Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:34 AM - Yahoo! Auto Response (wfwilson1@yahoo.ca)
2. 02:33 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
3. 02:44 AM - drip trays (vann covington)
4. 09:48 AM - pro-seal fuel tanks questions (leinad)
5. 10:33 AM - Re: Re: Engine Cooling (Ken Lilja)
6. 01:22 PM - drip trays (Dan Wilde)
7. 01:42 PM - Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump (Tim Juhl)
8. 02:14 PM - Re: pro-seal fuel tanks questions (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
9. 02:47 PM - Fw: Last 229 Newsletter (Dick)
10. 03:16 PM - Re: drip trays (Craig Payne)
11. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump (Roger & Lina Hill)
12. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
13. 09:35 PM - Re: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump (Roger & Lina Hill)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Yahoo! Auto Response |
I will have limited access to my mail until Apr 19/09. So there might be slow response.
Regards
Wayne
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump |
Tim
When you run aluminum lines for the brakes you add a loop to absorb the
vibration. All the brake lines I have installed on the 601 have been aluminum
and
have had no problems. And before a flame gets started I'm not saying there
is anything wrong with the lines Zenith supplies I just prefer aluminum.
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/)
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/)
www.aerolite.camstreams.com
do not archive
Oops! I forgot to mention that I had a aluminum brake line fail once. It
broke when I tried to reposition it slightly. The line broke near the top of
the landing gear where it was exposed to flexing during every flight. A poor
design in my view. I would never use a aluminum line where it would be
exposed to any movement.
Tim
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Thanks for the advice on the drip trays.- I checked with CPS 2008 cat. an
d-rotax wanted $149.00 for a set of two, but when I ordered them they wer
e now $250.00 for two in the 2009 cat!- After regaining my composer I ask
ed CPS what their cost was.- CPS said their cost was $200.00.- Could no
t justify spending that.
- I noticed on CT's site, they had some on their 912's.- I called and o
rdered theirs for $21.00 ea.- Slightly different design, same principle.
- Not bad.- Vann=0A=0A=0A
Message 4
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| Subject: | pro-seal fuel tanks questions |
I have some tooling holes in my fuel tank parts that I was intending to fill with
solid AN-6 rivets. Will these self seal, or should i smear pro-seal around
them. If so, should they be smeared with the goo before or after setting them.
Of course it would be a lot less messy if I smear the stuff around the shop
head after setting them.
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221803#221803
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Cooling |
Better than ram air is a defuser. If you look at modern versions of
older designs the cooling air inlet area is now about 30% of what they
were. The air path forms a divergent duct. By Bernoulli's principle
the air slows down and pressure goes up. Manufactures look for a
pressure drop from top to the bottom of the engine. One plane I have
worked on needed a 6" of water pressure difference. Some aircraft
use an augmenter exhaust to lower the pressure in the lower cowl. This
uses the exhaust flow to create a venturi effect. The images are of a
Diamond DA-40 with a 180HP Lycoming. The air inlets are about 6" in
diameter. They feed into a plenum defuser. Air must be prevented from
getting past the baffle seals. Also air will try to leak around the
propshaft.
Teaching turbine engines at the moment,
Ken Lilja
Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote:
> Brady
>
> With all due respect, how many aircraft have you built? You are
> starting to be the WW of the Zenith list. I think you are a smart guy
> and like what you are trying to do but wouldn't it be better to have
> built at least 1 airplane before you hand out answers to others
> problems? Having worked on a Jab that overheats it is a pain in the
> ass engine when it comes to cooling. Jab will tell you they don't have
> a problem but I have seen too many posts about overheating to believe
> that.
>
> BTW if the intake is small where is it going to "Suck" the air from?
> The Jab uses small deflectors inside the baffles and if they are too
> big or small the rear cylinder will overheat.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
> Bobby,
>
> Be sure not to over look the exit.
> All the intake in the world won't do you any good if it has nowhere to go.
> Try to "suck" the cooling through.
>
> I have seen studies that say the intake is far less important than the
> exhaust side of the cooling system.
>
> Also be sure you oil cooler is getting fresh air.
> the oil cooler is at least as important because it is an integral part
> of the whole cooling picture.
>
> Just food for thought.
> Good luck.
Message 6
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Vann: What company is CT? At that only $21, I would like to buy a couple.
Dan Wilde
I noticed on CT's site, they had some on their 912's. I called and
ordered theirs for $21.00 ea. Slightly different design, same
principle. Not bad. Vann
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Lines and Fuel Pump |
Jeff,
The broken brake line in question was on the 1975 C182 I used to own. There was
no loop as you describe.
I added hydraulic brakes to my Aeronca Champ and used aluminum lines everywhere
except from the bottom of the gear leg to the brake cylinder and where the brake
lines came off the parking brake valve to the top of the axle struts. Those
two areas are exposed to the wind and subject to a lot of flex.
I also prefer the aluminum lines but as of now am planning to go with the nylon
lines that came with the kit. We'll see what happens :-)
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221831#221831
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: pro-seal fuel tanks questions |
No they will not self seal. You need to put pro seal on the rivet before you
buck it and then around the head after it is set.
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/)
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/)
www.aerolite.camstreams.com
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Fw: Last 229 Newsletter |
Earle,
Please delete both Jim Campbells address and email address. He's moved.
