---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/08/08: 74 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:26 AM - List of Contributors 2008 (Matt Dralle) 2. 03:03 AM - 601 Header Tank (Peter W Johnson) 3. 04:47 AM - Non building related Question - Hand guns (4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net (Rich Simmons)) 4. 05:02 AM - Re: Fuel sending units (ashontz) 5. 05:04 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Jay Maynard) 6. 05:12 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Paul Mulwitz) 7. 05:18 AM - Re: Fuel sending units (ashontz) 8. 06:00 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet)) 9. 06:12 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (jaybannist@cs.com) 10. 06:13 AM - Chat Room Reminder (George Race) 11. 06:25 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (ashontz) 12. 06:34 AM - Re: MA3-SPA Throttle bellcrank (Gig Giacona) 13. 07:04 AM - Re: First Flight - Canopy for sale (Ray Griffith) 14. 07:12 AM - Fw: Wade's Grandaughter (wade jones) 15. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (William Dominguez) 16. 07:26 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Bryan Martin) 17. 07:31 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Juan Vega) 18. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: First Flight - Canopy for sale (Juan Vega) 19. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (jaybannist@cs.com) 20. 07:56 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (William Dominguez) 21. 08:37 AM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (waaaaay OT) (Dave Covert) 22. 08:40 AM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (William Dominguez) 23. 08:41 AM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 24. 08:58 AM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Cory Emberson) 25. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Rick Lindstrom) 26. 09:15 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Walter Yankauskas) 27. 09:30 AM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Elden Jacobson) 28. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (William Dominguez) 29. 10:09 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (ashontz) 30. 10:13 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (ashontz) 31. 10:17 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (ashontz) 32. 10:23 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (ashontz) 33. 11:00 AM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Rick Lindstrom) 34. 11:07 AM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Rick Lindstrom) 35. 11:40 AM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (aprazer) 36. 12:34 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (William Dominguez) 37. 12:36 PM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns () 38. 12:55 PM - You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) (MacDonald Doug) 39. 01:16 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Elden Jacobson) 40. 01:30 PM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 41. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Bob Collins) 42. 01:57 PM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Southern Reflections) 43. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Southern Reflections) 44. 02:15 PM - Re: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) (Southern Reflections) 45. 02:16 PM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Paul Mulwitz) 46. 02:17 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Randy) 47. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Rick Lindstrom) 48. 02:32 PM - Do you value this list? (Craig Payne) 49. 02:52 PM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (steve) 50. 02:55 PM - Re: Do you value this list? (raymondj) 51. 03:03 PM - Re: Do you value this list? (David Brooks) 52. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: MA3-SPA Throttle bellcrank (Bill Naumuk) 53. 03:16 PM - Re: Do you value this list? (Art Gibeaut) 54. 03:21 PM - Re: Do you value this list? (Larry Winger) 55. 03:24 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Bryan Martin) 56. 03:32 PM - Re: Do you value this list? (Rick Lindstrom) 57. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Elden Jacobson) 58. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Elden Jacobson) 59. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Elden Jacobson) 60. 03:52 PM - Re: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) (Juan Vega) 61. 04:04 PM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Roger & Lina Hill) 62. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Roger & Lina Hill) 63. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Roger & Lina Hill) 64. 04:20 PM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Roger & Lina Hill) 65. 04:54 PM - Re: Do you value this list? (Tommy Walker) 66. 05:00 PM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Juan Vega) 67. 05:08 PM - Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (Craig Payne) 68. 05:29 PM - Re: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) (Southern Reflections) 69. 07:16 PM - Re: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) (steve) 70. 07:21 PM - New Main Landing Gear rubber pads (Don Mountain) 71. 07:26 PM - Re: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) (Dirk Zahtilla) 72. 07:36 PM - Re: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) (Dave Austin) 73. 08:07 PM - Re: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) (Roger & Lina Hill) 74. 08:08 PM - Re: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) (Roger & Lina Hill) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:33 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: List of Contributors 2008 Dear Listers, This year's Fund Raiser has drawn to a close and I want to thank everyone that so generously made a contribution this year in support of the Matronics Email List and Forum operation. Your generosity keeps the wheels on this cart and I truly appreciate the many kind words of encouragement and financial reimbursement. If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser, please feel free to do so. The great List Fund Raiser gifts will be available on the Contribution site for a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution today and still get your great gift! Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by personal check to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Jon Croke of HomebuiltHELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of discounted merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated! And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2008 List of Contributors current as of 12/7/08! Have a look at this list of names as *these* are the people that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser! THANK YOU! http://www.matronics.com/loc/2008.html I will be shipping out all of the gifts around the end of December. In most cases, gifts will be shipped via US Postal Service. Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:46 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: Zenith-List: 601 Header Tank Hi Guys, My 601XL is having an O-200 on the front and since it came off a C150 it does not have a mechanical fuel pump (different cam end). Has anybody got any details of the HDS fuel system (which I understand includes a header tank)? I plan on using two fuel pumps in series (ala Corvair) and pump the wing tanks into the header tank. A diagram/photo would be good. Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://zodiac.cpc-world.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:43 AM PST US From: 4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net (Rich Simmons) Subject: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your person at airports and such. I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was wondering if anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately? DO NOT ACHIEVE -- Thanks, Rich Simmons ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:36 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel sending units From: "ashontz" I actually did a bit of a redesign on my tanks for ease of contruction as well as ease of maintenance as well as reduce the number of possible "problem" areas in the tank. I bought a sender and gauge from Pep Boys for $40, a filler neck from a boat dealer for $12 and will mount the sender arm on the filler neck so the sender will be accessible simply by removing the filler neck from the tank. Being that the sender requires a gasket anyway, I figured I'd rather have that gasket on top of the tank rather than the side, plus it makes getting at the sender that much easier. The filler tank will be bolted to the tank on top obviously and the whole assembly will be hidden under a water tight deckplate I also bought from a boat dealer for $9. I hope to have pictures soon on my website if I can manage to download them from my camera. I think the whole design is pretty sweet really. The vent tube and ground wire will also be accessible under the deckplate. Moving the whole assembly to the top reduced the number of difficult welds (now just the seams and two fittings, outlet and drain) and moves an assembly that requires a gasket anyway to the top from the side. If I have to have a gasket, I'd rather it on top. -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218171#218171 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:04:02 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 12:46:22PM +0000, Rich Simmons wrote: > Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your > person at airports and such. I know handgun rules vary from state to state > however i was wondering if anybody had any knowledge on this thought while > flying privately? The laws of the states I've learned (Texas, Utah, and Minnesota) only prohibit carrying handguns with a permit in the secured area of an airport. That, of course, leaves the question of what a "secured area" is, exactly. I expect that it means "the areas you have to go through security to get to", but it's never been tested that I know of. The ramp at KFRM almost certainly does not qualify. Some airports post "no handguns allowed" signs at the pilot lounge and such. Many do not follow the legal requirements for such signs, however. Whether to carry into such places is your decision. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. If it matters, find a lawyer who's knowledgeable about gun laws in your jurisdiction. DO NOT ARCHIVE -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:00 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns Hi Rich, I've been considering similar questions. Let me tell you what little I know. First, I am not aware of any difference between carrying a pistol at airports and other facilities. There is a legal difference between carrying in one state vs. another. Also, there is a huge difference between concealed carry and open carry. In general, I believe open carry is protected by the U.S. Constitution. It might get you some unwanted attention from average citizens, but I doubt there would be any problem with law enforcement folks on this point. Open carry is getting much more noticeable around here. In many cases it is law enforcement people who are carrying in this fashion when they cross state lines. Concealed carry generally (universally?) requires a state license. These are easy to get in many states. Also, when you have a licence in your home state it is honored in other states that have reciprocal agreements. In my case, I have a Washington concealed pistol permit and it is honored in a number of other states. One thing to consider - if you are not a felon, concealed carry is a minor misdemeanor (nearly?) everywhere. If you behave properly it is very unlikely you will be charged with a crime even if you are "Caught" violating this rule. I understand it is most likely that a law enforcement officer will either ignore a violation of this rule (for someone who could legally carry in another state). If you are charged with this crime it usually results in a ticket similar to a speeding ticket. Of course this discussion does not address the airline travel TSA fiefdom. There are federal rules about carrying or even having guns in luggage on airliners. I hope this helps. Paul Camas, WA do not archive At 04:46 AM 12/8/2008, you wrote: >Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on >your person at airports and such. >I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was >wondering if anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately? > >DO NOT ACHIEVE ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel sending units From: "ashontz" Here's some pix. I just updated my kitlog link. http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=ashontz&project=277&category=0&log=65842&row=4 ashontz wrote: > I actually did a bit of a redesign on my tanks for ease of contruction as well as ease of maintenance as well as reduce the number of possible "problem" areas in the tank. I bought a sender and gauge from Pep Boys for $40, a filler neck from a boat dealer for $12 and will mount the sender arm on the filler neck so the sender will be accessible simply by removing the filler neck from the tank. Being that the sender requires a gasket anyway, I figured I'd rather have that gasket on top of the tank rather than the side, plus it makes getting at the sender that much easier. The filler tank will be bolted to the tank on top obviously and the whole assembly will be hidden under a water tight deckplate I also bought from a boat dealer for $9. I hope to have pictures soon on my website if I can manage to download them from my camera. I think the whole design is pretty sweet really. The vent tube and ground wire will also be accessible under the deckplate. Moving the whole assembly to the top reduced the number of difficult welds (now just the seams and two fittings, outlet and drain) and moves an assembly that requires a gasket anyway to the top from the side. If I have to have a gasket, I'd rather it on top. -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218177#218177 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:46 AM PST US From: "Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet)" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns Why in the world should anybody carry a handgun ? Try grenades ! FAA aproved. Leaves no broken rivets. Only advantages ! Win win situation ! In Europe it is (thank God) forbidden to carry arms... Live safe and fly safe ! Greetings from Holland. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rich Simmons" <4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:46 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your > person at airports and such. > I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was wondering if > anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately? > > DO NOT ACHIEVE > > -- > Thanks, > Rich Simmons > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns From: jaybannist@cs.com Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself?? That is what the gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off)? (:>) Jay in Dallas Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet) Sent: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 7:59 am Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns ? Why in the world should anybody carry a handgun ? Try grenades ! FAA aproved. Leaves no broken rivets. Only advantages ! Win win situation ! In Europe it is (thank God) forbidden to carry arms... Live safe and fly safe ! Greetings from Holland.? ? --------------------------------------------------? From: "Rich Simmons" <4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net>? Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:46 PM? Subject: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns? ? >? > Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your > person at airports and such.? > I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was wondering if > anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately?? >? > DO NOT ACHIEVE? >? > --? > Thanks,? > Rich Simmons? >? >? >? >? > ? ? ? ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:48 AM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Chat Room Reminder Please join us for the Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM Eastern Time. http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ George Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns From: "ashontz" Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more easily shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope here in the US. jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what the gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > > > > > > -- -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218189#218189 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:34:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: MA3-SPA Throttle bellcrank From: "Gig Giacona" naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote: > Gig- > Unless you have a header tank in the way. > Bill > --- Good point. I've not looked behind the panel of a 601 with a header but while working with the a throttle cable this weekend it seems that you could just use a longer cable to get around a water buffalo behind the panel. Of course I'm not installing dual throttle controls either. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218192#218192 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:44 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - Canopy for sale From: "Ray Griffith" Juan, I am in NM but it would be fun if I was in FL. My Plane will be at Seabring in January though. At least that is the plan this week. Gus should be taking it to the zenith booth? Ray Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218197#218197 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:38 AM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: Wade's Grandaughter Wade Jones South Texas 601XL Franklin 0-235 ----- Original Message ----- From: wade jones Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:10 AM Subject: Wade's Grandaughter Hello to my good friends ,tonight my granddaughter Jessica DeYoung is going to be on the Wheel of Fortune . It comes on at 6:30pm in my area check your time zones .Don't know how their scheduling works but it may be as scheduled in Ca. Not much news just a proud grandfather . Wade Jones South Texas 601XL Franklin 0-235 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:53 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family members. Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom do not archive --- On Mon, 12/8/08, ashontz wrote: From: ashontz Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more easily shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope here in the US. jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what the gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) > > Jay in Dallas > Do not archive > > > > > > -- -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218189#218189 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:51 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns Federal law prohibits carrying of weapons in the security areas of airports (the areas you have to pass through metal detectors TSA screeners to get access to). All other areas of public airports are generally subject to the same state and local laws that are in effect outside the airport. > > Simmons) > > Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on > your person at airports and such. > I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was > wondering if anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying > privately? > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:34 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns I have no rules that come to mind, I just do it, especialy in the plane, I have a folding mini 14, flying over the everglades, it couldcome in handy. As for the guy that says thank god there are no guns in Holland, keep dreamin. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: jaybannist@cs.com >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 9:12 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > > Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself?? That is what the gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off)? (:>) > >Jay in Dallas >Do not archive > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet) >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 7:59 am >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > >? > >Why in the world should anybody carry a handgun ? Try grenades ! FAA >aproved. Leaves no broken rivets. Only advantages ! Win win situation ! In >Europe it is (thank God) forbidden to carry arms... Live safe and fly safe ! >Greetings from Holland.? >? > >--------------------------------------------------? > >From: "Rich Simmons" <4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net>? > >Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:46 PM? > >To: "Zenith-List Digest Server" ? > >Subject: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns? >? > > >>? > >> Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your >> person at airports and such.? > >> I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was wondering if >> anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately?? > >>? > >> DO NOT ACHIEVE? > >>? > >> --? > >> Thanks,? > >> Rich Simmons? > >>? > >>? > >>? > >>? > >> ? > > >? > >? > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:30 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - Canopy for sale anyone else want to flyin at Sebring? -----Original Message----- >From: Ray Griffith >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 10:04 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: First Flight - Canopy for sale > > >Juan, > >I am in NM but it would be fun if I was in FL. My Plane will be at Seabring in January though. At least that is the plan this week. Gus should be taking it to the zenith booth? > >Ray > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218197#218197 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns From: jaybannist@cs.com Bill, I am old and feeble.? I can't afford hanger rental.? You are young and able.? Since you seem to be big on socialism, I'm quite certain you would be honored to pay my hanger rental. Contact me off list and I'll tell you where to send the checks. Jay Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: William Dominguez Sent: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 9:22 am Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family members. Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom do not archive --- On Mon, 12/8/08, ashontz wrote: From: ashontz Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more easily shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope here in the US. jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what the gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) > > Jay in Dallas > Do ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:56:22 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns "As for the guy that says thank god there are no guns in Holland, keep dreaming" That guy must be really lost, by the way, who said that? William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Juan Vega wrote: From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns I have no rules that come to mind, I just do it, especialy in the plane, I have a folding mini 14, flying over the everglades, it couldcome in handy. As for the guy that says thank god there are no guns in Holland, keep dreamin. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: jaybannist@cs.com >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 9:12 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > > Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself?? That is what the gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off)? (:>) > >Jay in Dallas >Do not archive > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet) >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Sent: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 7:59 am >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > ? >? > >Why in the world should anybody carry a handgun ? Try grenades ! FAA >aproved. Leaves no broken rivets. Only advantages ! Win win situation ! In >Europe it is (thank God) forbidden to carry arms... Live safe and fly safe ! >Greetings from Holland.? >? > >--------------------------------------------------? > >From: "Rich Simmons" <4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net>? > >Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:46 PM? > >To: "Zenith-List Digest Server" ? > >Subject: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns? >? > Simmons)? > >>? > >> Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your >> person at airports and such.? > >> I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was wondering if >> anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately?? > >>? > >> DO NOT ACHIEVE? > >>? > >> --? > >> Thanks,? > >> Rich Simmons? > >>? > >>? > >>? > >>? > >> ? > > >? > >? > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:27 AM PST US From: "Dave Covert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns (waaaaay OT) Jay, I spent 10 years paying my own way thru college without parental or government help. I then spent 5 years in a drudge job earning my stripes so that I can get paid well now. If you know anyone who spent their money as a youth on beer/stereos/spinner rims and now needs what I have worked for, I would be happy to 'spread the wealth'. That's what high socialist taxes are for right? Making sure that the society's income standard deviation is as small as possible? Dave in TEXAS where the state legislature only meets every 2 years for about 6 months and we do just fine thank you... do not archive On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 9:45 AM, wrote: > > Bill, > > I am old and feeble. I can't afford hanger rental. You are young and > able. Since you seem to be big on socialism, I'm quite certain you would be > honored to pay my hanger rental. Contact me off list and I'll tell you where > to send the checks. > > Jay > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Dominguez > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Sent: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 9:22 am > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" countries > (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is that is > so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. > > So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and > Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other > inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be > sooo afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the > movie 1984 or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been > unable to realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals > and family members. > > Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. > > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Miami Florida > http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > > do not archive > --- On *Mon, 12/8/08, ashontz * wrote: > > From: ashontz > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:24 AM > > > > > > Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more easily > > shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. > > There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the > > Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope here > > in the US. > > > jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > > > Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what the > > gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) > > > > > > Jay in Dallas > > > Do > > * > > * > > > ------------------------------ > Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com > > * > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:46 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns You missed my point Jay. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom do not archive --- On Mon, 12/8/08, jaybannist@cs.com wrote: From: jaybannist@cs.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Bill, I am old and feeble.- I can't afford hanger rental.- You are young and able.- Since you seem to be big on socialism, I'm quite certain you would be honored to pay my hanger rental. Contact me off list and I'll tell you where to send the checks. Jay Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: William Dominguez Sent: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 9:22 am Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" countries (C anada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is that is s o bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and Jerse y Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other inconveniences , I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 or s omething of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to real ized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family m embers. Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom do not archive --- On Mon, 12/8/08, ashontz wrote: From: ashontz Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more easi ly shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope here in the US. jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what the gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) > > Jay in Dallas > Do Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:55 AM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns I would just like to ask for money to live on in the style I would like to so sent me my weekly amount. Looking at about $40,00.00 for now. Jerry of GA Do not archive In a message dated 12/8/2008 10:47:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jaybannist@cs.com writes: Bill, I am old and feeble. I can't afford hanger rental. You are young and able. Since you seem to be big on socialism, I'm quite certain you would be honored to pay my hanger rental. Contact me off list and I'll tell you where to send the checks. Jay Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: William Dominguez Sent: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 9:22 am Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family members. Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida _http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom_ (http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom) do not archive --- On Mon, 12/8/08, ashontz <_ashontz@nbme.org_ (mailto:ashontz@nbme.org) > wrote: From: ashontz <_ashontz@nbme.org_ (mailto:ashontz@nbme.org) > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns <_ashontz@nbme.org_ (mailto:ashontz@nbme.org) > Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more easily shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope here in the US. jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what the gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) > > Jay in Dallas > Do ____________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at _http://www.cs.com_ (http://www.cs.com/) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List) **************Stay in touch with ALL of your friends: update your AIM, Bebo, Facebook, and MySpace pages with just one click. The NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:21 AM PST US From: Cory Emberson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Not to mention the fact that criminals prefer unarmed prey. best, Cory Do not archive ashontz wrote: > > Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more easily shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope here in the US. > > > jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: > >> Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what the gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) >> >> Jay in Dallas >> Do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> > > > -------- > Andy Shontz > > do not archive > > CH601XL - Corvair > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218189#218189 > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:53 AM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Hi, Bill! The following is a long post, and has nothing to so with Zenith aircraft, only the ability to continue to fly them in the US. Rather than respond with "what's wrong with socialism," I'd prefer to answer with "what's right with America." I'm old enough to remember having good public schools, where kids with disruptive social problems were not allowed in the classroom, we recited the pledge every morning, and had comprehensive classes on American history that showcased the ideals that created this unique country. If I recall correctly, America was founded on religious freedom, personal responsibility, and unlimited opportunity. The government was by the people, not a king or dictator. The citizens themselves determined their futures through their representitives, who would leave their own farms or businesses for a few years, serve their constituents, and then return to their homes. Career politicians hadn't been invented yet. America has long been a burr under the saddle of many communist and socialist countries, attracting immigrants from all over the world who trade everything for a single shot at what our citizens all too often take for granted. America could never be conquered by foreign military force, so there's been a constant undermining of traditional American values and our unique culture over the past 50 years instead. And every time we've embarked on some new shiny leftist government program that promises to be the solution to our social ills, we've dug ourselves deeper and deeper into debt and social unrest. Be it LBJ's Great Society, Affirmative Action, the American Disabilities Act, Women's Liberation, Gay Liberation, the Community Reinvestment Act, the EPA, the NEA, or even the TSA, we've only succeeded in removing the commonality we once felt as proud Americans and divided Americans into balkanized victim/grievance groups who now view each other with distrust. And our government, who we've traditionally had faith in to be fair and even handed, now views its citizens as mere rabble, whose only value is as a source of income and votes every now and then. Every time I stand in an airport security line, I wonder about the promise of "innocent until proven guilty." Now it's the other way around. It's sad. The whole point of the civil rights movement in the mid 60s was to make race a non-issue. Instead, we've made race, gender, ethnic or religious backgrounds, sexual orientation, and handicaps bargaining chips for societal handouts. Toss in the hugely divisive Vietnam war, media glorification of thuggery, several generations of kids who've been dumbed down and robbed of their proud heritage in public schools, and we have a country at odds with itself, ripe for the pickin'. But there's still a few of us left who will not go along quietly. We know that the second amendment is the one that guarantees all the others, we know that the responsibility of personal safety and defense cannot be subcontracted out, and we know that this country belongs to its citizens. It is not a plaything for those who fancy themselves smarter or better that the people they purport to "serve." Americans are richly blessed to have inherited a legacy of freedom that their forefathers have bled and died for. And it's up to us to protect it, and hand it down to our children and their children. I'll take an imperfect free America over perfect socialism any day. The sovereignty of the individual Amercian is priceless. Aim small, miss small. Rick Lindstrom N42KP -----Original Message----- From: William Dominguez Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family members. Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: William Dominguez >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > >I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. > >So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family members. > >Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. > >William Dominguez >Zodiac 601XL Plans >Miami Florida >http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > >do not archive >--- On Mon, 12/8/08, ashontz wrote: >From: ashontz >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:24 AM > > > >Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more easily >shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. >There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the >Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope here >in the US. > > >jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: >> Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what the >gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) >> >> Jay in Dallas >> Do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> -- > > >-------- >Andy Shontz > >do not archive > >CH601XL - Corvair >www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218189#218189 > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:24 AM PST US From: Walter Yankauskas Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns Up until a few years ago, you were required to have a firearm as part of your emergency kit in Alaska. Most people carried pistols, which leads to the old joke: "Why do you file the front sight off of a 357 Magnum pistol?" The answer is "So that it doesn't hurt so much when the bear shoves it up your a**". Walter from Anchorage - working on 701 Right Wing Do not archive Rich Simmons wrote: > > Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your person at airports and such. > I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was wondering if anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately? > > DO NOT ACHIEVE > > -- > Thanks, > Rich Simmons > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:30:01 AM PST US From: Elden Jacobson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Someone (or a number of someones) has been watching too many Dirty Harry mo vies. There are other forums much better suited to these witless discussion s; let's return to building airplanes. - Elden J. xl/3300 --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Cory Emberson wrote: From: Cory Emberson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Not to mention the fact that criminals prefer unarmed prey. best, Cory Do not archive ashontz wrote: Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more easi ly shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. There 's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the Constituti on, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope here in the US .. jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what the g ov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) Jay in Dallas Do not archive -- -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218189#218189 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:53 AM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Hi Rick, Thanks for a very thoughtful post Rick. However, let me clarify that my ori ginal point was about irrational fears and not about European socialism vs. American capitalism. After all, America is not purely capitalistic and Eur ope is not purely socialistic. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom- - --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Hi, Bill! The following is a long post, and has nothing to so with Zenith aircraft, only the ability to continue to fly them in the US. Rather than respond with "what's wrong with socialism," I'd prefer to answer with "what's right with America." I'm old enough to remember having good public schools, where kids with disruptive s ocial problems were not allowed in the classroom, we recited the pledge every mor ning, and had comprehensive classes on American history that showcased the ideals that created this unique country. If I recall correctly, America was founded on religious freedom, personal responsibility, and unlimited opportunity. The government was by the people , not a king or dictator. The citizens themselves determined their futures throug h their representitives, who would leave their own farms or businesses for a few years, serve their constituents, and then return to their homes. Career politicians hadn't been invented yet. America has long been a burr under the saddle of many communist and sociali st countries, attracting immigrants from all over the world who trade everythi ng for a single shot at what our citizens all too often take for granted. Amer ica could never be conquered by foreign military force, so there's been a constant undermining of traditional American values and our unique culture over the past 50 years instead. And every time we've embarked on some new shiny leftist government program that promises to be the solution to our social ills, we've dug ourselves deeper and deeper into debt and social unrest. Be it LBJ's Great Society, Affirmative Action, the American Disabilities Act, Women's Liberation, Gay Liberation, the Community Reinvestment Act, the EPA, the NEA, or even the T SA, we've only succeeded in removing the commonality we once felt as proud Americans and divided Americans into balkanized victim/grievance groups who now view each other with distrust. And our government, who we've traditionally had faith in to be fair and even handed, now views its citizens as mere rab ble, whose only value is as a source of income and votes every now and then. Eve ry time I stand in an airport security line, I wonder about the promise of "innocent until proven guilty." Now it's the other way around. It's sad. The whole point of the civil rights movement in the mid 60s was to make race a non-issue. Instead, we've made race, gender, ethnic or religious backgrounds, sexual orientation, and handicaps bargaining chips f or societal handouts. Toss in the hugely divisive Vietnam war, media glorifica tion of thuggery, several generations of kids who've been dumbed down and robbed of their proud heritage in public schools, and we have a country at odds wi th itself, ripe for the pickin'. But there's still a few of us left who will not go along quietly. We know that the second amendment is the one that guarantees all the others, we kno w that the responsibility of personal safety and defense cannot be subcontrac ted out, and we know that this country belongs to its citizens. It is not a plaything for those who fancy themselves smarter or better that the people they purport to "serve." Americans are richly blessed to have inherited a legacy of freedom that the ir forefathers have bled and died for. And it's up to us to protect it, and hand it down to our children and their children. I'll take an imperfect free America over perfect socialism any day. The sovereignty of the individual Amercian is priceless. Aim small, miss small. Rick Lindstrom N42KP -----Original Message----- From: William Dominguez Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be s ooo afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and fami ly members. Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans Miami Florida http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: William Dominguez >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > >I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. > >So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be s ooo afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and fami ly members. > >Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. > >William Dominguez >Zodiac 601XL Plans >Miami Florida >http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > >do not archive >--- On Mon, 12/8/08, ashontz wrote: >From: ashontz >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:24 AM > > > >Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more easily >shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. >There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the >Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope here >in the US. > > >jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: >> Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what the >gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) >> >> Jay in Dallas >> Do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> -- > > >-------- >Andy Shontz > >do not archive > >CH601XL - Corvair >www.mykitlog.com/ashontz > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218189#218189 > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:28 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns From: "ashontz" I'll take a free check too please. LOL As long as I don't have to sacrifice my civil liberties. Wait a second, I guess alleged security and sacrifice of liberties go hand in hand. Nevermind. If I can get that redistributed wealth though, or at least my own wealth distributed back to me that would be great Last I checked, between what's taken out of my pay plus all the taxes and fees I have to pay after the fact that's about half my income. I'd like that back thanks. [quote="Jeyoung65(at)aol.com"]I would just like to ask for money to live on in the style I would like to so sent me my weekly amount. Looking at about $40,00.00 for now. Jerry of GA Do not archive In a message dated 12/8/2008 10:47:22 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jaybannist@cs.com writes: > > > Bill, > > I am old and feeble. I can't afford hanger rental. You are young and able. Since you seem to be big on socialism, I'm quite certain you would be honored to pay my hanger rental. Contact me off list and I'll tell you where to send the checks. > > Jay > Do not archive > > > > -- -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218243#218243 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:53 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns From: "ashontz" Rick, you wouldn't happen to be one of those tin-foil hat wearing types like me that believes that believes that maybe, just maybe, the UN and CFR along with Al Gore types can go sh!t in their flat hats and put it down over their ears, would you? Granted, Al Gore has a point, our carbon emissions are so bad, we're even managing to melt the polar caps on Mars. Believe me, that's bad. LOL tigerrick(at)mindspring.c wrote: > Hi, Bill! The following is a long post, and has nothing to so with Zenith aircraft, only the ability to continue to fly them in the US. > > Rather than respond with "what's wrong with socialism," I'd prefer to answer with "what's right with America." I'm old enough to remember having good public schools, where kids with disruptive social problems were not allowed in the classroom, we recited the pledge every morning, and had comprehensive classes on American history that showcased the ideals that created this unique country. > > If I recall correctly, America was founded on religious freedom, personal responsibility, and unlimited opportunity. The government was by the people, not a king or dictator. The citizens themselves determined their futures through their representitives, who would leave their own farms or businesses for a few years, serve their constituents, and then return to their homes. Career politicians hadn't been invented yet. > > America has long been a burr under the saddle of many communist and socialist countries, attracting immigrants from all over the world who trade everything for a single shot at what our citizens all too often take for granted. America could never be conquered by foreign military force, so there's been a constant undermining of traditional American values and our unique culture over the past 50 years instead. > > And every time we've embarked on some new shiny leftist government program that promises to be the solution to our social ills, we've dug ourselves deeper and deeper into debt and social unrest. Be it LBJ's Great Society, Affirmative Action, the American Disabilities Act, Women's Liberation, Gay Liberation, the Community Reinvestment Act, the EPA, the NEA, or even the TSA, we've only succeeded in removing the commonality we once felt as proud Americans and divided Americans into balkanized victim/grievance groups who now view each other with distrust. And our government, who we've traditionally had faith in to be fair and even handed, now views its citizens as mere rabble, whose only value is as a source of income and votes every now and then. Every time I stand in an airport security line, I wonder about the promise of "innocent until proven guilty." Now it's the other way around. > > It's sad. The whole point of the civil rights movement in the mid 60s was to make race a non-issue. Instead, we've made race, gender, ethnic or religious backgrounds, sexual orientation, and handicaps bargaining chips for societal handouts. Toss in the hugely divisive Vietnam war, media glorification of thuggery, several generations of kids who've been dumbed down and robbed of their proud heritage in public schools, and we have a country at odds with itself, ripe for the pickin'. > > But there's still a few of us left who will not go along quietly. We know that the second amendment is the one that guarantees all the others, we know that the responsibility of personal safety and defense cannot be subcontracted out, and we know that this country belongs to its citizens. It is not a plaything for those who fancy themselves smarter or better that the people they purport to "serve." > > Americans are richly blessed to have inherited a legacy of freedom that their forefathers have bled and died for. And it's up to us to protect it, and hand it down to our children and their children. > > I'll take an imperfect free America over perfect socialism any day. The sovereignty of the individual Amercian is priceless. > > Aim small, miss small. > > Rick Lindstrom > N42KP > > -- -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218244#218244 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns From: "ashontz" Witless? Politics touches every facet of your life, particularly communism. That being the case, a politic discussion here has total merit. If we lived in a truly free country than yes, ragging on communist infiltration in our country wouldn't make sense. eldenej(at)yahoo.com wrote: > Someone (or a number of someones) has been watching too many Dirty Harry movies. There are other forums much better suited to these witless discussions; let's return to building airplanes. > ? > Elden J. > xl/3300 > > > --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Cory Emberson wrote: > > From: Cory Emberson > Subject: Re: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 12:56 AM > > > Not to mention the fact that criminals prefer unarmed prey. > > best, > Cory > > Do not archive > > ashontz wrote: > > > Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more easily shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope here in the US -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218246#218246 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns From: "ashontz" I forgot they don't do the pledge anymore. You know what, they site the fact that it has the word God in it, but I bet you it has as much to do with the fact that it also has the word Republic in it. How many dumb-assed Americans do you know that think we actually live in a democracy, probably a lot. We don't, we live in a constitutionally limited republic, and for good reason. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for dinner. "Democracy" doesn't appear in the Declaration of Independance or the Constitution either. tigerrick(at)mindspring.c wrote: > Hi, Bill! The following is a long post, and has nothing to so with Zenith aircraft, only the ability to continue to fly them in the US. > > Rather than respond with "what's wrong with socialism," I'd prefer to answer with "what's right with America." I'm old enough to remember having good public schools, where kids with disruptive social problems were not allowed in the classroom, we recited the pledge every morning, and had comprehensive classes on American history that showcased the ideals that created this unique country. > > If I recall correctly, America was founded on religious freedom, personal responsibility, and unlimited opportunity. The government was by the people, not a king or dictator. The citizens themselves determined their futures through their representitives, who would leave their own farms or businesses for a few years, serve their constituents, and then return to their homes. Career politicians hadn't been invented yet. > > America has long been a burr under the saddle of many communist and socialist countries, attracting immigrants from all over the world who trade everything for a single shot at what our citizens all too often take for granted. America could never be conquered by foreign military force, so there's been a constant undermining of traditional American values and our unique culture over the past 50 years instead. > > And every time we've embarked on some new shiny leftist government program that promises to be the solution to our social ills, we've dug ourselves deeper and deeper into debt and social unrest. Be it LBJ's Great Society, Affirmative Action, the American Disabilities Act, Women's Liberation, Gay Liberation, the Community Reinvestment Act, the EPA, the NEA, or even the TSA, we've only succeeded in removing the commonality we once felt as proud Americans and divided Americans into balkanized victim/grievance groups who now view each other with distrust. And our government, who we've traditionally had faith in to be fair and even handed, now views its citizens as mere rabble, whose only value is as a source of income and votes every now and then. Every time I stand in an airport security line, I wonder about the promise of "innocent until proven guilty." Now it's the other way around. > > It's sad. The whole point of the civil rights movement in the mid 60s was to make race a non-issue. Instead, we've made race, gender, ethnic or religious backgrounds, sexual orientation, and handicaps bargaining chips for societal handouts. Toss in the hugely divisive Vietnam war, media glorification of thuggery, several generations of kids who've been dumbed down and robbed of their proud heritage in public schools, and we have a country at odds with itself, ripe for the pickin'. > > But there's still a few of us left who will not go along quietly. We know that the second amendment is the one that guarantees all the others, we know that the responsibility of personal safety and defense cannot be subcontracted out, and we know that this country belongs to its citizens. It is not a plaything for those who fancy themselves smarter or better that the people they purport to "serve." > > Americans are richly blessed to have inherited a legacy of freedom that their forefathers have bled and died for. And it's up to us to protect it, and hand it down to our children and their children. > > I'll take an imperfect free America over perfect socialism any day. The sovereignty of the individual Amercian is priceless. > > Aim small, miss small. > > Rick Lindstrom > N42KP > > -- -------- Andy Shontz do not archive CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218248#218248 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:05 AM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns True, there is no pure capitalism. Pure socialism is another matter, requiring a totally dependent society on a dictator, monarch, or ruling cabal. It's been tried before with disastrous results. Whether fears about increasing socialism (requiring some loss of freedom) are "irrational" or not depends on your perspective, I guess. You asked why fear socialism, and the reason is that it requires that someone else surrender something (usually against their will). What is freedom, anyway? There can be no freedom without property rights, which includes the right to keep what you've earned through your own industry. >From what I've seen, every time we embrace some new socialistic program that allows us to feel better about ourselves for some brief period of time, the societal costs are just too high. Our government has no business taking by force from one to give to another outside of what's conceded by the Constitution (and thereby insuring their own political careers). I have no problem with charitable giving and public service programs, but this should be the province of churches and private community service organizations. When you rob from Peter to give to Paul, Paul will for sure vote for you again. Maybe Peter will too, if you convince him that it's for his own good. Socialism is based on the theory that someone else knows better than you do how to manage your affairs and your personal effects. It also assumes that societal power properly resides with those who rule, instead of sparingly granted from the citizenry. I can't think of two better reasons to reject socialism, and those who would enslave us further with it. Rick -----Original Message----- >From: William Dominguez >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 9:52 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > >Hi Rick, > >Thanks for a very thoughtful post Rick. However, let me clarify that my original point was about irrational fears and not about European socialism vs. American capitalism. After all, America is not purely capitalistic and Europe is not purely socialistic. > > >William Dominguez >Zodiac 601XL Plans >Miami Florida >http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > > >--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: >From: Rick Lindstrom >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 12:06 PM > > > >Hi, Bill! The following is a long post, and has nothing to so with Zenith >aircraft, only the ability to continue to fly them in the US. > >Rather than respond with "what's wrong with socialism," I'd >prefer to answer with "what's right with America." I'm old >enough to remember having good public schools, where kids with disruptive social >problems were not allowed in the classroom, we recited the pledge every morning, >and had comprehensive classes on American history that showcased the ideals that >created this unique country. > >If I recall correctly, America was founded on religious freedom, personal >responsibility, and unlimited opportunity. The government was by the people, not >a king or dictator. The citizens themselves determined their futures through >their representitives, who would leave their own farms or businesses for a few >years, serve their constituents, and then return to their homes. Career >politicians hadn't been invented yet. > >America has long been a burr under the saddle of many communist and socialist >countries, attracting immigrants from all over the world who trade everything >for a single shot at what our citizens all too often take for granted. America >could never be conquered by foreign military force, so there's been a >constant undermining of traditional American values and our unique culture over >the past 50 years instead. > >And every time we've embarked on some new shiny leftist government program >that promises to be the solution to our social ills, we've dug