Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:47 AM - 601 vs 650 (Joe Scheibinger)
2. 07:50 AM - new engine (ernie)
3. 09:10 AM - Re: new engine (Gig Giacona)
4. 09:12 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 07/31/08 (donr@sensenichprop.com)
5. 09:37 AM - Re: new engine (MaxNr@aol.com)
6. 09:51 AM - Re: New Panel Design (Maarten Versteeg)
7. 10:02 AM - Re: new engine (Gig Giacona)
8. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: new engine (Juan Vega)
9. 11:19 AM - Re: new engine (Gig Giacona)
10. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: new engine (Jimbo)
11. 03:26 PM - Re: Re: new engine (ernie)
12. 03:46 PM - Re: taildragger (dalemed)
13. 04:37 PM - Re: Taildraggers (Dirk Zahtilla)
14. 05:05 PM - Re: Re: Taildraggers (Roger & Lina Hill)
15. 05:25 PM - Re: Re: new engine (n801bh@netzero.com)
16. 07:26 PM - Back home from Africa...new projects and catching up.... (william Clapp)
17. 09:54 PM - Builders dinner photos (Jon Croke)
18. 11:05 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
19. 11:09 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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The thickness of the rear spar attachment has been thickened to what look
like somewhere between .090 to .125 on the 650 out here on the field in
Oshkosh. Also, you will not loose any baggage room if you retro-fit the new
650 canopy to your 601. Sabastian said you can keep your old baggage
compartment bulkhead in place. The nice part is you can put in the new
bulkhead in front of the old one and install a BRS chute! If you want some
pictures send me an E-mail and I will forward them to you. I don't know how
to post pictures so if someone out there wants to post them please do.
Joe in Oshkosh.
Message 2
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Anyone at Oshkosh see this?
LYCOMING TO OFFER LSA ENGINE
Lycoming is entering the light sport aircraft (LSA) arena. At Oshkosh
the company unveiled a new fuel-injected engine, derived from a model
well known to general aviation. Dubbed the IO-233-LSA, the
four-cylinder engine produces 100 hp at 2,400 rpm and has a 2,400-hour
TBO. The engine is rooted in the familiar 235-model line, but the
company took several steps to save weight with lighter parts. The
engine has a dry weight of 200 to 210 pounds and burns 5.25 gph at 75
percent power. It comes standard with dual electronic spark ignition,
throttle body fuel injection, and a lightweight starter and
alternator. It can run on ethanol-free unleaded fuel. Lycoming expects
to bring the engine to market next year under the ASTM (American
Society of Testing and Materials) standards that govern the LSA
industry. It did not announce
Message 3
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I saw story and thought "Great, now can they just guarantee that we will be able
to find ethanol-free unleaded fuel."
Since it isn't going through the regular FAA certification process it should help
keep the price down unless Lyc just doesn't know how to price an engine below
$25k.
ernieth(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Anyone at Oshkosh see this?
