Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:53 AM - Re: Re: Engine Cooling (Roger & Lina Hill)
2. 06:44 AM - Re: Re: Engine Cooling (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
3. 06:44 AM - Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas (Bill Naumuk)
4. 06:52 AM - Re: Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
5. 07:36 AM - Re: Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas (jaybannist@cs.com)
6. 11:06 AM - Re: Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas (Bill Naumuk)
7. 11:08 AM - Re: Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas (Bill Naumuk)
8. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: Engine Cooling (Bryan Martin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Cooling |
Jeff;
It is always better to have built "one airplane" before advising folks on
their airplane problems, or for that matter, 10 airplanes. But skills in
cutting metal and driving rivets has little to do with intellectual skills
such as analyzing studies and applying knowledge to abstract problems such
as thermal conduction (that's what engineers do).
Take it easy on Brady, he is on the right track and just trying to help (no
good deed goes unpunished !!!!)
Roger
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Engine Cooling
Brady
With all due respect, how many aircraft have you built? You are starting to
be the WW of the Zenith list. I think you are a smart guy and like what you
are trying to do but wouldn't it be better to have built at least 1 airplane
before you hand out answers to others problems? Having worked on a Jab that
overheats it is a pain in the ass engine when it comes to cooling. Jab will
tell you they don't have a problem but I have seen too many posts about
overheating to believe that.
BTW if the intake is small where is it going to "Suck" the air from? The Jab
uses small deflectors inside the baffles and if they are too big or small
the rear cylinder will overheat.
Jeff
Bobby,
Be sure not to over look the exit.
All the intake in the world won't do you any good if it has nowhere to go.
Try to "suck" the cooling through.
I have seen studies that say the intake is far less important than the
exhaust side of the cooling system.
Also be sure you oil cooler is getting fresh air.
the oil cooler is at least as important because it is an integral part of
the whole cooling picture.
Just food for thought.
Good luck.
_____
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Mail. Try
025> it now.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Cooling |
Roger,
You are right to a point but there is no better teacher than experience. I
didn't want to sound harsh with my comment to Brady but after reading it aga
in
it was just that. I am working on ram air ducts for the 601 and 650 to fit
our new cowling and while it looks like it should work in theory will it wo
rk
in the air?
Jeff;
It is always better to have built =9Cone airplane=9D before adv
ising folks on
their airplane problems, or for that matter, 10 airplanes. But skills in
cutting metal and driving rivets has little to do with intellectual skills
such as
analyzing studies and applying knowledge to abstract problems such as
thermal conduction (that=99s what engineers do).
Take it easy on Brady, he is on the right track and just trying to help (no
good deed goes unpunished !!!!)
Roger
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
m00000025)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas |
Steve+All-
I was such a happy camper at the way the panel turned out I forgot
to attach the PDF that was sent to me by a fellow member of my trade
society. Someone has entirely too much time on their hands!
No doubt I could have got exactly the material I wanted from
McMaster Carr if I would have shot them an e-mail asking for a
recommendation for exactly what I was looking for, but I wanted to make
sure I didn't blow two weeks off work waiting for materials to arrive.
As it is, I have a solid, machinable base and should be able to make
good progress. Total cost? $6.67 plus $5.50 shipping. This is one of the
very few times that something worked out satisfactorily without it
costing me a fortune in time and money.
Check out the runway!
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: steve
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Laminating Panel
I plan on using laminate also, "someday".
I just purchased a new hermes engraver to do the job of engraving and
also produce data plates/placards to sell on ebay....
sw
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Laminating Panel
All-
This turned out much better than I expected, but I'm sure the
procedure can be improved on by the next guy.
1. Materials were McMaster-Carr 8747K134 for the laminate. This
stuff is listed as "Gray", but as you can see it's
only a step up from black. If I were doing it again I'd go for
their "Off White". Adhesive was ACS 08-01026, which is
flat-out amazing stuff.
2. Before laminating the panel I experimented using extra
laminate glued to .020 scrap stock. In my "Cuts"
attachment, the top sample used an HF fly cutter, the bottom a hole
saw. Both were machined from the top and cut
clean with no tearing or fractures.
3. The stock was so shiny, I originally thought it was covered
with a protective film ala the sheet you get from Wicks.
WRONG! I have unavoidable scuffs in the material, and it's too shiny
for my liking. Consequently, I'm going to rub the
panel down with Dupont Polishing Compound just before final
instrument installation.
4. I originally thought I would have to screw the panel/laminate
sandwich down to my bench in order to get a good,
flat bond but it's not necessary with the ACS adhesive. I sprayed
both the panel and the laminate, counted to 60 and
put them together. You have minimal but acceptable working time.
After lining up and putting the pieces together
I rolled them out with an edging flooring roller. That's it!
The laminate adds enough strength to enable you to fearlessly
drill your instrument holes and won't scratch like
paint. Added weight is negligible.
Good building and Merry Christmas!
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS 601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas |
Bill
Building the panel is I find one of the most fun parts of the airplane.
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas |
Bill,
Great project! But whosoever checked the engineering drawing overlooked a couple
of small items. 1) Lacking a lighted wind sock, how will the Jolly Old Elf know
which direction to land?? 2) At least, in my household, the star atop the
Christmas tree is not the "North Star"; it represents the star that guided the
various players to the manger where the baby Jesus was.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL !!!
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 8:42 am
Subject: Zenith-List: Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas
Steve+All-
??? I was such a happy camper at the
way the panel turned out I forgot to attach the PDF that was sent to me by a
fellow member of my trade society. Someone has entirely too much time on their
hands!
