Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:00 AM - Re: First flight N601EX (DaveG601XL)
2. 06:50 AM - Re: First flight N601EX (Juan Vega)
3. 07:00 AM - Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Gig Giacona)
4. 07:17 AM - Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Jay Maynard)
5. 07:20 AM - Re: Building SpaceBuilding Space in my Living Room (John C Edwards)
6. 07:23 AM - First Flight Procedures. (LONG) (Gig Giacona)
7. 07:43 AM - Re: Building SpaceBuilding Space in my Living Room (Gig Giacona)
8. 08:18 AM - Re: A conversation on a plane (japhillipsga@aol.com)
9. 08:37 AM - Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Juan Vega)
10. 08:40 AM - Re: Middle Balance Fairlead (Juan Vega)
11. 08:45 AM - Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Gig Giacona)
12. 08:47 AM - Zenith Aircraft's Sebastian Heintz Speaks PodCast (Gig Giacona)
13. 09:02 AM - Re: 650 and BSR chute (mfazio)
14. 09:21 AM - Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Jay Maynard)
15. 09:49 AM - Chat Room Reminder (George Race)
16. 10:35 AM - Flaps or no Flaps (john butterfield)
17. 10:58 AM - Re: Flaps or no Flaps (John Marzulli)
18. 11:05 AM - Re: First Flight Procedures. (LONG) (DaveG601XL)
19. 12:23 PM - Re: Flaps or no Flaps (Paul Mulwitz)
20. 12:52 PM - Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Juan Vega)
21. 12:55 PM - Re: Re: 650 and BSR chute (Juan Vega)
22. 12:55 PM - Re: Flaps or no Flaps (Juan Vega)
23. 01:03 PM - Re: Flaps or no Flaps (Gig Giacona)
24. 01:15 PM - Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Jay Maynard)
25. 01:22 PM - Re: Re: Flaps or no Flaps (Craig Payne)
26. 01:32 PM - Y stick with single throttle (Richard Vetterli)
27. 01:34 PM - Re: Flaps or no Flaps (Gig Giacona)
28. 01:39 PM - Re: Y stick with single throttle (Gig Giacona)
29. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Flaps or no Flaps (Jay Maynard)
30. 02:01 PM - Re: Building SpaceBuilding Space in my Living Room (MaxNr@aol.com)
31. 02:05 PM - Re: Re: Flaps or no Flaps (Craig Payne)
32. 02:12 PM - Re: Y stick with single throttle (Bryan Martin)
33. 03:24 PM - Re: Y stick with single throttle (Bill Naumuk)
34. 03:54 PM - Re: First Flight Procedures. (LONG) (n801bh@netzero.com)
35. 04:03 PM - Re: Y stick with single throttle (n801bh@netzero.com)
36. 04:11 PM - Re: Y stick with single throttle (Bryan Martin)
37. 05:09 PM - Re: message for Neil Hulin (kkinney)
38. 05:28 PM - Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Roger & Lina Hill)
39. 07:16 PM - Re: Y stick with single throttle (leinad)
40. 07:27 PM - Re: First flight N601EX (leinad)
41. 07:37 PM - Re: Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Juan Vega)
42. 08:09 PM - sealing forward skins to firewall (Brad Cohen)
43. 09:10 PM - Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (Leo Gates)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First flight N601EX |
Dave,
Congratulations! I had my first flight almost 3 weeks ago and I am still riding
on cloud nine. Now do a good overall inspection, vacuum out the ever-present
chips that got loosened out of their hiding places, check your prop nut torques
and get back up in the air. Repeat your first flight plan to re-affirm the
characteristics that you forgot because you were so darned excited to be flying.
Way to go!
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, first flight 7/24/08.
In Phase I flight test.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197854#197854
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First flight N601EX |
congrads! take lots of pictures! Hope to see at one of the flyins!
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: "n801bh@netzero.com" <n801bh@netzero.com>
>Sent: Aug 11, 2008 12:13 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First flight N601EX
>
>
>Congrats to you,,,,,,
>do not archive
>
>Ben Haas
>N801BH
>www.haaspowerair.com
>
>-- "David Brown" <dbrown@avecc.com> wrote:
>
>Hi List,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
/>
>
>Yesterday, Saturday Aug. 10, at 1:08 PM , after 3 years and 4 months N601EX took
off uneventfully, climbed to about 2000 ft and spend about an hour doing turns,
slow flight, near stalls, climbs and descents and returned for a very smooth
landing. Needless to say I wasnt quite as calm as the airplane was.
>I want to thank everyone on the list, I didnt post that often but I read the list
almost everyday.
>What was amazing was during each phase that I went through the list subject was
what I needed, especially DAR inspection, practical flight test, first flight.
>
>Thanks again,
>David
>601XL JAB3300
>
>
>____________________________________________________________
>Click here to find the satellite television package that meets your needs.
>http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4tvKJ79Tg3Gh2zmYLg3KI1mzvFYUBkFpHFJYKN7Jlhs4zVkW/
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Flutter (Non-Zenith) |
Since there has been so much talk about flutter and there may be builders here
who don't 100% know what it is I thought I'd post this video.
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Movie/PA-30/640x/EM-0098-01.mov
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197869#197869
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) |
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 07:00:26AM -0700, Gig Giacona wrote:
> Since there has been so much talk about flutter and there may be builders
> here who don't 100% know what it is I thought I'd post this video.
>
> http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Movie/PA-30/640x/EM-0098-01.mov
A quick Google turned up two NTSB reports for that tail number. One was from
the day of the video. The aircraft landed safely after the flutter incident,
but suffered an overload failure of the stabilator (duh!). It was apparently
repaired and flew for 32 more years, as the other report was from a fatal
accident on December 1, 1998: it was destroyed, killing the pilot, in a fuel
exhaustion accident in West Virginia.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Building SpaceBuilding Space in my Living Room |
Yes building in my living room is also possible. i have wide double
french doors and a vaulted ceiling to get it out after Corvair engine
and all fuselage appendages (tail feathers) are attached. My project
(701) is here....and helps keep me motivated by being in my face every
day when i wake up! Just my opinion. <mykitlog.com/kapowsin>
John Edwards in the Seattle area...