>
> LYCOMING TO OFFER LSA ENGINE
> Lycoming is entering the light sport aircraft (LSA) arena. At Oshkosh
> the company unveiled a new fuel-injected engine, derived from a model
> well known to general aviation. Dubbed the IO-233-LSA, the
> four-cylinder engine produces 100 hp at 2,400 rpm and has a 2,400-hour
> TBO. The engine is rooted in the familiar 235-model line, but the
> company took several steps to save weight with lighter parts. The
> engine has a dry weight of 200 to 210 pounds and burns 5.25 gph at 75
> percent power. It comes standard with dual electronic spark ignition,
> throttle body fuel injection, and a lightweight starter and
> alternator. It can run on ethanol-free unleaded fuel. Lycoming expects
> to bring the engine to market next year under the ASTM (American
> Society of Testing and Materials) standards that govern the LSA
> industry. It did not announce
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196013#196013
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 07/31/08 |
-----Original Message-----
From: Zenith-List Digest Server <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Zenith-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 07/31/08
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
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HTML Version:
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===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
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Zenith-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 07/31/08: 7
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:32 AM - 601 vs 650 (dougsire)
2. 05:40 AM - Re: taildragger (Roger & Lina Hill)
3. 06:40 AM - Re: New Panel Design (annken100)
4. 07:33 AM - 1 Last Post-open to critizism both constructive & otherw (Sabrina)
5. 08:07 AM - Re: Re: New Panel Design (Juan Vega)
6. 08:26 AM - Re: 1 Last Post-open to critizism both constructive & otherw
(Paul Mulwitz)
7. 09:05 AM - Re: 1 Last Post-open to critizism both constructive & otherw
(Juan Vega)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 05:32:30 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 vs 650
From: "dougsire" <dsire@imt.net>
I finished up my 3 day visit to Airventure and this is what I gather as to the
differences and reasons for the new 650 model:
Reasons:
-They want to have part commonality across all distribution channels (Zenith, AMD)
-Sometimes you just need to introduce a new model to keep interest going
Similarities and differences. The 650 is the 601 with the following differences
(might be more):
-New rudder. It has more of an angle and just looks better. No one had a better
explanation here except for looks. The nose skin and nose rib are larger
and the bottom angle is different so can't really redo a current rudder.
-Canopy. No brainer here. It looks nicer, has a better locking mechanism, has
greater headroom, is easier to build and has rollover protection. A retro kit
will be available for 601s.
-Angle of incidence on wing has changed. They have slighltly lowered the rear
spar to provide a lower nose position and better visibility. Roger said this
was what the Europeans were used to so they decided to change it. No performance
reasons were indicated. Otherwise the wing is the same.
-Additional fuselage bracing. Sebastian said there was some additional bracing
on the rear fuselage.
-Possible aileron balancing. Sebastian also indicated that they may add aileron
balancing which would consist of an extra rib added at the end of the aileron
with the balance inside the wing (not like Brazilian one).
-There may well be other small changes but is still the same basic structure.
It is interesting that the "loose cable" theory is now the official company line.
Doug Sire
601 XL
Billings, MT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195848#195848
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 05:40:26 AM PST US
From: "Roger & Lina Hill" <hills@sunflower.com>
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: taildragger
Jim;
Mostly it impacts your wallet. Have you ever tried to sell a tail dragger
in this tri-gear world? I would say it would knock 25% of the value of
the plane, and reduce your interested buyers by 80%
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Belcher
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 5:21 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: taildragger
I checked the archives, and perhaps the questions were just asked a long
time
ago, because I did not find an answer.
What weight impact does going from the nose wheel to the tail dragger have?
How difficult is the tail wheel configuration to fly/land when compared to
say, a J3? Does anyone have a rough guess as to how many tail wheel versions
have been built vs the nose wheel?
--
===========================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
===========================================
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 06:40:21 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New Panel Design
From: "annken100" <annken100@aol.com>
Dan,
The next gen dynon units are most impressive. I stop by the dynon booth here at
OSH daily to gawk at them. Of course, you guys suck because I have already
purchased my dynon gear already!! In comparison to the next gen stuff my panel
all of a sudden looks archaic. I've included a picture below. It looks like
a major avionics upgrade is in my plane's future and its not even finished yet!!
Ken Pavlou
601XL / Corvair
--------
601 XL / Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195856#195856
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0274_211.jpg
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 07:33:03 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: 1 Last Post-open to critizism both constructive & otherw
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris@msn.com>
The decalage change still bothers me...
I increased the decalage, be it aerodynamic or geometric, by pitching my horizontal
stabilizer down two degrees.
Zenith has now increased the decalage by lowering the rear of the wing and maintaining
the status quo on the horizontal stabilizer. I am told, second hand,
this is done without ANY change to the main spar set angle (that is why I wanted
to compare plans.)
Both the 650 and Sabrina are inherently more stable than the 601 with this increased
decalage giving it the ability to dampen larger vibrations/oscillations.
We both loose performance. The 601 is more efficient. Correct?