????No doubt?I could have
got exactly the material I wanted from McMaster Carr if I would have shot them
an e-mail asking for a recommendation for exactly what I was looking for, but I
wanted to make sure I didn't blow two weeks off work waiting for materials to
arrive. As it is, I have a solid, machinable base and should be able to make
good progress. Total cost? $6.67 plus $5.50 shipping. This is one of the very
few times that something worked out satisfactorily without it costing me a
fortune in time and money.
??? Check out the
runway!
??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? Bill
??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? ??? ??? ???
??? do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From:
steve
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:24
PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Laminating
Panel
I plan on using laminate also,
"someday".
I just purchased a new hermes engraver to do the
job of engraving and also produce data plates/placards to sell on
ebay....
?
sw
?
----- Original Message -----
From:
Bill Naumuk
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:43
PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Laminating
Panel
All-
??? This turned out much better
than I expected, but I'm sure the procedure can be improved on by the next
guy.
??? 1. Materials were
McMaster-Carr 8747K134 for the laminate.?This stuff is listed as
"Gray", but as you can see it's
?only a step up from black. If I were doing it again I'd go for their "Off
White". Adhesive was ACS 08-01026, which is
flat-out amazing stuff.
??? 2. Before laminating the
panel I experimented using extra laminate glued to .020 scrap stock. In my
"Cuts"
attachment, the top sample used an HF fly
cutter, the bottom a hole saw. Both were?machined from the top and
cut?
clean with no
tearing or fractures.
??? 3. The stock was so shiny, I
originally thought it was covered with a protective film ala the sheet you
get from Wicks.
WRONG! I have unavoidable scuffs in the
material, and it's too shiny for my liking. Consequently, I'm going
to?rub the
panel down with Dupont Polishing Compound just
before final instrument installation.
??? 4. I originally thought I
would have to screw the panel/laminate sandwich down to my bench in order to
get a good,
flat bond but it's not necessary with the ACS adhesive. I sprayed both the panel
and the
laminate, counted to 60 and
?put them together. You have minimal but acceptable working time. After lining
up and putting the pieces together
I rolled them out with an edging?flooring roller. That's it!
??? The laminate adds enough
strength to enable you to fearlessly drill your instrument holes and won't
scratch like
paint. Added weight is negligible.
??????? Good
building and Merry Christmas!
???
???
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS
601MG/Corvair 95%
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas |
Jay-
My fault for not having reviewed the drawing for discrepancies.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: jaybannist@cs.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas
Bill,
Great project! But whosoever checked the engineering drawing
overlooked a couple of small items. 1) Lacking a lighted wind sock, how
will the Jolly Old Elf know which direction to land? 2) At least, in my
household, the star atop the Christmas tree is not the "North Star"; it
represents the star that guided the various players to the manger where
the baby Jesus was.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL !!!
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 8:42 am
Subject: Zenith-List: Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas
Steve+All-
I was such a happy camper at the way the panel turned out I forgot
to attach the PDF that was sent to me by a fellow member of my trade
society. Someone has entirely too much time on their hands!
No doubt I could have got exactly the material I wanted from
McMaster Carr if I would have shot them an e-mail asking for a
recommendation for exactly what I was looking for, but I wanted to make
sure I didn't blow two weeks off work waiting for materials to arrive.
As it is, I have a solid, machinable base and should be able to make
good progress. Total cost? $6.67 plus $5.50 shipping. This is one of the
very few times that something worked out satisfactorily without it
costing me a fortune in time and money.
Check out the runway!
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: steve
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:24 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Laminating Panel
I plan on using laminate also, "someday".
I just purchased a new hermes engraver to do the job of engraving
and also produce data plates/placards to sell on ebay....
sw
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Laminating Panel
All-
This turned out much better than I expected, but I'm sure the
procedure can be improved on by the next guy.
1. Materials were McMaster-Carr 8747K134 for the laminate.
This stuff is listed as "Gray", but as you can see it's
only a step up from black. If I were doing it again I'd go for
their "Off White". Adhesive was ACS 08-01026, which is
flat-out amazing stuff.
2. Before laminating the panel I experimented using extra
laminate glued to .020 scrap stock. In my "Cuts"
attachment, the top sample used an HF fly cutter, the bottom a
hole saw. Both were machined from the top and cut
clean with no tearing or fractures.
3. The stock was so shiny, I originally thought it was covered
with a protective film ala the sheet you get from Wicks.
WRONG! I have unavoidable scuffs in the material, and it's too
shiny for my liking. Consequently, I'm going to rub the
panel down with Dupont Polishing Compound just before final
instrument installation.
4. I originally thought I would have to screw the
panel/laminate sandwich down to my bench in order to get a good,
flat bond but it's not necessary with the ACS adhesive. I sprayed
both the panel and the laminate, counted to 60 and
put them together. You have minimal but acceptable working time.
After lining up and putting the pieces together
I rolled them out with an edging flooring roller. That's it!
The laminate adds enough strength to enable you to fearlessly
drill your instrument holes and won't scratch like
paint. Added weight is negligible.
Good building and Merry Christmas!
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS 601MG/Corvair 95%
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at
http://www.cs.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Laminating Panel/Engineer's Christmas |
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Cooling |
If the heated air can't get out of the cowling, it doesn't matter how
well designed the inlets and baffling are. In the ideal cooling
design, the outlet area should be about 1 1/2 times the inlet area. In
any case, the outlet must be at a lower pressure than the inlet.
Putting a lip projecting down into the airstream ahead of the outlet
will often greatly improve the effectiveness of the cooling. The
turbulence caused by the lip creates a low pressure area at the outlet
that improves airflow.
On Dec 20, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote:
> Roger,
>
> You are right to a point but there is no better teacher than
> experience. I didn't want to sound harsh with my comment to Brady
> but after reading it again it was just that. I am working on ram air
> ducts for the 601 and 650 to fit our new cowling and while it looks
> like it should work in theory will it work in the air?
>
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
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