Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:20 AM - Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump (Gary Gower)
2. 04:01 AM - Re: Redundant Airspeed with EFIS Question (george may)
3. 07:25 AM - Re: Fuel lines (LarryMcFarland)
4. 07:59 AM - Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump (John Goodings)
5. 08:23 AM - Fw: Fuse Block (Bill Naumuk)
6. 08:47 AM - Re: Fuel lines (Bill Naumuk)
7. 09:01 AM - Re: Redundant Airspeed with EFIS Question (Gig Giacona)
8. 09:08 AM - Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" (George Race)
9. 11:34 AM - Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump (Brady)
10. 12:37 PM - Re: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump (Trainnut01@aol.com)
11. 12:37 PM - CH-650 for X-plane? (ndrkok)
12. 12:51 PM - Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump (Brady)
13. 03:18 PM - Fuel Lines (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net)
14. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
15. 07:28 PM - Holes in plastic cable guides (Don Mountain)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump |
I filter all my gasoline with a Chamois covered funnel,- is the first pie
ce of "luggage" in my plane in a XCountry :-).- Never had fueled direct f
rom the pump to the tank...- The only way to trust the Gascolator...
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
Flying from Chapala, Mexico.
Today a real clear and calm sky,- great afternoon, missed my camera!
--- On Sat, 12/27/08, Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net> wrote:
From: Terry Phillips <ttp44@rkymtn.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump
Larry
Thank you for the post. I am planning to put my pumps in the wing also, but
I
have built a more complicated installation based on a concept at ch601.org.
Simple is beautiful--I like your idea much better. Since I have plenty of t
ime,
I think that I will probably install my pumps at you have done. One thing
I'm undecided about--fuel filters. The instructions for the pumps recommend
a filter upstream from the pump. My EAA Tech Counselor doesn't believe in
filters that can plug up on the pump suction. I don't know what I will do.
Regarding the fuel lines, I personally doubt 4 years unused is an issue for
those lines, assuming the hoses have not been exposed to UV light (i.e.,
sunlight). I'm planning to use aluminum lines from the wings through the
firewall. I'm more comfortable with metal lines. We'll see if I have any
luck bending the aluminum tubing into 3-D shapes :-) I'm thinking I need to
order some more tubing to allow for mistakes.
Let us know how the wing mounted pumps work out for you.
Terry
At 04:10 PM 12/26/2008 -0800, you wrote:
> Hi All
>
> Last year when I was working on the wings. I made the decision to put a
fuel pump in the root of each wing. As I see it a pump is much better at pu
shing
than it is at suction.
>
> Anyway, I now have the fuselage on the gear!!! and I have brought the
wings back to the bench for finish work and closure of the top skin and top
leading edge.
>
> I'm concerned about the longevity of the fuel lines, on two fronts.
First this line came with the kit I picked up in Nov 2005. Is age a factor
here?? These lines wont see fuel for at least another 4 months.
>
> Second Question, Since ethanol is hard to avoid in MOGAS these days
I'd like to make sure that my fuel system is compatible. What about these
lines?? Is Ethanol / MOGAS a problem for this line?? As you can see from
the
attached picture I can inspect the lines through the access port but the on
ly
way to replace them is to open up the leading edge. So obviously if I need
to
make a change, now it the time.
>
> Comments Concerns Criticisms All welcome!!
>
> Larry Whitlow
> 601XL 85% done 61% to go
> N69102 (reserved) or N747LW (reserved) (I can't decide)
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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| Subject: | Redundant Airspeed with EFIS Question |
Burke--
I have redundant airspeeds=2C using dual Dynons=2C and ended up splitting
the pitot and static lines. Works fine
George May
601XL 912s
> Subject: Zenith-List: Redundant Airspeed with EFIS Question
> From: burkeandsusan@verizon.net
> Date: Sat=2C 27 Dec 2008 14:57:38 -0800
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I have seen many panels with EFIS airspeeds that include a backup steam a
irspeed as well for redundancy. I'm curious how this setup is plumbed. Do
you need two pitot tubes or can you somehow split the pitot pressure tube
to feed two instruments?
>
> Thanks
>
> Burke Johnson
> CH-750
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221408#221408
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad
1_122008
Message 3
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You're correct Bill, I've got braided line from the center section ends
to entry into the cockpit.
That only affords a slightly flexible disconnect should that ever be
necessary.
Larry McFarland
do not archive
Bill Naumuk wrote:
>
> Larry-
> I have a $1000 MA3-SPA rebuild, and I don't want to jeopardize the
> integrity.
> Bouncing back and forth between converting my antenna to HD-TV
> (Worked great- I get 15 channels for free- cost me $175 and killed the
> day for my son and me) and assembling a family photo montage for my
> aunt and uncle. I have to go to Wal Mart tomorrow to have some
> daguerreotypes turned digital so I can finish up. These of course are
> from my, my brother, and my cousins early years.
> I really want to get my uncle to sit down for an EAA "Living
> legends" session. My son has agreed to act as cameraman and I'll hit
> him up when I deliver the photo montage. He has a phenomenal and
> atypical story.