With a factory O-200A engine mount, the engine mount aligns the center of trust
with the main longerons.
Does the twisting of the 650 main spar (if indeed it remains as speced in the 601
plans) add strength to the structure by pre-loading it?
I lowered the leading edge of the my horizontal stabilizer to better balance the
airplane so will it fly level without trim (heavy engine) compared to the line
of thrust and main longerons. The added benefit was additional stability.
By lowering the rear spar, the aircraft will fly more nose down. To fly level,
the 650, with a 601 engine mount, no longer flies along its line of thrust or
main longerons. Correct?
Comments?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195862#195862
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/decalage_407.jpg
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 08:07:02 AM PST US
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: New Panel Design
Bout the nicest panel I have seen so far!
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: annken100 <annken100@aol.com>
>Sent: Jul 31, 2008 9:37 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New Panel Design
>
>
>Dan,
>
>The next gen dynon units are most impressive. I stop by the dynon booth here
at OSH daily to gawk at them. Of course, you guys suck because I have already
purchased my dynon gear already!! In comparison to the next gen stuff my panel
all of a sudden looks archaic. I've included a picture below. It looks like
a major avionics upgrade is in my plane's future and its not even finished
yet!!
>
>Ken Pavlou
>
>601XL / Corvair
>
>--------
>601 XL / Corvair
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=195856#195856
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0274_211.jpg
>
>
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 08:26:42 AM PST US
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 1 Last Post-open to critizism both constructive & otherw
Hi Sabrina,
I agree with your analysis and conclusions.
By lowering the trailing edge ZAC has not only increased the
decalage, they have also changed the wing incidence angle as compared
to the fuselage. I think both approaches (yours and theirs) add a
bit to the pitch stability compared to the original design.
From the comments posted by others, I think ZAC's goal was not to
increase the stability but rather to increase the forward
visibility. By changing the incidence they have made a bigger impact
on the airspeed capability of the plane. The fuselage (or wing,
depending on how you hold your head) has more parasitic drag because
of the incidence change.
In short, I think you have traded stability for drag while they have
traded forward visibility and stability for even more drag.
I don't know what happens if they align the engine thrust with the
longerons rather than the wing. I guess throttle changes will have
more impact on elevator trim. I have no opinion on your pre-loading
point with regard to the spar angle.
However, I still think (as I posted a few days ago) they are hoping
the bad publicity associated with the XL will all go away because
they changed the model name.
Paul
XL getting close
At 07:29 AM 7/31/2008, you wrote:
>The decalage change still bothers me...
>
>I increased the decalage, be it aerodynamic or geometric, by
>pitching my horizontal stabilizer down two degrees.
>
>Zenith has now increased the decalage by lowering the rear of the
>wing and maintaining the status quo on the horizontal stabilizer. I
>am told, second hand, this is done without ANY change to the main
>spar set angle (that is why I wanted to compare plans.)
>
>Both the 650 and Sabrina are inherently more stable than the 601
>with this increased decalage giving it the ability to dampen larger
>vibrations/oscillations. We both loose performance. The 601 is
>more efficient. Correct?
>
>With a factory O-200A engine mount, the engine mount aligns the
>center of trust with the main longerons.
>
>Does the twisting of the 650 main spar (if indeed it remains as
>speced in the 601 plans) add strength to the structure by pre-loading it?
>
>I lowered the leading edge of the my horizontal stabilizer to better
>balance the airplane so will it fly level without trim (heavy
>engine) compared to the line of thrust and main longerons. The
>added benefit was additional stability.
>
>By lowering the rear spar, the aircraft will fly more nose
>down. To fly level, the 650, with a 601 engine mount, no longer
>flies along its line of thrust or main longerons. Correct?
>
>Comments?
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 09:05:46 AM PST US
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 1 Last Post-open to critizism both constructive &
otherw
I would just ask AMD if they changed the angle of incidence to the horizontal
stab, the engine mount as well as the wing? If they changed the stab and wing,
the speed would not vary significantly. Engine mount would be insignificant
at torque and speeds we fly,You could probably change the angle enough with
a few well placed washers. You could do all three to the 601.
