Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: Zenith-List Digest: (steve)
2. 06:47 AM - Nicopress Tool Gauge (Don Mountain)
3. 07:19 AM - Re: questions about Michelin S38 tires for CH601HDS (LarryMcFarland)
4. 07:27 AM - Re: Nicopress Tool Gauge (LarryMcFarland)
5. 08:27 AM - Re: ch701 Plans (gotosteven)
6. 08:46 AM - Re: Jabiru 3300A engine mount (DaveG601XL)
7. 08:51 AM - Chat Reminder (George Race)
8. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: ch701 Plans (Dirk Zahtilla)
9. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: ch701 Plans (Flydog1966@aol.com)
10. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: ch701 Plans (Bob Collins)
11. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: ch701 Plans (jaybannist@cs.com)
12. 11:06 AM - Re: Re: ch701 Plans (steve)
13. 11:52 AM - Re: ch701 Plans (gotosteven)
14. 11:57 AM - Re: ch701 Plans (gotosteven)
15. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: ch701 Plans (Roger & Lina Hill)
16. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: ch701 Plans (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
17. 12:20 PM - Re: ch701 Plans (pavel569)
18. 02:01 PM - Re: Re: ch701 Plans (ZodieRocket)
19. 02:41 PM - On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (MHerder)
20. 02:54 PM - Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (Gig Giacona)
21. 02:57 PM - Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (MHerder)
22. 03:06 PM - Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
23. 03:08 PM - Re: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (jaybannist@cs.com)
24. 03:37 PM - Re: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (Juan Vega)
25. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (Juan Vega)
26. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (Juan Vega)
27. 03:41 PM - Re: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (Juan Vega)
28. 03:45 PM - Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (Juan Vega)
29. 03:46 PM - Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (Juan Vega)
30. 03:48 PM - Re: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (jaybannist@cs.com)
31. 06:49 PM - 12 GAL. LEFT FUEL TANK FOR 601XL. (tjlhl)
32. 07:22 PM - Re: Aircraft Control Cable (to stretch or not) (jerry Shepaed)
33. 07:32 PM - Re: Aircraft Control Cable (to stretch or not) (Paul Mulwitz)
34. 07:42 PM - Re: ch701 Plans (kmccune)
35. 07:59 PM - Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (Gig Giacona)
36. 08:08 PM - Re: ch701 Plans (gotosteven)
37. 09:09 PM - Re: ch701 Plans (gotosteven)
38. 09:12 PM - Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac (Sabrina)
39. 09:47 PM - Re: ch701 Plans (gotosteven)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: |
>From about one year ago or so: I say again. Elbie Knows.
There are engineers with calculators and there is Elbie. I trust Elbie.
And, if you want the best angle of attack indicator, contact Elbie.
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: EMAproducts@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 9:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith-List Digest:
Zenith-List: Aircraft Control Cable (to stretch or not)
Gentlemen:
As a pilot for 48 years, I have never heard of aircraft cables being
checked hot and cold to insure they are safe! Yes, if you assemble your
aircraft in Alaska at -40 degrees, then fly to Death Valley at +120
degrees you might have some bent pieces in your plane, however I am sure
that if you are comfortable working in your shop when you do your cable
tension you don't have to worry about it. As the plane expands more
than the cables they will get tighter in the hot weather, and slacken
just a bit in the cold weather. I've owned the same aircraft for nearly
20 years (Cherokee 180) and the manual just gives this: Rudder,
Ailerons,Stabilizer 40 +/- 5# ; Stabilator trim 5 +/- 1# ; Flap 10 +/-
2#. Notice the trim is the most critical. There is no mention of
temperature limits when rigging.
Elbie Mendenhall
CFI since '62; EAA 38308
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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| Subject: | Nicopress Tool Gauge |
I purchased a Nicopress type tool from Lowe's, and it didn't come with a ga
uge tool to check the compressions.- Can someone please measure the gap o
n their 1/8" Nicopress Tool gauge with a vernier caliper or inside micromet
er and let me know what it measures so I can produce one? Thanks.
