---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/11/08: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:24 AM - Re: Fiberglass wing tip installation (jaybannist@cs.com) 2. 07:43 AM - Zenair Newsletters mailed - surprise inside (Jon Croke) 3. 02:40 PM - Fuel Level (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 4. 02:52 PM - Dip Stick (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 5. 03:33 PM - Re: Dip Stick (steve) 6. 05:17 PM - Re: Zenair Newsletters mailed - surprise inside (Lawrence Webber) 7. 06:09 PM - Re: Zenair Newsletters mailed - surprise inside (DaveG601XL) 8. 07:28 PM - Re: ACS Primer Kit (leinad) 9. 07:31 PM - Re: Fiberglass wing tip installation (Ronald Steele) 10. 07:49 PM - Re: Fiberglass wing tip installation (Rick Lindstrom) 11. 07:50 PM - Re: Problem with fuel level senders (John Swartout) 12. 08:42 PM - Flight Training DVD's (D G) 13. 08:55 PM - Flight Training DVD's (D G) 14. 09:58 PM - Looking for a Corvair flight engine in Southern California (Dave Thompson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:05 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fiberglass wing tip installation From: jaybannist@cs.com Ron, I had the same problem.? I honestly don't remember how I held the fiberglass in place while drilling.? I think I clamped the upper and lower rear corners and just used "by guess and by gosh" to drill the nose.? I also had the slight wing skin overhang and gap at the nose. I used SuperFil to fill and smooth it out and make it look purtty.? It is really easy to mix, apply and sand to a nice contour. That might not be the "kosher" way, but it worked for me. This whole wingtip area is awkward from a fitting and fastening standpoint.? I could find no way to clamp the upper crimped angle for the wingtip end plate.? I was holding it by hand to drill.? When the drill bit popped through, my little finger was in the way and I drilled right through the fingernail.? Ouch! Jay in Dallas -----Original Message----- From: Ronald Steele Sent: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 9:26 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Fiberglass wing tip installation ? How you go about getting a good fit of the forward (fiberglass) wing tip on the 601XL? I have a couple for problems. One is how to hold the tip in place while drilling, as there doesn't seem to be a way to clamp it. The other is that it looks like I'll have to trim the skin around the front of the tip to prevent it extending past the curve of the fiberglass. Is this normal? If I install the tip so that front of the skin blends smoothly into the tip, there is only about 4mm of space to rivet the tip. I know this isn't very clear. Trying to come up with a better description.? ? Ron? 601XL -wings? ? ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:28 AM PST US From: "Jon Croke" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenair Newsletters mailed - surprise inside For Zenair newsletter subscribers: The new issue (Sept/Oct) newsletter was recently mailed - please open carefully as a DVD was inserted into each issue! On this DVD is video from the recent Hangar Days at Zenith with the full presentation from Gus Warren's preflight seminar on 601/701. And more - the detailed presentation from Mathieu Heinz on the changes made to the 601XL to create the 650 design and questions from the audience. We are experimenting with this new video format to supplement the hardcopy newsletter of all things Zenith (technical, builders, show stuff). Please leave your opinions after watching at: www.zenair.org Thanks Jon editor www.zenair.org ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:09 PM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: Fuel Level Listers, i bent my fuel transmitter floats exactly like the drawing on 2 different 601 XLs. when in calibration mode on a level surface both quit transmitting higher readings at about 7.5 to 8.5 gallons. we set one up to read 15 gallons when full and i set mine to read 7 gallons when full. it will read 7 gallons untill it gets below that and then reads very accurately. we used a calibrated 6 gal. plastic gas can and a 12v. high capacity fuel pump and could pump out all but about a quart of fuel. we pumped what was left in each tank back into the calibrated gas can after flying and found the gauges to be very accurate. if you make a steep turn and do not stay co-ordinated you will see the tanks change readings below about 6 gallons. i am using a Dynon DEK-180. very fine piece of equipment. Bobby N131BP 68 hrs. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:48 PM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: Dip Stick guys, i made my dip stick out of 3/8" dowel and slanted it at an angle toward the fuselage until it wedged against the sides of the filler neck with the end on the bottom of thetank. that way you will get the same angle every time and the inclined dowel will measure all the way down to a little less than 3 gals. make it about 4" longer than where it strikes the filler neck so it will not be able to fall into the tank. i put about 3 thin coats of varnish to cover the painted inclined marks and sanded with 400 grit paper so i could see the wetted area. works very accurately on both tanks. it will very accurately measure from 3 to 14 gallons. Always do a visual fuel check before each flight. Bobby N131BP ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:18 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Dip Stick I made my dipstick out of 1/4 inch clear PVC tubing. Same type as Cessna uses. Stick it down to bottom of tank, put finger over open end (like a kid with a soda straw) and remove. You will see exactly how much fuel is in the tube. Calibrate as you fill the tank on the first fill, ie. 5, 12 15 gallons.... SW Still fighting with my weight and balance calculations. 