I disagree with the thought the "Bad name" of the 601 would go away. What bad
name? Some guys flew it out of spec so blame it on the plane?
Interesting how we always blame the machines not the men.
Juan
>From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
>Sent: Jul 31, 2008 11:22 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 1 Last Post-open to critizism both constructive &
otherw
>
>
>Hi Sabrina,
>
>I agree with your analysis and conclusions.
>
>By lowering the trailing edge ZAC has not only increased the
>decalage, they have also changed the wing incidence angle as compared
>to the fuselage. I think both approaches (yours and theirs) add a
>bit to the pitch stability compared to the original design.
>
> From the comments posted by others, I think ZAC's goal was not to
>increase the stability but rather to increase the forward
>visibility. By changing the incidence they have made a bigger impact
>on the airspeed capability of the plane. The fuselage (or wing,
>depending on how you hold your head) has more parasitic drag because
>of the incidence change.
>
>In short, I think you have traded stability for drag while they have
>traded forward visibility and stability for even more drag.
>
>I don't know what happens if they align the engine thrust with the
>longerons rather than the wing. I guess throttle changes will have
>more impact on elevator trim. I have no opinion on your pre-loading
>point with regard to the spar angle.
>
>However, I still think (as I posted a few days ago) they are hoping
>the bad publicity associated with the XL will all go away because
>they changed the model name.
>
>Paul
>XL getting close
>
>
>At 07:29 AM 7/31/2008, you wrote:
>>The decalage change still bothers me...
>>
>>I increased the decalage, be it aerodynamic or geometric, by
>>pitching my horizontal stabilizer down two degrees.
>>
>>Zenith has now increased the decalage by lowering the rear of the
>>wing and maintaining the status quo on the horizontal stabilizer. I
>>am told, second hand, this is done without ANY change to the main
>>spar set angle (that is why I wanted to compare plans.)
>>
>>Both the 650 and Sabrina are inherently more stable than the 601
>>with this increased decalage giving it the ability to dampen larger
>>vibrations/oscillations. We both loose performance. The 601 is
>>more efficient. Correct?
>>
>>With a factory O-200A engine mount, the engine mount aligns the
>>center of trust with the main longerons.
>>
>>Does the twisting of the 650 main spar (if indeed it remains as
>>speced in the 601 plans) add strength to the structure by pre-loading it?
>>
>>I lowered the leading edge of the my horizontal stabilizer to better
>>balance the airplane so will it fly level without trim (heavy
>>engine) compared to the line of thrust and main longerons. The
>>added benefit was additional stability.
>>
>>By lowering the rear spar, the aircraft will fly more nose
>>down. To fly level, the 650, with a 601 engine mount, no longer
>>flies along its line of thrust or main longerons. Correct?
>>
>>Comments?
>
>
Message 5
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This would be nice if it would bolt up to existing Dyna-Focal mounts. BTW, is
ethanol-free non-leaded fuel still available?
RTD
**************
Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
(http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: New Panel Design |
Hello Ken,
Sure you can always find fancier panels, but your panel would
be a huge improvement over the panels I find in the 30 year
old planes I regularly rent. The more advanced Dynon panels
might even invite to flight into riskier environments beyond
the basic VFR. But it certainly is nice that they combined the
navigation (map) display in their system, but you loose the
redundancy of map and EFIS.
When I looked at your panel picture I was actually surprised,
I am only just about to start the fuselage and here suddenly
was my current draft panel concept already in real life. Do
you have higher resolution pictures that you would be willing
to share (or email me personally). Two other questions, what
radio did you decide upon and is the hole on the right of
the Dynon for the announced autopilot control panel?