PS need to update progress of last two months soon. I have not been
goofing off!
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | First Flight Procedures. (LONG) |
Congratulations to all that have completed first flight. You have done something
that few people will ever do, Build and fly an airplane that you built yourself.
As I draw nearer this point in the process I read with ever growing anticipation
of the day I want to do it.
There is one thing I've noticed in many of the "First Flight Reports' though. It
seems that many people aren't following the procedures out lined in AC 90-89A.
While this AC lays out a complete test program for your aircraft and I think
we would all be well advised to read it all and use all of its procedures the
first flight procedures I think are even more important so I'm going to post
them them below.
AC 90-89A is available on the EAA site and a hard copy can be ordered from the
FAA or your local FSDO.
1. OBJECTIVE. To perform a series of tests to develop data that will ensure a safe
landing.
a. The First Test Flight.
(1) After take-off, climb to 3,000 feet above ground level (AGL) and level off.
Reduce power slowly. Complete the cruise checklist items. Following the FLIGHT
TEST PLAN, circle the airport or emergency field as the engine performance is
being monitored.
(2) Limit the cruise speed to no more than 1.5 the predicted stall speed of the
aircraft. This will reduce the chances of flutter. If the engine appears to be
operating smoothly, try testing the flight controls.
(3) With the airspeed being monitored, each control input should be gentle and
small. Start with the rudder first. Yaw the nose of the aircraft 5 degrees left
and right. Note the response. Raise the aircraft's nose 3 degrees up, note the
response. After the aircraft is stabilized, level off and try three degrees
nose down, trim, and note the response. Try a gentle bank of no more than 5 degrees
to the left, then one to the right. If the aircraft is stable and is operating
smoothly, try a few 90 degree clearing turns, followed by two 360 degree
turns: one to the left and one to the right at a bank angle of 10 degrees.
(4) If the aircraft is responding to the prescribed specifications, increase the
bank angle in succeeding turns to 20 degrees. If no problems are encountered,
climb to 5,000 feet AGL (using the climb checklist and monitoring engine gauges),
level off, fly an imaginary landing pattern, and test the flaps. Do not
forget to announce every 5 to 10 minutes the aircraft's location, altitude, and
intentions. Practice approach to landing by descending to 4,000 feet AGL first,
then to 3,000 feet. Remember, use the descent checklist.
(5) During these maneuvers, control pressures should increase in proportion to
control deflection. If control pressure remains the same as control deflection
increases or if stick forces become lighter as control deflection increases,
the aircraft may have a stability problem. Avoid large control movements and land
as soon as possible.
(6) Remember to keep informing the tower/UNICOM/chase plane of what is happening.
For 10 minutes of anticipated flight time, plan a brief rest period for the
pilot. Fly straight and level, monitor the gauges, and enjoy the experience.
(7) At low cruise power setting, straight and level, observe how the aircraft trims
out. Do the "fixed" trim tabs on the rudder and aileron need adjustment?
Are the adjustable aileron and elevator trim control effective? Is the control
stick/yoke slightly forward of the mid-position in straight and level flight?
(8) Climb slowly back up to 5,000 feet. Two questions must be answered before landing:
(i) Is the aircraft controllable at low speeds?
(ii) What is the approximate stall speed?
(9) These questions can be answered with an approach to a stall maneuver. Do NOT
perform a FULL STALL check at this time!
(10) The necessity for an approach to a stall check is because it will help establish
a preliminary stall speed (V si ) in mph/knots so the approach speed for
landing can be calculated. Also, the pilot will have knowledge of the aircraft's
handling characteristics at low speed.
b. Suggested Procedure.
(1) Level off at altitude; make two clearing turns; stabilize airspeed, heading,
and altitude; apply carb heat; set the flaps in the landing configuration and
reduce power slowly to 900 rpm. TRIM. If, as is not uncommon on first flights,
the aircraft cannot be trimmed properly, the pilot can still proceed with the
check as long as the stick forces are not unusually heavy.
(2) With the aircraft airspeed approximately 1.4 mph/knots times (X) the predicted
stall speed, raise the nose slowly. It is desirable for the aircraft to start
decelerating slowly, about 1/2 mph/knot a second. A 30 mph/knot deceleration
at 1/2 mph/knot per second will take only a minute.
(3) As the aircraft slows down, note all the things that happen as the speed bleeds
off. Observe the changing nose attitude and how the stick force changes.
Keep the turn coordinator or turn and bank "ball" in the middle.
(4) Note how much rudder it takes to keep the ball centered. Every few seconds
make very small control inputs to check that the aircraft is operating in the
prescribed manner. If the aircraft does not respond to small control inputs --
and it should not be expected to respond as quickly as it did at higher speeds
-- make the inputs a little bit larger. Increase the amount of input progressively.
Do not simultaneously put in all three control inputs. Give particular
attention to the response to nose-down elevator inputs, which is necessary for
recovery.
(5) Notice any changes in flight characteristics and the speeds at which they take
place. Be especially alert for the onset of pre-stall buffet. Is the buffet
felt through the stick? Through the airframe? Though the seat of the pants?
Does the nose of the airplane want to rise or drop on its own? How strong is the
buffet? Is it continuous? Would it get the pilot's attention if they were concentrating
on something else?
NOTE: On some high performance aircraft and aircraft with unusual wing designs,
a pre-stall buffet may not exist and the stall may be abrupt and violent with
a large degree of wing drop.
(6) Keep making small control inputs at intervals to check the aircraft's responses.
At approximately 5 mph/knots before the predicted stall speed, or at the
first sign of a pre-stall buffet, note the airspeed and stop the test. Recover
and write down the pre-stall indicated airspeed. This airspeed should be the
reference stall speed for the first landing.
(7) The pre-stall recovery response should be a smooth and quick forward stick
movement. This response should be enough to reduce the angle of attack to the
point where the airplane is flying normally again.