601XL with Jabiru 3300..... and BRS (449mm) ----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 2:52 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Dip Stick > > guys, > i made my dip stick out of 3/8" dowel and slanted it at an angle toward > the fuselage until it wedged against the sides of the filler neck with the > end on the bottom of thetank. that way you will get the same angle every > time and the inclined dowel will measure all the way down to a little less > than 3 gals. make it about 4" longer than where it strikes the filler neck > so it will not be able to fall into the tank. i put about 3 thin coats of > varnish to cover the painted inclined marks and sanded with 400 grit paper > so i could see the wetted area. works very accurately on both tanks. it > will very accurately measure from 3 to 14 gallons. > > Always do a visual fuel check before each flight. > > Bobby > N131BP > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:44 PM PST US From: Lawrence Webber Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Zenair Newsletters mailed - surprise inside since i renewed my subscription in june i have received nothing whats up ? Larry From: Jon@joncroke.comTo: zenith-list@matronics.comSubject: Zenith-List: Ze nair Newsletters mailed - surprise insideDate: Sat=2C 11 Oct 2008 09:42:32 -0500 For Zenair newsletter subscribers: The new issue (Sept/Oct) newsletter was recently mailed - please open caref ully as a DVD was inserted into each issue! On this DVD is video from the recent Hangar Days at Zenith with the full presentation from Gus Warren's p reflight seminar on 601/701. And more - the detailed presentation from Mat hieu Heinz on the changes made to the 601XL to create the 650 design and qu estions from the audience. We are experimenting with this new video format to supplement the hardcopy newsletter of all things Zenith (technical=2C b uilders=2C show stuff). Please leave your opinions after watching at: www .zenair.org Thanks Jon editor www.zenair.org _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:24 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenair Newsletters mailed - surprise inside From: "DaveG601XL" Jon, It was a very nice surprise. Gus's pre-flight presentation was very informative. Thanks!! -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, first flight 7/24/08. In Phase I flight test. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8327#208327 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:49 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ACS Primer Kit From: "leinad" Gig asked what carb. I'm using an SU carberator from a 1959 MG. It has no choke, or accelerator pump. There was a "choke" nob on the dash, but it actually withdraws the mixture needed to give you full rich. This is going on a Corvair engine. There is a place right where the intake manifold attaches to the head that is drilled and tapped for 1/8 NTP. I have dual electronic fuel pumps forward the firewall, and a gascolator on the cabin floor. I've got the engine on a test stand now and am contemplating trying it without the primer. I'm also considering forgoing the manual primer and opting for an electronic selenoid valve after the fuel pumps. I'm probably a few weeks from being ready to start the engine at the earliest. leinad wrote: > Has anyone else purchased the primer kit from ACS. It came with no instructions. I'm not sure which is inlet and which is outlet. Also normally do you take the fuel before the pump or after? > Dan -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8331#208331 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:11 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fiberglass wing tip installation On a related note, has anyone used nut plates to attach the tips? I'm thinking this would allow access to strobe power supplies. Are there any special requirements for attaching nut plates to fiberglass? Ron > > How you go about getting a good fit of the forward (fiberglass) wing > tip on the 601XL? I have a couple for problems. One is how to hold > the tip in place while drilling, as there doesn't seem to be a way > to clamp it. The other is that it looks like I'll have to trim the > skin around the front of the tip to prevent it extending past the > curve of the fiberglass. Is this normal? If I install the tip so > that front of the skin blends smoothly into the tip, there is only > about 4mm of space to rivet the tip. I know this isn't very clear. > Trying to come up with a better description. > > Ron > 601XL -wings > > > Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:07 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fiberglass wing tip installation Y'know, you guys, there's a new combination wingtip position light/strobe assembly from Aveo Engineering that is fully self-contained (requiring no separate power supply). Someone asked me today at the Cloverdale Quality Sport Plane Fly-In how I got to the strobe power supply on my 601, and I said drill out the rivets. Which really is no big deal, except that they're painted. But I plan to install the Aveo units, as they make the wingtip issue moot. And since they're designed around very high intensity LEDs driven by on board circuitry, they draw peanuts for current. I was actually running around Oshkosh with a prototype, showing various manufacturers the unit and driving it fully with a 9V transistor radio battery. It was, by far, the coolest thing I saw at the show. A bit pricy at $660 for a pair, but man! How they simplify installation with no further maintenance required! Rick Lindstrom N42KP / Corvair -----Original Message----- >From: Ronald Steele >Sent: Oct 11, 2008 7:28 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fiberglass wing tip installation > >On a related note, has anyone used nut plates to attach the tips? I'm >thinking this would allow access to strobe power supplies. Are there >any special requirements for attaching nut plates to fiberglass? > >Ron ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:33 PM PST US From: "John Swartout" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Problem with fuel level senders Andy, I made the same mistake--not testing them with the gauge before sealing them into the four tanks on my CH-801. I installed them exactly according to the instructions, but the gauge (when I finally checked them) read full when full, but 1/12 full when they were empty--not a good situation. I had sealed them to the tank flanges with PR-2 instead of using the rubber gaskets because I had a clearance issue with the center terminal being too high and interfering with the access cover. It was quite a job to drill out the rivets in the access cover and not letting any of the rivets disappear into the wing bays, then heat the VDO sender to probably 250 degrees until the PR-2 softened enough to pry it loose. This of course melted the nylon part of the sender, destroying it. I replaced them with Stewart Warner 240-30 ohm senders, which have a bit lower profile, at about half the price of VDO's, but of course then I couldn't use the Mitchell gauges because they go from about 8 to 185 ohms. I replaced them with Chief gauges (2 1/4"), which are compatible with the Stewart Warner senders, at about $40 each for the two. And I tested them before final installation, using the gaskets this time. Total cost of my error: about 6 hours and $180. If you made an access hole in the top skin of the wing over the senders--with nutplates or rivets--it's not that big a deal to pull them out and re-adjust them. It sounds to me like your float arms are too long (which doesn't allow the variable resistor to realize its full range) and the pivot pin is located above the vertical mid-point of the tank, so travel below the horizontal is adequate but travel above the horizontal is not. John On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Dr. Andrew Elliott wrote: > I very carefully bent the fuel level sender arms in accordance with the > instructions before fitting them to the factory fuel tanks on my 601XL with > 15G tanks. I (duh?) did not calibrate the senders before putting the wings > on the plane. I did check the resistance and both went from 73 to 10 ohms. > > Unfortunately, I found today, when calibrating the senders for my EFIS, > that the right tank sender doesn't register the 1st gallon and then maxes > out at 8.5 gallons. The left tank starts right away, but maxes out at 6 > gallons. > > I am really not looking forward to trying to extract and adjust the bends > in the float wires through the access hole, but I really don't want to have > displays that only register 1/2 the fuel in the plane. (Even though it will > be OK at low fuel levels.) I do have a fuel flow and totalizer function. > > Anyway, I am looking to hear if anyone else has had this problem, and what > the fix was? Maybe I installed them upside down? > > Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ > N601GE (registered) > 601XL/TD, Corvair, finishing... > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:30 PM PST US From: D G Subject: Zenith-List: Flight Training DVD's I was wondering if anyone on the list have any Training DVD's they're done with, and would want to sell? I was looking at the Sporty's DVD's but would entertain others. Any thoughts on what is best? Thanks. Dean ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:55 PM PST US From: D G Subject: Zenith-List: Flight Training DVD's I was wondering if anyone on the list have any Training DVD's they're done with, and would want to sell? I was looking at the Sporty's DVD's but would entertain others. Any thoughts on what is best? Thanks. Dean ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:36 PM PST US From: "Dave Thompson" Subject: Zenith-List: Looking for a Corvair flight engine in Southern California People, I have made several requests to several places including Flycorvair.com with no responses so I thought I'd make the request here. I am a member of Vintage Corsa, the Orange County, California chapter of CORSA, Corvair Society of America (cars & trucks). Our chapter is hosting the Great Western Fan Belt Toss this year. It is one of the largest Corvair (car & truck) events on the west coast each year. The 'Toss will be held at the Orange County Fair Grounds on October 31st, November 1st and 2nd. It has been moved from Palm Springs to Orange County this year to try to give the Corvair more exposure to the general public. The 'Toss will share the fairgrounds that weekend with a national woodworking convention and the Orange County Market Place. The OC Market place boasts that they are the largest swap meet in Southern California. Thousands of people are expected to attend the fairgrounds that weekend. See our website for more information about the 'Toss. Vintagecorsa.com The reason that I have posted here is that we were wondering if someone wanted to represent the flight segment of the Corvair movement. Is there someone with a flight Corvair engine that might want to bring it to the show? (Could I dream of a fuselage with mounted engine?) If we can get someone, I'll see to it the display space is free. If you can think of a local So Cal guy that might be interested in displaying, please forward this email. It sure would be cool if we had a flight engine at the show! If someone wanted to travel to the show, I have a spare bedroom. Anyone should contact me directly. Thanks, Dave Thompson Westminster, CA Dave.thompson@verizon.net 714-334-3833 1963 turbo Spyder Convertable ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.