Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:24 AM - Re: Amperage draw (kmccune)
2. 06:36 AM - Re: 601 Aileron cable tension (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
3. 07:41 AM - Re: 601 Aileron cable tension (LarryMcFarland)
4. 07:54 AM - Re: Amperage Draw (John Goodings)
5. 08:10 AM - Re: Wire Size For VDO Fuel Senders (Bryan Martin)
6. 08:58 AM - Re: 601 Aileron cable tension (Leo Gates)
7. 09:37 AM - Wires and fuses and such (Grant Corriveau)
8. 09:48 AM - Re: 601 Aileron cable tension (passpat@aol.com)
9. 09:49 AM - Re: 601 Aileron cable tension (Frank Roskind)
10. 09:55 AM - Nicopress tools? (Don Mountain)
11. 09:59 AM - Re: Wires and fuses and such (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 10:11 AM - Re: Nicopress tools? (Paul Mulwitz)
13. 10:12 AM - Re: Nicopress tools? (John Davis)
14. 10:36 AM - Re: 601 Aileron cable tension (passpat@aol.com)
15. 10:40 AM - Re: 601 Aileron cable tension (Leo Gates)
16. 10:55 AM - Re: Nicopress tools? (steve)
17. 10:59 AM - Re: 601 Aileron cable tension (steve)
18. 11:04 AM - Re: 601 Aileron cable tension (Juan Vega)
19. 11:14 AM - Re: 601 Aileron cable tension (steve)
20. 01:58 PM - Re: 601 Aileron cable tension (Juan Vega)
21. 01:58 PM - Re: Nicopress tools? (Juan Vega)
22. 03:21 PM - Cable Tensions for 601XL? (Don Mountain)
23. 03:23 PM - Re: Nicopress tools? (Bill Naumuk)
24. 03:54 PM - Re: Lighting rudder. (n801bh@netzero.com)
25. 04:58 PM - Countersinking tool and thread chaser for 601XL fuel tank filler neck (Robert Haskins)
26. 06:48 PM - Re: Nicopress tools? (Bryan Martin)
27. 06:48 PM - Re: Nicopress tools? (Bryan Martin)
28. 07:33 PM - Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? (Juan Vega)
29. 07:37 PM - Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? (Ron Lendon)
30. 07:42 PM - Re: Countersinking tool and thread chaser for 601XL fuel tank fi (Ron Lendon)
31. 07:48 PM - Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? (Paul Mulwitz)
32. 08:01 PM - Nov 7th and 9th updates on Zenith European groundings (Craig Payne)
33. 09:47 PM - Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? (Sabrina)
34. 10:43 PM - Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? (Jay Maynard)
35. 11:11 PM - Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? (Sabrina)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Amperage draw |
There are also different types of fuses, but generally they are slow and fast acting
fuses. Make sure that you have the slow acting type for a motor circuit.
The inrush current of DC motors is 10 or more times the steady current draw
or so, but only for milliseconds or at least a pretty short time. The fast acting
ones will blow on high inrush currents as they are made to protect delicate
electronics and not the wiring. The slow acting type will not blow on inrush
if the circuit is OK and you have chosen the correct rating. They are rated
by % overload VS time, the mfg should have this info on their website.
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=213473#213473
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron cable tension |
Rogar, the letter referred to 601 and 650 airplanes, Bill
**************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other
Holiday needs. Search Now.
-aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron cable tension |
Hi Roger,
I believe wing flutter is only suspected, but never confirmed on the XL.
The condition has never been reported on a HDS to my recollection. With
the thicker wing and section strength, you'd probably have to be in an
extended
dive straight down to get flutter on the HDS.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Roger & Lina Hill wrote:
>
> Is the wing flutter problem just on XLs or are the older 601HDS wings
> affected too?
>
> Roger
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Amperage Draw |
The current-carrying capacity of wires is listed as: 18 A.W.G. (5 amp. in
flexible wire (A.W.G. = American wire gauge), 16 A.W.G. (7 amp.) and 14
A.W.G. (15 amp.). For all routine wiring, use 18 A.W.G. aircraft wire -
it is strong enough. Use a fuse matched to the device you are running;
allow a 50% overrun. This assumes the device has an amperage rating less
than the wire supplying it. For delicate things, 20 A.W.G. may be enough.
