Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:22 AM - What Members Are Saying... (Matt Dralle)
1. 04:56 AM - UK LLA Ground CH601XL (Clive Richards)
2. 06:29 AM - Help! Zenith Riveter (MHerder)
3. 06:52 AM - Re: Help! Zenith Riveter (n85ae)
4. 07:31 AM - Re: Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
5. 07:44 AM - Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension (annken100)
6. 09:39 AM - Re: Help! Zenith Riveter (Gary Ray)
7. 09:46 AM - Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension (David X)
8. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension (Pramod Kotwal)
9. 12:20 PM - Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension (PatrickW)
10. 12:24 PM - Re: Help! Zenith Riveter (PatrickW)
11. 01:52 PM - Re: Help! Zenith Riveter (Southern Reflections)
12. 02:08 PM - Re: Help! Zenith Riveter (MHerder)
13. 04:36 PM - Re: Re: Help! Zenith Riveter (Southern Reflections)
14. 04:44 PM - Fairleads (Dirk Zahtilla)
15. 04:58 PM - Re: Fairleads (ihab.awad@gmail.com)
16. 05:43 PM - Re: Fairleads (Sabrina)
17. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension (Roger & Lina Hill)
18. 06:36 PM - Re: Re: Help! Zenith Riveter (Leo Gates)
19. 07:03 PM - Re: Fairleads (Bryan Martin)
20. 07:12 PM - Re: Re: Help! Zenith Riveter (Southern Reflections)
21. 11:49 PM - Re: Re: Help! Zenith Riveter (raymondj)
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| Subject: | What Members Are Saying... |
Dear Listers,
November is the Annual Matronics List Fund Raiser. The Lists are supported solely
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today and pick up a really nice free gift at this same time:
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Thank you for your support this year!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator
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Message 1
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| Subject: | UK LLA Ground CH601XL |
To all
Futther to previous post from 5th Nov 2008 the UK LLA have also grounded
the XL pending further investigation.
Zenair CH601-XL Update - 5th November 2008
Following the accident in Holland and the issue of an 'AD' by the Zenair
factory, the LAA has reviewed the situation as it currently stands and
has concluded that more work needs to be done to resolve a potential
aileron flutter issue on this type, which may or may not have been a
factor in this accident. Reluctantly, the LAA has recommended to the UK
CAA that the Zenair CH601-XL type administered by the LAA be grounded
pending further investigations. All affected owners have been contacted
directly by letter.
Clive Richards
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Help! Zenith Riveter |
Guys (and Gals),
I have the standard issue Zenith pneumatic riveter. I've pulled about 5-6000 rivets
with it and recently it started acting up.
For some reason it takes two squeezes of the trigger to pull an A5 or even an A4.
I've played with the pressure ranging from 60 - 90 PSI ( and even 100Psi to make
sure it wasn't pressure related)
There is no stem stuck in it like I thought there might be.
Oh, one more interesting bit. The first squeeze domes the head and pulls it tight.
Then the next squeeze, BANG! the rivet pulls and a few time it has dented
my skins which is really aggravating. (Luckily I am not working in very visible
places at the moment).
I have dissembled, oiled etc and cant find anything wrong.
Here is the kicker, sometimes when I vary the depth of the screw in heads (adjusting
them in and out) everything works fine for a few rivets.
HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THIS, AND IF SO HOW DO I MAKE IT STOP? Or do I just
go to Harbor Freight and get a new riveter?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214947#214947
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Help! Zenith Riveter |
Is it possible that the parts that grip the stem have started to wear out?
I have the Harborfreight style which is still going strong after two airplanes,
and almost ten years of service. It occasionally does this, but when it does
I just add oil to it and it works like new again.
Regards,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214955#214955
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension |
Rogar, I'll be happy to loan it to you, but if your going to do periodic
checks as I am having one to own is a must, Bill
**************Get the Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news &
p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension |
Why rent when you can buy one for under $200.00 at Aircraft Spruce or Ebay? Considering
the importance of proper cable tension I would think you'd want a tensionometer
of your own to check cable tension every 50 hours or at least every
annual condition inspection. In the grand scheme of things, an investment of
less than $200.00 for the sake of safety is a no-brainer.