Don Mountain
601XL
Installing cables
=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: questions about Michelin S38 tires for CH601HDS |
Hi Roy,
I have a 1300 lb gross limit on the plane. Very seldom fly loaded past
1250 lbs. The S-83 tire load-rating is very conservative, probably
greater by 50%, because
they are used on two wheel motor scooters and a tire failure (i.e.
liability) would put the rider on the ground rather quickly. The tires I
use are the same and I'd consider the rating adequate for any HDS. They
have 125 hours on them with no perceptible wear. The S-83 (not S38) is a
very high quality tire with good sidewalls and fit for the
Matco 4 x 8 wheel. Do use inner tubes with the bent stems to assure
that you're not dependent on a tubeless assembly.
I initially had problems with the tube stems during assembly because the
edges of the wheel stem holes were sharp and I had to round edges off
and add a 1/16th x 1-1/2 diameter rubber washer with an I.D, the size
of the stem. Beyond that and pressuring back up to 24 lbs each since
cold weather, I've had no problems.
see links,
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/tubetireandwasher.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/tubewasherassy.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/pantforkbracketrh.gif
Note the fit of the tire and proportions, which are very good for this
wheel.
(Disregard the pant fork bracket as it's changed that to a better design)
I think you'll like these tires,
Larry McFarland
Roy Thoma wrote:
> Larry,
>
> I have a set of Michelin S38 tires for my CH601HDS and have delayed
> installing them because the max load rating of is 375 lbs. I'm curious
> if the S38's you use have the same max load rating? Obviously 3 x 375
> is 1125lbs, 75lbs less than the recommended gross weight for the HDS
> and 175lbs than the gross weight for my HDS.
>
> What is the gross weight for your HDS? Are there standard margins for
> tires that make you comfortable to exceed the max load rating of the
> tires? Is there something else I'm missing?
>
> I hope this does not sound like I'm criticizing your choice to use
> these tires; I am interested in using them also. I admire the work you
> did building and flying your HDS. Thanks for your
> continued contributions to the community. Feel free to post my
> question and your answer to the Matronics site if you feel it is
> appropriate.
>
> Regards,
>
> Roy Thoma
>
> N601RT: 2002 CH601HDS, nose gear, Rotax 912ULS, All electric, IFR
> equipped, 1080hrs
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| Subject: | Re: Nicopress Tool Gauge |
Hi Don,
The go-gage for my 1/8th inch cable nico-press is .355 or smaller
diameter. See link,
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/crimpngage.gif
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Don Mountain wrote:
> I purchased a Nicopress type tool from Lowe's, and it didn't come with
> a gauge tool to check the compressions. Can someone please measure
> the gap on their 1/8" Nicopress Tool gauge with a vernier caliper or
> inside micrometer and let me know what it measures so I can produce
> one? Thanks.
>
> Don Mountain
> 601XL
> Installing cables
>
>
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thanks for the great advise i do realize you guys are worried when i say scrap,
but that is why i am oversizeing many things as possible eg if it says 0.25 i
use 0.40 if it says 1 L bracket i will put 2 back to back as for the bolts i
will be purchaseing the proper ones i also have very nice plates of alluminim
like 1/2 inch thick and 3/4 inch thick i am sure will be usefull as well
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217170#217170
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru 3300A engine mount |
Steve,
I can't say that I have ever noticed any Jabiru engine movement that concerned
me. But I have been in the cockpit for every second that my engine has run so
it is only one point of view.
I will look closer the next time I do run it.
--------
David Gallagher
601 XL/Jabiru 3300
First flight 7/24/08
Phase I flight test complete 10/16/08
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217172#217172
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Please join us for the Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM
Eastern Time.
<blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::http://www.mykitairpl
ane.com/chat/> http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
George
Do Not Archive
Message 8
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Hi Steven, I know you're probably getting tired of being lectured to but a
group like this is behind you and also very concerned for your safety. Re:
the aluminum you use, I'm familiar with scrap yards too and for your project
I just reccomend that you look for the alloy designation right after the
thickness. You should be looking for 6061 T6. You could also use 2024 T3 (
which is actually stronger) If you cannot find one of these designations
printed on the sheet DON'T USE IT!!! If you should use an alloy that is T0
it is annealed and very soft(try this in a wing spar or wing skin and it
will fold up on you as soon as you get a load on it!)This will eliminate the
need for thicker material which might still not be of the same strength even
though it is almost twice as thick.