ourselves >deeper and deeper into debt and social unrest. Be it LBJ's Great Society, >Affirmative Action, the American Disabilities Act, Women's Liberation, Gay >Liberation, the Community Reinvestment Act, the EPA, the NEA, or even the TSA, >we've only succeeded in removing the commonality we once felt as proud >Americans and divided Americans into balkanized victim/grievance groups who now >view each other with distrust. And our government, who we've traditionally >had faith in to be fair and even handed, now views its citizens as mere rabble, >whose only value is as a source of income and votes every now and then. Every >time I stand in an airport security line, I wonder about the promise of >"innocent until proven guilty." Now it's the other way around. > >It's sad. The whole point of the civil rights movement in the mid 60s was >to make race a non-issue. Instead, we've made race, gender, ethnic or >religious backgrounds, sexual orientation, and handicaps bargaining chips for >societal handouts. Toss in the hugely divisive Vietnam war, media glorification >of thuggery, several generations of kids who've been dumbed down and robbed >of their proud heritage in public schools, and we have a country at odds with >itself, ripe for the pickin'. > >But there's still a few of us left who will not go along quietly. We know >that the second amendment is the one that guarantees all the others, we know >that the responsibility of personal safety and defense cannot be subcontracted >out, and we know that this country belongs to its citizens. It is not a >plaything for those who fancy themselves smarter or better that the people they >purport to "serve." > >Americans are richly blessed to have inherited a legacy of freedom that their >forefathers have bled and died for. And it's up to us to protect it, and >hand it down to our children and their children. > >I'll take an imperfect free America over perfect socialism any day. The >sovereignty of the individual Amercian is priceless. > >Aim small, miss small. > >Rick Lindstrom >N42KP > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Dominguez > Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" >countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is >that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. > > So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and >Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other >inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo >afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 >or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to >realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family >members. > > Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. > > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Miami Florida > http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > > do not archive > >-----Original Message----- >>From: William Dominguez >>Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >> >>I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" >countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is >that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. >> >>So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and >Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other >inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo >afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 >or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to >realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family >members. >> >>Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. >> >>William Dominguez >>Zodiac 601XL Plans >>Miami Florida >>http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom >> >>do not archive >>--- On Mon, 12/8/08, ashontz wrote: >>From: ashontz >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:24 AM >> >> >> >>Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more >easily >>shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. >>There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the >>Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope >here >>in the US. >> >> >>jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: >>> Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what >the >>gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) >>> >>> Jay in Dallas >>> Do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> >> >>-------- >>Andy Shontz >> >>do not archive >> >>CH601XL - Corvair >>www.mykitlog.com/ashontz >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218189#218189 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:11 AM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Well, I get my aluminum foil (tin is too hard to come by these days) from Costco, big industrial rolls for cheap! It works just as well as tin, assuming you keep the shiny side out when you make your hat. I assume you've read "State of Fear" by the late Michael Crichton? Absolutely nails the global warming fraud for what it is, he does! Loading up on incandescents, Rick -----Original Message----- >From: ashontz >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 10:12 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > >Rick, you wouldn't happen to be one of those tin-foil hat wearing types like me that believes that believes that maybe, just maybe, the UN and CFR along with Al Gore types can go sh!t in their flat hats and put it down over their ears, would you? > >Granted, Al Gore has a point, our carbon emissions are so bad, we're even managing to melt the polar caps on Mars. Believe me, that's bad. LOL > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:58 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns From: "aprazer" I'd like to weigh-in on this discussion! I remember the days of being a kid -- when we took guns to school for show and tell, trade, barter, etc... Now a kid will wind up in jail for mentioning that he/she has a gun. The same goes for drinking, a kid can be 18 and put his life on the line for his country, but if he is caught in the vicinity of an open alcoholic beverage -- he/she is punished. Oh how I miss the days of old! I think the pendulum has swung to far and it is time for it to come back. Now I'm stepping off my soap box and going back to flying I'll recommend that you carry a weapon as part of your survival gear -- especially in the wide open spaces or mountainous areas of the West. You may need it to supply nourishment! Mack 601XL N990MK -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218269#218269 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:31 PM PST US From: William Dominguez Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns But pure socialism is not what this country is moving toward in any shape of form. That will be an irrational fear because it won't happen here in America. When it comes to European style socialism, most of the fear are based in misconceptions about their system and exaggeration of their disadvantages. My point all along have not been that their system is better and we should move to that model. My point is that it does not justify the fear and contempt that some people express. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns True, there is no pure capitalism. Pure socialism is another matter, requiring a totally dependent society on a dictator, monarch, or ruling cabal. It's been tried before with disastrous results. Whether fears about increasing socialism (requiring some loss of freedom) are "irrational" or not depends on your perspective, I guess. You asked why fear socialism, and the reason is that it requires that someone else surrender something (usually against their will). What is freedom, anyway? There can be no freedom without property rights, which includes the right to keep what you've earned through your own industry. >From what I've seen, every time we embrace some new socialistic program that allows us to feel better about ourselves for some brief period of time, the societal costs are just too high. Our government has no business taking by force from one to give to another outside of what's conceded by the Constitution (and thereby insuring their own political careers). I have no problem with charitable giving and public service programs, but this should be the province of churches and private community service organizations. When you rob from Peter to give to Paul, Paul will for sure vote for you again. Maybe Peter will too, if you convince him that it's for his own good. Socialism is based on the theory that someone else knows better than you do how to manage your affairs and your personal effects. It also assumes that societal power properly resides with those who rule, instead of sparingly granted from the citizenry. I can't think of two better reasons to reject socialism, and those who would enslave us further with it. Rick -----Original Message----- >From: William Dominguez >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 9:52 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > >Hi Rick, > >Thanks for a very thoughtful post Rick. However, let me clarify that my original point was about irrational fears and not about European socialism vs. American capitalism. After all, America is not purely capitalistic and Europe is not purely socialistic. > > >William Dominguez >Zodiac 601XL Plans >Miami Florida >http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > > >--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: >From: Rick Lindstrom >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 12:06 PM > > > >Hi, Bill! The following is a long post, and has nothing to so with Zenith >aircraft, only the ability to continue to fly them in the US. > >Rather than respond with "what's wrong with socialism," I'd >prefer to answer with "what's right with America." I'm old >enough to remember having good public schools, where kids with disruptive social >problems were not allowed in the classroom, we recited the pledge every morning, >and had comprehensive classes on American history that showcased the ideals that >created this unique country. > >If I recall correctly, America was founded on religious freedom, personal >responsibility, and unlimited opportunity. The government was by the people, not >a king or dictator. The citizens themselves determined their futures through >their representitives, who would leave their own farms or businesses for a few >years, serve their constituents, and then return to their homes. Career >politicians hadn't been invented yet. > >America has long been a burr under the saddle of many communist and socialist >countries, attracting immigrants from all over the world who trade everything >for a single shot at what our citizens all too often take for granted. America >could never be conquered by foreign military force, so there's been a >constant undermining of traditional American values and our unique culture over >the past 50 years instead. > >And every time we've embarked on some new shiny leftist government program >that promises to be the solution to our social ills, we've dug ourselves >deeper and deeper into debt and social unrest. Be it LBJ's Great Society, >Affirmative Action, the American Disabilities Act, Women's Liberation, Gay >Liberation, the Community Reinvestment Act, the EPA, the NEA, or even the TSA, >we've only succeeded in removing the commonality we once felt as proud >Americans and divided Americans into balkanized victim/grievance groups who now >view each other with distrust. And our government, who we've traditionally >had faith in to be fair and even handed, now views its citizens as mere rabble, >whose only value is as a source of income and votes every now and then. Every >time I stand in an airport security line, I wonder about the promise of >"innocent until proven guilty." Now it's the other way around. > >It's sad. The whole point of the civil rights movement in the mid 60s was >to make race a non-issue. Instead, we've made race, gender, ethnic or >religious backgrounds, sexual orientation, and handicaps bargaining chips for >societal handouts. Toss in the hugely divisive Vietnam war, media glorification >of thuggery, several generations of kids who've been dumbed down and robbed >of their proud heritage in public schools, and we have a country at odds with >itself, ripe for the pickin'. > >But there's still a few of us left who will not go along quietly. We know >that the second amendment is the one that guarantees all the others, we know >that the responsibility of personal safety and defense cannot be subcontracted >out, and we know that this country belongs to its citizens. It is not a >plaything for those who fancy themselves smarter or better that the people they >purport to "serve." > >Americans are richly blessed to have inherited a legacy of freedom that their >forefathers have bled and died for. And it's up to us to protect it, and >hand it down to our children and their children. > >I'll take an imperfect free America over perfect socialism any day. The >sovereignty of the individual Amercian is priceless. > >Aim small, miss small. > >Rick Lindstrom >N42KP > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Dominguez > Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" >countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is >that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. > > So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and >Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other >inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo >afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 >or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to >realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family >members. > > Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. > > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Miami Florida > http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > > do not archive > >-----Original Message----- >>From: William Dominguez >>Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >> >>I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" >countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is >that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. >> >>So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and >Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other >inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo >afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 >or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to >realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family >members. >> >>Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. >> >>William Dominguez >>Zodiac 601XL Plans >>Miami Florida >>http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom >> >>do not archive >>--- On Mon, 12/8/08, ashontz wrote: >>From: ashontz >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:24 AM >> >> >> >>Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more >easily >>shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. >>There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the >>Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope >here >>in the US. >> >> >>jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: >>> Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what >the >>gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) >>> >>> Jay in Dallas >>> Do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> >> >>-------- >>Andy Shontz >> >>do not archive >> >>CH601XL - Corvair >>www.mykitlog.com/ashontz >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218189#218189 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:39 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns Forgive the ignorance of another barbaric American, but doesn't Switzerland, the only European country never to have been invaded, REQUIRE that all able bodied men own a rifle? However, fear not--- we Americans, having done it twice before, can still remember how to liberate Europe. But the question is, will we, or will Europe have to free itself next time, armed with a bag of high quality hash, a bottle of Pilsener, and a pack of Galoises? I remember as a kid telling my uncle I was taking French in school, and he told me he knew all the French an American needed to know: "Ou sont les Allemagnes?" OK. let the flames (flambeaux) begin! On second thought, let me add a little gasoline--The only people ever brought to this country against their will were the Africans. So how come there's more Europeans here than black people? And now, back to the original question. I wouldn't bother with a handgun among the survival supplies. You can get a very nifty collapsible .22 - .410 over-and-under survival rifle (Remington, I think) for a couple of hundred bucks, which weighs very little, and is good out to 100 yards. OK, prepare to flame,-----wait for it,-------FLAME! Paul Rodriguez 601XL/Corvair ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet) To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:59 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > Why in the world should anybody carry a handgun ? Try grenades ! FAA aproved. Leaves no broken rivets. Only advantages ! Win win situation ! In Europe it is (thank God) forbidden to carry arms... Live safe and fly safe ! Greetings from Holland. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rich Simmons" <4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:46 PM To: "Zenith-List Digest Server" > Subject: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns 4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net (Rich Simmons) > > Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your > person at airports and such. > I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was wondering if > anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately? > > DO NOT ACHIEVE > > -- > Thanks, > Rich Simmons > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:37 PM PST US From: MacDonald Doug Subject: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) Wow, I thought is would be safe to come back on this list after your re-design of the 601 settled down, I've only been monitoring things for the last week or so but I see that things have not changed in the least. I am back outa here guys, good luck with your projects if you can ever get off your soapboxes long enough to actually build anything. Do Not Archive Doug MacDonald CH-701 Scratch Builder NW Ontario, Canada --- On Mon, 12/8/08, paulrod36@msn.com wrote: > From: paulrod36@msn.