Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart From: ---- Juan Vega (amyvega2005@earthlink.net) Date: ---- Tue Jul 29 - 5:36 PM Acceptable use of the "F" word Acceptable use of the "F" word The F-word: We all know that it isn't polite to use the F-word. However, there are ten times in history where the "F" word has been acceptable for use...Mr Vega,In my humble opinion, I think your commen ts about the "F" word are extremely inappropriate and highly offensive. I am of the opinion there is NO PLACE for any comment like this on this forum . In my eyes, you have lowered yourself to one of the lowest forms of huma n life. I just pray Sabrina did read it but I'm sure she did. Sorry Sabri na. Male testosterone sometimes overloads a man's thoughts and we become v ery uncouth. Tailwinds Always, Larry H =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New Panel Design From: "Gig Giacona" Craig, John, I am laughing so hard right now. Dan works for Dynon. > > Dan Lykowski > Dynon Avionics -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195726#195726 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:21 AM PST US From: Peter Chapman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart At 08:30 30-07-08, you wrote: >In my humble opinion, I think your comments about the "F" word are >extremely inappropriate and highly offensive. I am of the opinion >there is NO PLACE for any comment like this on this forum. In my eyes, you This non-aviation thread could spiral out of control, but: I personally found the attitude towards Sabrina in that post - even if truly well meaning - more offensive and embarrassing than the original post by Mr Vega, which was either an error of judgement or perhaps a posting to the wrong email address... Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:56 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart I whole heartedly agree with Larry's comments! George N73EX _____ Subject: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart From: Juan Vega ( amyvega2005@earthlink.net) Date: Tue Jul 29 - 5:36 PM Mr Vega, In my humble opinion, I think your comments about the "F" word are extremely inappropriate and highly offensive. I am of the opinion there is NO PLACE for any comment like this on this forum. In my eyes, you have lowered yourself to one of the lowest forms of human life. I just pray Sabrina did read it but I'm sure she did. Sorry Sabrina. Male testosterone sometimes overloads a man's thoughts and we become very uncouth. Tailwinds Always, Larry H ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:38 AM PST US From: Al Hays Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart Juan, I have to tell you that I, and probably many others, share the opinion expressed by Mr. Hursh. I refrained from making comment when first seeing your post, wondering if the rest of us would just ignore it, not wishing to start any flaming session. Now that the potential can of worms has been opened, I'll invite your attention to the following quote from the List Administrator's List Policies and Frequently Asked Questions: "3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! " Al Hays CH701 & 601XL, N701GH and N5892H reserved On Jul 30, 2008, at 8:30 AM, Larry Hursh wrote: > > Subject: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > From: Juan Vega (amyvega2005@earthlink.net) > Date: Tue Jul 29 - 5:36 PM > Acceptable use of the "F" word > Acceptable use of the "F" word The F-word: We all know that it > isn't polite to > use the F-word. However, there are ten times in history where the > "F" word has > been acceptable for use... > Mr Vega, > In my humble opinion, I think your comments about the "F" word are > extremely inappropriate and highly offensive. I am of the opinion > there is NO PLACE for any comment like this on this forum. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:15 AM PST US From: craig@craigandjean.com Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: New Panel Design > Dan works for Dynon. And you are thinking I don't know that? :-) -- Craig Do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:36 AM PST US From: Alex MacKay Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Panel Design Hi Dan Your panel design is very interesting! I noticed that you have two rectangular instruments in the middle; were these meant to be the comm radio and the transponder? I thought that the new Dynon unit could be purchased with these included. Will it be possible to operate the new unit with the D120 in something like the current D120/D100 combination? i.e. sharing screens? Best regards Alex MacKay 601HDS, Jab 3300, starting engine installation On Mon, 28 Jul 2008, lykowdk wrote: > > So, I spent some time laying out a new panel for my 601.. [Shocked] > Any thoughts? :D > > Dan Lykowski > Dynon Avionics > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195499#195499 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscf0512_c_170.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:36 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 650 Plans From: "Sabrina" Don't worry guys... I am enjoying Air Venture too much to let anything or anyone bother me... The biggest thing on my mind right now are the changes to our airframes. Does anyone have access to a set of 650 plans or could anyone convince Zenith to overnight a set from Mexico to Oshkosh for the dinner Thursday? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195746#195746 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:52 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New Panel Design From: "Gig Giacona" Give me a break. It was early and my sarcasm detector hadn't booted up yet. [quote="craig(at)craigandjean.com"] > Dan works for Dynon. > > > And you are thinking I don't know that? :-) > > -- Craig > > Do not archive -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195747#195747 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 650 Plans From: "Gig Giacona" If they didn't bring them to OSH then I'd bet they don't have them ready yet. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195748#195748 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:01 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 650 Plans From: "Sabrina" I would be happy with their work in progress set... even a digital version... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195749#195749 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:17 AM PST US From: john H Subject: Zenith-List: aeroflash strobes Hi Guys After 310 hours my port side aeroflash strobe stopped working. After checki ng the archives I found that maybe the capacitor has died. Anyway of checki ng this? I have not had time to look at it yet as it stopped working last n ight so it may be something else gone amiss. If it is the capacitor does an yone have a source or part number I can use? Thanks John _________________________________________________________________ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM _WL_Refresh_messenger_video_072008 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:50 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the You guys are too funny. That was a joke that a client of mine sent me. If you don't like it hit the delete button. You need to get over your selves. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: George Race >Sent: Jul 30, 2008 9:36 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > >I whole heartedly agree with Larry's comments! > George > N73EX > _____ > > >Subject: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > >From: Juan Vega ( >%20> amyvega2005@earthlink.net) >Date: Tue Jul 29 - 5:36 PM > >Mr Vega, >In my humble opinion, I think your comments about the "F" word are extremely > > inappropriate and highly offensive. I am of the opinion there is NO PLACE > > for any comment like this on this forum. In my eyes, you have lowered >yourself > to one of the lowest forms of human life. I just pray Sabrina did read it >but > I'm sure she did. Sorry Sabrina. Male testosterone sometimes overloads a > > man's thoughts and we become very uncouth. > Tailwinds Always, Larry H > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:51 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the You guys are too funny. That was a joke that a client of mine sent me. If you don't like it hit the delete button. You need to get over your selves. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: George Race >Sent: Jul 30, 2008 9:36 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > >I whole heartedly agree with Larry's comments! > George > N73EX > _____ > > >Subject: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > >From: Juan Vega ( >%20> amyvega2005@earthlink.net) >Date: Tue Jul 29 - 5:36 PM > >Mr Vega, >In my humble opinion, I think your comments about the "F" word are extremely > > inappropriate and highly offensive. I am of the opinion there is NO PLACE > > for any comment like this on this forum. In my eyes, you have lowered >yourself > to one of the lowest forms of human life. I just pray Sabrina did read it >but > I'm sure she did. Sorry Sabrina. Male testosterone sometimes overloads a > > man's thoughts and we become very uncouth. > Tailwinds Always, Larry H > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:41 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the To all that found the joke distastefull, get over yourselves. And Give Sabrina a little more credit than she deserves. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Larry Hursh >Sent: Jul 30, 2008 8:30 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > > >Subject: > >Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > >From: > >Juan Vega (amyvega2005@earthlink.net) > >Date: > >Tue Jul 29 - 5:36 PM >Acceptable use of the "F" word >Acceptable use of the "F" word The F-word: We all know that it isn't polite to >use the F-word. However, there are ten times in history where the "F" word has >been acceptable for use...Mr Vega,In my humble opinion, I think your comments about the "F" word are extremely inappropriate and highly offensive. I am of the opinion there is NO PLACE for any comment like this on this forum. In my eyes, you have lowered yourself to one of the lowest forms of human life. I just pray Sabrina did read it but I'm sure she did. Sorry Sabrina. Male testosterone sometimes overloads a man's thoughts and we become very uncouth. Tailwinds Always, Larry H > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:59 AM PST US From: "paul baker" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Historical uses of the juan...shame on you, a grown man that insists on using profanity on an open forum. I did have some respect for you,but now I don't. You may think if funny,but not everybody else . Keep these opinions to your self or to someone who appreciates them,I do not!!!!!!!!! This forum is about building and flying 601s.Grow up and show some common sense.. paul baker 601hd 60 years of flying and still going ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:20 AM PST US From: Jeyoung65@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the Juan, this is the wrong place for passing on BAD posts that are totalley unrelated to aviation. Also your remark about Sabrina is NEVER acceptable. Jerry of Ga In a message dated 7/30/2008 1:02:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, amyvega2005@earthlink.