Ken Pavlou
--------
601 XL / Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214965#214965
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| Subject: | Re: Help! Zenith Riveter |
Try unscrewing the nose piece a turn. This will change the location on the
rivet stem that makes contact with the puller. I found immediately after
pulling some of the stainless steel rivets to the brake peddles that my
riveter developed a sensitive spot that did not grip as well.
Gary Ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "MHerder" <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:28 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Help! Zenith Riveter
>
> Guys (and Gals),
>
> I have the standard issue Zenith pneumatic riveter. I've pulled about
5-6000 rivets with it and recently it started acting up.
>
> For some reason it takes two squeezes of the trigger to pull an A5 or even
an A4.
>
> I've played with the pressure ranging from 60 - 90 PSI ( and even 100Psi
to make sure it wasn't pressure related)
>
> There is no stem stuck in it like I thought there might be.
>
> Oh, one more interesting bit. The first squeeze domes the head and pulls
it tight. Then the next squeeze, BANG! the rivet pulls and a few time it
has dented my skins which is really aggravating. (Luckily I am not working
in very visible places at the moment).
>
> I have dissembled, oiled etc and cant find anything wrong.
>
> Here is the kicker, sometimes when I vary the depth of the screw in heads
(adjusting them in and out) everything works fine for a few rivets.
>
> HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THIS, AND IF SO HOW DO I MAKE IT STOP? Or do I
just go to Harbor Freight and get a new riveter?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214947#214947
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension |
It takes a man of integrity to admit a mistake. Thank you for sharing this with
the forum.
[quote="japhillipsga(at)aol.com"]Dear 601XL Builders and Flyers, my eyes have been
opened to an issue. All this talk about flutter and cables, etc., led me to
buy a tensionmeter and check the cables in my XL. Wow was I surprised! The aileron
cables were at 17 pounds and the elevator at below 10 pounds. By ZAC they
should have been 30 & 40 pds. I reset them and flew. I was pleased at the difference
in control and response. Now before you think "that just can't happen
to me" I set my cables with my hands plucking them, seemed good and tight.I
have tightened mine twice since I built her. No body has "calibrated" fingers.
I alert you all and hope everybody will check their cables. I had flutter a couple
years ago that scared the poop out of me. Don't want it again or that anybody
should be lost because of it. The cable tester cost about $190. How much
does having a wing come off cost? Best wishes, Bill of Georgia
N505WP
601XL-3300 140 hours
> [b]
--------
Zodiac 601 XL - CZAW Built - Rotax 912S
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214992#214992
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension |
If checking the tension is not very time consuming I would check it very often,
just to be safe.
Considering the importance of the tension, the instrument should be included in
the on board set of tools, I think.
Pramod
--- On Tue, 11/18/08, annken100 <annken100@aol.com> wrote:
> From: annken100 <annken100@aol.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, November 18, 2008, 10:43 AM
> <annken100@aol.com>
>
> Why rent when you can buy one for under $200.00 at Aircraft
> Spruce or Ebay? Considering the importance of proper cable
> tension I would think you'd want a tensionometer of your
> own to check cable tension every 50 hours or at least every
> annual condition inspection. In the grand scheme of things,
> an investment of less than $200.00 for the sake of safety is
> a no-brainer.
>
> Ken Pavlou
>
> --------
> 601 XL / Corvair
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214965#214965
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension |
annken100 wrote:
> In the grand scheme of things, an investment of less than $200.00 for the sake
of safety is a no-brainer.
I didn't give it a second though when I spent 25 times that amount on my BRS.
I started building my XL before all this stuff started happening, so it was a
bit of an expense that I hadn't planned for. But it'll be worth it if I ever
need it...
For what it's worth, I'm also going to make "Check Cable Tension" part of my pre-flight
and I'm going to track it, keeping an eye out for a trend over the passage
of time.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215031#215031
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Help! Zenith Riveter |
My green zenith riveter did the same thing. I can live with the 2 trigger pulls,
but the BANG! and resulting dents I can live without.