For starter motors, etc., much bigger gauge is needed - as big as you can
reasonably use. And, use SLOW-BLOW fuses which will stand a bit of a
surge, not fast-blow.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Ottawa/Carp/Toronto.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wire Size For VDO Fuel Senders |
You're neglecting the resistance of the fuel gauge itself, which may
be several thousand ohms. The current in a meter circuit is
negligible, a few milliamps at most. The physical strength of the wire
and possibly, the resistance of the wire dictate wire size.
On Nov 10, 2008, at 11:47 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> The current load from your fuel sender can be calculated by taking
> the minimum resistance in ohms and dividing the voltage (14) by it.
> I suspect you will get something less than 1 amp. That would
> suggest you could use any size wire you want.
>
> However, you want wire that is strong enough mechanically to stand
> up to the rigors of flying around in your plane. This might suggest
> 16 awg or perhaps something down to 22 awg depending on how strong
> you think the wire should be and how well it is supported as it is
> routed from the fuel tank to the fuel gauge.
>
> In the end, it is just a coin flipper.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron cable tension |
I dove my HDS to 160 MPH during phase 1 testing, 5 MPH increase at a
time. A non-event, other than a shorts change.
--
Leo Gates
N601Z - CH601HDS TDO
Rotax 912UL
LarryMcFarland wrote:
>
>
> Hi Roger,
> I believe wing flutter is only suspected, but never confirmed on the XL.
> The condition has never been reported on a HDS to my recollection. With
> the thicker wing and section strength, you'd probably have to be in an
> extended
> dive straight down to get flutter on the HDS.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Roger & Lina Hill wrote:
>>
>> Is the wing flutter problem just on XLs or are the older 601HDS
>> wings affected too?
>>
>> Roger
>>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Wires and fuses and such |
Shouldn't fuses/cbs be matched to protect the wire in the circuit?
So matching the fuse to the amp draw of the load item seems to be
skipping a step - no?
The wire gauge should be selected to match the load, cooling
requirements, distance of the run, voltage loss over that distance
etc. Then the fuse/cb is matched to the wire gauge. Isn't that the
way it's "supposed" to be done?
Having said that, after wiring my plane according to Bob Nucholl's
excellent manual, if I did it over again I might do like most car
manufacturers do and use nothing less than 16 gauge wire w 10 amp
fuses. This would vastly simplify the whole thing, simplify the fuse
layout/ need for extras; and would add only a negligible amount of
weight on a simple aircraft like this.
fwiw
Grant
C-GHTF w/ CAM100
(now into winter works projects/upgrades)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron cable tension |
WE HAVE A VETERN PILOT ON THE FIELD THAT HAS CONFIRMED FLUTTER AND LUCKLY GO
T IT BACK UNDER CONTROL BEFORE ANY DAMAGE OCCURED AIRCRAFT WAS 601XL
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Gates <leo@zuehlfield.com>
Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:54 am
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron cable tension
=C2-
I dove my HDS to 160 MPH during phase 1 testing, 5 MPH increase at a time. A
non-event, other than a shorts change.=C2-
-- =C2-
Leo Gates=C2-
N601Z - CH601HDS TDO=C2-
Rotax 912UL=C2-
=C2-
LarryMcFarland wrote:=C2-
=C2-
>=C2-
>=C2-
> Hi Roger,=C2-
> I believe wing flutter is only suspected, but never confirmed on the XL.
=C2-
> The condition has never been reported on a HDS to my recollection. With
=C2-
> the thicker wing and section strength, you'd probably have to be in an > e
xtended=C2-
> dive straight down to get flutter on the HDS.=C2-
>=C2-
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com=C2-
>=C2-
> Roger & Lina Hill wrote:=C2-
>>=C2-
>> Is the wing flutter problem just on XL=99s or are the older 601HDS
>> wings affected too?=C2-
>>=C2-
>> Roger=C2-
>>=C2-
=C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
=C2-
Message 9
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| Subject: | 601 Aileron cable tension |
The shorts change and non-event seem inconsistent. Did something scary hap
pen?