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega To all that found the joke distastefull, get over yourselves. And Give Sabrina a little more credit than she deserves. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Larry Hursh >Sent: Jul 30, 2008 8:30 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > > >Subject: > >Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > >From: > >Juan Vega (amyvega2005@earthlink.net) > >Date: > >Tue Jul 29 - 5:36 PM >Acceptable use of the "F" word >Acceptable use of the "F" word The F-word: We all know that it isn't polite to >use the F-word. However, there are ten times in history where the "F" word has >been acceptable for use...Mr Vega,In my humble opinion, I think your comments about the "F" word are extremely inappropriate and highly offensive. I am of the opinion there is NO PLACE for any comment like this on this forum. In my eyes, you have lowered yourself to one of the lowest forms of human life. I just pray Sabrina did read it but I'm sure she did. Sorry Sabrina. Male testosterone sometimes overloads a man's thoughts and we become very uncouth. Tailwinds Always, Larry H > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:35 AM PST US From: "Charles Chappell" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the Locker room humor and the language that goes with it have a place for some. That would be somewhere other than here. It does not belong on this list and the language is specifically banned from this list by its owner. If you think the rules don't apply to you please take that up with the list administrator. It would seem most of us choose to comply with the rules of the list and of common consideration for whoever might read a message from this list. (Like a grandchild setting on my knee while I read email about airplanes.) Thank you, Chuck Chappell -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan Vega Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 9:50 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the You guys are too funny. That was a joke that a client of mine sent me. If you don't like it hit the delete button. You need to get over your selves. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: George Race >Sent: Jul 30, 2008 9:36 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > >I whole heartedly agree with Larry's comments! > George > N73EX > _____ > > >Subject: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > >From: Juan Vega ( >%20> amyvega2005@earthlink.net) >Date: Tue Jul 29 - 5:36 PM > >Mr Vega, >In my humble opinion, I think your comments about the "F" word are extremely > > inappropriate and highly offensive. I am of the opinion there is NO PLACE > > for any comment like this on this forum. In my eyes, you have lowered >yourself > to one of the lowest forms of human life. I just pray Sabrina did read it >but > I'm sure she did. Sorry Sabrina. Male testosterone sometimes overloads a > > man's thoughts and we become very uncouth. > Tailwinds Always, Larry H > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:03 AM PST US From: Flydog1966@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the Must agree that it probably does not belong here. But,,, I did find it funny,and forwarded it to a few friends,Including my mother! And DO NOT ARCHIVE people ! ____________________________________ From: Jeyoung65@AOL.COM Sent: 7/30/2008 1:23:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time Subj: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the Juan, this is the wrong place for passing on BAD posts that are totalley unrelated to aviation. Also your remark about Sabrina is NEVER acceptable. Jerry of Ga In a message dated 7/30/2008 1:02:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, amyvega2005@earthlink.net writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Juan Vega To all that found the joke distastefull, get over yourselves. And Give Sabrina a little more credit than she deserves. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Larry Hursh >Sent: Jul 30, 2008 8:30 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > > >Subject: > >Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart > >From: > >Juan Vega (amyvega2005@earthlink.net) > >Date: > >Tue Jul 29 - 5:36 PM >Acceptable use of the "F" word >Acceptable use of the "F" word The F-word: We all know that it isn't polite to >use the F-word. However, there are ten times in history where the "F" word has >been acceptable for use...Mr Vega,In my humble opinion, I think your comments about the "F" word are extremely inappropriate and highly offensive. I am of the opinion there is NO PLACE for any comment like this on this forum. In my eyes, you have lowered yourself to one of the lowest forms of human life. I just pray Sabrina did read it but I'm sure she did. Sorry Sabrina. Male testosterone sometimes overloads a man's thoughts and we become very uncouth. Tailwinds Always, Larry H he es y --> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS nbsp; - List Contribution Web Site ; ======================== ____________________________________ Get fantasy football with free live scoring. _Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today_ (http://w ww.