---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/07/08: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:48 AM - Re: rivet squeezer (Bill Pagan) 2. 06:36 AM - Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! (Gig Giacona) 3. 07:44 AM - Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! (Roger Lee) 4. 08:03 AM - Re: rivet squeezer (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 5. 08:19 AM - Re: rivet squeezer (steve) 6. 08:25 AM - Re: rivet squeezer (Carlos Sa) 7. 09:20 AM - Re: rivet squeezer (Paul Mulwitz) 8. 11:17 AM - Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! (Juan Vega) 9. 06:03 PM - Re: Zenith701801-List: rivet squeezer (Carlos Sa) 10. 06:06 PM - Re: 601 vs 650 (Ken Lilja) 11. 06:24 PM - Re: 601 vs 650 (Jay Maynard) 12. 07:02 PM - Re: Rudder pedal tension - taildragger (Ken Lilja) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:33 AM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rivet squeezer An important consideration is the throat depth.- Remember if you buy a 2" squeezer then you can only reach rivets no more than 2" from the edge.- The squeezers with the interchangeable heads ie: 1", 1.5", 2" etc. give you more flexibility, although more expensive in most cases it is actually che aper if you end up having to buy more than 1 squeezer just for additional t hroat depths. Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 --- On Wed, 8/6/08, Carlos Sa wrote: From: Carlos Sa Subject: Zenith-List: rivet squeezer Hello, all I intend to buy a (manual) rivet squeezer (so far I have borrowed one), and I would appreciate to read about your experiences with these tools: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/handrivetsqueezer.php http://www.ustool.com/usstore.asp?WCI=wciViewItem&WCE=90997s http://www.ustool.com/usstore.asp?WCI=wciViewItem&WCE=90995s http://tinyurl.com/58baoc (aviation tools, eBay store) (Brown Tools seems to be offline, and Avery's squeezer is too expensive htt p://www.averytools.com/p-497-avery-hand-rivet-squeezers.aspx ) Thanks for your comments do not archive (yet) Carlos CH601-HD Montreal, Canada =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:31 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! From: "Gig Giacona" Roger, While it is hard to argue with any of the points in either the Chevron letter or your response the point of their producing it protection from liability. Protecting the company and the stockholders is not only their right but their responsibility. If you really want things like this to stop being necessary I suggest you write your state and federal congress critters and demand tort reform. I do at least two or three times a year. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197104#197104 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:39 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! From: "Roger Lee" Hi Gig, Those letters have been sent, too. Every website I posted on and I sent the letters to Flight Design have people speaking up in support. I have received dozens of emails in support and that is just since last night. One voice will dye, but thousands may be heard. Everyone, Don't sit ideally and complain. 1-2 minutes of your time is all anyone is asking. It's your future and your time to offer your hand in a worthwhile effort to help shape it. Do it for yourself if not for anyone else. sent, too. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Service Center 520-574-1080 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197127#197127 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:43 AM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rivet squeezer Hi Carlos, Not sure why you would buy a rivet squeezer when the spars are the only items using solid rivets. Harbor Fright anvil and a two pound hammer worked great for me. Jerry of Ga In a message dated 8/6/2008 9:38:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, carlossa52@gmail.com writes: Hello, all I intend to buy a (manual) rivet squeezer (so far I have borrowed one), and I would appreciate to read about your experiences with these tools: _http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/handrivetsqueezer.php_ (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/handrivetsqueezer.php) _http://www.ustool.com/usstore.asp?WCI=wciViewItem&WCE=90997s_ (http://www.ustool.com/usstore.asp?WCI=wciViewItem&WCE=90997s) _http://www.ustool.com/usstore.asp?WCI=wciViewItem&WCE=90995s_ (http://www.ustool.com/usstore.asp?WCI=wciViewItem&WCE=90995s) _http://tinyurl.com/58baoc_ (http://tinyurl.com/58baoc) (aviation tools, eBay store) (Brown Tools seems to be offline, and Avery's squeezer is too expensive _http://www.averytools.com/p-497-avery-hand-rivet-squeezers.aspx_ (http://www.averytools.com/p-497-avery-hand-rivet-squeezers.aspx) ) Thanks for your comments do not archive (yet) Carlos CH601-HD Montreal, Canada (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:12 AM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rivet squeezer You will need a squeezer sometime in your aviation life. Maybe not on the "basic" Zenith but you will add this and that in the future and a hammer is not the professional way to squeeze....... Years ago I bought the $119 model and its paid for itself many times over. I do wish I would have paid just a little more and purchased one with a deeper