I bought a HF riveter and never looked back.
Also have a few hand riveters that come in handy for AS5's.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
601XL/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215032#215032
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Help! Zenith Riveter |
I RETURNED THE NEW ONE THEY SENT ME, IT BLEW THE END OFF JUST MISSING MY
HEAD AND DENTING THE HANGER DOOR. TOO BAD THEY STOP SELLING THE OLD TYPE
(THE YELLOW ONE WITH THE PLASTIC CUPON THE END) THEY ARE GREAT,TRYED TO GET
THEM TO GET ME ONE OF THE OLD ONES ,BUT THEY SAID NO...... JOE N101HD
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Help! Zenith Riveter
>
> Try unscrewing the nose piece a turn. This will change the location on
> the
> rivet stem that makes contact with the puller. I found immediately after
> pulling some of the stainless steel rivets to the brake peddles that my
> riveter developed a sensitive spot that did not grip as well.
>
> Gary Ray
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "MHerder" <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:28 AM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Help! Zenith Riveter
>
>
>> <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
>>
>> Guys (and Gals),
>>
>> I have the standard issue Zenith pneumatic riveter. I've pulled about
> 5-6000 rivets with it and recently it started acting up.
>>
>> For some reason it takes two squeezes of the trigger to pull an A5 or
>> even
> an A4.
>>
>> I've played with the pressure ranging from 60 - 90 PSI ( and even 100Psi
> to make sure it wasn't pressure related)
>>
>> There is no stem stuck in it like I thought there might be.
>>
>> Oh, one more interesting bit. The first squeeze domes the head and pulls
> it tight. Then the next squeeze, BANG! the rivet pulls and a few time it
> has dented my skins which is really aggravating. (Luckily I am not working
> in very visible places at the moment).
>>
>> I have dissembled, oiled etc and cant find anything wrong.
>>
>> Here is the kicker, sometimes when I vary the depth of the screw in heads
> (adjusting them in and out) everything works fine for a few rivets.
>>
>> HAS ANYONE ELSE EXPERIENCED THIS, AND IF SO HOW DO I MAKE IT STOP? Or do
>> I
> just go to Harbor Freight and get a new riveter?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=214947#214947
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Help! Zenith Riveter |
I appreciate everyones input. Sounds like I'm not the only one as I suspected.
I'm going to buy the HF gun but at this point it is a matter of curiosity... What
would make it do such a thing. I HATE NOT BEING ABLE TO FIX SOMETHING!
This should also serve the newcomers, save your money and just go with the HF gun,
I don't like to buy cheap tools so I splurged and bought the hundred dollar
Zenith gun rather than the 30 dollar HF gun. To me it seems that the 30 dollar
HF gun would be able to better reach some areas and many seem to even like
the quality better.
Thanks again to everyone!
PatrickW wrote:
> My green zenith riveter did the same thing. I can live with the 2 trigger pulls,
but the BANG! and resulting dents I can live without.
>
> I bought a HF riveter and never looked back.
>
> Also have a few hand riveters that come in handy for AS5's.
>
> - Pat
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215046#215046
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Help! Zenith Riveter |
IF YOU WANT THE BEST GO TO WWW.FSIRIVET.COM CLICK ON AUTO THEN PT100-C
THIS THING DEVELOPES 4000 LB.@90-120PSI THEY ALSO HAVE A HAND PULL THAT IS
HOT... JOE N101HD
----- Original Message -----
From: "MHerder" <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 5:07 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Help! Zenith Riveter
>
> I appreciate everyones input. Sounds like I'm not the only one as I
> suspected.
>
> I'm going to buy the HF gun but at this point it is a matter of
> curiosity... What would make it do such a thing. I HATE NOT BEING ABLE TO
> FIX SOMETHING!
>
> This should also serve the newcomers, save your money and just go with the
> HF gun, I don't like to buy cheap tools so I splurged and bought the
> hundred dollar Zenith gun rather than the 30 dollar HF gun. To me it
> seems that the 30 dollar HF gun would be able to better reach some areas
> and many seem to even like the quality better.
>
> Thanks again to everyone!
