Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:12 AM - Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals (ashontz)
2. 06:29 AM - Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals (Gig Giacona)
3. 06:32 AM - Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals (Gig Giacona)
4. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals (Paul Mulwitz)
5. 07:40 AM - Re: Re: Ethanol (was leaking VDO....) (jaybannist@cs.com)
6. 08:17 AM - Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals (ashontz)
7. 10:02 AM - Online EAA Videos (Gig Giacona)
8. 02:27 PM - Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals (PatrickW)
9. 05:34 PM - Re: Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals (steve)
10. 07:43 PM - Wire tension gage (George Swinford)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals |
That's more the spirit. I just threw this out there because it came up in an EAA
meeting of ours and I thought it was interesting. EAA = EXPERIMENTAL Aircraft
Association. This was an experiment that a guy ran that he had luck with. It's
worth further investigation for sure on the lines of exactly what octane is
the result, but it certainly seems like a promising way to remove a known contaminant
(ethanol). Ethanol poses a number of problems, not just phase separation
and water retention in solution leading to a foul running engine. It obviously
breaks down seals and gaskets, cleans varnish and sludge buildup that may
clog a fuel filter in flight etc... Personally, if I was running mo-gas I wouldn't
want ethanol in it up in the air. I've had this E10 stuff foul my boat engine,
at least there you can just anchor up and try to repeatedly restart and
let it fluff and fart for 10 minutes til it clears itself. That's not something
you can do in the air. And when I had that happen and took the fuel/water separator
off and drained it, there was nothing to see, the fuel appeared fine,
that was just the water in suspension in the ethanol, before outright phase separation.
If that was a plane, the fuel would have appeared to have been fine
on a pre-flight gascolator drain check.
PatrickW wrote:
> I'd like to be able to safely burn whatever fuel is available. If 100ll is available,
that'll be my first choice.
>
> But what if it isn't available? I'd like to have the flexibility to use auto
gas (that might or might not have ethanol in it) if I need to.
>
> We don't know what the fuel availability will be a few years from now. We should
build our fuel systems today for what we might encounter in the future.
>
> - Pat
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2708#202708
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| Subject: | Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals |
Patrick, you can build your fuel system to run with ethanol laced gas. But it won't
be easy. You are going to have to confirm that every single item from the
fuel cap to the engine is capable of dealing with the stuff. I've spent a lot
of time going through the various catalogs and product websites and many of them
don't say if their product is ethanol safe or not so that means you have to
test it yourself.
That said I think that will change over the next few years as it becomes more and
more of an issue for us places like ACS will start marking the products they
carry as ethanol safe.
The primary problems with ethanol though is that it will always absorb water and
it will always have less energy than gasoline.
There are too many certified planes out there for 100LL or some successor of it
to ever go away completely and I'd be willing to bet that in the foreseeable
future we will be able to purchase something without ethanol in it. God only knows
what it will cost but the same could be said for mogas.
PatrickW wrote:
> I'd like to be able to safely burn whatever fuel is available. If 100ll is available,
that'll be my first choice.
>
> But what if it isn't available? I'd like to have the flexibility to use auto
gas (that might or might not have ethanol in it) if I need to.
>
> We don't know what the fuel availability will be a few years from now. We should
build our fuel systems today for what we might encounter in the future.
>
> - Pat
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2729#202729
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals |
Andy, what part of "You don't know what the Octane is after the removal of the
ethanol," don't you understand?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2731#202731
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| Subject: | Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals |
I think it is a mistake to assume we will forever be forced to deal
with adulterated gas. The alcohol movement got a lot of political
support in the beginning, but today there is a lot of resistance to
this idea.
The political arena will determine the future of alcohol in our
gas. This could change in just a few years to return to the old
tried and true notion that gas pumps should pump just gasoline and
alcohol should be reserved for hangar flying.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 06:28 AM 9/5/2008, you wrote:
>
>Patrick, you can build your fuel system to run with ethanol laced
>gas. But it won't be easy. You are going to have to confirm that
>every single item from the fuel cap to the engine is capable of
>dealing with the stuff. I've spent a lot of time going through the
>various catalogs and product websites and many of them don't say if
>their product is ethanol safe or not so that means you have to test
>it yourself.
>
>That said I think that will change over the next few years as it
>becomes more and more of an issue for us places like ACS will start
>marking the products they carry as ethanol safe.
>
>The primary problems with ethanol though is that it will always
>absorb water and it will always have less energy than gasoline.
>
>There are too many certified planes out there for 100LL or some
>successor of it to ever go away completely and I'd be willing to bet
>that in the foreseeable future we will be able to purchase something
>without ethanol in it. God only knows what it will cost but the same
>could be said for mogas.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ethanol (was leaking VDO....) |
Paul,
You are absolutely correct. Ethanol in our gasoline has nothing to do
with saving energy (it costs more to produce than gasoline) or with
protecting the environment (emissions are worse than gasoline). It is
PURELY political. We can only hope that saner, more rational, less
political leaders can correct this abominable mistake; but I will
certainly not be betting the rent money on this happening.