Dirk Z Carson City Nv. ideaz1@sbcglobal.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "gotosteven" <gotosteven@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 8:26 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ch701 Plans
>
> thanks for the great advise i do realize you guys are worried when i say
> scrap, but that is why i am oversizeing many things as possible eg if it
> says 0.25 i use 0.40 if it says 1 L bracket i will put 2 back to back as
> for the bolts i will be purchaseing the proper ones i also have very nice
> plates of alluminim like 1/2 inch thick and 3/4 inch thick i am sure will
> be usefull as well
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217170#217170
>
>
>
Message 9
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That's an excellent idea.
In a message dated 12/1/2008 11:28:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
gotosteven@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gotosteven" <gotosteven@hotmail.com>
thanks for the great advise i do realize you guys are worried when i say
scrap, but that is why i am oversizeing many things as possible eg if it says
0.25 i use 0.40 if it says 1 L bracket i will put 2 back to back as for the
bolts i will be purchaseing the proper ones i also have very nice plates of
alluminim like 1/2 inch thick and 3/4 inch thick i am sure will be usefull as
well
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217170#217170
**************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW
AOL.com.
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I'm sorry, but sarcasm doesn't convey well in text. We have a naive and
confused young man who would very much like to build something and I
would hope that he might get some useful advice but, at worst, he
shouldn't be made fun of.
Bob Collins
CH750 plans waiting
Flydog1966@aol.com wrote:
> That's an excellent idea.
>
> In a message dated 12/1/2008 11:28:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> gotosteven@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
> <gotosteven@hotmail.com>
>
> thanks for the great advise i do realize you guys are worried when
> i say scrap, but that is why i am oversizeing many things as
> possible eg if it says 0.25 i use 0.40 if it says 1 L bracket i
> will put 2 back to back as for the bolts i will be purchaseing the
> proper ones i also have very nice plates of alluminim like 1/2
> inch thick and 3/4 inch thick i am sure will be usefull as well
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217170#217170
>
>
Message 11
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Bob,
I agree.? However, I don't think this young man understands the serious nature
of this project he wants to undertake.? 1) Building an airplane is absolutely
not like building a kid's pedal car from scrap aluminum, 2) An airplane design
is a VERY complicated thing, not to be "thumb-ruled" or "by guess and by goshed",
? 3) Unless it is the proper alloy and temper (6061-T6 or 2024-T4), scrap
aluminum has no place in an airplane, 4) simply oversizing does not ensure safety,?
5) a haphazard approach to constructing an airplane can result in DEATH.
I feel that Steven's approach to this project is MUCH too casual and is potentially
dangerous. I am afraid for him.
I would like to encourage Steven to do some serious study and investigation about
airplane building before attempting to build an airplane from a tattered, out
of date, partial set of design drawings, trying to guess at the missing parts
and adlibbing with available? materials, simply because they are available.
Jay In Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Collins <bobcollins42@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: ch701 Plans
?
I'm sorry, but sarcasm doesn't convey well in text. We have a naive and
confused young man who would very much like to build something and I
would hope that he might get some useful advice but, at worst, he
shouldn't be made fun of.?
?
Bob Collins?
CH750 plans waiting?
?
Flydog1966@aol.com wrote:?
> That's an excellent idea.?
>
> In a message dated 12/1/2008 11:28:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> gotosteven@HOTMAIL.COM writes:?
>?
> <gotosteven@hotmail.com>?
>?
> thanks for the great advise i do realize you guys are worried when?
> i say scrap, but that is why i am oversizeing many things as?
> possible eg if it says 0.25 i use 0.40 if it says 1 L bracket i?
> will put 2 back to back as for the bolts i will be purchaseing the?
> proper ones i also have very nice plates of alluminim like 1/2?