Do not archive> Date: Tue=2C 11 Nov 2008 10:54:25 -0600> From: leo@zuehlfie
ld.com> To: zenith-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Ailero
ield.com>> > I dove my HDS to 160 MPH during phase 1 testing=2C 5 MPH incre
ase at a > time. A non-event=2C other than a shorts change.> -- > > Leo Gat
es> N601Z - CH601HDS TDO> Rotax 912UL> > LarryMcFarland wrote:> > --> Zenit
h-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>> >> >> > H
i Roger=2C> > I believe wing flutter is only suspected=2C but never confirm
ed on the XL.> > The condition has never been reported on a HDS to my recol
lection. With> > the thicker wing and section strength=2C you'd probably ha
ve to be in an > > extended> > dive straight down to get flutter on the HDS
.> >> > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com> >> > Roger & Lina Hi
ll wrote:> >>> >> Is the wing flutter problem just on XL=92s or are the old
========================> _
=========> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail.
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112008
Message 10
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| Subject: | Nicopress tools? |
In putting the tail section together on my 601XL, I realized that I am gett
ing close to rigging up all the cables.- I have been trying to find the b
est solution for the Nicopress tool for the cable sleeves.- Any recommend
ations?- And what size press do I need as I have been looking for them on
Ebay?- Some of them list an "M" jaw size with an oval for 1/8" cables?
- Anybody have one they would like to sell?- And where can I get inform
ation on building a cable tensioner indicating device?
Don Mountain
=0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wires and fuses and such |
Hi Grant,
I think your procedure is OK but a bit of overkill. It would work,
but so would using fuses that are sufficiently large to not blow
under normal use. For example, a 10 amp fuse will do a fine job on a
circuit that only draws 1 amp under normal use.
I have separate fuses for each major electrical or electronic
device. I put them in nice little fuse blocks I got from NAPA.
My idea is if a fuse blows then it only takes out one device and
repairs should be delayed until after the flight is over. That means
I mounted the fuse blocks behind the instrument panel, the way it is
normally done in cars, rather than cluttering the panel front with them.
Paul
XL getting close
At 09:27 AM 11/11/2008, you wrote:
>
>Shouldn't fuses/cbs be matched to protect the wire in the circuit?
>So matching the fuse to the amp draw of the load item seems to be
>skipping a step - no?
>
>The wire gauge should be selected to match the load, cooling
>requirements, distance of the run, voltage loss over that distance
>etc. Then the fuse/cb is matched to the wire gauge. Isn't that the
>way it's "supposed" to be done?
>
>Having said that, after wiring my plane according to Bob Nucholl's
>excellent manual, if I did it over again I might do like most car
>manufacturers do and use nothing less than 16 gauge wire w 10 amp
>fuses. This would vastly simplify the whole thing, simplify the fuse
>layout/ need for extras; and would add only a negligible amount of
>weight on a simple aircraft like this.
>
>fwiw
>Grant
>C-GHTF w/ CAM100
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools? |
Hi Don,
I've been using the Swage-it tool. It costs less than $20 at
A/S. Here is a link:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/swagingtool.php
I would suggest you order a few extra sleeves to practice with.
On the cable tension, I was planning to build one of the measuring
tools but with all the noise related to wing separations I decided to
buy the lower priced one (around $190) instead.
Good luck,
Paul
XL getting close
At 09:53 AM 11/11/2008, you wrote:
>In putting the tail section together on my 601XL, I realized that I
>am getting close to rigging up all the cables. I have been trying
>to find the best solution for the Nicopress tool for the cable
>sleeves. Any recommendations? And what size press do I need as I
>have been looking for them on Ebay? Some of them list an "M" jaw
>size with an oval for 1/8" cables? Anybody have one they would like
>to sell? And where can I get information on building a cable
>tensioner indicating device?
