Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:49 AM - Jabiru Engine Mount Attachment Plate Thickness (Thruster87)
2. 04:10 AM - email address (Dick)
3. 05:43 AM - Re: Re: Sight gage (Roger & Lina Hill)
4. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: Sight gage (Bryan Martin)
5. 06:49 AM - Re: Accident (ZodiacGermany)
6. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: Control Surface Flutter ()
7. 01:04 PM - Re: Sunday (Dick)
8. 01:55 PM - Thanks (Bill Steer)
9. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: Accident (Lawrence Webber)
10. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: Sight gage (Bill Naumuk)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Jabiru Engine Mount Attachment Plate Thickness |
Looking at my Engine Mount for a 601xl [Supplied by Jab USA] and noticed the Firewall
Attachment Plates are only 0.080 thick on the Upper L/H and both bottom
plates. The upper R/H is 0.125 thick. On the drawing 6-JE-1 it specifies that
all should be 0.125 thick. Has anyone else come across this anomaly Cheers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1122#201122
Message 2
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Earle,
Please add woody (elbert) woodard's email address to membership list
skywoody@earthlink.net
thanks, Dick
Message 3
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Gosh, wouldn't I feel silly if my header tank ran dry because my check valve
failed and allowed fuel to drain from the header tank in flight. I think I
will just keep my top-of-the-tank fuel pump discharge tube in it's current
location, even if it does take a bit more pressure to pump the fuel up
there.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Martin
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sight gage
If you mean a Facet 105, I believe that the check valve in this pump
is designed to allow a small amount of back flow in order to let the
fuel line depressurize after shut down. If you use this pump to feed
to the bottom of the header tank, you will have to remember to shut
off the valves leading from the wing tanks to prevent the header tank
from gradually draining into them.
>
> Bryan-
> After sleeping on it, that's what I figured, too. Since the 105
> has a built in check valve, I'm thus best off with the arrangement
> in theattachment to my last e-mail.
> Bill
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 4
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It probably wouldn't drain out much during a flight, but after sitting
overnight, a significant amount may drain back. As I recall, the
reverse flow rate is something like half a gallon an hour. I use two
of these pumps in parallel, one main and one as a backup, it works
just fine with no additional check valves needed. I would probably
pump the fuel to the top of a header tank if I had that configuration
myself. One less thing to keep track of.
>
> >
>
>
> Gosh, wouldn't I feel silly if my header tank ran dry because my
> check valve
> failed and allowed fuel to drain from the header tank in flight. I
> think I
> will just keep my top-of-the-tank fuel pump discharge tube in it's
> current
> location, even if it does take a bit more pressure to pump the fuel up
> there.
>
> Roger
>
>
> >
>
> If you mean a Facet 105, I believe that the check valve in this pump
> is designed to allow a small amount of back flow in order to let the
> fuel line depressurize after shut down.
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
> N61BM, CH 601 XL,
> RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
> do not archive.
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 5
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When certifying aircraft in Germany, we have to do lot of structural tests, lot
more than other countries. Chris Heintz designs have been flying here for many
years with zero structural failures.
This crazy guy that is talking of cri-cri. After doing research, I cannot see anywhere
Chris says it is his design. He built kits with 100% collaboration with
French designer, but this is very old news and wast of everyone time on here.
Focus on positive would be good idea and productive for all I think.
In Europe and other countries, I see more than 5 company that is making copy of
Zenair aircraft. Maybe only excellent designs are copied, but hard for Chris
to control what they do. Impossible situation for control I think. Also this is
true for experimental when builder is making changes.
Chris Heintz letters, especially one with control cable is very informative and
important. I can think that loose control cables in most any aircraft is potentially
big problem. If flutter is cause for some accidents and all I have to
do is make positive that my Zodiac cables are good, that is very good news to
all I think. This would give best explanations for wing problem.