> inch thick and 3/4 inch thick i am sure will be usefull as well?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> Read this topic online here:?
>?
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217170#217170?
>?
>?
>?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 12
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When you complete you "aircraft", please tell us when and where you will
test fly it We want to watch. Or maybe not..
----- Original Message -----
From: "gotosteven" <gotosteven@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 9:26 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ch701 Plans
>
> thanks for the great advise i do realize you guys are worried when i say
> scrap, but that is why i am oversizeing many things as possible eg if it
> says 0.25 i use 0.40 if it says 1 L bracket i will put 2 back to back as
> for the bolts i will be purchaseing the proper ones i also have very nice
> plates of alluminim like 1/2 inch thick and 3/4 inch thick i am sure will
> be usefull as well
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217170#217170
>
>
>
Message 13
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well good news is lots of the stuff i have collected does have 2024 T3 rate on
it some of the stuff i had i had to part with due to not being sure
as for the design of the oversizing smaller stuff like 025 is just not available
040 is plentiful so that is defenatly one of main reasons behind that also i
have 100% faith in my father in laws skills and i am not such a noob myself as
i have built dunebuggy and gocart before
well if anyone is truely intrested in watching me fly or help me build it i will
be building it at 432 webber road pelham ontario canada right acroos the road
from welland private airport
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217200#217200
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some of us color inside the lines other like to paint a masterpiece laugh all you
want
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217202#217202
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I think you can build a plane of WOOD from scrap, if you know what your
looking for and oversize questionable pieces, but the Zenith line uses the
thinnest aluminum I have ever seen on a plane, and I agree it's critical to
use metal at least as strong as the 6061, and only if it is heat treated to
the proper levels as this makes a big difference in the strength as well.
If you go with 2024 aluminum, you have the corrosion problem to account for
as well
Roger
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jaybannist@cs.com
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: ch701 Plans
Bob,
I agree. However, I don't think this young man understands the serious
nature of this project he wants to undertake. 1) Building an airplane is
absolutely not like building a kid's pedal car from scrap aluminum, 2) An
airplane design is a VERY complicated thing, not to be "thumb-ruled" or "by
guess and by goshed", 3) Unless it is the proper alloy and temper (6061-T6
or 2024-T4), scrap aluminum has no place in an airplane, 4) simply
oversizing does not ensure safety, 5) a haphazard approach to constructing
an airplane can result in DEATH.
I feel that Steven's approach to this project is MUCH too casual and is
potentially dangerous. I am afraid for him.
I would like to encourage Steven to do some serious study and investigation
about airplane building before attempting to build an airplane from a
tattered, out of date, partial set of design drawings, trying to guess at
the missing parts and adlibbing with available materials, simply because
they are available.
Jay In Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Collins <bobcollins42@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:17 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: ch701 Plans
I'm sorry, but sarcasm doesn't convey well in text. We have a naive and
confused young man who would very much like to build something and I would
hope that he might get some useful advice but, at worst, he shouldn't be
made fun of.
Bob Collins
CH750 plans waiting
Flydog1966@aol.com wrote:
> That's an excellent idea.
> > In a message dated 12/1/2008 11:28:31 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >
gotosteven@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
> <gotosteven@hotmail.com>
>
> thanks for the great advise i do realize you guys are worried when
> i say scrap, but that is why i am oversizeing many things as
> possible eg if it says 0.25 i use 0.40 if it says 1 L bracket i
> will put 2 back to back as for the bolts i will be purchaseing the
> proper ones i also have very nice plates of alluminim like 1/2
> inch thick and 3/4 inch thick i am sure will be usefull as well
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217170#217170
>
>
>
_____
size=2 width="100%" align=center>
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
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Would suggest you contact your local EAA and talk to them. If you are
planning on using .040 for the skin, not sure the aircraft will get off the ground
due to it's wt. Jerry of GA DO NOT ARCHIVE
In a message dated 12/1/2008 2:54:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
gotosteven@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "gotosteven" <gotosteven@hotmail.com>
well good news is lots of the stuff i have collected does have 2024 T3 rate
on it some of the stuff i had i had to part with due to not being sure
as for the design of the oversizing smaller stuff like 025 is just not
available 040 is plentiful so that is defenatly one of main reasons behind that
also i have 100% faith in my father in laws skills and i am not such a noob
myself as i have built dunebuggy and gocart before
well if anyone is truely intrested in watching me fly or help me build it i
will be building it at 432 webber road pelham ontario canada right acroos
the road from welland private airport
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217200#217200
**************Finally, one site has it all: your friends, your email, your
com40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000006)
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Steven,
99% of us are not laughing. We're just worry about potential disaster that could
happen. Every airplane is very carefully designed , very complex machine that,
not like a gocart, is purposed to fly. Every change of material as thickness
or type can lead to a breakup. Oversizing will cause change of CG and the plane
can be hard to balance properly. Just be careful and try to talk a show what
you do to someone with an airplane under his/her belt first. Nobody wants you
to quit building your dream, we just want you to fly it safely for many years
to come.