>
>Don Mountain
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools? |
Don -
I used the Economy Swaging tool from Aircraft Spruce
(http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/swagingtool.php), its
only $18.65 and seemed to work well with the 1/8" cables on my 601XL. Be
sure to get the nicopress gauge to test your crimped sleeves as well.
Larry McFarland at http://www.macsmachine.com/ has info on building your
own cable tension device.
Good Luck,
John Davis
601XL - Jab 3300
Ready for first Flight...
Don Mountain wrote:
> In putting the tail section together on my 601XL, I realized that I am
> getting close to rigging up all the cables. I have been trying to
> find the best solution for the Nicopress tool for the cable sleeves.
> Any recommendations? And what size press do I need as I have been
> looking for them on Ebay? Some of them list an "M" jaw size with an
> oval for 1/8" cables? Anybody have one they would like to sell? And
> where can I get information on building a cable tensioner indicating
> device?
>
> Don Mountain
>
>
> *
>
> *
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron cable tension |
-----Original Message-----
From: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:38 am
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron cable tension
=C2-
=C2-
Hi Roger,=C2-
I believe wing flutter is only suspected, but never confirmed on the XL.=C2
-
The condition has never been reported on a HDS to my recollection. With=C2
-
the thicker wing and section strength, you'd probably have to be in an exten
ded=C2-
dive straight down to get flutter on the HDS.=C2-
=C2-
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com=C2-
=C2-
Roger & Lina Hill wrote:=C2-
>=C2-
> Is the wing flutter problem just on XL=99s or are the older 601HDS w
ings > affected too?=C2-
>=C2-
> Roger=C2-
>=C2-
=C2-
=C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
============C2-
=C2-
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron cable tension |
Just my over active imagination and pucker factor.
Frank Roskind wrote:
> The shorts change and non-event seem inconsistent. Did something
> scary happen?
>
> Do not archive
>
> > Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:54:25 -0600
> > From: leo@zuehlfield.com
> > To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron cable tension
> >
> >
> > I dove my HDS to 160 MPH during phase 1 testing, 5 MPH increase at a
> > time. A non-event, other than a shorts change.
> > --
> >
> > Leo Gates
> > N601Z - CH601HDS TDO
> > Rotax 912UL
> >
> > LarryMcFarland wrote:
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Roger,
> > > I believe wing flutter is only suspected, but never confirmed on
> the XL.
> > > The condition has never been reported on a HDS to my recollection.
> With
> > > the thicker wing and section strength, you'd probably have to be
> in an
> > > extended
> > > dive straight down to get flutter on the HDS.
> > >
> > > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> > >
> > > Roger & Lina Hill wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Is the wing flutter problem just on XLs or are the older 601HDS
> > >> wings affected too?
> > >>
> > >> Roger
> > &g====================
> > _======
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. Sign up today.
> <http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_112008>
>
> *
>
> *
--
Leo Gates
N601Z - CH601HDS TDO
Rotax 912UL
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools? |
I made a cable tension gauge like the one shown on Larry Macs website.
It works but needs calibration...
I ll give it to you, just pay $10 shipping..
notsew_evets@frontiernet.net
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Mountain
To: Zenith
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:53 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Nicopress tools?
In putting the tail section together on my 601XL, I realized
that I am getting close to rigging up all the cables. I have been
trying to find the best solution for the Nicopress tool for the cable
sleeves. Any recommendations? And what size press do I need as I have
been looking for them on Ebay? Some of them list an "M" jaw size with
an oval for 1/8" cables? Anybody have one they would like to sell? And
where can I get information on building a cable tensioner indicating
device?
Don Mountain
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron cable tension |
Pat , Which model Zenith do you fly ???
S.