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:36 PM > Forgive the ignorance of another barbaric American, but > doesn't Switzerland, the only European country never to > have been invaded, REQUIRE that all able bodied men own a > rifle? However, fear not--- we Americans, having done it > twice before, can still remember how to liberate Europe. > But the question is, will we, or will Europe have to free > itself next time, armed with a bag of high quality hash, a > bottle of Pilsener, and a pack of Galoises? I remember as a > kid telling my uncle I was taking French in school, and he > told me he knew all the French an American needed to know: > "Ou sont les Allemagnes?" > > OK. let the flames (flambeaux) begin! On second thought, > let me add a little gasoline--The only people ever brought > to this country against their will were the Africans. So how > come there's more Europeans here than black people? > > And now, back to the original question. I wouldn't > bother with a handgun among the survival supplies. You can > get a very nifty collapsible .22 - .410 over-and-under > survival rifle (Remington, I think) for a couple of hundred > bucks, which weighs very little, and is good out to 100 > yards. > > OK, prepare to flame,-----wait for it,-------FLAME! > > Paul Rodriguez > 601XL/Corvair ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:06 PM PST US From: Elden Jacobson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Rick, - I have read regularly your emails over the period I have been on the list ( two plus years), as well as the building articles in Kitplanes, nearly all of which have been interesting and, on occasion, constructively helpful. Yo u are someone who seems to know airplanes generally, the 601 more particula rly; it is that competence which I respect. But your most-recent posts illu strate my earlier suggestion that we take discussions such as this to some other forum. Someone has observed that while we are certainly entitled to o ur individual opinions, we are not entitled to our own facts. Your earlier description of-America's past contains much that seems simply in error wh ile leaving out whatever does not easily fit. And here, citing Crichton as an authority on atmospheric warming, you repeat the difficulty. - I look forward to further discussion regarding-issues about-which you s eem-well-informed; soicialism and economic history, however, are not amon g them. - Elden J. --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Well, I get my aluminum foil (tin is too hard to come by these days) from Costco, big industrial rolls for cheap! It works just as well as tin, assum ing you keep the shiny side out when you make your hat. I assume you've read "State of Fear" by the late Michael Crichton? Absolutely nails the global warming fraud for what it is, he does! Loading up on incandescents, Rick -----Original Message----- >From: ashontz >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 10:12 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > >Rick, you wouldn't happen to be one of those tin-foil hat wearing types like me that believes that believes that maybe, just maybe, the UN and CFR along with Al Gore types can go sh!t in their flat hats and put it down over thei r ears, would you? > >Granted, Al Gore has a point, our carbon emissions are so bad, we're even managing to melt the polar caps on Mars. Believe me, that's bad. LOL > =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:08 PM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns See you missed some classes history, there were people Scotland and Ireland sold in Georgia, believed they were POWs but not sure. Jerry of GA DO NOT ARCHIVE In a message dated 12/8/2008 3:37:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, paulrod36@msn.com writes: OK. let the flames (flambeaux) begin! On second thought, let me add a little gasoline--The only people ever brought to this country against their will were the Africans. So how come there's more Europeans here than black people? **************Stay in touch with ALL of your friends: update your AIM, Bebo, Facebook, and MySpace pages with just one click. The NEW AOL.com. ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns From: Bob Collins Ricks description of socialism is excellent. Please read and reread until it sinks in. Bob Collins 750 Plans Rick Lindstrom wrote: > > > Socialism is based on the theory that someone else knows better than you do how to manage your affairs and your personal effects. It also assumes that societal power properly resides with those who rule, instead of sparingly granted from the citizenry. > > I can't think of two better reasons to reject socialism, and those who would enslave us further with it. > > Rick > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:23 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns How long did it take to free the people that were being held on that train in that safe country of holland , a few years back??, and how many were killed in the process of getting freeded?? Guns dont kill people, People kill people . N101HD do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet)" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 8:59 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > > Why in the world should anybody carry a handgun ? Try grenades ! FAA > aproved. Leaves no broken rivets. Only advantages ! Win win situation ! In > Europe it is (thank God) forbidden to carry arms... Live safe and fly safe > ! Greetings from Holland. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Rich Simmons" <4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:46 PM > To: "Zenith-List Digest Server" > Subject: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > >> >> Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your >> person at airports and such. >> I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was wondering if >> anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately? >> >> DO NOT ACHIEVE >> >> -- >> Thanks, >> Rich Simmons >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:56 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Rick,you hit the nail on the head!!! Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Lindstrom" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > > Hi, Bill! The following is a long post, and has nothing to so with Zenith > aircraft, only the ability to continue to fly them in the US. > > Rather than respond with "what's wrong with socialism," I'd prefer to > answer with "what's right with America." I'm old enough to remember having > good public schools, where kids with disruptive social problems were not > allowed in the classroom, we recited the pledge every morning, and had > comprehensive classes on American history that showcased the ideals that > created this unique country. > > If I recall correctly, America was founded on religious freedom, personal > responsibility, and unlimited opportunity. The government was by the > people, not a king or dictator. The citizens themselves determined their > futures through their representitives, who would leave their own farms or > businesses for a few years, serve their constituents, and then return to > their homes. Career politicians hadn't been invented yet. > > America has long been a burr under the saddle of many communist and > socialist countries, attracting immigrants from all over the world who > trade everything for a single shot at what our citizens all too often take > for granted. America could never be conquered by foreign military force, > so there's been a constant undermining of traditional American values and > our unique culture over the past 50 years instead. > > And every time we've embarked on some new shiny leftist government program > that promises to be the solution to our social ills, we've dug ourselves > deeper and deeper into debt and social unrest. Be it LBJ's Great Society, > Affirmative Action, the American Disabilities Act, Women's Liberation, Gay > Liberation, the Community Reinvestment Act, the EPA, the NEA, or even the > TSA, we've only succeeded in removing the commonality we once felt as > proud Americans and divided Americans into balkanized victim/grievance > groups who now view each other with distrust. And our government, who > we've traditionally had faith in to be fair and even handed, now views its > citizens as mere rabble, whose only value is as a source of income and > votes every now and then. Every time I stand in an airport security line, > I wonder about the promise of "innocent until proven guilty." Now it's the > other way around. > > It's sad. The whole point of the civil rights movement in the mid 60s was > to make race a non-issue. Instead, we've made race, gender, ethnic or > religious backgrounds, sexual orientation, and handicaps bargaining chips > for societal handouts. Toss in the hugely divisive Vietnam war, media > glorification of thuggery, several generations of kids who've been dumbed > down and robbed of their proud heritage in public schools, and we have a > country at odds with itself, ripe for the pickin'. > > But there's still a few of us left who will not go along quietly. We know > that the second amendment is the one that guarantees all the others, we > know that the responsibility of personal safety and defense cannot be > subcontracted out, and we know that this country belongs to its citizens. > It is not a plaything for those who fancy themselves smarter or better > that the people they purport to "serve." > > Americans are richly blessed to have inherited a legacy of freedom that > their forefathers have bled and died for. And it's up to us to protect it, > and hand it down to our children and their children. > > I'll take an imperfect free America over perfect socialism any day. The > sovereignty of the individual Amercian is priceless. > > Aim small, miss small. > > Rick Lindstrom > N42KP > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Dominguez > Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" > countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it > is that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. > > So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and > Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other > inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be > sooo afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the > movie 1984 or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just > been unable to realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of > locals and family members. > > Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. > > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Miami Florida > http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > > do not archive > > -----Original Message----- >>From: William Dominguez >>Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >> >>I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" countries >>(Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is that >>is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. >> >>So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and >>Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other >>inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be >>sooo afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the >>movie 1984 or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just >>been unable to realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of >>locals and family members. >> >>Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. >> >>William Dominguez >>Zodiac 601XL Plans >>Miami Florida >>http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom >> >>do not archive >>--- On Mon, 12/8/08, ashontz wrote: >>From: ashontz >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:24 AM >> >> >> >>Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more >>easily >>shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. >>There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the >>Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope >>here >>in the US. >> >> >>jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: >>> Why in the world should anyone want to protect himself? That is what >>> the >>gov'ment is for? (Laughing my head off) (:>) >>> >>> Jay in Dallas >>> Do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >> >> >>-------- >>Andy Shontz >> >>do not archive >> >>CH601XL - Corvair >>www.mykitlog.com/ashontz >> >> >> >> >>Read this topic online here: >> >>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218189#218189 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:58 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) Have a nice trip Let me see?,you dont have guns up there and you have free medical. How's that's working out???? Joe N101HD do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "MacDonald Doug" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:55 PM Subject: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) > > Wow, I thought is would be safe to come back on this list after your > re-design of the 601 settled down, I've only been monitoring things for > the last week or so but I see that things have not changed in the least. > > I am back outa here guys, good luck with your projects if you can ever get > off your soapboxes long enough to actually build anything. > > Do Not Archive > > Doug MacDonald > CH-701 Scratch Builder > NW Ontario, Canada > > > --- On Mon, 12/8/08, paulrod36@msn.com wrote: > >> From: paulrod36@msn.com >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns >> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:36 PM >> Forgive the ignorance of another barbaric American, but >> doesn't Switzerland, the only European country never to >> have been invaded, REQUIRE that all able bodied men own a >> rifle? However, fear not--- we Americans, having done it >> twice before, can still remember how to liberate Europe. >> But the question is, will we, or will Europe have to free >> itself next time, armed with a bag of high quality hash, a >> bottle of Pilsener, and a pack of Galoises? I remember as a >> kid telling my uncle I was taking French in school, and he >> told me he knew all the French an American needed to know: >> "Ou sont les Allemagnes?" >> >> OK. let the flames (flambeaux) begin! On second thought, >> let me add a little gasoline--The only people ever brought >> to this country against their will were the Africans. So how >> come there's more Europeans here than black people? >> >> And now, back to the original question. I wouldn't >> bother with a handgun among the survival supplies. You can >> get a very nifty collapsible .22 - .410 over-and-under >> survival rifle (Remington, I think) for a couple of hundred >> bucks, which weighs very little, and is good out to 100 >> yards. >> >> OK, prepare to flame,-----wait for it,-------FLAME! >> >> Paul Rodriguez >> 601XL/Corvair > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:23 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns Hi Paul, I'm trying to keep out of the Socialism discussion, but I can't resist comment on your notion of survival gear. I'm afraid most folks couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a gun such as the one you described. If they need to hit a small animal to eat they would probably go hungry. A PLB would be a lot more useful for survival from an off airport landing. It would allow direct communication with search and rescue folks from just about anywhere. It even tells them exactly where you are calling from. I do like the idea of keeping a small pistol handy, but there are two differences in this idea from your survival gun. 1) I am a highly trained marksman with a pistol. 2) It is intended for use against malicious people rather than defenseless small animals. Paul Camas, WA do not archive At 12:36 PM 12/8/2008, you wrote: >And now, back to the original question. I wouldn't bother with a >handgun among the survival supplies. You can get a very nifty >collapsible .22 - .410 over-and-under survival rifle (Remington, I >think) for a couple of hundred bucks, which weighs very little, and >is good out to 100 yards. > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:49 PM PST US From: "Randy" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Elden, Obviously you've never read Crichton's book. It's loaded with factual data confirming what he's written, but liberals like yourself never let the facts get in the way of or own beliefs or agenda. Randy Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Elden Jacobson To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Rick, I have read regularly your emails over the period I have been on the list (two plus years), as well as the building articles in Kitplanes, nearly all of which have been interesting and, on occasion, constructively helpful. You are someone who seems to know airplanes generally, the 601 more particularly; it is that competence which I respect. But your most-recent posts illustrate my earlier suggestion that we take discussions such as this to some other forum. Someone has observed that while we are certainly entitled to our individual opinions, we are not entitled to our own facts. Your earlier description of America's past contains much that seems simply in error while leaving out whatever does not easily fit. And here, citing Crichton as an authority on atmospheric warming, you repeat the difficulty. I look forward to further discussion regarding issues about which you seem well-informed; soicialism and economic history, however, are not among them. Elden J. --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns To: zenith-list@matronics.com Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 3:06 AM Well, I get my aluminum foil (tin is too hard to come by these days) from Costco, big industrial rolls for cheap! It works just as well as tin, assuming you keep the shiny side out when you make your hat. I assume you've read "State of Fear" by the late Michael Crichton? Absolutely nails the global warming fraud for what it is, he does! Loading up on incandescents, Rick -----Original Message----- >From: ashontz >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 10:12 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > >Rick, you wouldn't happen to be one of those tin-foil hat wearing types like me that believes that believes that maybe, just maybe, the UN and CFR along with Al Gore types can go sh!t in their flat hats and put it down over their ears, would you? > >Granted, Al Gore has a point, our carbon emissions are so bad, we're even managing to melt the polar caps on Mars. Believe me, that's bad. LOL > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:46 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Elden: Thanks for the kind words regarding my KP contributions over the years, I'm pleased you found them worth reading. I didn't realize that you and I were having a personal discussion about guns, socialism, and the like. Bill D. posed a question and I gave my opinion. Which is all it is, heartfelt as it may be. I have never claimed to "own" facts, but my observations are based on my personal experience over the last half century. I never claimed Crichton to be an expert, either, but I do know that his devotion to scientific method exceeded someone like, say, Al Gore (who has masterfully picked and chosen his data points carefully to bolster his politically charged theories). I won't be offended in the slightest if you completely dismiss anything I write outside of aviation subjects. But I have been living and observing twice as long as I've been flying, so forgive me if the reality of my experiences don't neatly overlay with your own. Best, Rick -----Original Message----- >From: Elden Jacobson >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 4:15 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > >Rick, > >I have read regularly your emails over the period I have been on the list (two plus years), as well as the building articles in Kitplanes, nearly all of which have been interesting and, on occasion, constructively helpful. You are someone who seems to know airplanes generally, the 601 more particularly; it is that competence which I respect. But your most-recent posts illustrate my earlier suggestion that we take discussions such as this to some other forum. Someone has observed that while we are certainly entitled to our individual opinions, we are not entitled to our own facts. Your earlier description of America's past contains much that seems simply in error while leaving out whatever does not easily fit. And here, citing Crichton as an authority on atmospheric warming, you repeat the difficulty. > >I look forward to further discussion regarding issues about which you seem well-informed; soicialism and economic history, however, are not among them. > >Elden J. > >--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: > >From: Rick Lindstrom >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 3:06 AM > > > >Well, I get my aluminum foil (tin is too hard to come by these days) from >Costco, big industrial rolls for cheap! It works just as well as tin, assuming >you keep the shiny side out when you make your hat. > >I assume you've read "State of Fear" by the late Michael >Crichton? > >Absolutely nails the global warming fraud for what it is, he does! > >Loading up on incandescents, > >Rick > >-----Original Message----- >>From: ashontz >>Sent: Dec 8, 2008 10:12 AM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >> > >> >>Rick, you wouldn't happen to be one of those tin-foil hat wearing types >like me that believes that believes that maybe, just maybe, the UN and CFR along >with Al Gore types can go sh!t in their flat hats and put it down over their >ears, would you? >> >>Granted, Al Gore has a point, our carbon emissions are so bad, we're >even managing to melt the polar caps on Mars. Believe me, that's bad. LOL >> > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:02 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: Zenith-List: Do you value this list? Do you value this list? Did you recently make a contribution to Matt to support it? THEN WHY DAMAGE IT? Every post you make on controversial, non-aviation related topics hurts this list. You drive people away. You stir up emotions that get in the way of factual aviation-related discussions. You waste builders time. Your posts, no matter how clever, cutting or brilliant - WILL NOT CHANGE MINDS on topics that have been argued over forever. There are plenty of places to have political discussions. There is only one Zenith list. If you damage or destroy it then you will have no other place to go for help in building your Zenith aircraft. So before you reach for your keyboard to fire off your next response please reflect on the above. -- Craig (oh, and do not archive) ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:39 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns OK, my three cents: Its a fact that A4 rivets have a spacing of 20mm in most cases. The A5 has a 40 mm spacing however. Im still waiting if any of yous can help me with my fuel tank problem. SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mulwitz" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:16 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > Hi Paul, > > I'm trying to keep out of the Socialism discussion, but I can't resist > comment on your notion of survival gear. > > I'm afraid most folks couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a gun > such as the one you described. If they need to hit a small animal to eat > they would probably go hungry. A PLB would be a lot more useful for > survival from an off airport landing. It would allow direct communication > with search and rescue folks from just about anywhere. It even tells them > exactly where you are calling from. > > I do like the idea of keeping a small pistol handy, but there are two > differences in this idea from your survival gun. 1) I am a highly > trained marksman with a pistol. 