For Zodiac, I cannot know anywhere that USA NTSB or other country has stated a
structural design problem. I would be very interested to see government report
about structure problem, but not interested in builder speculations, especially
from people who want to damage others. thank you.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1180#201180
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Control Surface Flutter |
Gig, I'd be very hesitant to put it on the cable because no matter how
tight the cable was strung (in itself a possible danger) there would be
(for lack of a better name) the "boing" effect, strumming on the cable.
That might be even worse than flutter. I think it would be better to
translate the up-and-down reciprocal motion to a captured,
back-and-forth motion.
Al, the pushrod is only about 8 or 9 inches long between the ball ends,
and I doubt there'd be enough moment arm, particularly at the end of the
pushrod, to bend a 5/16" threaded steel rod. The weight ought not to
have to be that heavy for its inertia to act upon the (potential)
flutter.
Thanks, guys for your input. I believe all new ideas should be
vigorously attacked. If they can be killed, they didn't deserve to live.
If they survive peer attacks, they deserve to live. After over 25
yearsin the profession, I also came to believe in the Darwinian approach
to industrial safety. (But that's another story......)
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Al Hays<mailto:alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Control Surface Flutter
<alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com<mailto:alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com>>
Without conjecturing on whether it would work regarding flutter, I
would be very concerned about that much added weight causing metal
fatigue in the pushrod tube, especially the threaded portion and rod
ends. Any added weight on the pushrod tubes would be bouncing up
and down putting bending forces on the tubes. JMHO. Thanks for
sharing the idea.
Al Hays
601XL/Corvair N5892H reserved
On Aug 27, 2008, at 5:35 PM, Gig Giacona wrote:
<wrgiacona@gmail.com<mailto:wrgiacona@gmail.com>>
>
> I'm not saying that would or wouldn't work. Mainly because it has
> been a LONG time since I took physics. But if it would work
> wouldn't weights attached to the cables do the same thing? And
> since the cable run inside the fuselage you wouldn't have to put
> the weight way out in the wing you could attach it to cable inside
> the fuselage.
>
>
>
>
> [quote="paulrod36(at)msn.com"] Here's one for our aeronautical
> engineers to ponder: While staring at my ailerons,
> wondering if they were going to flutter if ever I get this bird
> finished, a thought struck me.
> Ailerons flutter because they are moving back and forth very fast.
> They move back and forth very fast because they are light, and
> because they have no mass balancing them on the other side of the
> hinge.
> It then struck me that, to add inertial mass doesn't necessarily
> mean putting a weight on an arm out front, or adding a flange so
> you can put weight in front of the hinge.
> AHA! EUREKA! ZOUNDS! How about placing a mass, not necessarily
> equal to the weight of the aileron, on the pushrod itself? Mass is
> used to create inertia, and inertia doesn't care which way it's
> being made to reluctantly move. The aileron can't move very fast
> up and down if the pushrod doesn't want to move very fast backward
> and forward. There's no additional force needed to move the
> aileron, and if the weight is on the pushrod, it's inside, out of
> the airstream, where the wind (and supercritical observers)can't
> find it. I see a tubular lead weight on the pushrod, threaded, to
> snug up against the locknut at the bellcrank end of the pushrod.
>
> Whaddayathink?
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> 601XL/Corvair
>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 7
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Good point. Maybe I'll take Mom to her biscuit and gravy before we leave
Lakeland. Can add boat to list of activities <G>.
Even tough we love that white pizza thing or the pizza hut alfredo
thingy, I could bar-b-q (means pickup someplace for home meal <G>). Up
to you all.
Think I'll try to diet Saturday in case there are any peanut butter
M&M's around (hoping).
Dad
----- Original Message -----
From: NCVLK@aol.com
To: rwripper@verizon.net
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Sunday
Which 3 people are walking around the park? And which park? Are we
assuming the kids will still be asleep? We are going to a USF football
game Saturday night, so I know Leanne will be sleeping in. Don't know
about me and Colin. Activities for Sunday are up in the air. Depending
on the weather, all the activities you listed sound good. We also have
the boat in the water.