----- Original Message -----
From: passpat@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; a300cpt@bellsouth.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:47 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron cable tension
WE HAVE A VETERN PILOT ON THE FIELD THAT HAS CONFIRMED FLUTTER AND
LUCKLY GOT IT BACK UNDER CONTROL BEFORE ANY DAMAGE OCCURED AIRCRAFT WAS
601XL
Pat
-----Original Message-----
From: Leo Gates <leo@zuehlfield.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:54 am
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron cable tension
I dove my HDS to 160 MPH during phase 1 testing, 5 MPH increase at a
time. A non-event, other than a shorts change.
--
Leo Gates
N601Z - CH601HDS TDO
Rotax 912UL
LarryMcFarland wrote:
<larry@macsmachine.com>
>
>
> Hi Roger,
> I believe wing flutter is only suspected, but never confirmed on the
XL.
> The condition has never been reported on a HDS to my recollection.
With
> the thicker wing and section strength, you'd probably have to be in
an > extended
> dive straight down to get flutter on the HDS.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
>
> Roger & Lina Hill wrote:
>>
>> Is the wing flutter problem just on XL=99s or are the older
601HDS >> wings affected too?
>>
>> Roger
>>
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Message 18
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| Subject: | 601 Aileron cable tension |
there still is not concrete evidence there is a flutter issue on any of the models.
The AD is an advisory, on any of the aircraft and is recommending that
people tension the cables AS PER THE PLANS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW IN THE BUILD
PROCESS (REFER TO PLANS)
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net>
>Sent: Nov 11, 2008 12:05 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron cable tension
>
>Roger
>
>The only accident that I'm aware of involving HD type wings is the Bramley
>UK accident. The accident report gives the probable cause for that accident
>to be an over-stressed wing that apparently resulted from an abrupt
>climbing maneuver to avoid power lines. The accident report is the file
>G_YOXI.pdf in the ZBAG file section:
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZBAG/files/
>
>There is no mention of flutter.
>
>Terry
>
>
>At 10:40 PM 11/10/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>Is the wing flutter problem just on XL's or are the older 601HDS wings
>>affected too?
>>
>>
>>
>>Roger
>
>
>Terry Phillips ZBAGer
>ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
>Corvallis MT
>601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
>are done; working on the wings
>http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron cable tension |
Aileron flutter is different from wing flutter.
I vote its been aileron cable tension that causes the problems. Any
unbalanced control surface will act unusual at speeds without the cables
tight. Look at the Piper J 3..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Vega" <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron cable tension
>
> there still is not concrete evidence there is a flutter issue on any of
> the models. The AD is an advisory, on any of the aircraft and is
> recommending that people tension the cables AS PER THE PLANS YOU ARE
> SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW IN THE BUILD PROCESS (REFER TO PLANS)
>
> Juan
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net>
>>Sent: Nov 11, 2008 12:05 AM
>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RE: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron cable tension
>>
>>Roger
>>
>>The only accident that I'm aware of involving HD type wings is the Bramley
>>UK accident. The accident report gives the probable cause for that
>>accident
>>to be an over-stressed wing that apparently resulted from an abrupt
>>climbing maneuver to avoid power lines. The accident report is the file
>>G_YOXI.pdf in the ZBAG file section:
>>
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZBAG/files/
>>
>>There is no mention of flutter.
>>
>>Terry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 10:40 PM 11/10/2008 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>>Is the wing flutter problem just on XL's or are the older 601HDS wings
>>>affected too?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Roger
>>
>>
>>Terry Phillips ZBAGer
>>ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
>>Corvallis MT
>>601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
>>are done; working on the wings
>>http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 601 Aileron cable tension |
does not mean its adesign flaw, it just tells me the cables were not properly tightened.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: steve <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
>Sent: Nov 11, 2008 1:56 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron cable tension
>
>Pat , Which model Zenith do you fly ???
>
>S.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: passpat@aol.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com ; a300cpt@bellsouth.net
> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron cable tension
>
>
> WE HAVE A VETERN PILOT ON THE FIELD THAT HAS CONFIRMED FLUTTER AND LUCKLY GOT
IT BACK UNDER CONTROL BEFORE ANY DAMAGE OCCURED AIRCRAFT WAS 601XL
>
> Pat
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leo Gates <leo@zuehlfield.com>
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:54 am
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 Aileron cable tension
>
>
>
> I dove my HDS to 160 MPH during phase 1 testing, 5 MPH increase at a time. A
non-event, other than a shorts change.