2) It is intended for use against > malicious people rather than defenseless small animals. > > Paul > Camas, WA > do not archive > > At 12:36 PM 12/8/2008, you wrote: >>And now, back to the original question. I wouldn't bother with a handgun >>among the survival supplies. You can get a very nifty collapsible .22 - >>.410 over-and-under survival rifle (Remington, I think) for a couple of >>hundred bucks, which weighs very little, and is good out to 100 yards. >> > > > ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:58 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Do you value this list? Well put Craig! I agree wholeheartedly. Raymond Julian Kettle River, MN "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig Payne" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:31 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Do you value this list? > > Do you value this list? Did you recently make a contribution to Matt to > support it? > > THEN WHY DAMAGE IT? > > Every post you make on controversial, non-aviation related topics hurts > this > list. You drive people away. You stir up emotions that get in the way of > factual aviation-related discussions. You waste builders time. > > Your posts, no matter how clever, cutting or brilliant - WILL NOT CHANGE > MINDS on topics that have been argued over forever. > > There are plenty of places to have political discussions. There is only > one > Zenith list. If you damage or destroy it then you will have no other place > to go for help in building your Zenith aircraft. > > So before you reach for your keyboard to fire off your next response > please > reflect on the above. > > -- Craig > > (oh, and do not archive) > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 4:56 PM ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:07 PM PST US From: "David Brooks" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Do you value this list? I second that motion. I too have very, *very*, strong opinions about many of these non-aviation issues and I would be happy to debate them off list - but this is one of the few blissfully politics-free public forums I have ever read. Please, for the love of flying, can we please not let this list turn in to yet another back-and-forth political blog? Please? Please? Dave (do not archive) On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Craig Payne wrote: > > Do you value this list? Did you recently make a contribution to Matt to > support it? > > THEN WHY DAMAGE IT? > > Every post you make on controversial, non-aviation related topics hurts > this > list. You drive people away. You stir up emotions that get in the way of > factual aviation-related discussions. You waste builders time. > > Your posts, no matter how clever, cutting or brilliant - WILL NOT CHANGE > MINDS on topics that have been argued over forever. > > There are plenty of places to have political discussions. There is only one > Zenith list. If you damage or destroy it then you will have no other place > to go for help in building your Zenith aircraft. > > So before you reach for your keyboard to fire off your next response please > reflect on the above. > > -- Craig > > (oh, and do not archive) > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:15 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: MA3-SPA Throttle bellcrank Gig- Oh, yeah, I've also got the Y stick, so I don't have much choice. I just can't believe there isn't a lister out there with the same config as mine. Coming up with the measurements after the engine is mounted would be a snap, but then you'll be maneuvering around a water buffalo for sure. It'd be nice to have all the firewall stuff mounted before hanging the engine. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gig Giacona" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:34 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: MA3-SPA Throttle bellcrank > > > naumuk(at)alltel.net wrote: >> Gig- >> Unless you have a header tank in the way. >> Bill >> --- > > > Good point. I've not looked behind the panel of a 601 with a header but > while working with the a throttle cable this weekend it seems that you > could just use a longer cable to get around a water buffalo behind the > panel. Of course I'm not installing dual throttle controls either. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218192#218192 > > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:07 PM PST US From: Art Gibeaut Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Do you value this list? Craig is right guys. Nothing good can come from these off topic strings. There are all kinds of places to carry these discussions and we need to keep this list focused on building airplanes and helping each other. Please stop this. Do not archive. ----- Original Message ---- From: Craig Payne Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 4:31:28 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Do you value this list? Do you value this list? Did you recently make a contribution to Matt to support it? THEN WHY DAMAGE IT? Every post you make on controversial, non-aviation related topics hurts this list. You drive people away. You stir up emotions that get in the way of factual aviation-related discussions. You waste builders time. Your posts, no matter how clever, cutting or brilliant - WILL NOT CHANGE MINDS on topics that have been argued over forever. There are plenty of places to have political discussions. There is only one Zenith list. If you damage or destroy it then you will have no other place to go for help in building your Zenith aircraft. So before you reach for your keyboard to fire off your next response please reflect on the above. -- Craig (oh, and do not archive) ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:25 PM PST US From: "Larry Winger" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Do you value this list? Very well said, Craig. A new 650 builder contacted me this weekend and was not aware of the Matronics list. I prompted him to sign up because of the excellent builder support he would receive. I can only hope he waits a few days to subscribe so, hopefully, we can use the time to get back to the purpose for which this list was established. Larry Winger 650/Covair Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:34 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Have you ever tried to fly a GA airplane in Europe? > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Dominguez > > I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" > countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me > what it is that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified > of it. > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:39 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Do you value this list? Yep, Larry, Craig, et al. I agree that politics really don't belong here. I apologize to rising to the bait on this forum. Now, back to building my rolling wing cradles for the 601... Rick -----Original Message----- >From: Larry Winger >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 6:20 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Do you value this list? > >Very well said, Craig. > >A new 650 builder contacted me this weekend and was not aware of the >Matronics list. I prompted him to sign up because of the excellent builder >support he would receive. I can only hope he waits a few days to subscribe >so, hopefully, we can use the time to get back to the purpose for which this >list was established. > >Larry Winger >650/Covair >Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:31 PM PST US From: Elden Jacobson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Yes, Randy, I have; I teach this stuff. Your response helps explain why I a m not interested in anything (on this forum) beyond building my xl. - Elden --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Randy wrote: From: Randy Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Elden, Obviously you've never read Crichton's book.- It's loaded with fac tual data confirming what he's written, but liberals like yourself never le t the facts get in the way of or own beliefs or agenda. - Randy - Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Elden Jacobson Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:15 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Rick, - I have read regularly your emails over the period I have been on the list ( two plus years), as well as the building articles in Kitplanes, nearly all of which have been interesting and, on occasion, constructively helpful. Yo u are someone who seems to know airplanes generally, the 601 more particula rly; it is that competence which I respect. But your most-recent posts illu strate my earlier suggestion that we take discussions such as this to some other forum. Someone has observed that while we are certainly entitled to o ur individual opinions, we are not entitled to our own facts. Your earlier description of-America's past contains much that seems simply in error wh ile leaving out whatever does not easily fit. And here, citing Crichton as an authority on atmospheric warming, you repeat the difficulty. - I look forward to further discussion regarding-issues about-which you s eem-well-informed; soicialism and economic history, however, are not amon g them. - Elden J. --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Well, I get my aluminum foil (tin is too hard to come by these days) from Costco, big industrial rolls for cheap! It works just as well as tin, assum ing you keep the shiny side out when you make your hat. I assume you've read "State of Fear" by the late Michael Crichton? Absolutely nails the global warming fraud for what it is, he does! Loading up on incandescents, Rick -----Original Message----- >From: ashontz >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 10:12 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > >Rick, you wouldn't happen to be one of those tin-foil hat wearing types like me that believes that believes that maybe, just maybe, the UN and CFR along with Al Gore types can go sh!t in their flat hats and put it down over thei r ears, would you? > >Granted, Al Gore has a point, our carbon emissions are so bad, we're even managing to melt the polar caps on Mars. Believe me, that's bad. LOL > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com /contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List"'>http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:06 PM PST US From: Elden Jacobson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Rick, - Your reply (rather unlike your earlier invocation of Crichton) has the kind of temperate quality that I can respect, if not agree with. - I saw your xl in Cloverdale right after Woody Hays delivered it: beautiful! - Elden - --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Elden: Thanks for the kind words regarding my KP contributions over the years, I'm pleased you found them worth reading. I didn't realize that you and I were having a personal discussion about guns, socialism, and the like. Bill D. posed a question and I gave my opini on. Which is all it is, heartfelt as it may be. I have never claimed to "own" facts, but my observations are based on my personal experience over the last half century. I never claimed Crichton to be an expert, either, but I do know that his devotion to scientific method exceeded someone like, say, Al Gore (who has masterfully picked and chosen his data points carefully to bolster his politically charged theories). I won't be offended in the slightest if you completely dismiss anything I write outside of aviation subjects. But I have been living and observing tw ice as long as I've been flying, so forgive me if the reality of my experiences don't neatly overlay with your own. Best, Rick -----Original Message----- >From: Elden Jacobson >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 4:15 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > >Rick, > >I have read regularly your emails over the period I have been on the list (two plus years), as well as the building articles in Kitplanes, nearly all of which have been interesting and, on occasion, constructively helpful. You a re someone who seems to know airplanes generally, the 601 more particularly; i t is that competence which I respect. But your most-recent posts illustrate my earlier suggestion that we take discussions such as this to some other foru m. Someone has observed that while we are certainly entitled to our individual opinions, we are not entitled to our own facts. Your earlier description of America's past contains much that seems simply in error while leaving out whatever does not easily fit. And here, citing Crichton as an authority on atmospheric warming, you repeat the difficulty. > >I look forward to further discussion regarding issues about which you seem well-informed; soicialism and economic history, however, are not among them .. > >Elden J. > >--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: > >From: Rick Lindstrom >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 3:06 AM > > > >Well, I get my aluminum foil (tin is too hard to come by these days) from >Costco, big industrial rolls for cheap! It works just as well as tin, assuming >you keep the shiny side out when you make your hat. > >I assume you've read "State of Fear" by the late Michael >Crichton? > >Absolutely nails the global warming fraud for what it is, he does! > >Loading up on incandescents, > >Rick > >-----Original Message----- >>From: ashontz >>Sent: Dec 8, 2008 10:12 AM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >> > >> >>Rick, you wouldn't happen to be one of those tin-foil hat wearing types >like me that believes that believes that maybe, just maybe, the UN and CFR along >with Al Gore types can go sh!t in their flat hats and put it down over their >ears, would you? >> >>Granted, Al Gore has a point, our carbon emissions are so bad, we're >even managing to melt the polar caps on Mars. Believe me, that's bad. LOL >> > > ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:08 PM PST US From: Elden Jacobson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Rick, - Your reply (rather unlike your earlier invocation of Crichton) has the kind of temperate quality that I can respect, if not agree with. - I saw your xl in Cloverdale right after Woody Hays delivered it: beautiful! - Elden - --- On Tue, 12/9/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns Elden: Thanks for the kind words regarding my KP contributions over the years, I'm pleased you found them worth reading. I didn't realize that you and I were having a personal discussion about guns, socialism, and the like. Bill D. posed a question and I gave my opini on. Which is all it is, heartfelt as it may be. I have never claimed to "own" facts, but my observations are based on my personal experience over the last half century. I never claimed Crichton to be an expert, either, but I do know that his devotion to scientific method exceeded someone like, say, Al Gore (who has masterfully picked and chosen his data points carefully to bolster his politically charged theories). I won't be offended in the slightest if you completely dismiss anything I write outside of aviation subjects. But I have been living and observing tw ice as long as I've been flying, so forgive me if the reality of my experiences don't neatly overlay with your own. Best, Rick -----Original Message----- >From: Elden Jacobson >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 4:15 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > >Rick, > >I have read regularly your emails over the period I have been on the list (two plus years), as well as the building articles in Kitplanes, nearly all of which have been interesting and, on occasion, constructively helpful. You a re someone who seems to know airplanes generally, the 601 more particularly; i t is that competence which I respect. But your most-recent posts illustrate my earlier suggestion that we take discussions such as this to some other foru m. Someone has observed that while we are certainly entitled to our individual opinions, we are not entitled to our own facts. Your earlier description of America's past contains much that seems simply in error while leaving out whatever does not easily fit. And here, citing Crichton as an authority on atmospheric warming, you repeat the difficulty. > >I look forward to further discussion regarding issues about which you seem well-informed; soicialism and economic history, however, are not among them .. > >Elden J. > >--- On Tue, 12/9/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: > >From: Rick Lindstrom >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 3:06 AM > > > >Well, I get my aluminum foil (tin is too hard to come by these days) from >Costco, big industrial rolls for cheap! It works just as well as tin, assuming >you keep the shiny side out when you