Regards,
Maarten,
plans building 601xl,
about to finish the 2nd wing
>
> Dan,
>
> The next gen dynon units are most impressive. I stop by the dynon booth here
at
> OSH daily to gawk at them. Of course, you guys suck because I have already
> purchased my dynon gear already!! In comparison to the next gen stuff my panel
> all of a sudden looks archaic. I've included a picture below. It looks like
> a major avionics upgrade is in my plane's future and its not even finished yet!!
>
> Ken Pavlou
>
> 601XL / Corvair
Message 7
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rtdin wrote:
> This would be nice if it would bolt up to existing Dyna-Focal mounts. BTW, is
ethanol-free non-leaded fuel still available?
>
It is in South Arkansas but not in North Arkansas. In Central Arkansas it seems
to be a hit or miss thing and depends where they get their gas from.
For the record I've made 4 trips in the past couple of months all the way (N-S)
across the state on the same highways with the cruise control ON pretty much
the whole way. I fill up here with real gas and drive to Blytheville and then
fill up there with ethanol laced stuff. On all four trips my mileage has been
a little over 22mpg with real gas and a little less than 20mpg with ethanol.
This seems to prove to me that ethanol is providing 10% less power gas. So think
about that as you are filling up at high DA with corn syrup....I mean Ethanol.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196022#196022
Message 8
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Gig,
did you find that the engine ran leaner as well,? I found that on mine so fuel
buen was high due to that as well.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 1, 2008 12:59 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: new engine
>
>
>
>rtdin wrote:
>> This would be nice if it would bolt up to existing Dyna-Focal mounts. BTW, is
ethanol-free non-leaded fuel still available?
>>
>
>
>It is in South Arkansas but not in North Arkansas. In Central Arkansas it seems
to be a hit or miss thing and depends where they get their gas from.
>
>For the record I've made 4 trips in the past couple of months all the way (N-S)
across the state on the same highways with the cruise control ON pretty much
the whole way. I fill up here with real gas and drive to Blytheville and then
fill up there with ethanol laced stuff. On all four trips my mileage has been
a little over 22mpg with real gas and a little less than 20mpg with ethanol.
>
>This seems to prove to me that ethanol is providing 10% less power gas. So think
about that as you are filling up at high DA with corn syrup....I mean Ethanol.
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196022#196022
>
>
Message 9
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I have no idea how lean my truck's engine was leaning. All I know is that it burned
10% more of stuff that I paid the same $4.10 for when it had ethanol.
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> Gig,
> did you find that the engine ran leaner as well,? I found that on mine so fuel
buen was high due to that as well.
>
> Juan
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196037#196037
Message 10
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Try and buy one for your project at any price. They, like TCM, are after the S-LSA
OEM market, not homebuilders. I tried several times to get a price quote on
a new 0-200 from TCM and from their major distributors. They never get back
to me, and its not that easy to even find someone at these companies willing to
talk to you.
--- On Fri, 8/1/08, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: new engine
<wrgiacona@gmail.com>
I saw story and thought "Great, now can they just guarantee that we will
be able to find ethanol-free unleaded fuel."
Since it isn't going through the regular FAA certification process it
should help keep the price down unless Lyc just doesn't know how to price an
engine below $25k.
ernieth(at)gmail.com wrote:
> Anyone at Oshkosh see this?
>
> LYCOMING TO OFFER LSA ENGINE
> Lycoming is entering the light sport aircraft (LSA) arena. At Oshkosh
> the company unveiled a new fuel-injected engine, derived from a model
> well known to general aviation. Dubbed the IO-233-LSA, the
> four-cylinder engine produces 100 hp at 2,400 rpm and has a 2,400-hour
> TBO. The engine is rooted in the familiar 235-model line, but the
> company took several steps to save weight with lighter parts. The
> engine has a dry weight of 200 to 210 pounds and burns 5.25 gph at 75
> percent power. It comes standard with dual electronic spark ignition,
> throttle body fuel injection, and a lightweight starter and
> alternator. It can run on ethanol-free unleaded fuel. Lycoming expects
> to bring the engine to market next year under the ASTM (American
> Society of Testing and Materials) standards that govern the LSA
> industry. It did not announce
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196013#196013
Message 11
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hi
At sun and fun I got that feeling from continental. I told the
lycoming sales booth that I was ignored. They seemed a lot more
interested in talking to the lone builder
E
On 8/1/08, Jimbo <jimandmandy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Try and buy one for your project at any price. They, like TCM, are after the
> S-LSA OEM market, not homebuilders. I tried several times to get a price
> quote on a new 0-200 from TCM and from their major distributors. They never
> get back to me, and its not that easy to even find someone at these
> companies willing to talk to you.