(8) A wing drop would be unexpected so early in the approach to a stall, but if
it becomes necessary to raise a low wing do it with rudder, NOT OPPOSITE AILERON.
Use of ailerons at lower speed would increase the chances for a stall or
a sudden departure from controlled flight.
(9) There is no need to gain more airspeed than the extra few mph/knots to fly
out of a pre-stall condition. After returning to straight and level flight and
using the information learned, the pilot can practice a few more recoveries from
a pre-stall condition. Remember the aircraft will constantly be loosing altitude
so it is necessary to climb back up to 5,000 feet AGL to continue further
flight testing. Do not get so involved that the overall objective of the first
flight is lost -- which is getting the pilot and aircraft safely back on the
ground.
(10) The FLIGHT TEST PLAN for the first flight should call for a maximum of 1 hour
of actual flight time. This is to reduce pilot fatigue and the possibility
of an engine failure or airframe malfunction occurring due to vibration or construction
errors.
NOTE: The pilot may elect to make several practice approaches to landing at altitude
or low approaches to the active runway to get a solid understanding of the
lower airspeeds, aircraft attitude, and overall feel of the aircraft in the
landing configuration. Before each low approach at the airport, the tower/UNICOM/chase
plane should be advised of the pilot's intentions. Avoid other traffic
in the pattern, and use the landing checklist.
(11) When the pilot has completed all the tests called for by the FLIGHT TEST PLAN,
notify the tower/UNICOM/chase plane of the intent to land. Complete the landing
checklist before entering downwind. Keep all turns less than 20 degrees
of bank, but do not cross-control by using the rudder to move the nose. This
will increase the bank angle, which most pilots will correct by using opposite
aileron. If allowed to continue, and with back pressure on the stick, this will
result in a cross-control stall and a roll to a near vertical bank attitude
at the beginning of a spin with no altitude left for recovery.
(12) On final approach, the aircraft speed should be no less than 1.3 but no more
than 1.4 times the recorded "first flight" pre-stall speed. Homebuilt biplanes
(high drag) should use an approach speed of 1.5 x stall speed on landings.
(13) Landings, especially the first one in an amateur-built or kit plane, are always
exciting. Proceed slowly and do not over control. If the landing conditions
are not ideal, be prepared to go around.
(14) The actual touchdown should take place within the first 1,000 feet with braking
action being applied before the red (abort) flag marker on the runway.
(15) After taxiing in, secure the aircraft, debrief the flight with members of
the team, then together perform a careful post-flight inspection of the aircraft.
NOTE: Remember to allow enough time to absorb what has been learned about the aircraft's
performance and the pilot's and ground crew's responses to it.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197875#197875
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Building SpaceBuilding Space in my Living Room |
Is is safe to assume you aren't married? :)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
cte82621(at)centurytel.ne wrote:
> Yes building in my living room is also possible.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197882#197882
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: A conversation on a plane |
Larry, you just have to lighten up a little. We old vets fought for your freedom
and right to agree or disagree, but life is really too short to get wrapped
up things we can't change or affect. There is plenty of space for Juan and his
attempt to humor us. I've met Juan. Had a few beers with him one evening?at FnS.
He is a tall, good looking young fellow, a little brass, but smart and deeply
interested in building and flying. You would probably like him if you met
him. By blocking him and worrying about such you have missed an opportunity. This
airplane building hobby ( remember that is what this is) of ours is a big
tent with lots of room for everyone with an interest. Now look what you've made
me do. I've wasted precious building time reading your e-mail and writing this.
Best regards, Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Hursh <skyridersbn@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 1:39 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A conversation on a plane
Sorry Bill, but I disagree with you.? If I want this type of "humor" I will subscribe
to it.? I don't expect it, nor want it when I'm trying to learn something
about the product I'm building.? Oh I DO have a sense of humor....just not
this type and ESPECIALLY?on here.?
?
Regards
?
Larry H
?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
--- On Sun, 8/10/08, JAPhillipsGA@aol.com <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com> wrote:
From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com <JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: A conversation on a plane
Juan, I really enjoyed this post. It has everything. It really raised my Sunday
morning blahs. Keep it up and everybody will be as happy as you are. Best regards,
Bill of Georgia
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) |
That accident was not caused by Aileron flutter, but more a structural flutter
on the entire Horiz Stab design. Apples and Oranges. So far (From my mouth
to Gods' ear) they have not seen a 601 full wing flutter, but a control surface
flutter, and that pointed to way loose cables. But still no proof it cause
any of the accidents.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
>Sent: Aug 11, 2008 10:16 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flutter (Non-Zenith)
>
>
>On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 07:00:26AM -0700, Gig Giacona wrote:
>> Since there has been so much talk about flutter and there may be builders
>> here who don't 100% know what it is I thought I'd post this video.
>>
>> http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Movie/PA-30/640x/EM-0098-01.mov
>
>A quick Google turned up two NTSB reports for that tail number. One was from
>the day of the video. The aircraft landed safely after the flutter incident,
>but suffered an overload failure of the stabilator (duh!). It was apparently
>repaired and flew for 32 more years, as the other report was from a fatal
>accident on December 1, 1998: it was destroyed, killing the pilot, in a fuel
>exhaustion accident in West Virginia.
>--
>Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
>http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
>Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
>AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Middle Balance Fairlead |
I had the issue, Just move it to where it does not touch anything. No need for
the perfect spot mathematicall gyrations, just move it to where is does not
touch other cables.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: John Davis <johnd@data-tech.com>
>Sent: Aug 10, 2008 8:06 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Middle Balance Fairlead
>
>Hi All,
>
>I'm working on finishing the rigging on my quickbuild 601XL and have a
>problem with the middle balance fairlead. On my quickbuild it appears to be
>mounted too high on its support such that the balance cable contacts the
>right rudder cable where it passes under it.