throat.. Steve Arizona N 9554 W ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeyoung65@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 8:01 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rivet squeezer Hi Carlos, Not sure why you would buy a rivet squeezer when the spars are the only items using solid rivets. Harbor Fright anvil and a two pound hammer worked great for me. Jerry of Ga In a message dated 8/6/2008 9:38:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, carlossa52@gmail.com writes: Hello, all I intend to buy a (manual) rivet squeezer (so far I have borrowed one), and I would appreciate to read about your experiences with these tools: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/handrivetsqueezer.php http://www.ustool.com/usstore.asp?WCI=wciViewItem&WCE=90997s http://www.ustool.com/usstore.asp?WCI=wciViewItem&WCE=90995s http://tinyurl.com/58baoc (aviation tools, eBay store) (Brown Tools seems to be offline, and Avery's squeezer is too expensive http://www.averytools.com/p-497-avery-hand-rivet-squeezers.aspx ) Thanks for your comments do not archive (yet) Carlos CH601-HD Montreal, Canada f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics .com/Navigator?Zenith-List .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:13 AM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rivet squeezer There are few spots where you need solid rivets, according to the plans. But I have a couple of other applications where I definitely like the looks of solid rivets (yes, I know, more time and effort - but what do I care, it's been some 8 or 9 years already, a couple more is only 10%...). Examples are access panels (1) to the instrument panel, from the top of the fuselage and (2) to the wing tip, to install / repair lights. See attached photo. Cheers Carlos CH601-HD (remember the HD?!), plans 2008/8/7 > Hi Carlos, Not sure why you would buy a rivet squeezer when the spars are > the only items using solid rivets. Harbor Fright anvil and a two pound > hammer worked great for me. Jerry of Ga > > In a message dated 8/6/2008 9:38:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > carlossa52@gmail.com writes: > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:57 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rivet squeezer Hi Carlos, I agree with you. Solid rivets are nice for installing nut plates in most applications. I use the soft aluminum rivets for this ("A" rather than "AD"). They are very easy to set with a 1 ton arbor press or just a small hammer and steel bar for bucking. Paul XL nearly done. At 08:24 AM 8/7/2008, you wrote: >There are few spots where you need solid rivets, according to the plans. >But I have a couple of other applications where I definitely like >the looks of solid rivets (yes, I know, more time and effort - but >what do I care, it's been some 8 or 9 years already, a couple more >is only 10%...). >Examples are access panels (1) to the instrument panel, from the top >of the fuselage and (2) to the wing tip, to install / repair lights. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:50 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 91 octane, time to be heard! NIce letter however it won't do much. WHat she states is a liability protecting stance, against some dipshit that wants to blame some potential accident on the fact they used Chevron Mogas. Just CYA. SHe is in fact correct on the risks of using MOGAS. Nothing we all do not know however. Benifits ecceed the risks at this point. The rebuttle should be the chevron, " Make more 100 LL or lead substitute gas and lower your FUel charges to Aviation. Still trying to figure out what your point is, though I appreciate the vigilance. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Roger Lee >Sent: Aug 6, 2008 8:48 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: 91 octane, time to be heard! > > >If you are happy with just 100LL stop here. You won't like where this is going. > >This effects us all even in other countries because one tends to follow the other at some point. >If you are tired of someone saying we can't have 91 octane, read on. It's time to pick a side and take 5 minutes to email. Our lives as people are good because someone didn't just say ok. Some took the time to make change and made it better for all of us. If we choose to sit on the sideline and just go along then we deserve what we get. I would implore all to take a minute and email these two people and any other fuel administrator in other companies. I will post on as many aviation websites as possible and I would you all to pick a side and stand up to be heard and maybe, just maybe we might effect change. I for one don't want to roll over. You are about to read a bulletin about the use of Chevron ground fuel verses aviation fuel. Then I have a response. > >Don't sit back and pick my memo apart, use that time to write your own and be heard. Post this on all your aviation websites. Let them hear a nation wide voice. > >Send your emails to: > >LIMG(at)chevron.com >kayalbitz(at)chevron.com > >or any other fuel company administrator. > >-------- >Roger Lee >Tucson, Az. >Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated >Rotax Service Center >520-574-1080 > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197016#197016 