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) . (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:36 AM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rubber wing root moulding Do WHAT?-- Destroy your airframe?--- :-)- :-) - (just a Joke) - Saludos Gary Gower Do not archive. --- On Tue, 7/29/08, LHusky@aol.com wrote: From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rubber wing root moulding I came from New Mexico, where a guy was parting out his XL and then destroy ing the airframe.- This was a factory plane and the molding was glued on. - I plan on doing mine the same way.- - Larry Husky Madras, Oregon - In a message dated 7/29/2008 6:51:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ding@tbscc .com writes: You guys and gals who have completed your wing installation- --- Have y ou glued the rubber root moulding to the wing or just slipped it in place a nd installed the wing? --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - -- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- - --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Lynn --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - -- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- - --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Corry, PA----- 601XL / Co rvair f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Zenith-List .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy F ootball today. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:53 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Wordper Amelia Earhart I always read every thing you post Juan, but you got me that time. Now wash your computer out with solvent and go stand in the corner for a half hour. When you finish you will still be a valued member of this forum. I'm just thankful that no one downloaded my Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) back when I was a working stiff. Pilots and mule skinners. Bob Dingley (ret.) Do not archive ************** Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:58 PM PST US From: Larry Hursh Subject: Zenith-List: Re: RE: Historical uses of the "F" Word per Amelia Earhart - if truly well meaning - more offensive and embarrassing than the original post by Mr Vega, which was either an error of judgement or perhaps a posting to the wrong email address... Mr Chapman, - I DID make a mistake on my original post and I must correct it.- My inten tions was to say I hope Sabrina does NOT read this post but I know she will .- So if you think you would like to publicly flame me for a mis-posting, feel free to do so-- I can take the-heat.- Remember this though, I a m just a man too...and like Mr Vega, I DO make my fair share of mistakes... .. - And as for you Mr Juan Vega, - YOU need to get over YOURSELF.- There are more gentlemen out here that do NOT care for your ill sense of humor, and vulgar words.- I for one would only hope that if you feel this "URGE" again, you would be best to keep it to yourself or take it to some other forum.- As you can read from all th e reaction you are getting, it is NOT welcome nor wanted here.- If you in sist to persist, I WILL ask Mr Draille to read your posts and ask him to re ad the reactions you are getting from the rest of the group.- I'll let Mr Draille deal with you.- - I can only hope you come back to your-common senses and do the right thin g here.- - Once again-- Tailwinds Always, -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rubber wing root moulding From: jaybannist@cs.com The guy in New Mexico was a former member of our local EAA Chapter.? According to one who knows him well, he got spooked by the reports of XL "folding wings".? He apparently believes that the XL is too dangerous to fly. He decided to dismantle the airframe and sell it as parts.? My take is that this is a rumor-driven disaster. Jay in Dallas Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Gary Gower Sent: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 1:44 pm Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rubber wing root moulding Do WHAT??? Destroy your airframe???? :-)? :-) ? (just a Joke) ? Saludos Gary Gower Do not archive. --- On Tue, 7/29/08, LHusky@aol.com wrote: From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rubber wing root moulding I came from New Mexico, where a guy was parting out his XL and then destroying the airframe.? This was a factory plane and the molding was glued on.? I plan on doing mine the same way.? ? Larry Husky Madras, Oregon ? In a message dated 7/29/2008 6:51:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ding@tbscc.com writes: You guys and gals who have completed your wing installation? --? Have you glued the rubber root moulding to the wing or just slipped it in place and installed the wing? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Lynn ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Corry, PA????? 601XL / Corvair f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:46 PM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rubber wing root moulding I have to agree. I bought a lot of parts off of that BEAUTIFUL plane. I was very impressed with the quality of the plane and would have flown it anywhere. I still have not found any quality as good, including the new AMD plane I looked at when I was at Arlington. CWAZ did some might fine work and took pride in the little details. I am very happy to have the parts, but it hurt to cut up the airframe. Larry Husky Madras, Oregon In a message dated 7/30/2008 1:06:04 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, jaybannist@cs.com writes: The guy in New Mexico was a former member of our local EAA Chapter. According to one who knows him well, he got spooked by the reports of XL "folding wings". He apparently believes that the XL is too dangerous to fly. He decided to dismantle the airframe and sell it as parts. My take is that this is a rumor-driven disaster. Jay in Dallas Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Gary Gower Sent: Wed, 30 Jul 2008 1:44 pm Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rubber wing root moulding Do WHAT? Destroy your airframe? :-) :-) (just a Joke) Saludos Gary Gower Do not archive. --- On Tue, 7/29/08, _LHusky@aol.com_ (mailto:LHusky@aol.com) <_LHusky@aol.com_ (mailto:LHusky@aol.com) > wrote: From: _LHusky@aol.com_ (mailto:LHusky@aol.com) <_LHusky@aol.com_ (mailto:LHusky@aol.com) > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rubber wing root moulding I came from New Mexico, where a guy was parting out his XL and then destroying the airframe. This was a factory plane and the molding was glued on. I plan on doing mine the same way. Larry Husky Madras, Oregon In a message dated 7/29/2008 6:51:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, _ding@tbscc.com_ (mailto:ding@tbscc.com) writes: You guys and gals who have completed your wing installation -- Have you glued the rubber root moulding to the wing or just slipped it in place and installed the wing? Lynn Corry, PA 601XL / Corvair f="_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) ">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List_ (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) matronics.com/">_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/) ://_www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ">_http://www.matronics.com/contribution_ (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ____________________________________ Get fantasy football with free live scoring. _Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today_ (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) . ____________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at _http://www.cs.com_ (http://www.cs.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:46 PM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rubber wing root moulding Jay Actually, I think the whole story is a bit more complex than you suggest. I have been collecting data on flutter experiences as input for the engineer doing the independent engineering analysis for ZBAG. When I read of his experience, I asked Philip for whatever information he could give me. He responded with a very complete write up, which I am appending to this note. I will let the readers decide whether Philip was 'spooked by the reports of XL "folding wings."' I have not met Philip, but he seems like a pretty levelheaded pilot to me, and he has way more pilot experience than I do. I believe that Philip had serious concerns about the safety of his airplane and rather than sell an aircraft that he did not consider safe, he parted it out (which I'd bet lost him a bundle of money). If you're interested, you might search the archives for Klaus Truemper's post which speaks to the quality of CZAW's construction in Philips A/C. I'm attaching a sectional image showing Cooke Peak. Terry At 04:01 PM 7/30/2008 -0400, Jay in Dallas wrote: >The guy in New Mexico was a former member of our local EAA >Chapter. According to one who knows him well, he got spooked by the >reports of XL "folding wings". He apparently believes that the XL is too >dangerous to fly. He decided to dismantle the airframe and sell it as parts. > >My take is that this is a rumor-driven disaster. > >Jay in Dallas >Do not archive At 07:54 PM 7/8/2008 +0000, Philip Welsch wrote: >Terry: > >My experience with the XL involved what I would describe as a span-wise >shudder. It was like sitting on a diving board that someone else was >jumping on. I saw no control surface or wing vibration other than the >normal oil canning (I did not, however observe the flaps during the event). > >I was flying at 7,800' msl (aprox. 2,000' agl) at 105 mph ias. I was >upwind of and about one half=C2 mile from the west flank of Cookes Peak >(8,408' msl). It was about 0830 local, 40 degrees F, clear sky=C2 and there >was very little wind and absolutely no turbulence. I was alone in the >aircraft and light at about 1,000 lbs total weight (601 VV weighed 677 lbs >empty). > >Upon feeling the shudder I reduced throttle and initiated a climb (about=C2 >10 degrees). Airspeed bled off to about 80 mph quickly and just as quickly >the shudder was gone. 80 mph is probably about Va for a 601 XL at 1,000 >lbs total weight. > >The landing 15 minutes later was uneventful and there was no noticable >damage to control surfaces, flaps or rear attach bolts. The wings >displayed no vertical or fore and aft movement suggesting attachment >issues. No rivets appeared loose. > >601VV had wing lockers and some inboard=C2 skin to spar A5's