>
>Looking at the plans (6-b-22) it shows the balance cable some distance below
>the rudder cable. I have looked at that page several times now and cant find
>any details on how high the balance fairlead should be mounted above the
>bottom skin.
>
>Has anyone else encountered this issue or how high did you mount your
>fairlead ?
>
>Thanks,
>John Davis
>601XL QB & Jab 3300
>Burnsville, NC
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) |
Juan, Do you have a video of control flutter you can post? If so please do.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
> That accident was not caused by Aileron flutter, but more a structural flutter
on the entire Horiz Stab design. Apples and Oranges. So far (From my mouth
to Gods' ear) they have not seen a 601 full wing flutter, but a control surface
flutter, and that pointed to way loose cables. But still no proof it cause
any of the accidents.
>
> Juan
>
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197899#197899
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Zenith Aircraft's Sebastian Heintz Speaks PodCast |
At EAA AirVenture 2008, Kitplanes Editor-in-Chief Marc Cook sought out some of
the most influential people in the homebuilt sector and asked their opinion on
the FAA's revisions to the 51% Rule. In the latest installment of this series,
we listen in on Marc's conversation with Zenith Aircraft's Sebastian Heintz.
I haven't had time to listen to it yet but here's the link: http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1184-full.html#198571
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197902#197902
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 650 and BSR chute |
Well, I suppose if I had known a simple question about the placement of chute in
the 650 would have started such a tiff I would have refrained from posting.
I was interested in the how mechanically a chute might be installed in the 650,
plain and simple.
As I mentioned in my first post I believe in the design and I personally do not
think a chute is necessary. If I were interested in killing myself I can think
of more efficient ways to do so rather than taking several years and lots of
money building an airplane. I do recognize the fact that I am a low time pilot
and am well aware of how little I know, adding an experimental aircraft to the
equation further compounds the problems. I believe that training is what is
going to keep you out of trouble and get you out of a jam when necessary. If
a bad situation does exceed my limited piloting skills having another option in
my back pocket doesn't seem like such a bad deal so it is something to consider.
Adding a chute as with many other customizations present tradeoffs which each builder
has to personally rationalize and accept. I certainly do not wish to argue
the merits of chutes, push-pull tubes, cables, balanced ailerons, etc. as
everyone has their own opinion and are entitled to them. I've been lurking on
this list for a while now and truly appreciate the information that is shared
but have grown weary of the bickering. I read several other lists and do not notice
the same type of behavior. We all share a common interest so not quite sure
why we can't be more civil to each other in this forum. This post is not an
attack on any person so please no more flames.
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197903#197903
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) |
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:37:25AM -0400, Juan Vega wrote:
> That accident was not caused by Aileron flutter, but more a structural
> flutter on the entire Horiz Stab design.
Neither Gig nor I said it was. I'm not going to speak for Gig, but I thought
it was a great demonstration of just what flutter - which we've all been
talking about for months now - really is. That's all.
FWIW, I now reach behind the seat and twang the aileron cables during
preflight...
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Chat Room Reminder |
Please join us for our Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM
Eastern Time.
<blocked::blocked::http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/>
http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
George
CH-701 - N73EX
Do Not Archive
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Flaps or no Flaps |
hi list
after reading the message regarding the sale of the
flap motor, i wondered what the advantages of having
flaps over having them fixed. I wonder if it would
make the wing stronger and if so, how would you "fix
them in place". I drove an older bonanza for years,
(E35) and almost never used the flaps. For the few
miles per hour you reduce, i preferred the simple
standard approach. If fixed flaps would make the wing
a little stronger, coupled with the savings in weight,
i am temped to remove them. Any comments as to this
action would be appreciated(sp?)
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaps or no Flaps |
"Fixing" the flaps would not give you any extra rigidity in the wing. The
701 uses flaperons down the full length of the wing. The "flap" action is
mixed into the aileron controls, so you could reduce some complexity
*POSSIBLY* by not rigging the flaps, but I would not suggest it.
The flaps can help you really slow down the plane for some incredible
landings.
Good luck and DO NOT ARCHIVE
John Marzulli
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
http://www.GenevieveMarzulli.org/
http://www.JohnMarzulli.net/
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 10:28 AM, john butterfield
<jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>wrote:
> jdbutterfield@yahoo.com>
>
> hi list
> after reading the message regarding the sale of the
> flap motor, i wondered what the advantages of having
> flaps over having them fixed. I wonder if it would
> make the wing stronger and if so, how would you "fix
> them in place". I drove an older bonanza for years,
> (E35) and almost never used the flaps. For the few
> miles per hour you reduce, i preferred the simple
> standard approach. If fixed flaps would make the wing
> a little stronger, coupled with the savings in weight,
> i am temped to remove them. Any comments as to this
> action would be appreciated(sp?)
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedures. (LONG) |
Gig,
Good reminder to the board. I been following this guide and think it is about the most informative thing the FAA has ever published. Since this is a general publication meant to cover most homebuilding instances, I noticed that they quite strongly urge that you not do a full stall on the first flight, only going to pre-stall buffet. This is not bad advice by any means since it advises caution (i.e. very good advice for BD-5 builders). On the other hand, Chris Heintz does not hesitate in saying to fly his designs to stall on he first flight. (http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/ht-86-5.html) I whole-heartedly agree and did so on my first flight last month. It is a big confidence builder to see just how tame an event they are, especially on the already stress-filled first flight.
Good luck and clear skies!
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL, first flight 7/24/08.
In Phase I flight test.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197933#197933
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaps or no Flaps |
Hi John,
First, let me say I don't think fixing the flaps in place would make
much difference in the wing strength. The flaps are attached with a
piano hinge and probably present the same strength (give or take) no
matter what position they are in.