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/2008_04_2008_04_bulletin_2008_04_chevron_position_autogas_for_aviation_use_898.pdf >http://forums.matronics.com//files/ryan_memo_846.doc > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:35 PM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith701801-List: rivet squeezer Thanks to all that offered their comments, on and off list. Happy building, folks ! Carlos CH601-HD, plans tail feathers, right wing done, making left wing tip do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:29 PM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 vs 650 As I looked and asked about the 650 this is what I noticed: The rudder sweep back comes from lengthening the top fuselage rudder hinge fitting. The bottom forward rudder leading edge fairing 6T5-4 is now wider at the top that the bottom. I did not notice if the rudder chord had increased. The diagonal stiffeners added between the fuselage uprights are a hold over from the European version. They use a thinner skin. I was told the diagonals were standard L angles. It was also mentioned that .016" L angles would probably be sufficient. I did not hear about possible aileron balance weights. Putting an extra rib at the outboard end would allow for relatively easy retrofitting. I had thought about adding an extra rib near the center of the aileron for a possible balance weight, just in case. A comment on cable tension: this is absolutely important on any airplane. If the controls end up feeling stiff - get used to it. If the structure bends or cracks fix that. Leaving the cable tension loose is as much of a change from the design as changing the spar design. The cables will stretch and the structure will settle. I will check it every few flights for maybe the first 50 -100 hours. Also checking when the weather warms up and cools down through the year is not a bad idea. Erring to the high side is much better than erring to the low side. Someone suggested that I write an article for the newsletter on setting cable tension. I will see what I can do. Ken Lilja dougsire wrote: > > I finished up my 3 day visit to Airventure and this is what I gather as to the differences and reasons for the new 650 model: > Reasons: > -They want to have part commonality across all distribution channels (Zenith, AMD) > -Sometimes you just need to introduce a new model to keep interest going > > Similarities and differences. The 650 is the 601 with the following differences (might be more): > -New rudder. It has more of an angle and just looks better. No one had a better explanation here except for looks. The nose skin and nose rib are larger and the bottom angle is different so can't really redo a current rudder. > -Canopy. No brainer here. It looks nicer, has a better locking mechanism, has greater headroom, is easier to build and has rollover protection. A retro kit will be available for 601s. > -Angle of incidence on wing has changed. They have slighltly lowered the rear spar to provide a lower nose position and better visibility. Roger said this was what the Europeans were used to so they decided to change it. No performance reasons were indicated. Otherwise the wing is the same. > -Additional fuselage bracing. Sebastian said there was some additional bracing on the rear fuselage. > -Possible aileron balancing. Sebastian also indicated that they may add aileron balancing which would consist of an extra rib added at the end of the aileron with the balance inside the wing (not like Brazilian one). > -There may well be other small changes but is still the same basic structure. > > It is interesting that the "loose cable" theory is now the official company line. > > Doug Sire > 601 XL > Billings, MT > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:05 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 vs 650 On Thu, Aug 07, 2008 at 09:06:35PM -0400, Ken Lilja wrote: > The cables will stretch and the structure will settle. I will check it > every few flights for maybe the first 50 -100 hours. Also checking when > the weather warms up and cools down through the year is not a bad idea. > Erring to the high side is much better than erring to the low side. Mathieu Heintz told me he recommended I flip the seat forward and make sure the aileron cables twanged when I pluck them on preflight. I've added it to the list. (I'm not too concerned about my AMD Zodiac's cables loosening, since they're pretensioned when the ends are swaged on, but it's still something I'll check.) -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:02:20 PM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Rudder pedal tension - taildragger A very late comment on rudder cable tension: Both the Cessna 150/152 and 170/172 series just used springs on the rudder pedals. You adjust the cables so the pedal stands a certain distance from the firewall. (changing those springs is not an enjoyable job) Ken Lilja Jeff Barnes wrote: > > On the taildragger version, are there any recommendations on keeping > tension on the rudder cables. Zenith forgot to address this in the > manual. After calling them they recommended springs attached to the > firewall. I have heard of making a bellcrank with rods attached to the > rudder pedals for a counter-balance so proper tension can be > maintained. Any suggestions or recommendations would be greatly > appreciated. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.