---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/12/08: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:04 AM - Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (DaveG601XL) 2. 06:14 AM - Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (Debo Cox) 3. 06:38 AM - Re: Y stick with single throttle (ronlee) 4. 06:44 AM - Re: First Flight Procedures. (LONG) (Gig Giacona) 5. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: Y stick with single throttle (Jay Maynard) 6. 06:57 AM - Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Gig Giacona) 7. 07:13 AM - Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (Gig Giacona) 8. 08:29 AM - Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (steve) 9. 08:56 AM - Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (Leo Gates) 10. 09:03 AM - Re: Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (Debo Cox) 11. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (Beckman, Rick) 12. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Dave G.) 13. 10:24 AM - Re: Flaps or no Flaps (Craig Spainhower) 14. 10:42 AM - Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Ken Lilja) 15. 10:54 AM - Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Ken Lilja) 16. 11:02 AM - Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (RayStL) 17. 12:02 PM - Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (steve) 18. 02:11 PM - Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (Juan Vega) 19. 02:20 PM - Observations on heat in cabin and CO2 (Juan Vega) 20. 03:05 PM - Re: Observations on heat in cabin and CO2 (Bryan Martin) 21. 03:15 PM - Re: Observations on heat in cabin and CO2 (Leo Gates) 22. 03:16 PM - Re: sealing forward skins to firewall (Bryan Martin) 23. 03:17 PM - Re: Y stick with single throttle (Bill Naumuk) 24. 04:51 PM - Re: First flight N601EX (Jugle) 25. 06:39 PM - Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) (Roger & Lina Hill) 26. 07:45 PM - Re: Observations on heat in cabin and CO2 (Juan Vega) 27. 07:46 PM - 609MJ finally Flies!!!!!!!!!! (archerm) 28. 07:47 PM - Re: First flight N601EX (archerm) 29. 10:46 PM - Re: Observations on heat in cabin and CO2 (chris Sinfield) 30. 10:49 PM - Re: 609MJ finally Flies!!!!!!!!!! (TxDave) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: sealing forward skins to firewall From: "DaveG601XL" Me too. I think I used GE RTV107 or something like that. The red high temp stuff. -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, first flight 7/24/08. In Phase I flight test. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198101#198101 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:33 AM PST US From: Debo Cox Subject: Re: Zenith-List: sealing forward skins to firewall Hey guys, I'm at this point too and was not planning on putting any type of sealer on mine. Here's my reasoning... #1. I'm scratchbuilding, so I made my cabin floor to fit the firewall pretty precisely. #2. No sealer is spec'd in the plans. Maybe I'm missing something though. This is my first airplane. #3. I remember reading something somewhere about an ingredient in RTV sealer being corrosive to aluminum. Can't find it now of course. Somebody smarter than me chime in. This is timely for me, so I'm interested to see what bounces back. Debo Cox Nags Head, NC Scratchbuilt XL/Corvair www.mykitlog.com/debo do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:51 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Y stick with single throttle From: "ronlee" I agree that two throttles are not good. I started out that way with my 701. Lots of friction, heavy feel,etc. If you lock one side you can't move the other side. Operating the throttle from the right side is easy, it's not a long reach at all. It was a hard decision to remove that right throttle but I like it much better as it is now. Ron Lee Tucson, AZ -------- Ron Lee Tucson, Arizona Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198117#198117 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:01 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight Procedures. (LONG) From: "Gig Giacona" Obviously if you have an in-flight problem you will in most cases have to abort the procedure and return to land. But in that case you haven't completed the objective and the flight should be repeated after correction of the problem. With the exception of the E-LSA builders that got a whole 5 hour Phase 1 limitation the rest of us have either 25 or 40 hours where we are going to have turn gasoline into noise. It seems a pity to waste that that time with just flying around in a 25 mile circle. AC 90-89A lays out a pretty could outline that will not only let a builder check that their plane is proper operating condition but will also allow the builder to become very familiar with their aircraft. Do we need to do everything in AC 90-89A? Of course not it was written to cover a wide range of aircraft. I plan to use it to outline a complete test period. After a few quick read throughs and allowing for some flights that are failed for one reason or another it looks like the plan will take between 30-35 hours. Anyone that has an idea for something more worthwhile I can do during the Phase 1 period please post