---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/30/08: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:54 AM - Re: Hayden Lake crash (LHusky@aol.com) 2. 03:17 AM - Re: Hayden Lake crash (stepinwolf) 3. 05:57 AM - rear spar bolt (paul baker) 4. 06:07 AM - Antennas (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 5. 07:21 AM - 601XL to 650 changes on Zenith site (lwinger) 6. 08:58 AM - Kit Planes accident and reliability article (LarryMcFarland) 7. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: Hayden Lake crash (George Swinford) 8. 12:10 PM - Re: CZAW Canopy (flyingmike9) 9. 12:53 PM - Ignition Noise (George Race) 10. 01:34 PM - Re: Ignition Noise (steve) 11. 01:34 PM - Re: Ignition Noise (steve) 12. 01:44 PM - Re: Kit Planes accident and reliability article (Roger & Lina Hill) 13. 02:21 PM - Re: Ignition Noise (Bryan Martin) 14. 02:34 PM - Re: Ignition Noise (Bill Steer) 15. 03:54 PM - Re: rear spar bolt (Southern Reflections) 16. 04:02 PM - Re: Ignition Noise (Gary Ray) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:39 AM PST US From: LHusky@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Hayden Lake crash If I am correct and have looked it up right, it was a Corvair engine. _http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar0307.html_ (http://www.flycorvair.com/hangar0307.html) shows a picture of it with his name. It is the same plane that is shown on the news channel picture. Sad. Very sad. Larry Husky Madras, Oregon In a message dated 8/29/2008 7:10:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, grs-pms@comcast.net writes: I should have checked the FAA registry. It was a 601XL. News reported the airplane flying low over an elementary school, engine sputtering, then the crash. There was no post-crash fire. Does anyone know what engine was installed? George Do not archive (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel deal here. (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:40 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hayden Lake crash From: "stepinwolf" Very sad indeed. Here is a photo of the crash scene, and the aircraft is unrecognizable Bob the 701 & 750 scratch Three Rivers, Quebec -------- Live each day, as if it was your last Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1582#201582 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/080829_idaho_plane_crash_145.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:57:39 AM PST US From: "paul baker" Subject: Zenith-List: rear spar bolt Yesterday my mechanic and me were doing a conditional inspection . He was oiling the fittings to the push rod on the right wing.While he was looking I grabbed the wing tip and moved it fore and aft. Much to my supprise ,the wing moved!!!! The bolt through the rear spar was loose and the hole was enlarged..He removed the bolt ,drilled through,and installed a larger bolt. It is tight now but I was glad I moved the wing..The left wing is ok.this is a 601 hd with 250 hrs be sure to check yours next time you do a preflight. paul baker 601HD paul baker 601HD ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:04 AM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: Antennas Larry, i mounted my Transponder antenna between the right rudder petal on the passenger side and the firewall. you will need to keep the coax cable tied off to the firewall but there is plenty of room. due to the operating frequency you will need to keep this coax as short as practical. i put my Com ant. on the bottom behind the access door for better reception since you will hopefully be above or at the same altitude to whomever you are transmitting to. the bottom of the plane is already dirty aerodynamically with gear, exhaust, hydraulic lines, etc. so there is no need to dirty up the top of the plane. make sure you do not use the old RG-58 coax. there are much better quality cable available with less line loss. Stein air can tell you the numbers. for all the antennas and electronic parts i used Stein Air. they are the best to deal with and will help you with great information. if you plan on having a remote compass be sure to keep it away from the antennas and any magnetic disturbance. one of my rudder cables came in magnetized and it nearly drove me crazy trying to find the problem. a good friend said to take a cheap auto compass and slowly move it about inside the fuselage. that is how i found the problem. you can also do it to find a passive area to mount the remote compass. i would not even think of installling a VOR antenna. they are going away soon. GPS ant. can be about anywhere looking up hope this helps bobby N131BP 601 XL 66.3 hrs. DO NOT ARCHIVE ! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL to 650 changes on Zenith site From: "lwinger" Go to the builder's area for the 601XL and you can now see the list of all changes between the 601XL and 650. -------- Larry Winger Tustin, CA Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair Control surfaces and wings complete Fuselage 50% www.mykitlog.com/lwinger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1602#201602 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:00 AM PST US From: LarryMcFarland Subject: Zenith-List: Kit Planes accident and reliability article Hi Guys, The October issue of Kit Planes has a fine article on accidents and compares a rather large cross section of aircraft and engine types to the statistical records over several years. Very good read! I was surprised to find that automotive conversions held up better internally than the type certified aircraft engines. Problems with automotive conversions were mostly associated with ignition, fuel system, cooling systems or the re-drive. When people take the time to do correct installation and maintenance in these areas, the automotive conversion will easily match or exceed performance and economy of the type-certified aircraft engines. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:12 AM PST US From: "George Swinford" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Hayden Lake crash That's the photo I saw on our local news. I recognized it as a 601 by the stabilizer tip fairings and the rudder . From the thickness of the wing portion on the right side, I thought it was an HD. Obviously I was wrong about that. Sad, indeed! George Do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "stepinwolf" Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 3:16 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Hayden Lake crash > > > Very sad indeed. > > Here is a photo of the crash scene, and the aircraft is unrecognizable > > Bob the 701 & 750 scratch > Three Rivers, Quebec > > -------- > Live each day, as if it was your last > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1582#201582 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/080829_idaho_plane_crash_145.jpg > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CZAW Canopy From: "flyingmike9" hopefully have sent you some pictures of how i did it i have plenty more if needed have your engine been cleared by the LAA as the rotax is what they told me mike do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 1627#201627 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:48 PM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Ignition Noise I am getting a lot more ignition noise than I like in my Icom COM Radio. The noise is so bad that most of the time it is opening the squelch on the radio and I am listening to just noise! I read somewhere that putting in resistor plugs may solve the problem. I was looking at my ignition wiring today and noticed that it say "noise suppression wire" or something like that on the bright red plug and coil leads. Would it still be OK to add resistor plugs with the wire already being noise suppression type? Anybody have any other ideas that I could try? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:34 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ignition Noise George Not a professional but I have had this type of noise in my past two homebuilts. First: Do other radios "hear" your transmissions clearly ? If yes, yet there is noise in receive only, I bet its because the radio wires are not shielded and or grounded on one end...... My first time it was that I didnt use shielded wire. I change out all wires to the shielded type. Still had some noise. Then a real radio man told me to ground the shielded wire on one end only. Otherwise you get a looped circuit and that also causes interference..... SW ----- Original Message ----- From: George Race To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com ; zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Ignition Noise I am getting a lot more ignition noise than I like in my Icom COM Radio. The noise is so bad that most of the time it is opening the squelch on the radio and I am listening to just noise! I read somewhere that putting in resistor plugs may solve the problem. I was looking at my ignition wiring today and noticed that it say "noise suppression wire" or something like that on the bright red plug and coil leads. Would it still be OK to add resistor plugs with the wire already being noise suppression type? Anybody have any other ideas that I could try? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:34 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ignition Noise And,,, if its actually engine noise you should hear the mags frequency change with rpm... ----- Original Message ----- From: George Race To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com ; zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 12:52 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Ignition Noise I am getting a lot more ignition noise than I like in my Icom COM Radio. The noise is so bad that most of the time it is opening the squelch on the radio and I am listening to just noise! I read somewhere that putting in resistor plugs may solve the problem. I was looking at my ignition wiring today and noticed that it say "noise suppression wire" or something like that on the bright red plug and coil leads. Would it still be OK to add resistor plugs with the wire already being noise suppression type? Anybody have any other ideas that I could try? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:26 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Kit Planes accident and reliability article Dual ignition, dual fuel pumps, 1/2 the accidents,,,,,, That's what I always say, and apparently, so do the statistics in that kit plane article. (a reserve fuel tank helps too) Roger -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryMcFarland Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 10:56 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Kit Planes accident and reliability article Hi Guys, The October issue of Kit Planes has a fine article on accidents and compares a rather large cross section of aircraft and engine types to the statistical records over several years. Very good read! I was surprised to find that automotive conversions held up better internally than the type certified aircraft engines. Problems with automotive conversions were mostly associated with ignition, fuel system, cooling systems or the re-drive. When people take the time to do correct installation and maintenance in these areas, the automotive conversion will easily match or exceed performance and economy of the type-certified aircraft engines. Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:12 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ignition Noise Are you using this radio with an intercom wired into the plane? If so you should be using shielded wires for all your audio circuits. I would use two wire shielded wire for the audio output lines (audio LO, audio HI and shield) and three wire shielded wire for the microphone lines (audio LO, Audio HI, PTT and shield). Don't use the shield as part of the audio circuit, just as a shield. The audio signals should run through the wires enclosed by the shield. All the shields should be grounded at only one end, usually you would ground them all at the intercom or audio panel since they all travel through there anyway. Make sure the headset jacks aren't grounded, use plastic washers and grommets to isolate them from the chassis if necessary. B and C Specialty Products sells these isolation washers if you need them. You might also need to use shielded wire for you magneto leads. These can and probably should be grounded at both ends since this shield is intended to keep noise from getting out of these wires rather than from getting in. Using resistor plugs in addition to the noise suppression wire might give some additional benefit. On Aug 30, 2008, at 3:52 PM, George Race wrote: > I am getting a lot more ignition noise than I like in my Icom COM > Radio. > > The noise is so bad that most of the time it is opening the squelch > on the radio and I am listening to just noise! > > I read somewhere that putting in resistor plugs may solve the > problem. I was looking at my ignition wiring today and noticed that > it say "noise suppression wire" or something like that on the bright > red plug and coil leads. Would it still be OK to add resistor plugs > with the wire already being noise suppression type? > > Anybody have any other ideas that I could try? > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:23 PM PST US From: Bill Steer Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ignition Noise I agree with Bryan - use shielded wires. I have a wiring diagram for my radio and intercom that I'd be happy to forward to anybody as an example. It shows exactly what Bryan is talking - ground at only one point. Bill Bryan Martin wrote: > Are you using this radio with an intercom wired into the plane? If so > you should be using shielded wires for all your audio circuits. I > would use two wire shielded wire for the audio output lines (audio LO, > audio HI and shield) and three wire shielded wire for the microphone > lines (audio LO, Audio HI, PTT and shield). Don't use the shield as > part of the audio circuit, just as a shield. The audio signals should > run through the wires enclosed by the shield. All the shields should > be grounded at only one end, usually you would ground them all at the > intercom or audio panel since they all travel through there anyway. > Make sure the headset jacks aren't grounded, use plastic washers and > grommets to isolate them from the chassis if necessary. B and C > Specialty Products sells these isolation washers if you need them. > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:26 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: rear spar bolt Paul what about a large ss washer on that bolt? joe ----- Original Message ----- From: paul baker To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 8:56 AM Subject: Zenith-List: rear spar bolt Yesterday my mechanic and me were doing a conditional inspection . He was oiling the fittings to the push rod on the right wing.While he was looking I grabbed the wing tip and moved it fore and aft. Much to my supprise ,the wing moved!!!! The bolt through the rear spar was loose and the hole was enlarged..He removed the bolt ,drilled through,and installed a larger bolt. It is tight now but I was glad I moved the wing..The left wing is ok.this is a 601 hd with 250 hrs be sure to check yours next time you do a preflight. paul baker 601HD paul baker 601HD ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:36 PM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ignition Noise George I just had a problem where a linear voltage regulator was injecting noise in a 4 inch unshielded area where the shielded wire breaks out to the jacks. It was bad design to even have these power wires running thru this area. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: George Race To: zenith701801-list@matronics.com ; zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2008 3:52 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Ignition Noise I am getting a lot more ignition noise than I like in my Icom COM Radio. The noise is so bad that most of the time it is opening the squelch on the radio and I am listening to just noise! I read somewhere that putting in resistor plugs may solve the problem. I was looking at my ignition wiring today and noticed that it say "noise suppression wire" or something like that on the bright red plug and coil leads. Would it still be OK to add resistor plugs with the wire already being noise suppression type? Anybody have any other ideas that I could try? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.