> If things go right, I'll actually get back to work on the project
> Monday.
> You have to agree, you can't get the wings on and off with hard
> tubing.
>
> Bill
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland"
> <larry@macsmachine.com>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel lines
>
>>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump |
It is, perhaps, salutory to register a different opinion. Personally, I
wouldn't DREAM of using metal fuel lines. In my research labs over many
years, we used a great deal of metal tubing with metal fittings (mainly
Swagelock, brass and stainless) for gas lines (hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen,
chlorine, etc.) to feed burners for combustion studies. It takes a while
before one has sufficient experience to be really good at these
installations. The metal fittings crimp tightly into the tubing to make a
work-hardened gas-tight seal; it is a localized stress point. These can
crack. Under vibration near an aircraft engine, they would be a constant
source of worry to my mind. Modern rubber fuel line (ethanol is not a
problem) is excellent. The rubber fuel lines in our 601HD are now over 5
years old. I keep inspecting them, but there is no sign of deterioration.
A local AME tells me they should be routinely replaced after 10 years as
is done on certified aircraft, even though they may not need it.
Incidentally, Dave, pure ethanol and gasoline won't have the slightest
effect on aluminum, nor will pure water. The effect of an ethanol/impure
water mixture is more difficult to guess, because it depends on the
impurities.
John Goodings, C-FGPJ CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa/Toronto.
Message 5
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Fuse Block
> Jake-
> On the TV front, man am I a happy camper- 15 channels, and I'm 45 miles
> from the nearest transmitter. My son is amazed and planning on doing the
> same thing at his house (He lives next door). $165 in components,
> including a new antenna because the old one literally crumbled in my
> hands, and 2-1/2 hrs work between the two of us. There's an extra sense of
> satisfaction knowing you beat the "Pay monthly till you die" conspiracy. A
> big part of my success was probably due to me taking my whiskey compass
> out to align the antenna. We were off probably 20 from where we thought
> the transmitters were located.
> Truth be told, I would have opted out for the satellite if it weren't
> for stumbling into a small appliance dealer with 60 years experience by
> accident. What sealed the deal was they assembled the BNC lead for my ELT
> for nothing. The ironic thing is the guy who did it said "I never saw
> anything that's going into an airplane". Just another working stiff who
> can barely pay the rent who made a contribution to my project. Washington
> and Wall St. are what are killing this country; the average working Joe
> sure isn't.
> My fuse blocks came in from Summit. I'll probably install them in the
> right side of the panel.
>
> Bill
do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jake Reyna" <jakereyna@yahoo.com>
> To: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@alltel.net>
> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Fuse Block
>
>
>> Bill, I think it would work best in the panel once it comes time to add
>> wires now and in the future.
>>
>> We made the decision to go with DTV in the Spring of 2006 when my wife
>> transferred to Mountain Home AFB south of Boise. In 2003 while visiting
>> my Mom in Texas I wandered into a Radio Shack and they were pulling in
>> DTV from San Antonio and Austin, at least 30 miles away. I was amazed at
>> the picture quality, but you needed a HDTV with the built in tuner. We
>> are 45 miles from the towers in Boise and I have to use a preamp to boost
>> the signal. The picture is great, it's as good as a DVD. We get the 5
>> networks and PBS sends out 4 excellent channels. Free is always good and
>> instead of having 100 channels with nothing to watch, we only have to
>> scan through 9.
>>
>> Stay off the roof!! If you want to get high, go flying :-)
>>
>> Jake
>>
>>
>> --- On Sat, 12/27/08, Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@alltel.net>
>>> Subject: Re: Fuse Block
>>> To: jakereyna@yahoo.com
>>> Date: Saturday, December 27, 2008, 9:09 AM
>>> Jake-
>>> Only 4 tries? It's a good thing my kick plates'
>>> going to be covered with carpet because it has a bizzillion
>>> holes in it.
>>> I can probably get by with mounting the blocks in the
>>> right side of the panel and painting them to match, or in
>>> the sides of the console.
>>> I had to take the day off from the project to totally
>>> reinstall my TV antenna to HDTV specs. Cable isn't
>>> offered in my area, and my son's satellite is nothing to
>>> brag about, plus he still has to pay extra for local
>>> channels. He asked me what I wanted for Christmas and I told
>>> him "Him up on the roof". I'm getting too old
>>> for aerial work on a ladder.
>>> Wiring the panel should be a piece of cake after today!
>>>
>>> Bill
Message 6
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Larry-
I was planning on using the Zenith supplied hose from my locker tanks to
spade fittings at the outboard/c-section juncture. Cockpit runs are hard
aluminum to the console Facet, Zenith rubber tubing to the top of the
header, then braided to the firewall-through fitting. The only possible weak
link is from the console Facet to the top of the header.
We are fortunate in this area in that fuel for the two largest gasoline
dealers is refined locally. I used to work right behind the refinery and can
easily find out if any ethanol is added. This should save testing every time
I fill up.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel lines
>
> You're correct Bill, I've got braided line from the center section ends to
> entry into the cockpit.
> That only affords a slightly flexible disconnect should that ever be
> necessary.