had been >replaced due to suspected "smoking". The aircraft had about 370 hours >total time=C2 when the event occurred. I bought the aircraft with 47 hours >on the Hobbs. The builder was the owner of "Skyshops" and the airplane was >constructed as a "Light Sport" demonstrator at CZAW=C2 with a gross weight >of 1232 lbs. Contrary to what Heintz has suggested concerning lighter >weight=C2 European constructed 601 XL's this aircraft appeared to conform to >Heintz plans except for the composite landing gear. I received the plans >with the aircraft and the changes CZAW made were attached to the >appropriate Heintz drawing. This aircraft was licensed built by CZAW and I >have the invoice documenting the purchase by CZAW=C2 of =C2 the serial number >from Zenith Aircraft in Mexico Mo. > >I've flown about 2,100 hours during the last 20 years in=C2 eight models of=C2 >light certificated aircraft and gliders. Much of that time has been during >cross country flight in all kinds of VFR and MVFR weather -=C2 including >substantial turbulence. I've always considered that I might be killed in a >light aircraft but I figured that it would be due to some stupid pilot >trick. Prior to the XL I had never been concerned about the possibility of >structural failure killing me.=C2 > >I'm sure this is more that you bargained for, but you asked and I needed >to vent. > >I don't care what you do with the information. > >Best regards, >Philip Welsch=C2 =C2 Terry Phillips ZBAGer ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rubber wing root moulding From: "Gig Giacona" That ain't flutter. We have a name for it in aviation. It's called turbulence. Sounds like he hit some funky airmass off the mountain. Hardly a reason to tear apart an airplane. I'm with Jay, rumor-driven disaster Terry Phillips wrote: > Jay > > Actually, I think the whole story is a bit more complex than you suggest. I > have been collecting data on flutter experiences as input for the engineer > doing the independent engineering analysis for ZBAG. When I read of his > experience, I asked Philip for whatever information he could give me. He > responded with a very complete write up, which I am appending to this note. > I will let the readers decide whether Philip was 'spooked by the reports of > XL "folding wings."' I have not met Philip, but he seems like a pretty > levelheaded pilot to me, and he has way more pilot experience than I do. I > believe that Philip had serious concerns about the safety of his airplane > and rather than sell an aircraft that he did not consider safe, he parted > it out (which I'd bet lost him a bundle of money). If you're interested, > you might search the archives for Klaus Truemper's post which speaks to the > quality of CZAW's construction in Philips A/C. I'm attaching a sectional > image showing Cooke Peak. > > Terry > > > At 04:01 PM 7/30/2008 -0400, Jay in Dallas wrote: > > > The guy in New Mexico was a former member of our local EAA > > Chapter. According to one who knows him well, he got spooked by the > > reports of XL "folding wings". He apparently believes that the XL is too > > dangerous to fly. He decided to dismantle the airframe and sell it as parts. > > > > My take is that this is a rumor-driven disaster. > > > > Jay in Dallas > > Do not archive > > > > > > At 07:54 PM 7/8/2008 +0000, Philip Welsch wrote: > > > Terry: > > > > My experience with the XL involved what I would describe as a span-wise > > shudder. It was like sitting on a diving board that someone else was > > jumping on. I saw no control surface or wing vibration other than the > > normal oil canning (I did not, however observe the flaps during the event). > > > > I was flying at 7,800' msl (aprox. 2,000' agl) at 105 mph ias. I was > > upwind of and about one half mile from the west flank of Cookes Peak > > (8,408' msl). It was about 0830 local, 40 degrees F, clear sky and there > > was very little wind and absolutely no turbulence. I was alone in the > > aircraft and light at about 1,000 lbs total weight (601 VV weighed 677 lbs > > empty). > > > > Upon feeling the shudder I reduced throttle and initiated a climb (about > > 10 degrees). Airspeed bled off to about 80 mph quickly and just as quickly > > the shudder was gone. 80 mph is probably about Va for a 601 XL at 1,000 > > lbs total weight. > > > > The landing 15 minutes later was uneventful and there was no noticable > > damage to control surfaces, flaps or rear attach bolts. The wings > > displayed no vertical or fore and aft movement suggesting attachment > > issues. No rivets appeared loose. > > > > 601VV had wing lockers and some inboard skin to spar A5's had been > > replaced due to suspected "smoking". The aircraft had about 370 hours > > total time when the event occurred. I bought the aircraft with 47 hours > > on the Hobbs. The builder was the owner of "Skyshops" and the airplane was > > constructed as a "Light Sport" demonstrator at CZAW with a gross weight > > of 1232 lbs. Contrary to what Heintz has suggested concerning lighter > > weight European constructed 601 XL's this aircraft appeared to conform to > > Heintz plans except for the composite landing gear. I received the plans > > with the aircraft and the changes CZAW made were attached to the > > appropriate Heintz drawing. This aircraft was licensed built by CZAW and I > > have the invoice documenting the purchase by CZAW of the serial number > > from Zenith Aircraft in Mexico Mo. > > > > I've