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PM (Reserved)
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table ....
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Steven, please please, drive 45 min north to Kitchener /Waterloo
international airport and visit with me for a bit, I applaud your desire
for building an aircraft and I am willing to offer advice in your
endeavor. However, I am apprehensive on some of the things you have
stated. For your STOL 701 to be a basic UL in Canada It must conform to
the plans and you will need to use your serial # from those plans to
register your plane so a owned set of plans is necessary . IF it was a
kit you would need to come to me for a Statement of conformity also. If
you plan on registering your plane in the homebuilt category then you
will need to have inspections from the MD-RA and as such you will need
to prove material will once again match the plans in thickness and
composition.
The plans you have at present are likely a very old set and over 200
changes have happened since 98 - 08 about 21 of them structural. I have
3 701's in the hanger right now and parts of the 750 and a 650. Come up
for a visit and bring your parts for me to look over ( no charge for
time ). If you are making ribs and such out of .040 material then I can
guarantee that the material is not acceptable or the part will not be
acceptable, but I will be more then happy for you to prove me wrong. IF
I am right then I will explain how you can make it right.
AS for you abilities, I trust you can do this and believe that you have
the ability, but keep in mind that your life in a dune buggy and go cart
is not in jeopardy if you have made small errors, if the engine stops or
the bumper falls off then you just tow it home. In a plane you have a
problem and you have to answer to gravity which is the least forgiving
forces on this earth.
Also I am reading more into your letters, but I am pretty sure that at
this point you do not have a license or permit to fly your plane.
Therefore, training is in order and I will be offering UL training in
the 701 and 650 in the spring. Once again another reason to come up for
a visit, you are not allowed to fly in Canada in any aircraft without
registration/training/ proof of liability insurance. I receive calls
quite often from the latter for proof of ownership and construction.
Mark Townsend
Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.
519-590-7601 www.canzac.ca
Canadian Dealer for Zenith Aircraft Kits, Zenair Designs.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gotosteven
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 2:50 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ch701 Plans
well good news is lots of the stuff i have collected does have 2024 T3
rate on it some of the stuff i had i had to part with due to not being
sure
as for the design of the oversizing smaller stuff like 025 is just not
available 040 is plentiful so that is defenatly one of main reasons
behind that also i have 100% faith in my father in laws skills and i am
not such a noob myself as i have built dunebuggy and gocart before
well if anyone is truely intrested in watching me fly or help me build
it i will be building it at 432 webber road pelham ontario canada right
acroos the road from welland private airport
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217200#217200
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| Subject: | On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
I hope this link works.
http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/01/1685159.aspx
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217222#217222
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
That is fantastic but assuming that was really the first flight can anyone find
the FAR violation?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217225#217225
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
I thought the same with two folks in the plane and all...
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217226#217226
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
Did I see two people in this aircraft for it's first flight? Jerry of GA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
In a message dated 12/1/2008 5:42:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
michaelherder@beckgroup.com writes:
http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/01/1685159.aspx
**************Finally, one site has it all: your friends, your email, your
favorite sites. Try the NEW AOL.com.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
The way I got the original story, Juan Vega was actually the instigator and mentor.?