it. n801bh(at)netzero.com wrote: > If all goes well then that checklist is ok..... Good luck on all going well, .. > > > Ben Haas > N801BH > www.haaspowerair.com > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198118#198118 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:56 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Y stick with single throttle On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 06:38:31AM -0700, ronlee wrote: > I agree that two throttles are not good. I started out that way with my > 701. Lots of friction, heavy feel,etc. If you lock one side you can't move > the other side. My Zodiac has dual throttles, as well as dual trim and dual toe brakes. I wanted to be able to fly it completely from either side, and with either hand from the left seat. I haven't noticed any heaviness to the feel over and above what's usual in a light aircraft. I do make sure that the friction lock on the throttle I'm not using is completely loose during the startup checklist. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (FRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC (got it!) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) From: "Gig Giacona" Maybe, maybe not. There was to my knowledge no AD issued for this issue and seeing as those were NASA tests I'd think there would be if it were a design issue. Note that the entire horizontal stabilizer is undulating. It says something for the Piper design that it didn't just come apart. Also not that the undulation was even transmitted into the rear fuselage skins and they are oil canning. I didn't really post this video so we could do an after action report on it. I posted it because while there has been a lot of talk about flutter most of us has never actually seen it in action and knowing what to look for is at least part of properly reporting and dealing with a problem. hills(at)sunflower.com wrote: > Howdy all; > > The tail looked like it might have an adjustable horizontal stabilizer, used > to trim the plane via jack screw, and now it is flexing as it's not really > attached very well to the fuse. Am I seeing things? > > Roger > > -- -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198124#198124 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:13:07 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: sealing forward skins to firewall From: "Gig Giacona" I'm putting Ultra Grey Silicone where the firewall meets the side and top skins. This is mainly to reduce CO that might try to find it's way through there. As for your issues Debo... 1. It's not the floor I'm so much concerned with but the sides and the top. the top is curved and there are several crimps so there is some open area. 2. I think you are about to find there are several things that are a pretty good idea that aren't spec'd in the plans. Especially firewall forward. 3. All RTV sealers aren't created equal. The Grey is spec'd for use on aluminum parts by several auto manufactures including Honda and Toyota. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198126#198126 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:47 AM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: sealing forward skins to firewall My Factory Quick Build Kit has no sealer, period! sw ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debo Cox" Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 6:12 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: sealing forward skins to firewall > > Hey guys, > > I'm at this point too and was not planning on putting any type of sealer > on mine. Here's my reasoning... > > #1. I'm scratchbuilding, so I made my cabin floor to fit the firewall > pretty precisely. > > #2. No sealer is spec'd in the plans. Maybe I'm missing something though. > This is my first airplane. > > #3. I remember reading something somewhere about an ingredient in RTV > sealer being corrosive to aluminum. Can't find it now of course. Somebody > smarter than me chime in. > > This is timely for me, so I'm interested to see what bounces back. > > Debo Cox > Nags Head, NC > Scratchbuilt XL/Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/debo > > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:56:25 AM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: sealing forward skins to firewall Steve, I think this is a safety issue. I do not want CO getting into the cockpit. In case of an engine fire, I do not want toxic smoke to get into the cockpit. Leo Gates steve wrote: > > My Factory Quick Build Kit has no sealer, period! > sw ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:00 AM PST US From: Debo Cox Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: sealing forward skins to firewall Ah. Good info gig. Thanks. Debo do not archive --- On Tue, 8/12/08, Gig Giacona wrote: > From: Gig Giacona > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: sealing forward skins to firewall > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, August 12, 2008, 10:12 AM > Giacona" > > I'm putting Ultra Grey Silicone where the firewall > meets the side and top skins. This is mainly to reduce CO > that might try to find it's way through there. > > As for your issues Debo... > > 1. It's not the floor I'm so much concerned with > but the sides and the top. the top is curved and there are > several crimps so there is some open area. > > 2. I think you are about to find there are several things > that are a pretty good idea that aren't spec'd in > the plans. Especially firewall forward. > > 3. All RTV sealers aren't created equal. The Grey is > spec'd for use on aluminum parts by several auto > manufactures including Honda and Toyota. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198126#198126 > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:40 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: sealing forward skins to firewall From: "Beckman, Rick" 1. It's not the floor I'm so much concerned with but the sides and the top. the top is curved and there are several crimps so there is some open area. Gentlemen, if I may be allowed to jump in here, I might be able to shed a little light on the crimp areas and how to reduce them without a lot of work. I am not sure what you have there, but on the forward part of the middle skin and down low, there is some "puckering". This is in the area of the combination curves. If this is what you are calling crimping, then this will help. My Tech Counselor was by a few weeks ago and told me how to rid myself of these. I used a Ronson mini torch that puts out a small pointed flame about an inch and a half long. I heated the hump in the metal and gently tapped it down. The heating and cooling shrinks the metal and the tapping tells it where you want it to go. It worked well on those areas, especially on the top where the skin rolls over the front bow. Sorry I don't have any pictures of this, but I was pleased with the results. You may wish to use a piece of scrap and experiment a little first. Good luck and God Bless! Rick Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:54 AM PST US From: "Dave G." Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) It would have been nice to see a timestamp on it, it looked slowed down and I expect we are actually looking at a much shorter period than the 15 seconds or so that the video runs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gig Giacona" Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 10:57 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flutter (Non-Zenith) I posted it because while there has been a lot of talk about flutter most of us has never actually seen it in action and knowing what to look for is at least part of properly reporting and dealing with a problem. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:36 AM PST US From: "Craig Spainhower" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flaps or no Flaps The flaps are attached to the wing using 6' of .025 angle riveted to the front of the flap at the top and the upper rear wing spar. I sent a simple drawing to Zenith with an explanation and they approved the arrangement. As far as the XL needing flaps, everyone will have an opinion. I talked to the guy that built the Harley powered XL in southern Illinois (his name excapes me) and he flew from his personal 900' field and didn't use his flaps, I don't plan to fly into anything shorter. Visibility over the nose will be affected due to landing attitude, but with the 0-235 blocking my view, it won't make much difference. Since there are hundreds of 601's flying out there without flaps I think it is a viable option. As I said previously, my main motivation was weight savings and to simplify installing a wing root fairing. I don't think I will miss having flaps, but if I do I probably wouldn't admit it : ) Craig S. N601XS, ready to rig ailerons and commence ground testing On 8/11/08, Juan Vega wrote: > > > I agree with Paul, > to add from a purely function aspect, this is what I get from my flaps: > 1- it greatly increases the visability over the nose at landing; > 2- it does slow the plane down at landing; > 3- it does truly allow for increased lift at high gross weights, given take > offs from short and grassy feilds; > > 4- Resale, got to think that when building as we have the word > experimental stacked against us in the event of resale. > > Juan Vega 427JV > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Paul Mulwitz > >Sent: Aug 11, 2008 3:20 PM > >To: zenith-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flaps or no Flaps > > > > > >Hi John, > > > >First, let me say I don't think fixing the flaps in place would make > >much difference in the wing strength. The flaps are attached with a > >piano hinge and probably present the same strength (give or take) no > >matter what position they are in. > > > >About flap use, I would much prefer a plane with flaps to one without > >them. They provide a number of different features that you just > >don't get with no flaps. This includes slower landing, slower > >takeoff, and steeper descent for landing. None of these things > >matter if you only operate from 10,000 foot paved runways. However, > >to get the most performance on small or soft fields the flaps are > >indispensable. > > > >Paul > >XL getting close > >do not archive > > > > > >At 10:28 AM 8/11/2008, you wrote: > >>hi list > >>after reading the message regarding the sale of the > >>flap motor, i wondered what the advantages of having > >>flaps over having them fixed. I wonder if it would > >>make the wing stronger and if so, how would you "fix > >>them in place". I drove an older bonanza for years, > >>(E35) and almost never used the flaps. For the few > >>miles per hour you reduce, i preferred the simple > >>standard approach. If fixed flaps would make the wing > >>a little stronger, coupled with the savings in weight, > >>i am temped to remove them. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:03 AM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flutter (Non-Zenith) A Twin Comanche has a stabalator - all flying horizontal stabilizer. Like the Zenith rudder. There are 2 bolts in bearings at the center for the stab to pivot on. There is a jackscrew to set the trim tab position. The trim tab is of the anti-servo type - it adds to the force to move the surface in addition to providing trim. There is a significant counter balance weight on a tube in the fuselage. The weight must be close to 10 lb. The tube is about 24" long. The cables attach to the tube. Maintenance items to watch for: bolts or bearings loose at center pivot, loose tab hinges and excess play in the trim jackscrew system. Notice that the tab lags the stab movement. This causes feedback that increases the flutter. Ken Lilja Roger & Lina Hill wrote: > > > Howdy all; > > The tail looked like it might have an adjustable horizontal stabilizer, used > to trim the plane via jack screw, and now it is flexing as it's not really > attached very well to the fuse. Am I seeing things? > > Roger > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:29 AM PST US From: Ken Lilja Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flutter (Non-Zenith) I need to amend this. The Piper Cherokee series uses the bearings and bolts. The Twin Comanche stab pivots on a tube that is about 2" in diameter. Ken Ken Lilja wrote: > > > A Twin Comanche has a stabalator - all flying horizontal stabilizer. > Like the Zenith rudder. There are 2 bolts in bearings at the center > for the stab to pivot on. There is a jackscrew to set the trim tab > position. The trim tab is of the anti-servo type - it adds to the > force to move the surface in addition to providing trim. There is a > significant counter balance weight on a tube in the fuselage. The > weight must be close to 10 lb. The tube is about 24" long. The > cables attach to the tube. Maintenance items to watch for: bolts or > bearings loose at center pivot, loose tab hinges and excess play in > the trim jackscrew system. Notice that the tab lags the stab > movement. This causes feedback that increases the flutter. > Ken Lilja > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:17 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: sealing forward skins to firewall From: "RayStL" I used GE Firestop Intumescent Sealant. I learned what intumescent was when looking to seal wiring going through the firewall. This stuff is designed for through cable penetrations. It expands when heated. In a fire, as the wiring insulation melts and leaves gaps, this stuff expands and keeps the seal. I sealed the edges of the firewall and the cable penetrations with this stuff. -- ray -------- Ray St-Laurent 701/Pegastol wings/Suzuki engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198186#198186 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:20 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: sealing forward skins to firewall Right on.. I think Zenith used the zinc paste in that seam on mine... SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Leo Gates" Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 9:01 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: sealing forward skins to firewall > > Steve, I think this is a safety issue. I do not want CO getting > into the cockpit. In case of an engine fire, I do not want toxic > smoke to get into the cockpit. > > Leo Gates > > steve wrote: >> >> My Factory Quick Build Kit has no sealer, period! >> sw > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:26 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: sealing forward skins to firewall Leo, If you are looking for a seal, Buy the 3M Fireproofing Calk at Aircraft Spruce, Pricey, but does what you want. It expands when exposed to high heat (flame). I am used to that these days from this email list:) Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Leo Gates >Sent: Aug 12, 2008 12:01 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: sealing forward skins to firewall > > >Steve, I think this is a safety issue. I do not want CO getting >into the cockpit. In case of an engine fire, I do not want toxic >smoke to get into the cockpit. > >Leo Gates > >steve wrote: >> >> My Factory Quick Build Kit has no sealer, period! >> sw > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:59 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Zenith-List: Observations on heat in cabin and CO2 Ladies and Gents and all others: In the email stream of sealing the cabin to the engine location, Some observations came to mind on heat froofing and CO2 proofing the cabin. There will be heat transfered to the cabin, the key is minimizing it and deleting CO2 traces. to do that, you can do a few things. As I mention previously A heat sealer from 3M and a fire proof material on the firwall engine side works great. Downside is the stuff is heavy since it adds a layer of stainless steal glued to an insulation. The 3m Firproof caucking heat reacts and seals the cabin. Option two is use the caulking on the engine side to seal, then on cabin side use a basic insulator such as for RVs.