> --
> Leo Gates
> N601Z - CH601HDS TDO
> Rotax 912UL
>
> LarryMcFarland wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Roger,
> > I believe wing flutter is only suspected, but never confirmed on the XL.
> > The condition has never been reported on a HDS to my recollection. With
> > the thicker wing and section strength, you'd probably have to be in an > extended
> > dive straight down to get flutter on the HDS.
> >
> > Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
> >
> > Roger & Lina Hill wrote:
> >>
> >> Is the wing flutter problem just on XLs or are the older 601HDS >> wings
affected too?
> >>
> >> Roger
> >>
>
> ===========
> nk>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===========
> et=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> ===========
> /forums.matronics.com
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>
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>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools? |
make a guage and use a nico presss from Home Depot. check the press with your
guage. 1/8 inch i believe.
-----Original Message-----
>From: steve <notsew_evets@frontiernet.net>
>Sent: Nov 11, 2008 1:53 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nicopress tools?
>
>I made a cable tension gauge like the one shown on Larry Macs website. It works
but needs calibration...
>I ll give it to you, just pay $10 shipping..
>notsew_evets@frontiernet.net
>Steve
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Mountain
> To: Zenith
> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:53 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Nicopress tools?
>
>
> In putting the tail section together on my 601XL, I realized that I am
getting close to rigging up all the cables. I have been trying to find the best
solution for the Nicopress tool for the cable sleeves. Any recommendations?
And what size press do I need as I have been looking for them on Ebay? Some
of them list an "M" jaw size with an oval for 1/8" cables? Anybody have one
they would like to sell? And where can I get information on building a cable
tensioner indicating device?
>
> Don Mountain
>
>
>
>3D============================================
>3D============================================
>3D============================================
>3D============================================
Message 22
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| Subject: | Cable Tensions for 601XL? |
I am in the rigging stage for my 601XL, and can't find any references to wh
at the cable tensions are supposed to be in the plans or manual.- What ar
e all the cables supposed to be tensioned to and where may I find this info
rmation on the 601XL plans or specifications?
Don Mountain
=0A=0A=0A
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools? |
Don-
The ACS swaging tool works fine, but you'll probably have carpal tunnel
by the time you're done.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Nicopress tools?
>
> Hi Don,
>
> I've been using the Swage-it tool. It costs less than $20 at A/S. Here
> is a link:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/swagingtool.php
>
> I would suggest you order a few extra sleeves to practice with.
>
> On the cable tension, I was planning to build one of the measuring tools
> but with all the noise related to wing separations I decided to buy the
> lower priced one (around $190) instead.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Paul
> XL getting close
>
> At 09:53 AM 11/11/2008, you wrote:
>
>>In putting the tail section together on my 601XL, I realized that I am
>>getting close to rigging up all the cables. I have been trying to find
>>the best solution for the Nicopress tool for the cable sleeves. Any
>>recommendations? And what size press do I need as I have been looking for
>>them on Ebay? Some of them list an "M" jaw size with an oval for 1/8"
>>cables? Anybody have one they would like to sell? And where can I get
>>information on building a cable tensioner indicating device?
>>
>>Don Mountain
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Lighting rudder. |
You can probably do it by cutting the hole on the rear of the rudder wh
ere the fiberglass fairing bolts to. Through that hole you "should" be a
ble to put a hole in the bottom rudder rib. From there all ya got to do
is get a grommet in that dang hole <G>. Drilling the front hole is a non
issue altho you will need to remove that half round piece of trim that
s on the front lower area. Let us know if you can pull this off.. I am s
ure others will be curious too.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
_____________________________________________________________
Click here to find the satellite television package that meets your need
s.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2221/fc/Ioyw6i4tvKJL7zaeEK3XNrXfc
SIpkFWPwNJKQx0fzMfSeHAkBsexLs/?count=1234567890
Message 25
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| Subject: | Countersinking tool and thread chaser for 601XL fuel tank filler |
neck
Where can I buy, borrow, steal, or rent a countersinking tool and thread
chaser for the fuel tank filler neck for the 601XL?