make your hat. > >I assume you've read "State of Fear" by the late Michael >Crichton? > >Absolutely nails the global warming fraud for what it is, he does! > >Loading up on incandescents, > >Rick > >-----Original Message----- >>From: ashontz >>Sent: Dec 8, 2008 10:12 AM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >> > >> >>Rick, you wouldn't happen to be one of those tin-foil hat wearing types >like me that believes that believes that maybe, just maybe, the UN and CFR along >with Al Gore types can go sh!t in their flat hats and put it down over their >ears, would you? >> >>Granted, Al Gore has a point, our carbon emissions are so bad, we're >even managing to melt the polar caps on Mars. Believe me, that's bad. LOL >> > > =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:33 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) the problem with the portable rifle is the caliber 0.22 (good for rats) and the price is way up $500.00. nice to put under the seat though.. Mini 14 is perfect , light, good caliber( 44 mag if desired). anyway, its good emergency in the back f the plane in a duffle alond with a wool blanket. and a first aid kit. and one good knike, prefeably a stiff k bar. with a serated side. it comes out and goes home when plane is tied down. -----Original Message----- >From: Southern Reflections >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 5:14 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) > > >Have a nice trip Let me see?,you dont have guns up there and you have free >medical. How's that's working out???? Joe N101HD do not archive >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MacDonald Doug" >To: >Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:55 PM >Subject: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related >Question - Hand guns) > > >> >> Wow, I thought is would be safe to come back on this list after your >> re-design of the 601 settled down, I've only been monitoring things for >> the last week or so but I see that things have not changed in the least. >> >> I am back outa here guys, good luck with your projects if you can ever get >> off your soapboxes long enough to actually build anything. >> >> Do Not Archive >> >> Doug MacDonald >> CH-701 Scratch Builder >> NW Ontario, Canada >> >> >> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, paulrod36@msn.com wrote: >> >>> From: paulrod36@msn.com >>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns >>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:36 PM >>> Forgive the ignorance of another barbaric American, but >>> doesn't Switzerland, the only European country never to >>> have been invaded, REQUIRE that all able bodied men own a >>> rifle? However, fear not--- we Americans, having done it >>> twice before, can still remember how to liberate Europe. >>> But the question is, will we, or will Europe have to free >>> itself next time, armed with a bag of high quality hash, a >>> bottle of Pilsener, and a pack of Galoises? I remember as a >>> kid telling my uncle I was taking French in school, and he >>> told me he knew all the French an American needed to know: >>> "Ou sont les Allemagnes?" >>> >>> OK. let the flames (flambeaux) begin! On second thought, >>> let me add a little gasoline--The only people ever brought >>> to this country against their will were the Africans. So how >>> come there's more Europeans here than black people? >>> >>> And now, back to the original question. I wouldn't >>> bother with a handgun among the survival supplies. You can >>> get a very nifty collapsible .22 - .410 over-and-under >>> survival rifle (Remington, I think) for a couple of hundred >>> bucks, which weighs very little, and is good out to 100 >>> yards. >>> >>> OK, prepare to flame,-----wait for it,-------FLAME! >>> >>> Paul Rodriguez >>> 601XL/Corvair >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:46 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns Ya, thank god, and hope the Nazi's don't come back !!! Roger -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Tiethoff (HCCNet) Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:59 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns Why in the world should anybody carry a handgun ? Try grenades ! FAA aproved. Leaves no broken rivets. Only advantages ! Win win situation ! In Europe it is (thank God) forbidden to carry arms... Live safe and fly safe ! Greetings from Holland. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Rich Simmons" <4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:46 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your > person at airports and such. > I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was wondering if > anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately? > > DO NOT ACHIEVE > > -- > Thanks, > Rich Simmons > > > ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:51 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns An 18 year old drinking is putting his life on the line,and mine. Too many close calls delivering pizzas to the dorms not to notice a huge reduction in close calls after the drinking age went up. Roger -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of aprazer Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 1:40 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns I'd like to weigh-in on this discussion! I remember the days of being a kid -- when we took guns to school for show and tell, trade, barter, etc... Now a kid will wind up in jail for mentioning that he/she has a gun. The same goes for drinking, a kid can be 18 and put his life on the line for his country, but if he is caught in the vicinity of an open alcoholic beverage -- he/she is punished. Oh how I miss the days of old! I think the pendulum has swung to far and it is time for it to come back. Now I'm stepping off my soap box and going back to flying I'll recommend that you carry a weapon as part of your survival gear -- especially in the wide open spaces or mountainous areas of the West. You may need it to supply nourishment! Mack 601XL N990MK -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218269#218269 ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:26 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns I would just like to point out, the only people the American police are trained to protect, are themselves. Got Amo? Roger _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Dominguez Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:34 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns But pure socialism is not what this country is moving toward in any shape of form. That will be an irrational fear because it won't happen here in America. When it comes to European style socialism, most of the fear are based in misconceptions about their system and exaggeration of their disadvantages. My point all along have not been that their system is better and we should move to that model. My point is that it does not justify the fear and contempt that some people express. William Dominguez Zodiac 601XL Plans --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns True, there is no pure capitalism. Pure socialism is another matter, requiring a totally dependent society on a dictator, monarch, or ruling cabal. It's been tried before with disastrous results. Whether fears about increasing socialism (requiring some loss of freedom) are "irrational" or not depends on your perspective, I guess. You asked why fear socialism, and the reason is that it requires that someone else surrender something (usually against their will). What is freedom, anyway? There can be no freedom without property rights, which includes the right to keep what you've earned through your own industry. >From what I've seen, every time we embrace some new socialistic program that allows us to feel better about ourselves for some brief period of time, the societal costs are just too high. Our government has no business taking by force from one to give to another outside of what's conceded by the Constitution (and thereby insuring their own political careers). I have no problem with charitable giving and public service programs, but this should be the province of churches and private community service organizations. When you rob from Peter to give to Paul, Paul will for sure vote for you again. Maybe Peter will too, if you convince him that it's for his own good. Socialism is based on the theory that someone else knows better than you do how to manage your affairs and your personal effects. It also assumes that societal power properly resides with those who rule, instead of sparingly granted from the citizenry. I can't think of two better reasons to reject socialism, and those who would enslave us further with it. Rick -----Original Message----- >From: William Dominguez >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 9:52 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > >Hi Rick, > >Thanks for a very thoughtful post Rick. However, let me clarify that my original point was about irrational fears and not about European socialism vs. American capitalism. After all, America is not purely capitalistic and Europe is not purely socialistic. > > >William Dominguez >Zodiac 601XL Plans >Miami Florida >http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > > >--- On Mon, 12/8/08, Rick Lindstrom wrote: >From: Rick Lindstrom >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 12:06 PM > > > >Hi, Bill! The following is a long post, and has nothing to so with Zenith >aircraft, only the ability to continue to fly them in the US. > >Rather than respond with "what's wrong with socialism," I'd >prefer to answer with "what's right with America." I'm old >enough to remember having good public schools, where kids with disruptive social >problems were not allowed in the classroom, we recited the pledge every morning, >and had comprehensive classes on American history that showcased the ideals that >created this unique country. > >If I recall correctly, America was founded on religious freedom, personal >responsibility, and unlimited opportunity. The government was by the people, not >a king or dictator. The citizens themselves determined their futures through >their representitives, who would leave their own farms or businesses for a few >years, serve their constituents, and then return to their homes. Career >politicians hadn't been invented yet. > >America has long been a burr under the saddle of many communist and socialist >countries, attracting immigrants from all over the world who trade everything >for a single shot at what our citizens all too often take for granted. America >could never be conquered by foreign military force, so there's been a >constant undermining of traditional American values and our unique culture over >the past 50 years instead. > >And every time we've embarked on some new shiny leftist government program >that promises to be the solution to our social ills, we've dug ourselves >deeper and deeper into debt and social unrest. Be it LBJ's Great Society, >Affirmative Action, the American Disabilities Act, Women's Liberation, Gay >Liberation, the Community Reinvestment Act, the EPA, the NEA, or even the TSA, >we've only succeeded in removing the commonality we once felt as proud >Americans and divided Americans into balkanized victim/grievance groups who now >view each other with distrust. And our government, who we've traditionally >had faith in to be fair and even handed, now views its citizens as mere rabble, >whose only value is as a source of income and votes every now and then. Every >time I stand in an airport security line, I wonder about the promise of >"innocent until proven guilty." Now it's the other way around. > >It's sad. The whole point of the civil rights movement in the mid 60s was >to make race a non-issue. Instead, we've made race, gender, ethnic or >religious backgrounds, sexual orientation, and handicaps bargaining chips for >societal handouts. Toss in the hugely divisive Vietnam war, media glorification >of thuggery, several generations of kids who've been dumbed down and robbed >of their proud heritage in public schools, and we have a country at odds with >itself, ripe for the pickin'. > >But there's still a few of us left who will not go along quietly. We know >that the second amendment is the one that guarantees all the others, we know >that the responsibility of personal safety and defense cannot be subcontracted >out, and we know that this country belongs to its citizens. It is not a >plaything for those who fancy themselves smarter or better that the people they >purport to "serve." > >Americans are richly blessed to have inherited a legacy of freedom that their >forefathers have bled and died for. And it's up to us to protect it, and >hand it down to our children and their children. > >I'll take an imperfect free America over perfect socialism any day. The >sovereignty of the individual Amercian is priceless. > >Aim small, miss small. > >Rick Lindstrom >N42KP > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Dominguez > Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" >countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is >that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. > > So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and >Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other >inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo >afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 >or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to >realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family >members. > > Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. > > William Dominguez > Zodiac 601XL Plans > Miami Florida > http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom > > do not archive > >-----Original Message----- >>From: William Dominguez >>Sent: Dec 8, 2008 7:22 AM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >> >>I would like those of you in this list who live in "socialist" >countries (Canada, Spain, England and may be Australia) to tell me what it is >that is so bad that make my fellow Americans so terrified of it. >> >>So far, I've been in Spain, England, France, Germany, Netherlands and >Jersey Channel Island, and other than higher taxes and some other >inconveniences, I still fail to see what make some people in the US to be sooo >afraid of it, like living in an Orwellian society as portrayed in the movie 1984 >or something of that nature. Ok, may be they are and I just been unable to >realized as a tourist traveling and staying in the homes of locals and family >members. >> >>Sorry Andy, but I felt like stiring today. >> >>William Dominguez >>Zodiac 601XL Plans >>Miami Florida >>http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom >> >>do not archive >>--- On Mon, 12/8/08, ashontz wrote: >>From: ashontz >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Non building related Question - Hand guns >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 9:24 AM >> >> >> >>Yeah, the gummint would LOVE everyone disarmed, that way they can more >easily >>shove socialism (communism with patience) down everyone's throats. >>There's a reason the right to bear arms is allegedly protected by the >>Constitution, for good reason too. We're sliding down a slippery slope >here >>in the US. >> >> >>jaybannist(at)cs.com wrote: >>> Why in ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:02 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns Defenseless small animals? Are you nuts? The last rabbit I shot charged me, it headed straight form my iliac artery !!!!!! Roger -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:16 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns Hi Paul, I'm trying to keep out of the Socialism discussion, but I can't resist comment on your notion of survival gear. I'm afraid most folks couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with a gun such as the one you described. If they need to hit a small animal to eat they would probably go hungry. A PLB would be a lot more useful for survival from an off airport landing. It would allow direct communication with search and rescue folks from just about anywhere. It even tells them exactly where you are calling from. I do like the idea of keeping a small pistol handy, but there are two differences in this idea from your survival gun. 1) I am a highly trained marksman with a pistol. 2) It is intended for use against malicious people rather than defenseless small animals. Paul Camas, WA do not archive At 12:36 PM 12/8/2008, you wrote: >And now, back to the original question. I wouldn't bother with a >handgun among the survival supplies. You can get a very nifty >collapsible .22 - .410 over-and-under survival rifle (Remington, I >think) for a couple of hundred bucks, which weighs very little, and >is good out to 100 yards. > ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:54 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Do you value this list? From: "Tommy Walker" Hi, I used to read the Zenith list regularly but was disappointed and left because of one fellow. I now reside on the 701/801 and Rotax Engine lists. The reason I posted here is because: 1. I agree with Craig's comment. 