flown about 2,100 hours during the last 20 years in eight models of > > light certificated aircraft and gliders. Much of that time has been during > > cross country flight in all kinds of VFR and MVFR weather - including > > substantial turbulence. I've always considered that I might be killed in a > > light aircraft but I figured that it would be due to some stupid pilot > > trick. Prior to the XL I had never been concerned about the possibility of > > structural failure killing me. > > > > I'm sure this is more that you bargained for, but you asked and I needed > > to vent. > > > > I don't care what you do with the information. > > > > Best regards, > > Philip Welsch > > > > > > > > > Terry Phillips ZBAGer > ttp44~at~rkymtn.net > Corvallis MT > 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons > are done; working on the wings > http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195792#195792 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:03 PM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Zenith-List: taildragger I checked the archives, and perhaps the questions were just asked a long time ago, because I did not find an answer. What weight impact does going from the nose wheel to the tail dragger have? How difficult is the tail wheel configuration to fly/land when compared to say, a J3? Does anyone have a rough guess as to how many tail wheel versions have been built vs the nose wheel? -- ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA ============================================ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:46 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rubber wing root moulding Gig, - Your comment made me remember:- Since several years ago, every time-my wife and myself fly commercial- (airlines)- she ask for a middle seat, - because she does not like to see the wings- move as- diving boards when in turbulence... - Saludos Gary Gower. Do not archive. --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Gig Giacona wrote: From: Gig Giacona Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Rubber wing root moulding That ain't flutter. We have a name for it in aviation. It's called turbulence. Sounds like he hit some funky airmass off the mountain. Hardly a reason to tear apart an airplane. I'm with Jay, rumor-driven disaster Terry Phillips wrote: > Jay > > Actually, I think the whole story is a bit more complex than you suggest. I > have been collecting data on flutter experiences as input for the enginee r > doing the independent engineering analysis for ZBAG. When I read of his > experience, I asked Philip for whatever information he could give me. He > responded with a very complete write up, which I am appending to this note. > I will let the readers decide whether Philip was 'spooked by the reports of > XL "folding wings."' I have not met Philip, but he seems like a pretty > levelheaded pilot to me, and he has way more pilot experience than I do. I > believe that Philip had serious concerns about the safety of his airplane > and rather than sell an aircraft that he did not consider safe, he parted > it out (which I'd bet lost him a bundle of money). If you're interested, > you might search the archives for Klaus Truemper's post which speaks to the > quality of CZAW's construction in Philips A/C. I'm attaching a sectional > image showing Cooke Peak. > > Terry > > > At 04:01 PM 7/30/2008 -0400, Jay in Dallas wrote: > > > The guy in New Mexico was a former member of our local EAA > > Chapter. According to one who knows him well, he got spooked by the > > reports of XL "folding wings". He apparently believes that the XL is too > > dangerous to fly. He decided to dismantle the airframe and sell it as parts. > > > > My take is that this is a rumor-driven disaster. > > > > Jay in Dallas > > Do not archive > > > > > > At 07:54 PM 7/8/2008 +0000, Philip Welsch wrote: > > > Terry: > > > > My experience with the XL involved what I would describe as a span-wise > > shudder. It was like sitting on a diving board that someone else was > > jumping on. I saw no control surface or wing vibration other than the > > normal oil canning (I did not, however observe the flaps during the event). > > > > I was flying at 7,800' msl (aprox. 2,000' agl) at 105 mph ias. I was > > upwind of and about one half=EF=BD mile from the west flank of Cooke s Peak > > (8,408' msl). It was about 0830 local, 40 degrees F, clear sky=EF=BD and there > > was very little wind and absolutely no turbulence. I was alone in the > > aircraft and light at about 1,000 lbs total weight (601 VV weighed 677 lbs > > empty). > > > > Upon feeling the shudder I reduced throttle and initiated a climb (about=EF=BD > > 10 degrees). Airspeed bled off to about 80 mph quickly and just as quickly > > the shudder was gone. 80 mph is probably about Va for a 601 XL at 1,000 > > lbs total weight. > > > > The landing 15 minutes later was uneventful and there was no noticable > > damage to control surfaces, flaps or rear attach bolts. The wings > > displayed no vertical or fore and aft movement suggesting attachment > > issues. No rivets appeared loose. > > > > 601VV had wing lockers and some inboard=EF=BD skin to spar A5's had been > > replaced due to suspected "smoking". The aircraft had about 370 hours > > total time=EF=BD when the event occurred. I bought the aircraft with 47 hours > > on the Hobbs. The builder was the owner of "Skyshops" and the airplane was > > constructed as a "Light Sport" demonstrator at CZAW=EF=BD with a gross weight > > of 1232 lbs. Contrary to what Heintz has suggested concerning lighter > > weight=EF=BD European constructed 601 XL's this aircraft appeared to conform to > > Heintz plans except for the composite landing gear. I received the plans > > with the aircraft and the changes CZAW made were attached to the > > appropriate Heintz drawing. This aircraft was licensed built by CZAW and I > > have the invoice documenting the purchase by CZAW=EF=BD of =EF=BD the serial number > > from Zenith Aircraft in Mexico Mo. > > > > I've flown about 2,100 hours during the last 20 years in=EF=BD eight models of=EF=BD > > light certificated aircraft and gliders. Much of that time has been during > > cross country flight in all kinds of VFR and MVFR weather -=EF=BD including > > substantial turbulence. I've always considered that I might be killed in a > > light aircraft but I figured that it would be due to some stupid pilot > > trick. Prior to the XL I had never been concerned about the possibility of > > structural failure killing me.=EF=BD > > > > I'm sure this is more that you bargained for, but you asked and I needed > > to vent. > > > > I don't care what you do with the information. > > > > Best regards, > > Philip Welsch=EF=BD =EF=BD > > > > > > > > > Terry Phillips ZBAGer > ttp44~at~rkymtn.net > Corvallis MT > 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons > are done; working on the wings > http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195792#195792 ============0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:40 PM PST US From: "Craig Spainhower" Subject: Zenith-List: XL flap drive for sale Since I built from a kit and decided to mount my flaps solid, I have a complete flap drive assembly that I would be happy to part with. It is complete, motor, tube, linkages, etc. except for the doubler that goes on the pilots seat back. Since this always sparks discussions about the virtue of having flaps I will mention that I 'talked' (mostly through e-mail) with several XL drivers that seldom if ever use flaps, even for short field landings. I did it to save weight and complexity as well as simplify adding wing root fairings. I will be at Oshkosh Friday through the rest of the weekend and since I'm driving this year I will bring the flap assembly with me. If interested I can be reached by cell phone 309-269-4555. If no one at Osh is interested I would entertain shipping it. I live ~ 50 miles SW of Chicago. I don't know what Zenith gets for it so make me an offer, I would like to see it go to a good home. I think it came with my control kit in 2005. Craig S. N601XS, 601xl 0-235 lyc, wings installed, almost done! ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:29 PM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: taildragger Jim, My 601HDS taildragger is easier to land than the J3 I owned many moons ago. The rudder seems to have more authority and the shorter wing makes cross wind landings a piece of cake. Weight wise my guess is 20 lbs. lighter for the taildragger, just because of the smaller wheel/tire and nose gear structure. -- Leo Gates N601Z - CH601HDS TDO Rotax 912UL Jim Belcher wrote: > > I checked the archives, and perhaps the questions were just asked a long time > ago, because I did not find an answer. > > What weight impact does going from the nose wheel to the tail dragger have? > How difficult is the tail wheel configuration to fly/land when compared to > say, a J3? Does anyone have a rough guess as to how many tail wheel versions > have been built vs the nose wheel? > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:21 PM PST US From: Rich Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest: 25 Msgs - 07/29/08 Hi list. I need to try a 76" x 54 pitch or 56 pitch prop for my Lycoming O-360 with solid crank on a CH801. Anyone know if there is some sort of try-before-u-buy program out there? I'm not sure this would be the correct pitch. May have to try a 52. Thanks Rich South Carolina ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:20 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: XL plans From: "Sabrina" What do the XL plans call out for the thickness of the rear spar attach plates? What is the distance called out from the bottom of the lower longeron to the top of the rear spar attach plate? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195831#195831 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:11 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: XL plans FWIW a builder visiting the ZAC booth at Oshkosh noticed the thicker plates on the 650 and asked Caleb about it (I was standing there). Caleb said that to shift the plate on the 650 vertically (as compared to the 601XL) to changes the wing's angle of incidence the height of the plate had to be reduced. The increase in thickness was to give the plate adequate strength in its attachment to the fuselage. Caleb said it had nothing to do with strengthening the attachment between the rear spar and the plate. If you are still at Oshkosh ask Caleb. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 10:01 PM Subject: Zenith-List: XL plans What do the XL plans call out for the thickness of the rear spar attach plates? What is the distance called out from the bottom of the lower longeron to the top of the rear spar attach plate? 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