>
> --- On Fri, 8/1/08, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: new engine
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 9:07 AM
>
> <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>
> I saw story and thought "Great, now can they just guarantee that we will
> be able to find ethanol-free unleaded fuel."
>
> Since it isn't going through the regular FAA certification process it
> should help keep the price down unless Lyc just doesn't know how to price an
> engine below $25k.
>
>
> ernieth(at)gmail.com wrote:
>> Anyone at Oshkosh see this?
>>
>> LYCOMING TO OFFER LSA ENGINE
>> Lycoming is entering the light sport aircraft (LSA) arena. At Oshkosh
>> the company unveiled a new fuel-injected engine, derived from a model
>> well known to general aviation. Dubbed the IO-233-LSA, the
>> four-cylinder engine produces 100 hp at 2,400 rpm and has a 2,400-hour
>> TBO. The engine is rooted in the familiar 235-model line, but the
>> company took several steps to save weight with lighter parts. The
>> engine has a dry weight of 200 to 210 pounds and burns 5.25 gph at 75
>> percent power. It comes standard with dual electronic spark ignition,
>> throttle body fuel injection, and a lightweight starter and
>> alternator. It can run on ethanol-free unleaded fuel. Lycoming expects
>> to bring the engine to market next year under the ASTM (American
>> Society of Testing and Materials) standards that govern the LSA
>> industry. It did not announce
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196013#196013
>
>
Message 12
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z601(at)anemicaardvark.co wrote:
> I checked the archives, and perhaps the questions were just asked a long time
> ago, because I did not find an answer.
>
> What weight impact does going from the nose wheel to the tail dragger have?
> How difficult is the tail wheel configuration to fly/land when compared to
> say, a J3? Does anyone have a rough guess as to how many tail wheel versions
> have been built vs the nose wheel?
> --
> ============================================
> Jim B Belcher
> BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
> A&P/IA
> ============================================
Jim,
I'm glad you asked this question and I hope you get some answers.
I'm building a 601XL and, at this time, I'm planning on building the TD version.
I think it looks better. Also, I've never owned anything but taildraggers
(a Taylorcraft BC12D, Cessna 140 and currently a Cessna 170).
I talked to a guy at the Zenith dinner at Oshkosh who recently flew his 601 TD
for the first time. He says I should consider getting some time in a short coupled
TD (like a Pitts!!) before flying my 601. He says the rudder is much more
sensitive on the the 601 than on the planes I've been flying. He thinks this
is partly due to the fact that the rudder peddles don't have the loading of
the nose wheel so it takes very little pressure on the peddles to deflect the
rudder.
I hope we can get some comments from TD flyers on this forum.
Dale
--------
Dale
Flying Cessna 170B
Building Zenith 601XL
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196086#196086
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Taildraggers |
I'm also just starting a 601XL . I'm doing a taildragger and too bad if
the resale value suffers. I'm also going to dimple the rivet holes for
true flush riveting, and I'll use a Lyc 0235. If I'm building a plane
for me, why not go for the gusto!
Z
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Taildraggers |
Z;
Dimple the 601XL huh? Like my Sonerai I built? Why not go for the gusto?
Ya sure, it looks better, but take 200% longer to build the dang thing..
Just pop man, pop fast and go flying sooner. Dimples are for RV-6ses and
war birds..
