---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/09/08: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:43 PM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (Roger & Lina Hill) 2. 02:12 PM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (Iberplanes IGL) 3. 02:36 PM - 6k2-3 side fairings (chris Sinfield) 4. 02:54 PM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (Larry Winger) 5. 03:37 PM - Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! (MaxNr@aol.com) 6. 04:02 PM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (Dave G.) 7. 04:14 PM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (Dave Austin) 8. 04:25 PM - Aeleron (sp?) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL (John REINKING) 9. 04:54 PM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (Larry Winger) 10. 05:11 PM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (Iberplanes IGL) 11. 05:24 PM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (Craig Payne) 12. 05:32 PM - Re: Aeleron (sp?) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL (Juan Vega) 13. 05:34 PM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (steve) 14. 05:37 PM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (Dave Austin) 15. 06:37 PM - Re: Aeleron (sp?) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL (Juan Vega) 16. 06:55 PM - A conversation on a plane (Juan Vega) 17. 07:03 PM - Re: Aeleron (sp?) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL (Ken Lilja) 18. 07:09 PM - Flap or aileron next? (Ken Lilja) 19. 07:40 PM - Re: 6k2-3 side fairings (jaybannist@cs.com) 20. 08:01 PM - Re: Flap or aileron next? (Carlos Sa) 21. 08:11 PM - Re: A conversation on a plane (Larry Hursh) 22. 08:12 PM - Re: 6k2-3 side fairings (chris Sinfield) 23. 08:16 PM - Re: Flap or aileron next? (Ken Lilja) 24. 08:19 PM - Re: Flap or aileron next? (Larry Hursh) 25. 08:21 PM - Re: Flap or aileron next? (Bryan Martin) 26. 08:24 PM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (Larry Winger) 27. 08:32 PM - Re: Flap or aileron next? (Bryan Martin) 28. 09:01 PM - Re: A conversation on a plane (raymondj) 29. 10:39 PM - Aeleron (sp) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL (MaxNr@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:31 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute Larry Winger Do you know, how does the parachute attach to the low wing 650? Thanks Roger _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Winger Sent: Friday, August 08, 2008 1:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute I spoke with Roger at ZAC today, and he said that AMD is making the 650 with the BRS behind the new baggage back bulkhead. Yes, it does shift the CG back a bit, but it also protects the BRS from getting fouled with other personal baggage. One of the only other issues I'm wondering about is access for maintenance, but I'm sure they figured it out. When I get specific installation info from AMD, I'll try to post it here. Hopefully others will do the same. Larry Winger Tustin, CA Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair Fuse 50% Wings and control surfaces done. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:12:42 PM PST US From: "Iberplanes IGL" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute FYI, The 650 canopy will fit the XL and is compatible with the BRS chute. The 601XL has a little deeper baggage compartment than the 650. On the 601XL the rear of the baggage compartment will still be under the aluminum skin. This will allow for the normal 601XL BRS chute installation. On the 650 the rear baggage bulkhead has been move forward a little and the BRS is installed behind that bulkhead. I would not change the location of the rear bulkhead and just leave the BRS in the rear portion of the baggage compartment. -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:16 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 6k2-3 side fairings From: "chris Sinfield" Hi Gang I just replaced my center stick with a set of dual sticks. I received the 3 pages of dual stick drawings from zenith with the kit, what I did not get was a drawing for the different side fairing and fuel selector panel area. Is there a different drawing of this side panel to allow for the cutout of the duel stick. I see lots of pictures/ photos of the QB kits with it and the parts catalog shows the larger side panel on 6-XN-24. its the weekend and so I cannot ring the factory and ask? Was I missing something?? My original plans just show the old side fairing and old center console on page 6-K-2 Do I need to ask for something different Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197563#197563 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:22 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute I spoke briefly with the folks at AMD last week and got the impression that they were installing the BRS behind the new standard location for the rear baggage bulkhead. I didn't hear any talk about having to move that. What I don't yet know is what kinds of modifications were necessary to make it work. Once I get a clear picture, I plan to share it with the group. Larry Winger Tustin, CA Scratchbuilding 601XL turned 650/Corvair Wings & control surfaces done. Fuse 50%. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:37:56 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 91 octane, time to be heard! Just to be clear. When we say 91 octane, its autogas that we are talking about and not the old 91/96 avgas, am I right? From my scant knowledge, I understand that the refinery standards for all fuels are excellent for all products. Quality is all good. Its the transportation and delivery standards that may vary. My recent post retirement gig involved conducting safety and compliance inspections for the aviation department of a major oil company. A biggie at my visits involved the fuel installations. To be sure, they only use turbine fuel, but procedures are basically the same. Check the filters, check the procedures manual, check the pipes, check the people, blah, blah. I spent half a day on fuel. The bottom line is that aviation fuel installations have way good filters and somebody is always responsible for checking for water and contamination on a daily basis and they keep good records for jerks like me. Aviation fuel installations all have SS pipes and valves. This is a far cry from what you find at a convenience store. Has anybody ever seen anyone there ever check for water or drain it from the tanks? Daily? Are the filters out of date? Does the air head clerk come outside to do the white bucket test and supervise delivery? All pilots in our community know how to test for alcohol by now. Many own that cool filter/funnel that you buy at the boat store or ACS. Even a fuel nerd like myself can ensure that good fuel can be obtained that will feed an old Lyc that was TC'd in 1940. Bob Dingley 601XL/Lyc Do not archive ************** Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 ) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:41 PM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute I wonder if pilots with power parachute craft spend as much time wondering how to attach fixed wings to their aircraft in case the chute fails... Just wondering.... ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:01 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute Well said, Dave G. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:28 PM PST US From: John REINKING Subject: Zenith-List: Aeleron (sp?) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL Howdy, group I've been reading about using pushrods instead of cables for operating the aelerons. Will some of you with more experience than this novice mind discussing the pros and cons of pushrods v. cable in this application. Am curious if the added weight of the pushrods would be a better longterm replacement for the normal stretching of control cables in this application. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:06 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute As a scratch builder, I'd say I've spent at least as much time as anyone else. Maybe more than most. Life doesn't have to be "either or." "Both/and" can also be very advantageous. Larry Winger Do Not Archive On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 4:01 PM, Dave G. wrote: > I wonder if pilots with power parachute craft spend as much time > wondering how to attach fixed wings to their aircraft in case the chute > fails... > > Just wondering.... > > ** > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:03 PM PST US From: "Iberplanes IGL" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute ....and what=B4s the problem if people like to install a chute? -- Alberto Martin www.iberplanes.es Igualada - Barcelona - Spain ---------------------------------------------- Zodiac 601 XL Builder Serial: 6-7011 Tail Kit: Finished Wings: Not Started Fuselage: Ordered Engine: Jabiru 3300 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:51 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute A fixed wing aircraft is in a different situation that a powered parachute when its *engine* fails. For those of us that fly over rough terrain there is often not a good place to put down. Some reasonable people have decided that fitting a BRS is a sound decision for a number of reasons. It is an argument that won't be settled here. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G. Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 5:02 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute I wonder if pilots with power parachute craft spend as much time wondering how to attach fixed wings to their aircraft in case the chute fails... Just wondering.... ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:52 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeleron (sp?) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL Pushrods are great. Cables are just as Great. Depends on the design parameters of the plane. How much dihedral, Speed of plane, force on ailerons. Weight constraints of the plane, etc.. Simple answer is, for an LSA 700 plane with a pronounced dihedral, at speeds below 180 knots, cable is perfect. You want to put push rods?, no harm done there either, if you can figure out the design for the wings with the 601's dehidral, and get over the more work needed to get rods correctly cut to size. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: John REINKING >Sent: Aug 9, 2008 7:24 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Aeleron (sp?) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL > > >Howdy, group >I've been reading about using pushrods instead of cables for operating >the aelerons. Will some of you with more experience than this novice >mind discussing the pros and cons of pushrods v. cable in this application. >Am curious if the added weight of the pushrods would be a better >longterm replacement for the normal stretching of control cables in this >application. > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:34 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute Wing Bolts ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 5:24 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute A fixed wing aircraft is in a different situation that a powered parachute when its *engine* fails. For those of us that fly over rough terrain there is often not a good place to put down. Some reasonable people have decided that fitting a BRS is a sound decision for a number of reasons. It is an argument that won't be settled here. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave G. Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 5:02 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute I wonder if pilots with power parachute craft spend as much time wondering how to attach fixed wings to their aircraft in case the chute fails... Just wondering.... http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:29 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute No problems at all. But the decision brings in may other factors. The chute uses up significant load carrying capacity. It increases fuel consumption and decreases range, decreases safety factor of the design, climb speed, lowers manouvering speed, and Vne, increases stall speed, landing speed, best glide speed etc.. So the question is: do I want all those things, with their inherent risk, or do I want the chute in case of engine or airframe failure. Nobody ever said it was simple. And I respect everyones' decision. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:52 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeleron (sp?) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL Also look at disances traveled between control points. You can use both in combo. Attached are some pictures showing push rod in short length to cable horn for the long travel on a KR2. Like I said both are just as good. In a b-29, yep, the Enola Gay, cables are used through out in long travel areas for controls. Juan Vega -----Original Message----- >From: Juan Vega >Sent: Aug 9, 2008 8:32 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeleron (sp?) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL > > >Pushrods are great. Cables are just as Great. Depends on the design parameters of the plane. How much dihedral, Speed of plane, force on ailerons. Weight constraints of the plane, etc.. Simple answer is, for an LSA 700 plane with a pronounced dihedral, at speeds below 180 knots, cable is perfect. You want to put push rods?, no harm done there either, if you can figure out the design for the wings with the 601's dehidral, and get over the more work needed to get rods correctly cut to size. > >Juan > >-----Original Message----- >>From: John REINKING >>Sent: Aug 9, 2008 7:24 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: Aeleron (sp?) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL >> >> >>Howdy, group >>I've been reading about using pushrods instead of cables for operating >>the aelerons. Will some of you with more experience than this novice >>mind discussing the pros and cons of pushrods v. cable in this application. >>Am curious if the added weight of the pushrods would be a better >>longterm replacement for the normal stretching of control cables in this >>application. >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:55 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Zenith-List: A conversation on a plane A man boards an airplane and takes his seat. As he settles in, he glances up and sees a very beautiful woman boarding the plane. He soon realizes she is heading straight towards his seat, and a wave of nervous anticipation washes over him. Lo and behold, she takes the seat right beside his. Eager to strike up a conversation, he blurts out, Business trip or vacation? The woman turns, smiles and says, Business. Im going to the annual Nymphomaniac Convention in Chicago. The man swallows hard and is instantly crazed with excitement. Struggling to maintain his outward cool, he calmly asks, Whats your business role at this convention? Lecturer, she says. I use my experience to debunk some of the popular myths about sexuality. Really, he says. What myths are those? Well, she explains, one popular myth is that African American men are the most well endowed when, in fact, it is the Native American Indian who is most likely to possess that trait. Another popular myth is that French men are the best lovers, when actually its men of Jewish decent. Suddenly, the women becomes very embarrassed and blushes. I'm sorry, she says, I shouldnt be discussing this with you, I don't even know your name! Tonto, the man says as he extends his hand. Tonto Goldstein. Juan ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:32 PM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Aeleron (sp?) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL If cables are good enough of a DC-9 aileron and elevator system they are good enough for me ; ) A disadvantage of pushrods is the possibility of play in the rod ends becoming significant. Mooney has an AD on the control system for inspection and lubrication to prevent excess wear. They have a lot of rod ends! Ken Lilja ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:56 PM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Zenith-List: Flap or aileron next? I have finally finished the empennage and would like to know if starting the either the flaps or ailerons next (build order) would have any advantage. Wings will need me to access the garage which will take a ACT OF GOD/ /Ken Lilja ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 6k2-3 side fairings From: jaybannist@cs.com Chris, I had the same problem. I had already made the console shown on the drawings, but, of course, that one won't work with the dual sticks. There was no drawing, so I just made one that works for me. I can send