He was also the pilot, not the safety pilot.? Even though I thoroughly
disagree with it, I have been told many times, emphatically, that having two people
in the airplane before the 40 hour (or in some cases 25 hour) test period
has been flown off is a violation of the regulations for an experimental airplane.
Jay in Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 4:53 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
That is fantastic but assuming that was really the first flight can anyone find
the FAR violation?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217225#217225
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
Gig, what do you mean by FAR violation? there was none by what I remember.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>Sent: Dec 1, 2008 5:53 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
>
>
>That is fantastic but assuming that was really the first flight can anyone find
the FAR violation?
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217225#217225
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
GUys,
The Head of the FAA was there, gave the preflight inspection and gave me the pilot
in command authorization for one touch and go around the airport. special
airworthiness certificate signed off by the head of the regional FAA. This plane
is signed off by the FAA to have only 15 hours to fly off. Both me and another
pilot who is an FAA inspector willl fly off the hours.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: jaybannist@cs.com
>Sent: Dec 1, 2008 6:07 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
>
>
> The way I got the original story, Juan Vega was actually the instigator and mentor.?
He was also the pilot, not the safety pilot.? Even though I thoroughly
disagree with it, I have been told many times, emphatically, that having two
people in the airplane before the 40 hour (or in some cases 25 hour) test period
has been flown off is a violation of the regulations for an experimental airplane.
>
>Jay in Dallas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 4:53 pm
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
>
>
>
>That is fantastic but assuming that was really the first flight can anyone find
>the FAR violation?
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217225#217225
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
GUys,
The Head of the FAA was there, gave the preflight inspection and gave me the pilot
in command authorization for one touch and go around the airport. special
airworthiness certificate signed off by the head of the regional FAA. This plane
is signed off by the FAA to have only 15 hours to fly off. Both me and another
pilot who is an FAA inspector willl fly off the hours.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: jaybannist@cs.com
>Sent: Dec 1, 2008 6:07 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
>
>
> The way I got the original story, Juan Vega was actually the instigator and mentor.?
He was also the pilot, not the safety pilot.? Even though I thoroughly
disagree with it, I have been told many times, emphatically, that having two
people in the airplane before the 40 hour (or in some cases 25 hour) test period
has been flown off is a violation of the regulations for an experimental airplane.
>
>Jay in Dallas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 4:53 pm
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
>
>
>
>That is fantastic but assuming that was really the first flight can anyone find
>the FAR violation?
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217225#217225
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
GUys,
The Head of the FAA was there, gave the preflight inspection and gave me the pilot
in command authorization for one touch and go around the airport. special
airworthiness certificate signed off by the head of the regional FAA. This plane
is signed off by the FAA to have only 15 hours to fly off. Both me and another
pilot who is an FAA inspector willl fly off the hours.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: jaybannist@cs.com
>Sent: Dec 1, 2008 6:07 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
>
>
> The way I got the original story, Juan Vega was actually the instigator and mentor.?
He was also the pilot, not the safety pilot.? Even though I thoroughly
disagree with it, I have been told many times, emphatically, that having two
people in the airplane before the 40 hour (or in some cases 25 hour) test period
has been flown off is a violation of the regulations for an experimental airplane.
>
>Jay in Dallas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 4:53 pm
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
>
>
>
>That is fantastic but assuming that was really the first flight can anyone find
>the FAR violation?
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217225#217225
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
yes you did. signed off by FAA regional head. plane has 15 hour fly off. we
also got a special certificate for flight without a transponder in a class B area
as well.
flight was restricted to twice round the patch. I will fly off the hours with
one other guy who happens to be the FAA inspector.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeyoung65@aol.com
>Sent: Dec 1, 2008 6:05 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
>
>Did I see two people in this aircraft for it's first flight? Jerry of GA
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>In a message dated 12/1/2008 5:42:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>michaelherder@beckgroup.com writes:
>
>http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/01/1685159.aspx
>
>**************Finally, one site has it all: your friends, your email, your
>favorite sites. Try the NEW AOL.com.