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools? |
I got an 18" nicopress crimper from eBay from a fence supply outfit
for about $50. Nicopress fittings aren't just used for aircraft,
they're used for a number of applications. You might even find one at
a local farm supply store. just make sure you get a go-no go gauge to
test your crimps.
On Nov 11, 2008, at 12:53 PM, Don Mountain wrote:
> In putting the tail section together on my 601XL, I realized that I
> am getting close to rigging up all the cables. I have been trying
> to find the best solution for the Nicopress tool for the cable
> sleeves. Any recommendations? And what size press do I need as I
> have been looking for them on Ebay? Some of them list an "M" jaw
> size with an oval for 1/8" cables? Anybody have one they would like
> to sell? And where can I get information on building a cable
> tensioner indicating device?
>
> Don Mountain
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools? |
I got an 18" nicopress crimper from eBay from a fence supply outfit
for about $50. Nicopress fittings aren't just used for aircraft,
they're used for a number of applications. You might even find one at
a local farm supply store. just make sure you get a go-no go gauge to
test your crimps.
On Nov 11, 2008, at 12:53 PM, Don Mountain wrote:
> In putting the tail section together on my 601XL, I realized that I
> am getting close to rigging up all the cables. I have been trying
> to find the best solution for the Nicopress tool for the cable
> sleeves. Any recommendations? And what size press do I need as I
> have been looking for them on Ebay? Some of them list an "M" jaw
> size with an oval for 1/8" cables? Anybody have one they would like
> to sell? And where can I get information on building a cable
> tensioner indicating device?
>
> Don Mountain
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? |
check the page with the cable rigging, its says 30 lbs. that is inch lbs i believe,
or 4 ft lbs.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Don Mountain <mountain4don@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Nov 11, 2008 6:20 PM
>To: Zenith <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Cable Tensions for 601XL?
>
>I am in the rigging stage for my 601XL, and can't find any references to what
the cable tensions are supposed to be in the plans or manual. What are all the
cables supposed to be tensioned to and where may I find this information on the
601XL plans or specifications?
>
>Don Mountain
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? |
They just posted a great guide on the builder site at zenith.
Go to the Zenith Aircraft Builder Pages, click on
"for important notices and other building and flying information."
then click on the link next to Zenair Safety Alert
"Photo guide: How to check the control cable tension of your Zodiac"
I would like to just post the link but I promised Zenith I wouldn't.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=213616#213616
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Countersinking tool and thread chaser for 601XL fuel |
tank fi
Contact Zenith and get on the list to get the Big Tap. I used it and it only took
minutes to fix it up. Here is my log entry that shows what came in the package:
http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log=39171&row=192
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
Corvair Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=213617#213617
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? |
Hi Juan,
I think you are confusing cable tension with torque.
My take on 30 pounds of tension is the amount of tension (pull) you
get when the cable is holding up a 30 pound weight.
I just got the tensiometer shown in the AD from Aircraft Spruce and
measured the rudder and elevator cables I already have installed (my
wings are not yet on the plane). My results setting the cable
tension with no instruments at all were very close to the desired
ones. The rudder was 7 pounds high and the elevator was 2 pounds
low. Perhaps that is why Chris Heintz originally suggested we didn't
really need the fancy instrument to rig the cables.
Paul
XL getting close
At 07:32 PM 11/11/2008, you wrote:
>check the page with the cable rigging, its says 30 lbs. that is inch
>lbs i believe, or 4 ft lbs.
>
>Juan
Message 32
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| Subject: | Nov 7th and 9th updates on Zenith European groundings |
>From http://www.zenairulm.com/News/index_files/Page505.htm
Nov 7th:
"For many owners of the presently grounded CH 601 XL in Europe, evidence of
progress with the current investigation has been disappointingly slim for
the last week. This is also the case for Zenair Europe. The response from
Dutch authorities to our repeated inquiries has been consistent: "The
investigation is on-going". Our offer to provide input has been politely
declined, as has our request to inspect the accident aircraft, as has our
offer to fly designer Chris Heintz to Holland to answer engineering
questions. Other Civilian Aviation Authorities (CAA) have also attempted to
obtain additional details, to no avail.