Thanks, Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: Nonnienat@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Last 229 Newsletter
Please take my name off of the list of people that you send the air port
information to. I gave it to Jim Campbell and no longer see him after
his move. Thank you.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Don't be the last to know - click here for the latest news that will
have people talking.
Message 10
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Maybe Flight Design? Maker/dealer of the CTsw and CTLS Rotax-powered
aircraft?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Wilde
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 2:21 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: drip trays
Vann: What company is CT? At that only $21, I would like to buy a couple.
Dan Wilde
I noticed on CT's site, they had some on their 912's. I called and
ordered theirs for $21.00 ea. Slightly different design, same
principle. Not bad. Vann
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump |
Jeff;
I don't think it's possible to create a spark with enough energy to ignite
fuel with less than 28 volts DC, let along 12 volts. 24 VDC is referred to
as intrinsically safe in the instrumentation industry, they use 24VDC
instruments in grain elevators which are know to blowup, so I don't see that
anyone should worry about running 12 VDC in their wing and possibly causing
a fire in a landing accident.
Roger
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump
That's why it's a bad idea to put the pumps in the wing next to the tanks 12
V next to the fuel tanks don't sound that great to me and in an accident it
would most likely break the wires and cause a spark.
On all the planes I have built the ONLY flexible lines on the whole aircraft
are the fuel line from the firewall to the carb. and the brake lines inside
the cabin.
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
www.aeroliteproducts.com
www.project601xl.com <http://www.project601xl.com/>
www.aerolite.camstreams.com <http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/>
John
Let me add a thought. This came up on the RV list several years ago and
someone offered the opinion that the metal lines are more likly to break in
an accident. Maybe?
Carroll
_____
One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump |
Roger
I respect your opinion but must strongly disagree, Gas fumes will ignite
with the slightest spark otherwise the biggest risk from a survivable crash
wouldn't be fire.
Jeff
Jeff;
I don=99t think it=99s possible to create a spark with enough e
nergy to ignite
fuel with less than 28 volts DC, let along 12 volts. 24 VDC is referred to
as
intrinsically safe in the instrumentation industry, they use 24VDC
instruments in grain elevators which are know to blowup, so I don=99t
see that anyone
should worry about running 12 VDC in their wing and possibly causing a fire
in
a landing accident.
Roger
____________________________________
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol.
com
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump
That's why it's a bad idea to put the pumps in the wing next to the tanks 1
2
V next to the fuel tanks don't sound that great to me and in an accident it
would most likely break the wires and cause a spark.
On all the planes I have built the ONLY flexible lines on the whole aircraf
t
are the fuel line from the firewall to the carb. and the brake lines inside
the cabin.
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/)
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/)
_www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/)
John
Let me add a thought. This came up on the RV list several years ago and
someone offered the opinion that the metal lines are more likly to break in
an
accident. Maybe?
Carroll
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
m00000025)
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump |
Jeff;
Fuel is typically ignited, after a crash from a small plane, because it
drips on the hot exhaust pipes, which are about 1000 degrees near the
engine.
Electrical power from a 12 volt aircraft system is protected by a fuse, for
wing tanks pumps, it is typically 5 amps. If the fuel pump hot wire was to
ground, a tiny and cool spark would result, and be gone in about 50 msec as
the fuse blows from the overload (assuming you have installed the correct
fuses for your pump). It's a bit complicated, but basically the number of
electrons that can jump through the air with 12 Volts source applied simply
don't have enough energy (I.E. heat) associated with them to ignite
gasoline. When you see hot sparks from a 12 volts source being grounded,
your actually seeing the conductive material melting and becoming
incandescent because the current is applied for to long. The job of your
aircraft fusing is to prevent the flow of electricity from becoming so great
so as to heat the conductive material to this degree, I.E, the fuse will
blow first before over heating of the conductive metal occurs and creates
sparks hot enough to ignite fuel. However, an unfused direct link from the
battery has enough amps to heat metal to such a degree that it would ignite
fuel vapor. Even then, the grounding of the battery would still need to be
continues enough to heat contact metals to the combustion temperature of
gasoline vapor (But of course you properly fuse all of your wires going to
the wings, don't you?)
Clear as mud?
Hope this helps
Roger
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump
Roger
I respect your opinion but must strongly disagree, Gas fumes will ignite
with the slightest spark otherwise the biggest risk from a survivable crash
wouldn't be fire.
Jeff
Jeff;
I don't think it's possible to create a spark with enough energy to ignite
fuel with less than 28 volts DC, let along 12 volts. 24 VDC is referred to
as intrinsically safe in the instrumentation industry, they use 24VDC
instruments in grain elevators which are know to blowup, so I don't see that
anyone should worry about running 12 VDC in their wing and possibly causing
a fire in a landing accident.
Roger
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Fuel lines and fuel pump
That's why it's a bad idea to put the pumps in the wing next to the tanks 12
V next to the fuel tanks don't sound that great to me and in an accident it
would most likely break the wires and cause a spark.
On all the planes I have built the ONLY flexible lines on the whole aircraft
are the fuel line from the firewall to the carb. and the brake lines inside
the cabin.
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
www.aeroliteproducts.com <http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/>
www.project601xl.com <http://www.project601xl.com/>
www.aerolite.camstreams.com <http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/>
John
Let me add a thought. This came up on the RV list several years ago and
someone offered the opinion that the metal lines are more likly to break in
an accident. Maybe?
Carroll
_____
One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo
Mail. Try
025> it now.
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