2. I got the email today from Matt Draille with the list of contributers and browsed down the list, first to make sure my name was on the list, since I do make a contribution each year. After seeing that my name was included, I scrolled back up the list to see if a certain person who was the primary reason for me leaving made a contribution. Guess what? His name was not listed. I know that mistakes can happen and perhaps the person's name got left off the list inadvertently. Hopefully that is the case. Tommy Walker in Alabama Do Not Archive :) -------- Tommy Walker N8701 - Anniston, AL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218365#218365 ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:37 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns that is hillarious. ! -----Original Message----- >From: Walter Yankauskas >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 12:14 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > >Up until a few years ago, you were required to have a firearm as part of >your emergency kit in Alaska. > >Most people carried pistols, which leads to the old joke: "Why do you >file the front sight off of a 357 Magnum pistol?" > >The answer is "So that it doesn't hurt so much when the bear shoves it >up your a**". > >Walter from Anchorage - working on 701 Right Wing > >Do not archive > >Rich Simmons wrote: >> >> Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your person at airports and such. >> I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was wondering if anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately? >> >> DO NOT ACHIEVE >> >> -- >> Thanks, >> Rich Simmons >> > > ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:56 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns I support the right to arm bears. -- Craig Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan Vega Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 5:59 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns that is hillarious. ! -----Original Message----- >From: Walter Yankauskas >Sent: Dec 8, 2008 12:14 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns > > >Up until a few years ago, you were required to have a firearm as part of >your emergency kit in Alaska. > >Most people carried pistols, which leads to the old joke: "Why do you >file the front sight off of a 357 Magnum pistol?" > >The answer is "So that it doesn't hurt so much when the bear shoves it >up your a**". > >Walter from Anchorage - working on 701 Right Wing > >Do not archive > >Rich Simmons wrote: >> >> Does anybody know what is the legal rules for carrying a handgun on your person at airports and such. >> I know handgun rules vary from state to state however i was wondering if anybody had any knowledge on this thought while flying privately? >> >> DO NOT ACHIEVE >> >> -- >> Thanks, >> Rich Simmons >> > > ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:18 PM PST US From: "Southern Reflections" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) Juan , when I was A kid we would kill gators in those same everglades that you are flying over,with one shot I mite add. Mini-14 is a good choice ,but a.22 is lighter and you can carry 100 rounds in one hand. stinger makes a shell that is a long ,but it is a lot hotter than a regular longs kel-tec makes a small fold up .22 that is just right for a air plane it's a " pack gun " .no where near $500.00 .I also carry a hunting knife in a belt case that also has a hatchet as part of it,good for getting out of the plane in inverted landings;that knife set is made by smith/wesson Joe N101HD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:52 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) > > the problem with the portable rifle is the caliber 0.22 (good for rats) > and the price is way up $500.00. nice to put under the seat though.. Mini > 14 is perfect , light, good caliber( 44 mag if desired). anyway, its good > emergency in the back f the plane in a duffle alond with a wool blanket. > and a first aid kit. and one good knike, prefeably a stiff k bar. with a > serated side. it comes out and goes home when plane is tied down. > > -----Original Message----- >>From: Southern Reflections >>Sent: Dec 8, 2008 5:14 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related >>Question - Hand guns) >> >> >> >>Have a nice trip Let me see?,you dont have guns up there and you have free >>medical. How's that's working out???? Joe N101HD do not archive >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "MacDonald Doug" >>To: >>Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:55 PM >>Subject: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related >>Question - Hand guns) >> >> >>> >>> Wow, I thought is would be safe to come back on this list after your >>> re-design of the 601 settled down, I've only been monitoring things for >>> the last week or so but I see that things have not changed in the least. >>> >>> I am back outa here guys, good luck with your projects if you can ever >>> get >>> off your soapboxes long enough to actually build anything. >>> >>> Do Not Archive >>> >>> Doug MacDonald >>> CH-701 Scratch Builder >>> NW Ontario, Canada >>> >>> >>> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, paulrod36@msn.com wrote: >>> >>>> From: paulrod36@msn.com >>>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns >>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:36 PM >>>> Forgive the ignorance of another barbaric American, but >>>> doesn't Switzerland, the only European country never to >>>> have been invaded, REQUIRE that all able bodied men own a >>>> rifle? However, fear not--- we Americans, having done it >>>> twice before, can still remember how to liberate Europe. >>>> But the question is, will we, or will Europe have to free >>>> itself next time, armed with a bag of high quality hash, a >>>> bottle of Pilsener, and a pack of Galoises? I remember as a >>>> kid telling my uncle I was taking French in school, and he >>>> told me he knew all the French an American needed to know: >>>> "Ou sont les Allemagnes?" >>>> >>>> OK. let the flames (flambeaux) begin! On second thought, >>>> let me add a little gasoline--The only people ever brought >>>> to this country against their will were the Africans. So how >>>> come there's more Europeans here than black people? >>>> >>>> And now, back to the original question. I wouldn't >>>> bother with a handgun among the survival supplies. You can >>>> get a very nifty collapsible .22 - .410 over-and-under >>>> survival rifle (Remington, I think) for a couple of hundred >>>> bucks, which weighs very little, and is good out to 100 >>>> yards. >>>> >>>> OK, prepare to flame,-----wait for it,-------FLAME! >>>> >>>> Paul Rodriguez >>>> 601XL/Corvair >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:11 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) I m in Arizona and have a CCW. I dont advertise that I always carry my 9. SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Southern Reflections" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) > > > Juan , when I was A kid we would kill gators in those same everglades > that you are flying over,with one shot I mite add. Mini-14 is a good > choice ,but a.22 is lighter and you can carry 100 rounds in one hand. > stinger makes a shell that is a long ,but it is a lot hotter than a > regular longs kel-tec makes a small fold up .22 that is just right for a > air plane it's a " pack gun " .no where near $500.00 .I also carry a > hunting knife in a belt case that also has a hatchet as part of it,good > for getting out of the plane in inverted landings;that knife set is made > by smith/wesson Joe N101HD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Juan Vega" > To: ; > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:52 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related > Question - Hand guns) > > >> >> the problem with the portable rifle is the caliber 0.22 (good for rats) >> and the price is way up $500.00. nice to put under the seat though.. >> Mini 14 is perfect , light, good caliber( 44 mag if desired). anyway, its >> good emergency in the back f the plane in a duffle alond with a wool >> blanket. and a first aid kit. and one good knike, prefeably a stiff k >> bar. with a serated side. it comes out and goes home when plane is tied >> down. >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: Southern Reflections >>>Sent: Dec 8, 2008 5:14 PM >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related >>>Question - Hand guns) >>> >>> >>> >>>Have a nice trip Let me see?,you dont have guns up there and you have >>>free >>>medical. How's that's working out???? Joe N101HD do not archive >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "MacDonald Doug" >>>To: >>>Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:55 PM >>>Subject: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related >>>Question - Hand guns) >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Wow, I thought is would be safe to come back on this list after your >>>> re-design of the 601 settled down, I've only been monitoring things for >>>> the last week or so but I see that things have not changed in the >>>> least. >>>> >>>> I am back outa here guys, good luck with your projects if you can ever >>>> get >>>> off your soapboxes long enough to actually build anything. >>>> >>>> Do Not Archive >>>> >>>> Doug MacDonald >>>> CH-701 Scratch Builder >>>> NW Ontario, Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, paulrod36@msn.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: paulrod36@msn.com >>>>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns >>>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>>> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:36 PM >>>>> Forgive the ignorance of another barbaric American, but >>>>> doesn't Switzerland, the only European country never to >>>>> have been invaded, REQUIRE that all able bodied men own a >>>>> rifle? However, fear not--- we Americans, having done it >>>>> twice before, can still remember how to liberate Europe. >>>>> But the question is, will we, or will Europe have to free >>>>> itself next time, armed with a bag of high quality hash, a >>>>> bottle of Pilsener, and a pack of Galoises? I remember as a >>>>> kid telling my uncle I was taking French in school, and he >>>>> told me he knew all the French an American needed to know: >>>>> "Ou sont les Allemagnes?" >>>>> >>>>> OK. let the flames (flambeaux) begin! On second thought, >>>>> let me add a little gasoline--The only people ever brought >>>>> to this country against their will were the Africans. So how >>>>> come there's more Europeans here than black people? >>>>> >>>>> And now, back to the original question. I wouldn't >>>>> bother with a handgun among the survival supplies. You can >>>>> get a very nifty collapsible .22 - .410 over-and-under >>>>> survival rifle (Remington, I think) for a couple of hundred >>>>> bucks, which weighs very little, and is good out to 100 >>>>> yards. >>>>> >>>>> OK, prepare to flame,-----wait for it,-------FLAME! >>>>> >>>>> Paul Rodriguez >>>>> 601XL/Corvair >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 70 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:49 PM PST US From: Don Mountain Subject: Zenith-List: New Main Landing Gear rubber pads Has anybody purchased or received a set of the new main landing gear rubber pads on the 601XL?- They are supposed to replace the cut rubber heater h ose pieces in the fuselage channel and clamp around the main landing gear m ounts.- Are they worth the money and seem like a good deal?- I am in th e process of mounting my landing gear and was told Zenith is selling a new type that is a great improvement over the old type. Don, 601XL tail done, wings done, finishing up fuselage =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 71 ____________________________________ Time: 07:26:15 PM PST US From: "Dirk Zahtilla" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) can't blame you, a 45 is much better Dirk ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 7:14 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) > > I m in Arizona and have a CCW. I dont advertise that I always carry my 9. > > SW > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Southern Reflections" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:28 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related > Question - Hand guns) > > >> >> >> Juan , when I was A kid we would kill gators in those same everglades >> that you are flying over,with one shot I mite add. Mini-14 is a good >> choice ,but a.22 is lighter and you can carry 100 rounds in one hand. >> stinger makes a shell that is a long ,but it is a lot hotter than a >> regular longs kel-tec makes a small fold up .22 that is just right for a >> air plane it's a " pack gun " .no where near $500.00 .I also carry a >> hunting knife in a belt case that also has a hatchet as part of it,good >> for getting out of the plane in inverted landings;that knife set is made >> by smith/wesson Joe N101HD >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Juan Vega" >> To: ; >> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:52 PM >> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related >> Question - Hand guns) >> >> >>> >>> the problem with the portable rifle is the caliber 0.22 (good for rats) >>> and the price is way up $500.00. nice to put under the seat though.. >>> Mini 14 is perfect , light, good caliber( 44 mag if desired). anyway, >>> its good emergency in the back f the plane in a duffle alond with a wool >>> blanket. and a first aid kit. and one good knike, prefeably a stiff k >>> bar. with a serated side. it comes out and goes home when plane is tied >>> down. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>>>From: Southern Reflections >>>>Sent: Dec 8, 2008 5:14 PM >>>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building >>>>related Question - Hand guns) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Have a nice trip Let me see?,you dont have guns up there and you have >>>>free >>>>medical. How's that's working out???? Joe N101HD do not archive >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "MacDonald Doug" >>>>To: >>>>Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:55 PM >>>>Subject: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related >>>>Question - Hand guns) >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Wow, I thought is would be safe to come back on this list after your >>>>> re-design of the 601 settled down, I've only been monitoring things >>>>> for >>>>> the last week or so but I see that things have not changed in the >>>>> least. >>>>> >>>>> I am back outa here guys, good luck with your projects if you can ever >>>>> get >>>>> off your soapboxes long enough to actually build anything. >>>>> >>>>> Do Not Archive >>>>> >>>>> Doug MacDonald >>>>> CH-701 Scratch Builder >>>>> NW Ontario, Canada >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, paulrod36@msn.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> From: paulrod36@msn.com >>>>>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns >>>>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>>>> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:36 PM >>>>>> Forgive the ignorance of another barbaric American, but >>>>>> doesn't Switzerland, the only European country never to >>>>>> have been invaded, REQUIRE that all able bodied men own a >>>>>> rifle? However, fear not--- we Americans, having done it >>>>>> twice before, can still remember how to liberate Europe. >>>>>> But the question is, will we, or will Europe have to free >>>>>> itself next time, armed with a bag of high quality hash, a >>>>>> bottle of Pilsener, and a pack of Galoises? I remember as a >>>>>> kid telling my uncle I was taking French in school, and he >>>>>> told me he knew all the French an American needed to know: >>>>>> "Ou sont les Allemagnes?" >>>>>> >>>>>> OK. let the flames (flambeaux) begin! On second thought, >>>>>> let me add a little gasoline--The only people ever brought >>>>>> to this country against their will were the Africans. So how >>>>>> come there's more Europeans here than black people? >>>>>> >>>>>> And now, back to the original question. I wouldn't >>>>>> bother with a handgun among the survival supplies. You can >>>>>> get a very nifty collapsible .22 - .410 over-and-under >>>>>> survival rifle (Remington, I think) for a couple of hundred >>>>>> bucks, which weighs very little, and is good out to 100 >>>>>> yards. >>>>>> >>>>>> OK, prepare to flame,-----wait for it,-------FLAME! >>>>>> >>>>>> Paul Rodriguez >>>>>> 601XL/Corvair >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 72 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:32 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) For God's sake guys, lets get back to plane issues. and how about "do not archive"? The archives are full af all that crap.. Matt Dralle, can you screen this rubbish out? Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ________________________________ Message 73 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:15 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) You just did..... -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:15 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) I m in Arizona and have a CCW. I dont advertise that I always carry my 9. SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Southern Reflections" Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:28 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) > > > Juan , when I was A kid we would kill gators in those same everglades > that you are flying over,with one shot I mite add. Mini-14 is a good > choice ,but a.22 is lighter and you can carry 100 rounds in one hand. > stinger makes a shell that is a long ,but it is a lot hotter than a > regular longs kel-tec makes a small fold up .22 that is just right for a > air plane it's a " pack gun " .no where near $500.00 .I also carry a > hunting knife in a belt case that also has a hatchet as part of it,good > for getting out of the plane in inverted landings;that knife set is made > by smith/wesson Joe N101HD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Juan Vega" > To: ; > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:52 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related > Question - Hand guns) > > >> >> the problem with the portable rifle is the caliber 0.22 (good for rats) >> and the price is way up $500.00. nice to put under the seat though.. >> Mini 14 is perfect , light, good caliber( 44 mag if desired). anyway, its >> good emergency in the back f the plane in a duffle alond with a wool >> blanket. and a first aid kit. and one good knike, prefeably a stiff k >> bar. with a serated side. it comes out and goes home when plane is tied >> down. >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: Southern Reflections >>>Sent: Dec 8, 2008 5:14 PM >>>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related >>>Question - Hand guns) >>> >>> >>> >>>Have a nice trip Let me see?,you dont have guns up there and you have >>>free >>>medical. How's that's working out???? Joe N101HD do not archive >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "MacDonald Doug" >>>To: >>>Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 3:55 PM >>>Subject: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related >>>Question - Hand guns) >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Wow, I thought is would be safe to come back on this list after your >>>> re-design of the 601 settled down, I've only been monitoring things for >>>> the last week or so but I see that things have not changed in the >>>> least. >>>> >>>> I am back outa here guys, good luck with your projects if you can ever >>>> get >>>> off your soapboxes long enough to actually build anything. >>>> >>>> Do Not Archive >>>> >>>> Doug MacDonald >>>> CH-701 Scratch Builder >>>> NW Ontario, Canada >>>> >>>> >>>> --- On Mon, 12/8/08, paulrod36@msn.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> From: paulrod36@msn.com >>>>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Non building related Question - Hand guns >>>>> To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>>>> Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 2:36 PM >>>>> Forgive the ignorance of another barbaric American, but >>>>> doesn't Switzerland, the only European country never to >>>>> have been invaded, REQUIRE that all able bodied men own a >>>>> rifle? However, fear not--- we Americans, having done it >>>>> twice before, can still remember how to liberate Europe. >>>>> But the question is, will we, or will Europe have to free >>>>> itself next time, armed with a bag of high quality hash, a >>>>> bottle of Pilsener, and a pack of Galoises? I remember as a >>>>> kid telling my uncle I was taking French in school, and he >>>>> told me he knew all the French an American needed to know: >>>>> "Ou sont les Allemagnes?" >>>>> >>>>> OK. let the flames (flambeaux) begin! On second thought, >>>>> let me add a little gasoline--The only people ever brought >>>>> to this country against their will were the Africans. So how >>>>> come there's more Europeans here than black people? >>>>> >>>>> And now, back to the original question. I wouldn't >>>>> bother with a handgun among the survival supplies. You can >>>>> get a very nifty collapsible .22 - .410 over-and-under >>>>> survival rifle (Remington, I think) for a couple of hundred >>>>> bucks, which weighs very little, and is good out to 100 >>>>> yards. >>>>> >>>>> OK, prepare to flame,-----wait for it,-------FLAME! >>>>> >>>>> Paul Rodriguez >>>>> 601XL/Corvair >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 74 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:13 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) I agree, lets get back to plane issues. So, anyone installing seal sealing tanks:) Roger -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Austin Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 9:36 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: You guys are NUTS!!! (was :Non building related Question - Hand guns) For God's sake guys, lets get back to plane issues. and how about "do not archive"? The archives are full af all that crap.. Matt Dralle, can you screen this rubbish out? Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.