photos if you want. Just ask. Jay in Dallas Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: chris Sinfield Sent: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 4:35 pm Subject: Zenith-List: 6k2-3 side fairings Hi Gang I just replaced my center stick with a set of dual sticks. I received the 3 pages of dual stick drawings from zenith with the kit, what I did not get was a drawing for the different side fairing and fuel selector panel area. Is there a different drawing of this side panel to allow for the cutout of the duel stick. I see lots of pictures/ photos of the QB kits with it and the parts catalog shows the larger side panel on 6-XN-24. its the weekend and so I cannot ring the factory and ask? Was I missing something?? My original plans just show the old side fairing and old center console on page 6-K-2 Do I need to ask for something different Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197563#197563 ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:12 PM PST US From: "Carlos Sa" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap or aileron next? Hopefully you are in good terms with God...? Sorry, couldn't resist. Actually, I could, just decided not to. Good luck ! do not archive Carlos 2008/8/9 Ken Lilja > > I have finally finished the empennage and would like to know if starting > the either the flaps or ailerons next (build order) would have any > advantage. Wings will need me to access the garage which will take a ACT OF > GOD/ > > /Ken Lilja > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:15 PM PST US From: Larry Hursh Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A conversation on a plane --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Juan Vega wrote: From: Juan Vega Subject: Zenith-List: A conversation on a plane A man boards an airplane and takes his seat. As he settles in, he glances u p and sees a very beautiful woman boarding the plane. -You are now on my bl ocked list.-=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:13 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 6k2-3 side fairings From: "chris Sinfield" yes please, photos would be great, measurements around the duel stick area would be even better?. I wonder why Zenith don't have this as a drawing since it is what is on the QB kits.. Chris.. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197638#197638 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:59 PM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap or aileron next? Both my wife and my mother in law are Methodist ministers. The short answer is I better be! ; ) Ken Lilja Carlos Sa wrote: > Hopefully you are in good terms with God...? > > Sorry, couldn't resist. Actually, I could, just decided not to. Good > luck ! > > do not archive > > > Carlos > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:32 PM PST US From: Larry Hursh Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap or aileron next? --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Ken Lilja wrote: From: Ken Lilja Subject: Zenith-List: Flap or aileron next? I have finally finished the empennage and would like to know if starting the either the flaps or ailerons next (build order) would have any advantage. Wings will need me to access the garage which will take a ACT OF GOD/ /Ken Lilja Ken, If your space is as limited as you say, you would be best to do either the ailerons or the flaps.Either one would be fine because you have to do them eventually. They very simple constructionand very straight forward. I commented to my wife this afternoon how I can't imagine anyone STRUGGLING with buildingin a single car garage or having to share a 2 car with your spouse. I got VERY LUCKY. Mywife OFFERED to give up her space so my entire 2 1/2 garage is now my shop. Best of luck to you and happy building!Tailwinds and Blue Skies Always,DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:34 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap or aileron next? I did my flaps and ailerons before starting the wings. I would recommend it, they require a fair amount of work space as you build them but don't require very much storage space after they are done. On Aug 9, 2008, at 10:07 PM, Ken Lilja wrote: > > > > I have finally finished the empennage and would like to know if > starting the either the flaps or ailerons next (build order) would > have any advantage. Wings will need me to access the garage which > will take a ACT OF GOD/ > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:20 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 650 and BSR chute I agree with you, Dave. A chute changes all those things. That's why I chose to lose 35+ pounds to offset the extra BRS weight. Who knows, but that 35 pounds *off* of me and *into* my plane in the form of a chute just might save my life in either of two different ways: my health or my hide! I'm happy with my solution, and you are right when you say it isn't a simple decision. Larry Winger On Sat, Aug 9, 2008 at 5:36 PM, Dave Austin wrote: > No problems at all. But the decision brings in may other factors. The > chute uses up significant load carrying capacity. It increases fuel > consumption and decreases range, decreases safety factor of the design, > climb speed, lowers manouvering speed, and Vne, increases stall speed, > landing speed, best glide speed etc.. > So the question is: do I want all those things, with their inherent risk, > or do I want the chute in case of engine or airframe failure. > Nobody ever said it was simple. > And I respect everyones' decision. > Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:07 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flap