I'm just not "experimental" enough to trust my life to gasoline with
any ethanol added. I'll be sticking with 100LL.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Sent: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 9:18 am
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals
I think it is a mistake to assume we will forever be forced to deal
with adulterated gas. The alcohol movement got a lot of political
support in the beginning, but today there is a lot of resistance to
this idea.
The political arena will determine the future of alcohol in our
gas. This could change in just a few years to return to the old
tried and true notion that gas pumps should pump just gasoline and
alcohol should be reserved for hangar flying.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals |
I apologize everyone. Gig's always right, I'm always wrong. It's just easier that
way. LOL
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2755#202755
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| Subject: | Online EAA Videos |
I don't know if this is new or if I just found it but the EAA has a site with some
pretty neat "How-To" videos available on the web at:
http://www.eaa.org/video/homebuilders.html
Worth taking a look at.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2774#202774
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals |
Gig Giacona wrote:
> Patrick, you can build your fuel system to run with ethanol laced gas. But it
won't be easy. You are going to have to confirm that every single item from the
fuel cap to the engine is capable of dealing with the stuff.
My intent is to build my fuel system to be ethanol tolerant, but of course I have
learned a lot more since I started (I say that because I overlooked the fuel
filler cap seals).
A lot of builders (including myself) are using Summit braided steel fuel line (Summit
says "our hose is designed to handle any fuel including methanol and nitromethane,
oil, or coolant"). Does "methanol safe" also means "ethanol safe"...?
It's been about 20 years since I took organic chemistry, but I think so.
But still, testing is the only way to know for sure. Maybe put a piece in a
jar of ethanol for a few months and see if anything happens...
What about carb parts? Is it safe to assume newer materials are alcohol tolerant?.
I have an MA3-SPA that's freshly rebuilt. Just now I read the documentation
that came with it, but it doesn't say anything about ethanol.
Has anyone tested the VW sender seals?
We already know about the filler cap seal.... :-(
Gig - You're a bit closer to being done than I am. Given what you know now, do
you think your airplane would tolerate ethanol laced gas if some were put in
by mistake? (granted that you prefer 100ll)
Is there anybody out there who has been flying with an ethanol tolerant fuel system
who can shed some light on what works and what doesn't...?
- Pat
--------
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2822#202822
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals |
Sorry I know this is off topic but:::
Wire tension gauge? I dont want to buy a WTG at $899. What are you guys
doing to calibrate the tension on your control cables. I found sailboat
stay wire gauges on the internet. Costing $99. I asked the dealer about
using them on airplanes and was told that it would work ok but the gauge is
for stainless steel wire and the reads would be off.
I can handle $99 not the $899.
SW
601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: "PatrickW" <pwhoyt@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 2:26 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Leaking VDO fuel sender seals
>
>
> Gig Giacona wrote:
>> Patrick, you can build your fuel system to run with ethanol laced gas.
>> But it won't be easy. You are going to have to confirm that every single
>> item from the fuel cap to the engine is capable of dealing with the
>> stuff.
>
>
> My intent is to build my fuel system to be ethanol tolerant, but of course
> I have learned a lot more since I started (I say that because I overlooked
> the fuel filler cap seals).
>
> A lot of builders (including myself) are using Summit braided steel fuel
> line (Summit says "our hose is designed to handle any fuel including
> methanol and nitromethane, oil, or coolant"). Does "methanol safe" also
> means "ethanol safe"...? It's been about 20 years since I took organic
> chemistry, but I think so. But still, testing is the only way to know for
> sure. Maybe put a piece in a jar of ethanol for a few months and see if
> anything happens...
>
> What about carb parts? Is it safe to assume newer materials are alcohol
> tolerant?. I have an MA3-SPA that's freshly rebuilt. Just now I read the
> documentation that came with it, but it doesn't say anything about
> ethanol.
>
> Has anyone tested the VW sender seals?
>
> We already know about the filler cap seal.... :-(
>
> Gig - You're a bit closer to being done than I am. Given what you know
> now, do you think your airplane would tolerate ethanol laced gas if some
> were put in by mistake? (granted that you prefer 100ll)
>
> Is there anybody out there who has been flying with an ethanol tolerant
> fuel system who can shed some light on what works and what doesn't...?
>
> - Pat
>
> --------
> Patrick
> 601XL/Corvair
> N63PZ (reserved)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 2822#202822
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Wire tension gage |
Steve:
I bought a "sailboat gage and found it not much use for our purpose.
See Larry McFarland's home-made tension gage on his web site.
George
do not archive
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