Not a problem if Jeff calls you last minute. I know you love us both!
Vicki
In a message dated 8/28/2008 7:15:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rwripper@verizon.net writes:
Vicki,
Mom mentioned maybe hanging out at your place this Sunday since
Nellie is gone. Sounds good to me, maybe we could go out for breakfast
biscuits and gravey & maybe take a 3 person walk around the park...show,
pool, tv,etc, etc
Dad
ps I guess if your brother were to call and ask for help with the
garage floor at the last minute <G>, I'd have to. However I still love
you both <GG>.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal
here.
Message 8
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Thanks to everybody who responded to my request for help with the canopy
on my HD. I'm not out of the woods yet, but am a lot closer.
Bill
Do not archive
Message 9
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WELL SAID
Larry Webber rhode island
601xl corvair chugger> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Accident> From: ZodiacGerm
any@yahoo.com> Date: Thu=2C 28 Aug 2008 06:48:40 -0700> To: zenith-list@mat
many@yahoo.com>> > When certifying aircraft in Germany=2C we have to do lot
of structural tests=2C lot more than other countries. Chris Heintz designs
have been flying here for many years with zero structural failures. > This
crazy guy that is talking of cri-cri. After doing research=2C I cannot see
anywhere Chris says it is his design. He built kits with 100% collaboratio
n with French designer=2C but this is very old news and wast of everyone ti
me on here. Focus on positive would be good idea and productive for all I t
hink.> > In Europe and other countries=2C I see more than 5 company that is
making copy of Zenair aircraft. Maybe only excellent designs are copied=2C
but hard for Chris to control what they do. Impossible situation for contr
ol I think. Also this is true for experimental when builder is making chang
es.> > Chris Heintz letters=2C especially one with control cable is very in
formative and important. I can think that loose control cables in most any
aircraft is potentially big problem. If flutter is cause for some accidents
and all I have to do is make positive that my Zodiac cables are good=2C th
at is very good news to all I think. This would give best explanations for
wing problem. > > For Zodiac=2C I cannot know anywhere that USA NTSB or oth
er country has stated a structural design problem. I would be very interest
ed to see government report about structure problem=2C but not interested i
n builder speculations=2C especially from people who want to damage others.
thank you.> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronic
=======================> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Get thousands of games on your PC=2C your mobile phone=2C and the web with
Windows=AE.
Message 10
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Bryan+Roger-
1. At 1/2 gal/hr, if I fail to monitor my fuel situation in flight
and transfer as needed, my fault- pilot error. If the loss is worse than
that, I'll replumb.
2. I was programmed many moons ago in flight training to shut the
fuel cocks off at shutdown. However, this step will be a good addition
to the "601MG" operational checklist.
Thanks, guys. Full snail's pace ahead!
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bryan Martin
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Sight gage
It probably wouldn't drain out much during a flight, but after sitting
overnight, a significant amount may drain back. As I recall, the reverse
flow rate is something like half a gallon an hour. I use two of these
pumps in parallel, one main and one as a backup, it works just fine with
no additional check valves needed. I would probably pump the fuel to the
top of a header tank if I had that configuration myself. One less thing
to keep track of.
<hills@sunflower.com>
Gosh, wouldn't I feel silly if my header tank ran dry because my
check valve
failed and allowed fuel to drain from the header tank in flight. I
think I
will just keep my top-of-the-tank fuel pump discharge tube in it's
current
location, even if it does take a bit more pressure to pump the fuel
up
there.
Roger
<bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
If you mean a Facet 105, I believe that the check valve in this pump
is designed to allow a small amount of back flow in order to let the
fuel line depressurize after shut down.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not - The Zenith-List -->
http://www.matroni===================
===
http://www.matronics.com/co================
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
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