Roger
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dirk Zahtilla
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 6:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Taildraggers
I'm also just starting a 601XL . I'm doing a taildragger and too bad if the
resale value suffers. I'm also going to dimple the rivet holes for true
flush riveting, and I'll use a Lyc 0235. If I'm building a plane for me, why
not go for the gusto!
Z
Message 15
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This one of my main compliants with the "Experimental Aircraft Assoc". I
f they allow a vendor to display at their Airventure they must require t
he same vendor to make all products available to the homebuilder. They w
ould have little problem doing this. Just add a clause in the contract a
nyone must sign to have a booth at OSH. If they don't want to sell to ho
mebuilders then they can display and sell to the people at the "Certifie
d Aircraft Assoc" gathering.... Hmmm Whats that ? Their is no Certified
Aircraft Assoc ?? <GGG>
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
Lifetime EAA member....
-- ernie <ernieth@gmail.com> wrote:
hi
At sun and fun I got that feeling from continental. I told the
lycoming sales booth that I was ignored. They seemed a lot more
interested in talking to the lone builder
E
On 8/1/08, Jimbo <jimandmandy@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Try and buy one for your project at any price. They, like TCM, are aft
er the
> S-LSA OEM market, not homebuilders. I tried several times to get a pri
ce
> quote on a new 0-200 from TCM and from their major distributors. They
never
> get back to me, and its not that easy to even find someone at these
> companies willing to talk to you.
>
> --- On Fri, 8/1/08, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: new engine
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 9:07 AM
>
> <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>
> I saw story and thought "Great, now can they just guarantee that we wi
ll
> be able to find ethanol-free unleaded fuel."
>
> Since it isn't going through the regular FAA certification process it
> should help keep the price down unless Lyc just doesn't know how to pr
ice an
> engine below $25k.
>
>
> ernieth(at)gmail.com wrote:
>> Anyone at Oshkosh see this?
>>
>> LYCOMING TO OFFER LSA ENGINE
>> Lycoming is entering the light sport aircraft (LSA) arena. At Oshkosh
>> the company unveiled a new fuel-injected engine, derived from a model
>> well known to general aviation. Dubbed the IO-233-LSA, the
>> four-cylinder engine produces 100 hp at 2,400 rpm and has a 2,400-hou
r
>> TBO. The engine is rooted in the familiar 235-model line, but the
>> company took several steps to save weight with lighter parts. The
>> engine has a dry weight of 200 to 210 pounds and burns 5.25 gph at 75
>> percent power. It comes standard with dual electronic spark ignition,
>> throttle body fuel injection, and a lightweight starter and
>> alternator. It can run on ethanol-free unleaded fuel. Lycoming expect
s
>> to bring the engine to market next year under the ASTM (American
>> Society of Testing and Materials) standards that govern the LSA
>> industry. It did not announce
>
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=196013#196013
>
>
========================
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===========
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Back home from Africa...new projects and catching up.... |
Hello folks.-- After a few weeks gone it is nice to be back home.- I
have an update started on my website billclapp.com about the trip to Mozamb
ique and some of the goings on.- I have the final week of the trip still
to finish and get on the web with some new happenings and friends.- Will
try to get that done this weekend.- I got to meet some KR guys and had a
real good time working on the damaged 210.- Check out the info and photos
...
-
Some new projects are being worked on while at home.- I currently have th
e engine out of the KR for some updates.- I feel like I've been having wi
thdrawl syptoms since I haven't flown N41768 for over a month.- I didn,t
have time for Oshkosh this year with my trip and all but sure plan to be at
the KR Gathering (September).-- Have lots of "mom" duties to take care
of at home with school starting on Monday.
-
I sure hope fun was had by all in Oshkosh.-
-
Bill
Bill Clapp - KR2S builder and pilot
Valdosta GA
www.billclapp.com=0A=0A=0A
Message 17
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| Subject: | Builders dinner photos |
Pictures from Thursday's Zenith builders dinner on display at
www.zenair.org
Message 18
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Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
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Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
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- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
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agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
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will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
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should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
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everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
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| Subject: | Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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