About flap use, I would much prefer a plane with flaps to one without
them. They provide a number of different features that you just
don't get with no flaps. This includes slower landing, slower
takeoff, and steeper descent for landing. None of these things
matter if you only operate from 10,000 foot paved runways. However,
to get the most performance on small or soft fields the flaps are
indispensable.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 10:28 AM 8/11/2008, you wrote:
>hi list
>after reading the message regarding the sale of the
>flap motor, i wondered what the advantages of having
>flaps over having them fixed. I wonder if it would
>make the wing stronger and if so, how would you "fix
>them in place". I drove an older bonanza for years,
>(E35) and almost never used the flaps. For the few
>miles per hour you reduce, i preferred the simple
>standard approach. If fixed flaps would make the wing
>a little stronger, coupled with the savings in weight,
>i am temped to remove them.
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) |
Agreed, and understand. Hope you are enjoying the flying in your plane. Hope
you are wearing something cooler than the Tron suit.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
>Sent: Aug 11, 2008 12:18 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flutter (Non-Zenith)
>
>
>On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 11:37:25AM -0400, Juan Vega wrote:
>> That accident was not caused by Aileron flutter, but more a structural
>> flutter on the entire Horiz Stab design.
>
>Neither Gig nor I said it was. I'm not going to speak for Gig, but I thought
>it was a great demonstration of just what flutter - which we've all been
>talking about for months now - really is. That's all.
>
>FWIW, I now reach behind the seat and twang the aileron cables during
>preflight...
>--
>Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
>http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
>Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
>AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)
>
>
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: 650 and BSR chute |
Mr. FAzio,
When are you coming down to come flying again!
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: mfazio <mfazio01@comcast.net>
>Sent: Aug 11, 2008 11:59 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 650 and BSR chute
>
>
>Well, I suppose if I had known a simple question about the placement of chute
in the 650 would have started such a tiff I would have refrained from posting.
I was interested in the how mechanically a chute might be installed in the 650,
plain and simple.
>
>As I mentioned in my first post I believe in the design and I personally do not
think a chute is necessary. If I were interested in killing myself I can think
of more efficient ways to do so rather than taking several years and lots of
money building an airplane. I do recognize the fact that I am a low time pilot
and am well aware of how little I know, adding an experimental aircraft to
the equation further compounds the problems. I believe that training is what is
going to keep you out of trouble and get you out of a jam when necessary. If
a bad situation does exceed my limited piloting skills having another option
in my back pocket doesn't seem like such a bad deal so it is something to consider.
>
>Adding a chute as with many other customizations present tradeoffs which each
builder has to personally rationalize and accept. I certainly do not wish to argue
the merits of chutes, push-pull tubes, cables, balanced ailerons, etc. as
everyone has their own opinion and are entitled to them. I've been lurking on
this list for a while now and truly appreciate the information that is shared
but have grown weary of the bickering. I read several other lists and do not
notice the same type of behavior. We all share a common interest so not quite
sure why we can't be more civil to each other in this forum. This post is not
an attack on any person so please no more flames.
>
>do not archive
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197903#197903
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaps or no Flaps |
I agree with Paul,
to add from a purely function aspect, this is what I get from my flaps:
1- it greatly increases the visability over the nose at landing;
2- it does slow the plane down at landing;
3- it does truly allow for increased lift at high gross weights, given take offs
from short and grassy feilds;
4- Resale, got to think that when building as we have the word experimental stacked
against us in the event of resale.
Juan Vega 427JV
-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
>Sent: Aug 11, 2008 3:20 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flaps or no Flaps
>
>
>Hi John,
>
>First, let me say I don't think fixing the flaps in place would make
>much difference in the wing strength. The flaps are attached with a
>piano hinge and probably present the same strength (give or take) no
>matter what position they are in.
>
>About flap use, I would much prefer a plane with flaps to one without
>them. They provide a number of different features that you just
>don't get with no flaps. This includes slower landing, slower
>takeoff, and steeper descent for landing. None of these things
>matter if you only operate from 10,000 foot paved runways. However,
>to get the most performance on small or soft fields the flaps are
>indispensable.
>
>Paul
>XL getting close
>do not archive
>
>
>At 10:28 AM 8/11/2008, you wrote:
>>hi list
>>after reading the message regarding the sale of the
>>flap motor, i wondered what the advantages of having
>>flaps over having them fixed. I wonder if it would
>>make the wing stronger and if so, how would you "fix
>>them in place". I drove an older bonanza for years,
>>(E35) and almost never used the flaps. For the few
>>miles per hour you reduce, i preferred the simple
>>standard approach. If fixed flaps would make the wing
>>a little stronger, coupled with the savings in weight,
>>i am temped to remove them.
>
>
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaps or no Flaps |
Flaps are your friends they give you options that you don't have when they aren't
there.
When I took my first flight in a 601XL at the Zenith Factory with Nick at the controls
he used full flaps and the landing was so short that I asked if this plane
can do that why do you go to the trouble of building the STOL.
I will use at least 50% of the flaps 90% of the time once my plane is built. Slower
is better on landing because of a simple bit of physics. The force that is
created by landing is a function of the square of the velocity.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197964#197964
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) |
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 03:49:27PM -0400, Juan Vega wrote:
> Hope you are enjoying the flying in your plane. Hope you are wearing
> something cooler than the Tron suit.
I'm getting a lot of use out of it, and having a lot of fun in the
process...I've put just under 70 hours on it since I took delivery.
The TRON costume is quite cool, actually; spandex is a lousy insulator, so
I'm cold if it's much below 70 degrees. I've flown in it once (for a
newspaper story that should be coming out Wednesday), although I wear a
T-shirt and jeans most of the time.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaps or no Flaps |
Also if the plane will be flown with a Sport Pilot license there is the
(theoretical) question of whether an XL without flaps can meet the LSA stall
limits. But as best I can tell confirming that your experimental aircraft
actually meets the LSA specs is an honor system.
-- Craig
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Y stick with single throttle |
I'm not very happy with the dual throttle linkage on
my XL, as it just feels mushy and not very precise.
I'm thinking of switching to a single throttle on the
pilot side only. Most of my passengers are non-pilots
and if I'm incapacitated in an emergency, reaching
across for the throttle would be the least of their
worries. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Rich Vetterli
601XL/Corvair
Engine running and currently finishing up the canopy.
Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaps or no Flaps |
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> Also if the plane will be flown with a Sport Pilot license there is the
> (theoretical) question of whether an XL without flaps can meet the LSA stall
> limits. But as best I can tell confirming that your experimental aircraft
> actually meets the LSA specs is an honor system.
>
> -- Craig
While there was at one time in the LSA proposal a maximum stall speed "in landing
configuration" they changed it in the final regulation. Here is how it reads
now.
(4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use of
lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum
certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity.
By " lift-enhancing devices" they really mean flaps.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197974#197974
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Y stick with single throttle |
I'd say go for it UNLESS you ever plan to train for a higher rating in the aircraft.
Most instructors aren't going to teach train you in a plane where they can't
get to the throttle.
richvetterli(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm not very happy with the dual throttle linkage on
> my XL, as it just feels mushy and not very precise.
> I'm thinking of switching to a single throttle on the
> pilot side only. Most of my passengers are non-pilots
> and if I'm incapacitated in an emergency, reaching
> across for the throttle would be the least of their
> worries. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Rich Vetterli
> 601XL/Corvair
> Engine running and currently finishing up the canopy.
> Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197978#197978
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaps or no Flaps |
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 02:22:15PM -0600, Craig Payne wrote:
> Also if the plane will be flown with a Sport Pilot license there is the
> (theoretical) question of whether an XL without flaps can meet the LSA stall
> limits.
Sure it can: the LSA speed requirement is a stall speed of 45 knots -
without flaps.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!)
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Building SpaceBuilding Space in my Living Room |
I tried re covering a wing in the Bachelor Officer Quarters. The project got
thrown out and I almost followed it.
Bob
Do not archive
**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in
your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flaps or no Flaps |
My bad memory I guess. I recalled that the flaps were included in the XL's
design (in contrast to the HDS) to meet the LSA spec.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 2:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flaps or no Flaps
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
> Also if the plane will be flown with a Sport Pilot license there is the
> (theoretical) question of whether an XL without flaps can meet the LSA
stall
> limits. But as best I can tell confirming that your experimental aircraft
> actually meets the LSA specs is an honor system.
>
> -- Craig
While there was at one time in the LSA proposal a maximum stall speed "in
landing configuration" they changed it in the final regulation. Here is how
it reads now.
(4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use
of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the
aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of
gravity.
By " lift-enhancing devices" they really mean flaps.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197974#197974
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Y stick with single throttle |
That's the way I have mine set up. I've sat in the passenger seat and
found that it's not difficult to reach over to the throttle from
there. I've never actually flown it from the right seat though.
On Aug 11, 2008, at 4:32 PM, Richard Vetterli wrote:
> >
>
> I'm not very happy with the dual throttle linkage on
> my XL, as it just feels mushy and not very precise.
> I'm thinking of switching to a single throttle on the
> pilot side only. Most of my passengers are non-pilots
> and if I'm incapacitated in an emergency, reaching
> across for the throttle would be the least of their
> worries. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Rich Vetterli
> 601XL/Corvair
> Engine running and currently finishing up the canopy.
> Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Y stick with single throttle |
Why not put it in the middle of the panel, like on most certificated
aircraft?
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Martin" <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Y stick with single throttle
>
> That's the way I have mine set up. I've sat in the passenger seat and
> found that it's not difficult to reach over to the throttle from there.
> I've never actually flown it from the right seat though.
>
> On Aug 11, 2008, at 4:32 PM, Richard Vetterli wrote:
>
>> <richvetterli@yahoo.com
>> >
>>
>> I'm not very happy with the dual throttle linkage on
>> my XL, as it just feels mushy and not very precise.
>> I'm thinking of switching to a single throttle on the
>> pilot side only. Most of my passengers are non-pilots
>> and if I'm incapacitated in an emergency, reaching
>> across for the throttle would be the least of their
>> worries. Any thoughts?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rich Vetterli
>> 601XL/Corvair
>> Engine running and currently finishing up the canopy.
>> Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
>>
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
> do not archive.
>
>
>
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First Flight Procedures. (LONG) |
If all goes well then that checklist is ok..... Good luck on all going w
ell, <G>..
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
Congratulations to all that have completed first flight. You have done s
omething that few people will ever do, Build and fly an airplane that yo
u built yourself. As I draw nearer this point in the process I read with
ever growing anticipation of the day I want to do it.
There is one thing I've noticed in many of the "First Flight Reports' th
ough. It seems that many people aren't following the procedures out line
d in AC 90-89A. While this AC lays out a complete test program for your
aircraft and I think we would all be well advised to read it all and use
all of its procedures the first flight procedures I think are even more
important so I'm going to post them them below.
AC 90-89A is available on the EAA site and a hard copy can be ordered fr
om the FAA or your local FSDO.
1. OBJECTIVE. To perform a series of tests to develop data that will ens
ure a safe landing.
a. The First Test Flight.
(1) After take-off, climb to 3,000 feet above ground level (AGL) and lev
el off. Reduce power slowly. Complete the cruise checklist items. Follow
ing the FLIGHT TEST PLAN, circle the airport or emergency field as the e
ngine performance is being monitored.
(2) Limit the cruise speed to no more than 1.5 the predicted stall speed
of the aircraft. This will reduce the chances of flutter. If the engine
appears to be operating smoothly, try testing the flight controls.
(3) With the airspeed being monitored, each control input should be gent
le and small. Start with the rudder first. Yaw the nose of the aircraft
5 degrees left and right. Note the response. Raise the aircraft's nose 3
degrees up, note the response. After the aircraft is stabilized, level
off and try three degrees nose down, trim, and note the response. Try a
gentle bank of no more than 5 degrees to the left, then one to the right
. If the aircraft is stable and is operating smoothly, try a few 90 degr
ee clearing turns, followed by two 360 degree turns: one to the left and
one to the right at a bank angle of 10 degrees.