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
thanx Herder, i recieved the video from NBC and CNN.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: MHerder <michaelherder@beckgroup.com>
>Sent: Dec 1, 2008 5:41 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
>
>
>I hope this link works.
>
>http://fieldnotes.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/01/1685159.aspx
>
>--------
>One Rivet at a Time!
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217222#217222
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
Juan,
Knowing you, I assumed that was the case.? However, the FAA guys around here probably
would not have cut you that slack.
Jay in Dallas
-----Original Message-----
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 5:41 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
GUys,
The Head of the FAA was there, gave the preflight inspection and gave me the
pilot in command authorization for one touch and go around the airport. special
airworthiness certificate signed off by the head of the regional FAA. This
plane is signed off by the FAA to have only 15 hours to fly off. Both me and
another pilot who is an FAA inspector willl fly off the hours.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: jaybannist@cs.com
>Sent: Dec 1, 2008 6:07 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
>
>
> The way I got the original story, Juan Vega was actually the instigator and
mentor.? He was also the pilot, not the safety pilot.? Even though I thoroughly
disagree with it, I have been told many times, emphatically, that having two
people in the airplane before the 40 hour (or in some cases 25 hour) test period
has been flown off is a violation of the regulations for an experimental
airplane.
>
>Jay in Dallas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 4:53 pm
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac
>
>
>
>That is fantastic but assuming that was really the first flight can anyone find
>the FAR violation?
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217225#217225
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | 12 GAL. LEFT FUEL TANK FOR 601XL. |
FOR SALE---LEFT 12 GALLON FUEL TANK FOR 601XL. MODIFIED TO FLUSH MOUNT
FILLER THREADED ASSEMBLY AND HAS MOUNTING HOLE CUT IN IB END FOR THE VDO
GAGE SENDER. (WITHOUT LID, BUY FROM ZAC OR SPRUCE). $225.00 PLUS
SHIPPING. i HAVE A BOX TO SHIP IT IN. TOM LOFTIN, CELL NUMBER
816-699-5221.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Control Cable (to stretch or not) |
I have a scary story to tell about control cables:
I used a very expensive nicropress tool to do my cables for my 701, used the
gauge and thought all was well.
One day before my first flight, I had my shoulders up in the access hole in
the bottom of the airplane, stressed one of the cables for the elevator and
it let loose!!!!---Needless to say I was really dumbfounded and worried as
to what had happened. I later found out after I had built some test cables
and placed them under a load of 1500# , that I had used the wrong gauge . I
would recommend that everyone who makes up cables test and verify their
process. May the angels watch over you as they did me. I am quite certain
that a 701 is very difficult to fly with only elevator trim for control.
Jerry Shepard.Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 4:44 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Aircraft Control Cable (to stretch or not)
>
> FYI
>
> Today I called my mentor and asked about stretch in the cables. After
> much listening I came away with the realization that I won't be conducting
> a pre-stretch because that has already happened in the manufacturing
> process.
>
> He did however maintain that checking the tension periodically is
> necessary. The major factors effecting the tension are temperature
> variation from the last check and wear of the fair leads/pulleys.
>
> Comparing the expansion coefficients of both:
>
> Aluminum 12.3
> Steel 7.3
>
> You can see Aluminum expands and contracts 5 times that of Steel. So if
> you tension your cables on an 80 degree day you can bet they will need it
> again on a 0 degree day in the winter. Just some thoughts.
>
> I checked the cable I got from ACS and it is MIL-DTL-83420 with a red and
> gold filament.
>
>
>> There are two easy identification methods that may help you identify
>> aircraft control cable:
>>
>> (1) All MIL-DTL-83420 contains a two-color tracer filament embeded within
>> the cable that identifies the manufacturer,
>> (2) All MIL-DTL-83420 cable sold on a shipping real must contain the
>> identification number of the manufacturing reel. (All MIL-DTL-83420 cable
>> is lubricated with a corrosion inhibiter.)
>>
>
>
> So Gig, Don't wait for me to set up a test. Keep building.