Adding to the frustration: Due to the complete lack of information being
released, even between agencies, the CAA of a number of additional countries
have felt compelled to adopt the Dutch "emergency" action: To our knowledge,
the Czech Republic, Greece and Spain all grounded their CH 601 XL fleets
this week. A number of offices we are in contact with regret at having to
ground the aircraft, but until the Dutch Safety Board reveals the basis for
its allegation that the "design calculations by the designer were probably
too optimistic", they have little choice but to err on the side of caution.
Another unexpected twist this week came from the UK: In the UK, where the
CH 601 XL is considered an Experimental amateur-built design (it is not a
certified ultralight there like in the rest of Europe), the LAA did not feel
that grounding the aircraft was justified based on the available information
from the Netherlands (see our update of October 30). Now aware, however,
(via our bulletin #ZE-2008-001) that aileron flutter is a remote possibility
if control cables are loose, the LAA has grounded the XL fleet in the UK
until it has been demonstrated that the aircraft will remain flutter-free
throughout the range of its flight envelope, even with cable tensions set at
their lowest approved tolerances.
In the original rational which accompanies their "Emergency Airworthiness
Directive" (grounding), Dutch authorities cite "seven similar accidents
worldwide that have not been explained" [paraphrased]. A number of builders
have pointed out the inaccuracy of this claim as well as the absurdity of
using it to justify the current grounding. Zenair has tried to convey this
message and hopes that it was heard. We thank Dutch CH 601 XL owner and
pilot Hans Oosterhoff for researching these accidents and for sending us a
summary of his findings; it will be included in our next update."
The Nov 9th update nicely summarizes many of the accidents around the world.
One twist I didn't know about the crash in Spain:
"Accident in Spain (05/02/2008): According to eyewitnesses, wing fractured
after an explosion. Additional context from Zenair dealer in Spain: accident
occurred after a high-speed pass and pull-up over a football field where a
family member of passenger was playing. Based on findings, Accident
Investigation Committee estimated high speed pass of approx. 290 Km/h*.
(Source: http://www.ultraligero.net/Accidentes/08.htm and Zenair
correspondence) (CZAW-ULM) *Note: VNE = 260km/h"
By my calculations 290 Km/h would be 180.1 mph.
-- Craig
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? |
Hello all... update on my cable tensions... my rudder cable tensions had to be
adjusted today... although my IA set the aileron and elevator tensions to the
high range of the AD/service letter, he left the rudder tension alone at 27 pounds--his
notes seemed to indicate the tension got less as the prop was placed
in a sling. The tension should increase not decrease.
I checked the tensions today and they were 27 with weight on the nose, 33 with
the prop lifted by hand and nearly 40 with the nose gear stop plate at rest.
Now, they have been adjusted to 25 with the stop plate at rest, but only 12-13
sitting on the tarmac. The O-200a with a metal prop is fairly heavy so the nose
gear stop plate (for those of us with the older nose strut) is raised about
3/4" at rest.
Thanks to all who questioned my last posting of rudder tension numbers off line.
Happy Veteran's Day to all of you veterans out there--thank you for giving my generation
the opportunities we enjoy.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=213631#213631
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? |
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 10:32:35PM -0500, Juan Vega wrote:
> check the page with the cable rigging, its says 30 lbs. that is inch lbs i
> believe, or 4 ft lbs.
No, that's 30 pounds cable tension, not torque (what would it be torque
*on*?).
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Cable Tensions for 601XL? |
"No, that's 30 pounds cable tension, not torque "
Jay, what page (letter/number) of your plans are you referring to. I did not know
they handed out plans with the S-LSA. That is cool. So too, what revision
date is on the page you refer to.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=213637#213637
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