(4) If the aircraft is responding to the prescribed specifications, incr
ease the bank angle in succeeding turns to 20 degrees. If no problems ar
e encountered, climb to 5,000 feet AGL (using the climb checklist and mo
nitoring engine gauges), level off, fly an imaginary landing pattern, an
d test the flaps. Do not forget to announce every 5 to 10 minutes the ai
rcraft's location, altitude, and intentions. Practice approach to landin
g by descending to 4,000 feet AGL first, then to 3,000 feet. Remember, u
se the descent checklist.
(5) During these maneuvers, control pressures should increase in proport
ion to control deflection. If control pressure remains the same as contr
ol deflection increases or if stick forces become lighter as control def
lection increases, the aircraft may have a stability problem. Avoid larg
e control movements and land as soon as possible.
(6) Remember to keep informing the tower/UNICOM/chase plane of what is h
appening. For 10 minutes of anticipated flight time, plan a brief rest p
eriod for the pilot. Fly straight and level, monitor the gauges, and enj
oy the experience.
(7) At low cruise power setting, straight and level, observe how the air
craft trims out. Do the "fixed" trim tabs on the rudder and aileron need
adjustment? Are the adjustable aileron and elevator trim control effect
ive? Is the control stick/yoke slightly forward of the mid-position in s
traight and level flight?
(8) Climb slowly back up to 5,000 feet. Two questions must be answered b
efore landing:
(i) Is the aircraft controllable at low speeds?
(ii) What is the approximate stall speed?
(9) These questions can be answered with an approach to a stall maneuver
. Do NOT perform a FULL STALL check at this time!
(10) The necessity for an approach to a stall check is because it will h
elp establish a preliminary stall speed (V si ) in mph/knots so the appr
oach speed for landing can be calculated. Also, the pilot will have know
ledge of the aircraft's handling characteristics at low speed.
b. Suggested Procedure.
(1) Level off at altitude; make two clearing turns; stabilize airspeed,
heading, and altitude; apply carb heat; set the flaps in the landing con
figuration and reduce power slowly to 900 rpm. TRIM. If, as is not uncom
mon on first flights, the aircraft cannot be trimmed properly, the pilot
can still proceed with the check as long as the stick forces are not un
usually heavy.
(2) With the aircraft airspeed approximately 1.4 mph/knots times (X) the
predicted stall speed, raise the nose slowly. It is desirable for the a
ircraft to start decelerating slowly, about 1/2 mph/knot a second. A 30
mph/knot deceleration at 1/2 mph/knot per second will take only a minute
.
(3) As the aircraft slows down, note all the things that happen as the s
peed bleeds off. Observe the changing nose attitude and how the stick fo
rce changes. Keep the turn coordinator or turn and bank "ball" in the mi
ddle.
(4) Note how much rudder it takes to keep the ball centered. Every few s
econds make very small control inputs to check that the aircraft is oper
ating in the prescribed manner. If the aircraft does not respond to smal
l control inputs -- and it should not be expected to respond as quickly
as it did at higher speeds -- make the inputs a little bit larger. Incre
ase the amount of input progressively. Do not simultaneously put in all
three control inputs. Give particular attention to the response to nose-
down elevator inputs, which is necessary for recovery.
(5) Notice any changes in flight characteristics and the speeds at which
they take place. Be especially alert for the onset of pre-stall buffet.
Is the buffet felt through the stick? Through the airframe? Though the
seat of the pants? Does the nose of the airplane want to rise or drop on
its own? How strong is the buffet? Is it continuous? Would it get the p
ilot's attention if they were concentrating on something else?
NOTE: On some high performance aircraft and aircraft with unusual wing d
esigns, a pre-stall buffet may not exist and the stall may be abrupt and
violent with a large degree of wing drop.
(6) Keep making small control inputs at intervals to check the aircraft'
s responses. At approximately 5 mph/knots before the predicted stall spe
ed, or at the first sign of a pre-stall buffet, note the airspeed and st
op the test. Recover and write down the pre-stall indicated airspeed. Th
is airspeed should be the reference stall speed for the first landing.
(7) The pre-stall recovery response should be a smooth and quick forward
stick movement. This response should be enough to reduce the angle of a
ttack to the point where the airplane is flying normally again.
(8) A wing drop would be unexpected so early in the approach to a stall,
but if it becomes necessary to raise a low wing do it with rudder, NOT
OPPOSITE AILERON. Use of ailerons at lower speed would increase the chan
ces for a stall or a sudden departure from controlled flight.
(9) There is no need to gain more airspeed than the extra few mph/knots
to fly out of a pre-stall condition. After returning to straight and lev
el flight and using the information learned, the pilot can practice a fe
w more recoveries from a pre-stall condition. Remember the aircraft will
constantly be loosing altitude so it is necessary to climb back up to 5
,000 feet AGL to continue further flight testing. Do not get so involved
that the overall objective of the first flight is lost -- which is gett
ing the pilot and aircraft safely back on the ground.
(10) The FLIGHT TEST PLAN for the first flight should call for a maximum
of 1 hour of actual flight time. This is to reduce pilot fatigue and th
e possibility of an engine failure or airframe malfunction occurring due
to vibration or construction errors.
NOTE: The pilot may elect to make several practice approaches to landing
at altitude or low approaches to the active runway to get a solid under
standing of the lower airspeeds, aircraft attitude, and overall feel of
the aircraft in the landing configuration. Before each low approach at t
he airport, the tower/UNICOM/chase plane should be advised of the pilot'
s intentions. Avoid other traffic in the pattern, and use the landing ch
ecklist.
(11) When the pilot has completed all the tests called for by the FLIGHT
TEST PLAN, notify the tower/UNICOM/chase plane of the intent to land. C
omplete the landing checklist before entering downwind. Keep all turns l
ess than 20 degrees of bank, but do not cross-control by using the rudde
r to move the nose. This will increase the bank angle, which most pilots
will correct by using opposite aileron. If allowed to continue, and wit
h back pressure on the stick, this will result in a cross-control stall
and a roll to a near vertical bank attitude at the beginning of a spin w
ith no altitude left for recovery.