>
> Larry McFarland
> do not archive
>
> Bill Naumuk wrote:
>>
>> Larry-
>> I have a $1000 MA3-SPA rebuild, and I don't want to jeopardize the
>> integrity.
>> Bouncing back and forth between converting my antenna to HD-TV (Worked
>> great- I get 15 channels for free- cost me $175 and killed the day for my
>> son and me) and assembling a family photo montage for my aunt and uncle.
>> I have to go to Wal Mart tomorrow to have some daguerreotypes turned
>> digital so I can finish up. These of course are from my, my brother, and
>> my cousins early years.
>> I really want to get my uncle to sit down for an EAA "Living legends"
>> session. My son has agreed to act as cameraman and I'll hit him up when I
>> deliver the photo montage. He has a phenomenal and atypical story.
>> If things go right, I'll actually get back to work on the project
>> Monday.
>> You have to agree, you can't get the wings on and off with hard
>> tubing.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryMcFarland"
>> <larry@macsmachine.com>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:04 PM
>> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fuel lines
>>
>>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Redundant Airspeed with EFIS Question |
The Aircraft Spruce catalog has a drawing showing the plumbing needed to do this.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221483#221483
Message 8
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| Subject: | Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" |
Please join us for the Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM
Eastern Time.
<blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::blocked::http://www.mykitairpl
ane.com/chat/> http://www.mykitairplane.com/chat/
George
Do Not Archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump |
John,
Using aluminum fuel lines is standard practice in certified aircraft.
The metals you mentioned are known for work hardening and would be poor choices
for sure in a fuel system on an aircraft.
The Highest vibration frequency area would be the transition between the airframe
and the engine. This is why I elected to use a hose connection from the firewall
to the engine. This line should be well supported or tied to avoid movement
even still.
The aluminum tubing typically used for fuel lines is alloy 3003-0.
This tubing is specifically for fuel lines as well as oil lines and is commonly
used for air and instrument lines also.
It is common practice to secure these lines so vibration is limited and annealing
the tubing after bending and flaring is also recommended.
However, regardless of what your fuel system is made of Preventive maintenance
is called Preventive for a reason, and should be inspected often. It is always
better to find the issue before it is a problem.
Dave Austin,
I would think that any adverse affect to the aluminum in an aircraft fuel system
would be caused by galvanic corrosion rather than some chemical incompatibility
like what happens with the carburetor gaskets and diaphragms when exposed
to ethanol.
For those who are not familiar with galvanic corrosion; it is caused by dissimilar
metals that come in contact with an electrolyte of some sort.
The electrolyte could be as simple as water.
Galvanic action is how batteries work and how electroplating is done.
Sorry if that seemed obvious to most of you but maybe not everyone is familiar.
I once removed the fresh water tanks in a multimillion $ Yacht because of galvanic
corrosion. Someone had installed a brass fitting in the aluminum tank. A simple
oversight that ended in a severely expensive refit.
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221494#221494
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump |
John
Let me add a thought. This came up on the RV list several years ago and
someone offered the opinion that the metal lines are more likly to break in an
accident. Maybe?
Carroll
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
Message 11
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| Subject: | CH-650 for X-plane? |
Hello,
Just wondering if anyone out there has modeled a CH-650 in X-Plane?
I've been able to find a couple versions of the XL out there, but have not been
happy with how they "fly."
Thanks!
Andre
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221496#221496
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump |
Carroll,
Not a bad point.
Always very tough decisions.
No perfect solutions & always a compromise. :)
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221500#221500
Message 13
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all
i have Stainless Steel braided teflon lined fuel lines from the tanks to the wing
root with AN fittings just inside the cabin.. then aluminum all the way thru
the firewall. i too have the tank selector at the top of the center console.
i calibrated the gauges several times by temporarily hooking up a 12 v. Chevy
elec. fuel pump on the outside of the firewall. i pumped both tanks down to about
a quart of fuel every time and i was pumping way faster than the Aircraft
set up. it never missed a beat. you could tell immediately by the sound when
the pump started to cavitate. at that time the tank was empty except for the
quart or less that could be drained from the sump.
hope this helps.
bobby
N131BP
601 XL 71 hrs.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump |
That's why it's a bad idea to put the pumps in the wing next to the tanks 12
V next to the fuel tanks don't sound that great to me and in an accident it
would most likely break the wires and cause a spark.
On all the planes I have built the ONLY flexible lines on the whole aircraft
are the fuel line from the firewall to the carb. and the brake lines inside
the cabin.
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com)
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/)
_www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/)
John
Let me add a thought. This came up on the RV list several years ago and
someone offered the opinion that the metal lines are more likly to break in an
accident. Maybe?
Carroll
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Holes in plastic cable guides |
I am starting to run control cables in the fuselage of my 601XL.- What si
ze should I drill the holes in the plastic cable guides?- Should they be
as tight as I can get them?- Or is a little space better.- 5/32" is abo
ut as small as I can get the cables through.- Or should they be a little
larger like 3/16"?
Don Mountain
601 XL, finishing fuselage
=0A=0A=0A
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