>
>
> PatrickW wrote:
>> My green zenith riveter did the same thing. I can live with the 2
>> trigger pulls, but the BANG! and resulting dents I can live without.
>>
>> I bought a HF riveter and never looked back.
>>
>> Also have a few hand riveters that come in handy for AS5's.
>>
>> - Pat
>
>
> --------
> One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215046#215046
>
>
>
Message 14
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Just had another thought as I am studying my plans and the aileron and
rudder cables are shown going through fairleads and changing directions. I
was under the impression that you should always use a pulley to change the
direction of a cable, and that a fairlead was just to stop vibration or the
cable striking parts it shouldn't. Even just a minor direction change in a
cable under tension running through a 1/8" thick piece of nylon is going to
cut into it and release the tension as it does, and may be contributing to
the tensioning issues being discussed.
Message 15
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On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 4:44 PM, Dirk Zahtilla <ideaz1@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Even just a minor direction change in a cable under tension running through a
> 1/8" thick piece of nylon is going to cut into it and release the tension as
it
> does, and may be contributing to the tensioning issues being discussed.
This one is relatively easy to test given the right materials. It
should be easy to construct a geometrically correct model of one of
the setups by screwing some stuff to some 2x4s or whatever, tension it
to 30 pounds, move the cable back and forth a few times, and then
recheck the tension and examine the fairlead. Any Zenith builder might
already have (or have access to) excess cable and maybe even pulleys,
and fairlead material.
Ihab
--
Ihab A.B. Awad, Palo Alto, CA
Message 16
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"I was under the impression that you should always use a pulley to change the direction
of a cable..."
AC 43.13 allows a 3 degree change of direction using a fair-lead (7-149n)
Although the plans exceed this in some instances, adding additional fair-leads
is easy to do to remain under 3 degrees although a pulley would be best for tension
issues.
(Ihab, the 3D printer idea was very useful--I may have my first prototype part
by 12/4! Thanks!)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215084#215084
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension |
Bill
It turns out a mechanic buddy of mine has one, but thanks for the offer !!!!
Roger
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith- Alert To Aileron Cable Tension
Rogar, I'll be happy to loan it to you, but if your going to do periodic
checks as I am having one to own is a must, Bill
_____
Get
p://toolbar.aol.com/moviefone/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000001> the
Moviefone Toolbar. Showtimes, theaters, movie news & more!
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Help! Zenith Riveter |
The site, FSIRIVET.COM is down or the URL is bad.
Leo Gates
N601Z
Southern Reflections wrote:
> <purplemoon99@bellsouth.net>
>
> IF YOU WANT THE BEST GO TO WWW.FSIRIVET.COM CLICK ON AUTO THEN
> PT100-C THIS THING DEVELOPES 4000 LB.@90-120PSI THEY ALSO HAVE A HAND
> PULL THAT IS HOT... JOE N101HD
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "MHerder"
> <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 5:07 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Help! Zenith Riveter
>
>
>> <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
>>
>> I appreciate everyones input. Sounds like I'm not the only one as I
>> suspected.
>>
>> I'm going to buy the HF gun but at this point it is a matter of
>> curiosity... What would make it do such a thing. I HATE NOT BEING
>> ABLE TO FIX SOMETHING!
>>
>> This should also serve the newcomers, save your money and just go
>> with the HF gun, I don't like to buy cheap tools so I splurged and
>> bought the hundred dollar Zenith gun rather than the 30 dollar HF
>> gun. To me it seems that the 30 dollar HF gun would be able to
>> better reach some areas and many seem to even like the quality better.
>>
>> Thanks again to everyone!
>>
>>
>> PatrickW wrote:
>>> My green zenith riveter did the same thing. I can live with the 2
>>> trigger pulls, but the BANG! and resulting dents I can live without.
>>>
>>> I bought a HF riveter and never looked back.
>>>
>>> Also have a few hand riveters that come in handy for AS5's.
>>>
>>> - Pat
>>
>>
>> --------
>> One Rivet at a Time!