(12) On final approach, the aircraft speed should be no less than 1.3 bu
t no more than 1.4 times the recorded "first flight" pre-stall speed. Ho
mebuilt biplanes (high drag) should use an approach speed of 1.5 x stall
speed on landings.
(13) Landings, especially the first one in an amateur-built or kit plane
, are always exciting. Proceed slowly and do not over control. If the la
nding conditions are not ideal, be prepared to go around.
(14) The actual touchdown should take place within the first 1,000 feet
with braking action being applied before the red (abort) flag marker on
the runway.
(15) After taxiing in, secure the aircraft, debrief the flight with memb
ers of the team, then together perform a careful post-flight inspection
of the aircraft.
NOTE: Remember to allow enough time to absorb what has been learned abou
t the aircraft's performance and the pilot's and ground crew's responses
to it.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197875#197875
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
____________________________________________________________
Find the right teaching school to meet your educational needs. Click to
learn more.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4ueZ2Tb9VR6Wjk3sZXu
bBMHPL7WVWB1LZlDuM2HzqcBMnZe6/
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Y stick with single throttle |
You are right on there.... Make the plane comfortable for YOU.... the he
ck with the what if's...
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- Richard Vetterli <richvetterli@yahoo.com> wrote:
com>
I'm not very happy with the dual throttle linkage on
my XL, as it just feels mushy and not very precise.
I'm thinking of switching to a single throttle on the
pilot side only. Most of my passengers are non-pilots
and if I'm incapacitated in an emergency, reaching
across for the throttle would be the least of their
worries. Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Rich Vetterli
601XL/Corvair
Engine running and currently finishing up the canopy.
Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
____________________________________________________________
Click here to find Medical Transcription Training programs.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/Ioyw6i4uAmTDM6htAedy4qDmZ
z9xD1rVwuVlfHiv8VK8bDDuxkeY4q/
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Y stick with single throttle |
With the center mounted Y stick flying from the left seat you fly with
your right hand on the stick and it's a little awkward to reach across
your body to use a throttle also mounted on your right. It could be
done, but it's not very comfortable. With most certificated side by
side aircraft, you fly with your left hand on the yoke and right hand
for the throttle or, in the right seat, your right hand on the yoke
and left hand on the throttle.
>
>
> Why not put it in the middle of the panel, like on most certificated
> aircraft?
> Bill
>
>> >
>>
>> That's the way I have mine set up. I've sat in the passenger seat
>> and found that it's not difficult to reach over to the throttle
>> from there. I've never actually flown it from the right seat though.
>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> I'm not very happy with the dual throttle linkage on
>>> my XL, as it just feels mushy and not very precise.
>>> I'm thinking of switching to a single throttle on the
>>> pilot side only. Most of my passengers are non-pilots
>>> and if I'm incapacitated in an emergency, reaching
>>> across for the throttle would be the least of their
>>> worries. Any thoughts?
>>>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: message for Neil Hulin |
I'm not sure, Neil is monitoring the list as much these days. I have sent him
an email with your request.
Regards,
Kevin Kinney
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198033#198033
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Flutter (Non-Zenith) |
Howdy all;
The tail looked like it might have an adjustable horizontal stabilizer, used
to trim the plane via jack screw, and now it is flexing as it's not really
attached very well to the fuse. Am I seeing things?
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 9:00 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Flutter (Non-Zenith)
Since there has been so much talk about flutter and there may be builders
here who don't 100% know what it is I thought I'd post this video.
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Movie/PA-30/640x/EM-0098-01.mov
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197869#197869
Message 39
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Y stick with single throttle |
Rich,
For the ease of making a dual throttle and low cost of the components like the
one in the 601 plans why not do dual throttle?
Dan
richvetterli(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm not very happy with the dual throttle linkage on
> my XL, as it just feels mushy and not very precise.
> I'm thinking of switching to a single throttle on the
> pilot side only. Most of my passengers are non-pilots
> and if I'm incapacitated in an emergency, reaching
> across for the throttle would be the least of their
> worries. Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Rich Vetterli
> 601XL/Corvair
> Engine running and currently finishing up the canopy.
> Check out my progress at: www.geocities.com/stixx5a
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198061#198061
Message 40
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: First flight N601EX |
David,
I'm jealous! Thanks for sharing the news.
Dan Dempsey
do not archive
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198063#198063
Message 41
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) |
frade not man, if you find one I'd love to see it as well.
JUan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 11, 2008 11:44 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith)
>
>
>Juan, Do you have a video of control flutter you can post? If so please do.
>
>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>amyvega2005(at)earthlink. wrote:
>> That accident was not caused by Aileron flutter, but more a structural flutter
on the entire Horiz Stab design. Apples and Oranges. So far (From my mouth
to Gods' ear) they have not seen a 601 full wing flutter, but a control surface
flutter, and that pointed to way loose cables. But still no proof it cause
any of the accidents.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> --
>
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=197899#197899
>
>
Message 42
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | sealing forward skins to firewall |
I have started drilling and cleco-ing the forward side skins to the firewall
and I have noticed the smallest of gaps, probably not even a milimeter in
size between the foreward side skins, the cabin floor and the firewall
flange.
I was wondering if any builders who are past thid point did anything to seal
this area with high-temp RTV or other sealant to keep noise/heat/fumes
out?....any thoughts?
-brad cohen
XL/TD slow build
Message 43
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: sealing forward skins to firewall |
I used High Temp RTV
--
Leo Gates
N601Z - CH601HDS TDO
Rotax 912UL
Brad Cohen wrote:
>
> I have started drilling and cleco-ing the forward side skins to the
> firewall and I have noticed the smallest of gaps, probably not even a
> milimeter in size between the foreward side skins, the cabin floor and
> the firewall flange.
> I was wondering if any builders who are past thid point did anything
> to seal this area with high-temp RTV or other sealant to keep
> noise/heat/fumes out?....any thoughts?
>
> -brad cohen
> XL/TD slow build
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|