or aileron next? I built my Zodiac in a 8 1/2' X 24' cargo trailer and stored the finished parts hanging from the rafters in my father's garage. You can build the plane in a very limited space as long as you have a good place to store the finished sub-assemblies. I built the fuselage last as that would was the largest single sub-assembly. when the fuselage was complete, I hauled every thing to a hangar for final assembly. On Aug 9, 2008, at 11:19 PM, Larry Hursh wrote: > > > --- On Sat, 8/9/08, Ken Lilja wrote: > From: Ken Lilja > Subject: Zenith-List: Flap or aileron next? > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Saturday, August 9, 2008, 9:07 PM > > > > I have finally finished the empennage and would like to know if > starting > the either the flaps or ailerons next (build order) would have any > advantage. Wings will need me to access the garage which will take a > ACT OF GOD/ > > /Ken Lilja > Ken, > If your space is as limited as you say, you would be best to do > either the ailerons or the flaps. > Either one would be fine because you have to do them eventually. > They very simple construction > and very straight forward. > I commented to my wife this afternoon how I can't imagine anyone > STRUGGLING with building > in a single car garage or having to share a 2 car with your spouse. > I got VERY LUCKY. My > wife OFFERED to give up her space so my entire 2 1/2 garage is now > my shop. > Best of luck to you and happy building! > Tailwinds and Blue Skies Always, > DO NOT ARCHIVE > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:56 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A conversation on a plane Juan Please include "do not archive" with your old, stale, tasteless jokes. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2008 8:53 PM Subject: Zenith-List: A conversation on a plane > > > A man boards an airplane and takes his seat. As he settles in, he glances > up and sees a very beautiful woman boarding the plane. He soon realizes > she is heading straight towards his seat, and a wave of nervous > anticipation washes over him. Lo and behold, she takes the seat right > beside his. Eager to strike up a conversation, he blurts out, Business > trip or vacation? > > The woman turns, smiles and says, Business. Im going to the annual > Nymphomaniac Convention in Chicago. > > The man swallows hard and is instantly crazed with excitement. Struggling > to maintain his outward cool, he calmly asks, Whats your business role > at this convention? > > Lecturer, she says. I use my experience to debunk some of the popular > myths about sexuality. > > Really, he says. What myths are those? > > Well, she explains, one popular myth is that African American men are > the most well endowed when, in fact, it is the Native American Indian who > is most likely to possess that trait. Another popular myth is that French > men are the best lovers, when actually its men of Jewish decent. > > Suddenly, the women becomes very embarrassed and blushes. I'm sorry, she > says, I shouldnt be discussing this with you, I don't even know your > name! > > Tonto, the man says as he extends his hand. Tonto Goldstein. > > > Juan > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > 4:55 PM > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:20 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Aeleron (sp) Push Rod Question/ CH601XL Push -pull control tubes are widely used in all kinds of aircraft. Helicopters almost universally. Some have adjustable rod ends, some (Bell 206 helicopters) have some non adjustable. Saves time when the ship is returned to service. Push pull rods have a more precise feel with no slop. You don't need to keep tuning them like a guitar. You should keep all bearings and bushings in good order and lubed. I count five pivots from the torque tube to the aileron horn. With .010 slop in each, it would amount to .050 total. You would want the 601XL inboard ends to be adjustable. Looking at some old 1965 vintage drawings for a 1500 lb 200MPH low wing all metal monoplane, The aileron push - pull tube is either 1"X.035" 6061 T6 tube with swaged ends, (a little welding req.) or 1"X.035 2024 T4 with a threaded alum insert riveted in with AN 470's for the adjustable rod end. Easiest. Looks to be about an 8' run. Rod ends are attached with AN 470 rivets. Appears to be a little weight saving since you eliminate the balance cable. You may or may not detect the reduced friction. There appears to be an opportunity to run the tube through the rear lightening holes in the rear ribs and install inboard on the torque tube. The aileron bellcrank end is also installed straight forward. A little elegance would be to put a duplicate of the bell crank inspection panel out on the wing tip. If you ever need to remove the tube for whatever reason, like sloppy bearings, it could be disconnected at both ends and slid out the tip. Other wise it would mean removing the wing. These old drawings also feature a 10' long elevator push-pull tube made of 2" alum tube but that's another story. No easy way to avoid rudder cables but its been done. But why? You will still need a cable tension gauge to check what ever cables are installed. $750.00. Some reports say that tension is lost in as little as 27 hours. Anyway, see CH's last letter. Look in the archives because someone has already done aileron push-pull tubes. Did you know that "Aileron" means little wing in French? Questions? Contact me off list. Bob Dingley 601XL/Lyc Do not archive ************** Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. 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