>>
Message 19
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My airplane has over 250 hours on it and there is no sign of wear on
the fairleads. That fairlead material is tough stuff. Fairleads are OK
for small changes of direction of a few degrees. A large change of
direction does require a pulley.
On Nov 18, 2008, at 7:44 PM, Dirk Zahtilla wrote:
> >
>
> Just had another thought as I am studying my plans and the aileron
> and rudder cables are shown going through fairleads and changing
> directions. I was under the impression that you should always use a
> pulley to change the direction of a cable, and that a fairlead was
> just to stop vibration or the cable striking parts it shouldn't.
> Even just a minor direction change in a cable under tension running
> through a 1/8" thick piece of nylon is going to cut into it and
> release the tension as it does, and may be contributing to the
> tensioning issues being discussed.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Help! Zenith Riveter |
SORRY LEO THERE IS A / AFTER COM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Leo Gates" <leo@zuehlfield.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Help! Zenith Riveter
>
> The site, FSIRIVET.COM is down or the URL is bad.
>
> Leo Gates
> N601Z
>
> Southern Reflections wrote:
>> <purplemoon99@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> IF YOU WANT THE BEST GO TO WWW.FSIRIVET.COM CLICK ON AUTO THEN
>> PT100-C THIS THING DEVELOPES 4000 LB.@90-120PSI THEY ALSO HAVE A HAND
>> PULL THAT IS HOT... JOE N101HD
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "MHerder"
>> <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 5:07 PM
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Help! Zenith Riveter
>>
>>
>>> <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
>>>
>>> I appreciate everyones input. Sounds like I'm not the only one as I
>>> suspected.
>>>
>>> I'm going to buy the HF gun but at this point it is a matter of
>>> curiosity... What would make it do such a thing. I HATE NOT BEING
>>> ABLE TO FIX SOMETHING!
>>>
>>> This should also serve the newcomers, save your money and just go
>>> with the HF gun, I don't like to buy cheap tools so I splurged and
>>> bought the hundred dollar Zenith gun rather than the 30 dollar HF
>>> gun. To me it seems that the 30 dollar HF gun would be able to
>>> better reach some areas and many seem to even like the quality better.
>>>
>>> Thanks again to everyone!
>>>
>>>
>>> PatrickW wrote:
>>>> My green zenith riveter did the same thing. I can live with the 2
>>>> trigger pulls, but the BANG! and resulting dents I can live without.
>>>>
>>>> I bought a HF riveter and never looked back.
>>>>
>>>> Also have a few hand riveters that come in handy for AS5's.
>>>>
>>>> - Pat
>>>
>>>
>>> --------
>>> One Rivet at a Time!
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Help! Zenith Riveter |
Greetings,
My experience with manual blind rivet pullers is that when they give the
problems you describe it is caused by the teeth on the jaws getting "dull".
If you look at the pulled stems they may show that the jaws slipped some
distance on the stem before they got a grip and started to pull. Sometimes
when this happens you will see a buildup of aluminum in the jaws when you
disassemble the puller. I have never had much luck reconditioning the
parts.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
"Hope for the best,
but prepare for the worst."
----- Original Message -----
From: "MHerder" <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 4:07 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Help! Zenith Riveter
>
> I appreciate everyones input. Sounds like I'm not the only one as I
> suspected.
>
> I'm going to buy the HF gun but at this point it is a matter of
> curiosity... What would make it do such a thing. I HATE NOT BEING ABLE TO
> FIX SOMETHING!
>
> This should also serve the newcomers, save your money and just go with the
> HF gun, I don't like to buy cheap tools so I splurged and bought the
> hundred dollar Zenith gun rather than the 30 dollar HF gun. To me it
> seems that the 30 dollar HF gun would be able to better reach some areas
> and many seem to even like the quality better.
>
> Thanks again to everyone!
>
>
> PatrickW wrote:
>> My green zenith riveter did the same thing. I can live with the 2
>> trigger pulls, but the BANG! and resulting dents I can live without.
>>
>> I bought a HF riveter and never looked back.
>>
>> Also have a few hand riveters that come in handy for AS5's.
>>
>> - Pat
>
>
> --------
> One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215046#215046
>
>
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