(the driving kind not the flying). This is much lighter and cheaper than the $200.00 option above. Now on CO2, its not just in sealing the cabin to engine gaps, but where the exhaust comes out. For $20.00, take your muffler to the nearest Muffler shop and they will make a bolt on Muffler extension that pushes the heat as well as exhaust away from Cabin floor. Just fit the Muffler to the engine, then take a wire and for a template past the front wheel and fire wall to 3 to four inches below and past the cabin side. Look at picure on the net of other planes to get an Idea. Finally for $8.00, get your self a CO2 decal detector. Best money you will ever spend. It changes color if CO2 levels are unhealthy. Mine changes color regardless since my wife says I am full of Hot CO2 anyway! Keep building and having fun! 427JV out! Juan ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:49 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Observations on heat in cabin and CO2 I think you mean CO, not CO2. Carbon monoxide (CO) is deadly at concentrations as low as 0.05%. Carbon dioxide (CO2) is also toxic, but only at concentrations above 5%. On Aug 12, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Juan Vega wrote: > > > > Ladies and Gents and all others: > > In the email stream of sealing the cabin to the engine location, > Some observations came to mind on heat froofing and CO2 proofing the > cabin. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:16 PM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Observations on heat in cabin and CO2 Juan, It's CO not CO2 we worry about. The detectors are CO detectors not CO2. As to exhaust extensions, been there done that. (8-) Juan Vega wrote: > > Ladies and Gents and all others: > > In the email stream of sealing the cabin to the engine location, Some observations came to mind on heat froofing and CO2 proofing the cabin. > > > Now on CO2, its not just in sealing the cabin to engine gaps, but where the exhaust comes out. For $20.00, take your muffler to the nearest Muffler shop and they will make a bolt on Muffler extension that pushes the heat as well as exhaust away from Cabin floor. > > Finally for $8.00, get your self a CO2 decal detector. > 427JV out! > > Juan > > > -- Leo Gates N601Z - CH601HDS TDO Rotax 912UL ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:42 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: sealing forward skins to firewall I used a high temp red RTV designed for use with aluminum. It can be found at most auto parts stores. Don't use RTV designed for use as tub and shower caulk, this usually contains acetic acid, which is corrosive to metals. You can usually tell the difference by the smell, acetic acid has an acrid smell like strong vinegar. The plans don't specifically call for any sealant but, the whole purpose of the firewall is to isolate the heat and fumes of the engine compartment from the cabin, so any gaps and penetrations through the firewall should be sealed so as to maintain the fire resistant character of the firewall. On Aug 11, 2008, at 11:08 PM, Brad Cohen wrote: > > I have started drilling and cleco-ing the forward side skins to the > firewall and I have noticed the smallest of gaps, probably not even > a milimeter in size between the foreward side skins, the cabin floor > and the firewall flange. > I was wondering if any builders who are past thid point did anything > to seal this area with high-temp RTV or other sealant to keep noise/ > heat/fumes out?....any thoughts? > > -brad cohen > XL/TD slow build -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:16 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Y stick with single throttle Bryan- I'm so used to a yoke I never really thought it out. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Martin To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Y stick with single throttle With the center mounted Y stick flying from the left seat you fly with your right hand on the stick and it's a little awkward to reach across your body to use a throttle also mounted on your right. It could be done, but it's not very comfortable. With most certificated side by side aircraft, you fly with your left hand on the yoke and right hand for the throttle or, in the right seat, your right hand on the yoke and left hand on the throttle. Why not put it in the middle of the panel, like on most certificated aircraft? Bill That's the way I have mine set up. I've sat in the passenger seat and found that it's not difficult to reach over to the throttle from there. I've never actually flown it from the right seat though. I'm not very happy with the dual throttle linkage on my XL, as it just feels mushy and not very precise. I'm thinking of switching to a single throttle on the pilot side only. Most of my passengers are non-pilots and if I'm incapacitated in an emergency, reaching across for the throttle would be the least of their worries. Any thoughts? -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:12 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight N601EX From: "Jugle" Congratulations David. I have just turned a deeper shade of envy green. Glenn. -------- Glenn Andressen 601XL- Rudder, Stabiliser partially completed, Wing ribs, nose ribs done, numerous other parts made. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198256#198256 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:52 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Flutter (Non-Zenith) "Notice that the tab lags the stab movement. This causes feedback that increases the flutter". - ok Ken, important safety tip. Remind me never to fly in a Twin Comanche,,,yikesss -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Lilja Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Flutter (Non-Zenith) A Twin Comanche has a stabalator - all flying horizontal stabilizer. Like the Zenith rudder. There are 2 bolts in bearings at the center for the stab to pivot on. There is a jackscrew to set the trim tab position. The trim tab is of the anti-servo type - it adds to the force to move the surface in addition to providing trim. There is a significant counter balance weight on a tube in the fuselage. The weight must be close to 10 lb. The tube is about 24" long. The cables attach to the tube. Maintenance items to watch for: bolts or bearings loose at center pivot, loose tab hinges and excess play in the trim jackscrew system. Notice that the tab lags the stab movement. This causes feedback that increases the flutter. Ken Lilja Roger & Lina Hill wrote: > > > Howdy all; > > The tail looked like it might have an adjustable horizontal stabilizer, used > to trim the plane via jack screw, and now it is flexing as it's not really > attached very well to the fuse. Am I seeing things? > > Roger > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:21 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Observations on heat in cabin and CO2 Thanx Leo for the Chem Lesson. As for Been there done that, Look in the mirror and pat your self on the back! Good Boy! you get a Scooby Snack and A happy sticker!! as my Josh says. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Leo Gates >Sent: Aug 12, 2008 5:56 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Observations on heat in cabin and CO2 > > >Juan, > >It's CO not CO2 we worry about. The detectors are CO detectors not CO2. >As to exhaust extensions, been there done that. (8-) > >Juan Vega wrote: >> >> Ladies and Gents and all others: >>e6 f6r the Che0 3ess6n, 5f >> In the email stream of sealing the cabin to the engine location, Some observations came to mind on heat froofing and CO2 proofing the cabin. >> >> >> Now on CO2, its not just in sealing the cabin to engine gaps, but where the exhaust comes out. For $20.00, take your muffler to the nearest Muffler shop and they will make a bolt on Muffler extension that pushes the heat as well as exhaust away from Cabin floor. >> >> Finally for $8.00, get your self a CO2 decal detector. >> 427JV out! >> >> Juan >> >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Leo Gates >N601Z - CH601HDS TDO >Rotax 912UL > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 609MJ finally Flies!!!!!!!!!! From: "archerm" Had a great first flight. Trimmed out very nicely. All temps and instrument readings stayed in limits. Boy that Jabiru is really nice. Hard to get the grin off my face. The 3.5 years just flew by. Can't wait to fly her again. Cheers -------- Matt www.zodiacxl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198298#198298 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0551_621.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0546_185.jpg ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First flight N601EX From: "archerm" congrats. I just flew mine also. A good week for Zodie Smiles! Cheers Matt www.zodiacxl.com -------- Matt www.zodiacxl.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198299#198299 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:46:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Observations on heat in cabin and CO2 From: "chris Sinfield" tone other area that you may want to look at is the rear fuse access pane and hinge point. The engine exhaust blows straight past it and may leak back into the fuse. Chris. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198320#198320 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:10 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 609MJ finally Flies!!!!!!!!!! From: "TxDave" Congratulations Matt! Your hard work was worth it. Your Web site was one of the first I looked at when I began to think about building my own airplane. You've been a real inspiration. Yeah, that Jab is a smooth running machine. Best wishes for many happy flights in 609MJ. Dave Clay Temple, TX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198321#198321 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.