>
> --------
> Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
> WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
> Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=216912#216912
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Control Cable (to stretch or not) |
How about the pilot who actually landed a DC-10 with no controls at
all except throttles. It was a crash caused by loss of the rear door
which took out all the hydraulics that ended up somewhere in Iowa (I
think). There was some loss of life but lots of survivors.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 07:21 PM 12/1/2008, you wrote:
>I am quite certain that a 701 is very difficult to fly with only
>elevator trim for control. Jerry Shepard.Original Message -----
>From: "Ron Lendon" <rlendon@comcast.net>
Message 34
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Steven,
I have been following this post, for you to have even tried this on your own is
a pretty big accomplishment. But like others have said the exact materials have
to be used in order for the airframe to be what the designer intended. Yes
some substitutions are made from time to time, but only after consulting with
the designer or the designers representative. That would be Mark Townsend. in
your case. If you don't ask the designer, you may end up with something that could
be extremely dangerous to fly. And like said about dune-buggies I don't worry
too much about my dirt bike, because the worse that will usually happen is
I get to walk back to the truck. If my 701 fails( well when I finish it) bad
things could happen to me and my family.
I don't think that anyone is laughing at you at all, I did think at first that
it was someone trying to scam free plans. But it seems that you are what you claim.
And as such you should bee vary proud of your accomplishment thus far. Please
though, take Mark up on his offer. ( heck I'd take him up on his offer to
you if I lived closer!) You can trust him for a fair evaluation of your work
and for good advise on changes to make or skills to sharpen.
If you go see Mark and are still interested post here that you did and I'll send
you my copy of the scratch building basic video. I don't need it any more and
it is really pretty good information on building a 701 rudder and had to properly
do it from flat stock aluminum.
Check up on those plans, if they are not unused plans, you can post on this site
and on Barnstormers for unused ones. With the CH750 I think some will be for
sale. Sorry I'm too far into the 701 to give mine up!!:^(
Best of luck to you and please, take Mark up on his offer.
Kevin
--------
Mark Twain: Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that
you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217270#217270
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
Juan you didn't get enough credit in the story. In fact you got so little that
I didn't even realize it was your program.
You are lucky that you have an FAA regional head that understands that the rules
need to get modified from time to time to "promote aviation" which is one of
the stated goals of the FAA.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217272#217272
Message 36
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well mabee i just will take you up on that let me try and arrange for a car ride.
or mabee i will take the train. i am going to talk with my mother i know she
has to go that way next weekend or the weekend after
regardless i will try my best to see about a ride and try and get thare before
x-mas if its alright
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217275#217275
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flat stock aluminum. this is the second time i have heard this mentioned my father
in law was saying that he can get me this at very reasonable rate from work
100$ for a 3 by 100ft roll would this be able to be buaght in the proper specs
i need??
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217279#217279
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| Subject: | Re: On a Positive Note- Teens Build a Zodiac |
Dear Juan,
Can you please send to me via e-mail or post a copy of the 'authorization' and
the 'special airworthiness certificate' allowing two on board for the one touch
and go.
Did the first flight with the canopy open count? Did you require a second authorization
for next take-off?
I am positive that the Great Lakes Region will consider allowing me the same privileges
they granted you if they see it in writing or can contact the "FAA regional
head" you were dealing with. Kinda like once one FSDO OKs a field install,
the rest will normally follow suit. Was it Mr. Sturgell? Mr. Murphy? Both?
That is so cool!
Even if it was only POINT 1 hours, I could always say I flew part of the Phase
1. This is GREAT NEWS!
Thanking you in advance,
Sabrina
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217280#217280
Message 39
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also i read this
Prospective purchasers of Basic Ultra-light Aeroplane kits should be aware that
kit manufacturers and part suppliers are bound by no legal requirements under
the Aeronautics Act. It is strongly recommended that owners and prospective owners
of Basic Ultra-light Aeroplanes avail themselves of the information and
services provided by the recreational aviation industry, schools and the ultra-light
aviation community.
its statement like this that almost make you just want to come up with a rudder
of equal size better strenght myself anyone have a total weight for the rudder
i want way some stuff up see what me can see
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=217284#217284
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