---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/01/09: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:21 AM - Re: Radio Tray (jaybannist@cs.com) 2. 06:33 AM - Re: Radio Tray (Bill Naumuk) 3. 06:39 AM - Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (nosky2high) 4. 07:20 AM - Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (nosky2high) 5. 07:31 AM - Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (nosky2high) 6. 08:19 AM - Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (nosky2high) 7. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Engine Cooling (Dirk Zahtilla) 8. 11:00 AM - Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (Sabrina) 9. 11:03 AM - Re: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (Terry Phillips) 10. 11:15 AM - Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (nosky2high) 11. 11:28 AM - Re: Re: Engine Cooling (Bryan Martin) 12. 11:30 AM - Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (Sabrina) 13. 11:48 AM - Re: Re: Engine Cooling (Paul Mulwitz) 14. 11:58 AM - Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (nosky2high) 15. 01:39 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (Juan Vega) 16. 04:16 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (A.F.RUPP@att.net) 17. 05:20 PM - Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (Sabrina) 18. 09:02 PM - Canopy Latch (burbby) 19. 11:11 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 20. 11:17 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Radio Tray From: jaybannist@cs.com Yep, I missed it when looking for it yesterday.=C2- I must have seen it w hen I was building, though.=C2- And, yes, it is .025". Jay in Dallas Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Craig Payne Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 11:08 pm Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Radio Tray The wide channel from the bottom of the instrument panel to the firewall is 6K2-1 in the *fuel system* section. It is made of 0.025 =9D =C2- -- Craig =C2- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist@cs.c om Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Radio Tray =C2- Bill, I don't know what you are calling a "radio tray".=C2- If you are referring to the wide channel that goes from the bottom center of the panel to the firewall, that part does not show anywhere on my drawings. I don't even remember how I figured out where it was supposed to go. I think it is .025" but I don't know for sure.=C2- As I recall I had to make a special connector to fasten it to the channel on the firewall (see photos). Jay in Dallas Do not archive =C2- -----Original Message----- From: Bill Naumuk Sent: Wed, 3120Dec 2008 7:50 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Radio Tray All- =C2-=C2-=C2- What gauge is the radio tray made out of, .025 or .032? I figured .040 for t he radio side mounts. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS 601MG/Corvair 95% Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com y Browse, Chat, FAQ, ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:52 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Radio Tray Craig- I guessed right at .025, guessed being the operant word. Thanks. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Craig Payne To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:08 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Radio Tray The wide channel from the bottom of the instrument panel to the firewall is 6K2-1 in the *fuel system* section. It is made of 0.025" -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist@cs.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:25 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Radio Tray Bill, I don't know what you are calling a "radio tray". If you are referring to the wide channel that goes from the bottom center of the panel to the firewall, that part does not show anywhere on my drawings. I don't even remember how I figured out where it was supposed to go. I think it is .025" but I don't know for sure. As I recall I had to make a special connector to fasten it to the channel on the firewall (see photos). Jay in Dallas Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Bill Naumuk To: zenith list Sent: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 7:50 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Radio Tray All- What gauge is the radio tray made out of, .025 or .032? I figured .040 for the radio side mounts. Bill Naumuk Townville, Pa. HDS 601MG/Corvair 95% ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions From: "nosky2high" Happy New Year Everyone, Has anyone out there installed the aileron gussets (on the two outboard most ribs)into the 650 ailerons? The assembly guide doesn't show them yet they are only on the plans. Any guidance or advice on the best method of assembly would be appreciated. Thanks Anthony Ft Bragg, NC -------- Anthony Hanson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222172#222172 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:46 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions From: "nosky2high" my error to previous post, gussets go on two inboard ribs -------- Anthony Hanson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222178#222178 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:23 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions From: "nosky2high" Ok, Here's what looks like the best solution, the triangle shaped gusset goes under the inboard most rib flange as well as under the the aileron spar flange, the second gusset goes under the Aileron spar flange centered on top of the second rib. I'm lost without some destructions, i mean instructions Any thoughts? Thanks in Advance. Anthony [Question] -------- Anthony Hanson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222180#222180 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:27 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions From: "nosky2high" here's some gusset pics for reference, note that the inboard triangle gusset's long edge is oriented along the top of the inboard rib flange. -------- Anthony Hanson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222185#222185 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3261_312.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_3260_178.jpg ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:54 AM PST US From: "Dirk Zahtilla" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Engine Cooling Would you please explain what a defuser consists of and what you mean by a divergent duct. I am interested in learning more on this topic. If you would rather email me direct to avoid having your body parts chewed off by those on the list who insist on being righter than anyone else, please do. Thanks, Dirk Zahtilla ideaz1@sbcglobal.net Interem Airport Manager, CXP Carson City, Nv. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:00:22 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions From: "Sabrina" Anthony, >From your photos it looks like you have flex hinge ailerons not piano hinge ailerons, is this true? Attached is the Zenith drawing for the installation of the gussets. Does it match your drawings? I would contact Zenith before installing the gussets on a flex hinge. It was the piano hinge aileron design that was having the problems talked about in the paragraph above the drawings but the drawing shows a flex hinge installation. This could be a defensive move by Zenith. They can always point to the bulletin and say "See the drawing" this is what we recommended to be installed on all 601XL, and the service bulletin shows flex hinged ailerons. I don't know. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222208#222208 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/zenith_649.pdf ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:10 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions Anthony Thank you for the photos. It's good to see what the gussets look like. I would like to suggest that you use the free image resizer from Microsoft on photos that you upload to Matronics or attach to your posts: http://download.microsoft.com/download/whistler/Install/2/WXP/EN-US/ImageResizerPowertoySetup.exe The large size will reduce the files size by about an 10x, with very little degradation of image quality. It makes it easier for those of us in the hinterlands with slow Internet links to download the photos. Terry do not archive At 08:18 AM 1/1/2009 -0800, you wrote: >here's some gusset pics for reference, note that the inboard triangle >gusset's long edge is oriented along the top of the inboard rib flange. > >-------- >Anthony Hanson Terry Phillips ZBAGer ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; working on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:51 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions From: "nosky2high" All, Excuse the file size of the photos, will adjust in the future. My 650 is equipped with the hinge-less ailerons and my current opinion is to follow the drawings guidance and that they are a good precaution regardless of hinge type. I just finished assembly of the right aileron, starting on the left after this post. Regards, Anthony PS: Reminder I'm building from 650 component kits, tail 95%, flaps done, ailerons in progress, corvair engine test ran complete. -------- Anthony Hanson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222213#222213 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:28:06 AM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Engine Cooling A definition From the web: "A diffuser is a passage so shaped (usually in the form of a divergent duct) that it will change the characteristics of a fluid flow from a certain pressure and velocity at the inlet to a lower velocity and higher pressure at the outlet. Generally, the diffusion must be carried out in a well-streamlined passage having smooth interior surfaces, and sides not diverging at so great an angle as to cause the fluid to leave the sides of the diffuser. By reducing the velocity through increasing the cross- sectional area of flow, the pressure may be built up as the velocity head is diminished. Diffusers are used to conserve energy by efficiently converting velocity head into pressure." A divergent duct is simply a duct whose cross sectional area increases in the down stream direction. Because slower moving air remains in contact with the cooling fins for a longer period of time, it can soak up more heat from the engine to carry away. You still have to make sure the cooling exit duct is larger than the inlet duct and is located in a area of lower pressure. On Jan 1, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Dirk Zahtilla wrote: > Would you please explain what a defuser consists of and what you > mean by a divergent duct. I am interested in learning more on this > topic. > If you would rather email me direct to avoid having your body parts > chewed off by those on the list who insist on being righter than > anyone else, please do. > > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:48 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions From: "Sabrina" The problem is that your flex hinge was tested extensively by CH without the gussets. http://zenithair.com/images/kit-data/ht-aileron.html The gussets will create ripples/stress points along the attach line between the flex hinge portion of the aileron skin and the spar portion of the aileron skin. The .016 skin will be raised by .025 and then settle back down. The key to a flex hinge is the smoothness of the hinge. I would contact Zenith and ask them if the flex hinge aileron with gusset drawing is correct and/or tested. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222216#222216 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:42 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Engine Cooling Hi Dirk, There is a really great magazine article describing this new technology. Title: Cooling Drag. Page 106. EAA Sport Aviation. December 2007. Author Christopher Zavatson. I strongly recommend this article. I have read it a few times and keep it handy for reference. Good luck, Paul XL getting close At 10:45 AM 1/1/2009, you wrote: >Would you please explain what a defuser consists of and what you >mean by a divergent duct. I am interested in learning more on this topic. >If you would rather email me direct to avoid having your body parts >chewed off by those on the list who insist on being righter than >anyone else, please do. > >Thanks, >Dirk Zahtilla ideaz1@sbcglobal.net >Interem Airport Manager, CXP >Carson City, Nv. > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:47 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions From: "nosky2high" Sabrina, Good call, and the most conservative approach. Your logic is sound. Will hold off on the rivets until confirmation with ZAC. I'm getting high on self etching primer anyway:-) You veteran builders out there, thanks in advance, this new guy is a pilot only(Prior Piper Cherokee owner, and currently Army Kiowa Warrior Pilot) and am still learning the engineering know-how that so many of you exhibit. I'm a follow the plans/instructions, getter done kind of guy. Appreciate this gotcha advice and the future guidance to come. Anthony -------- Anthony Hanson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222228#222228 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:09 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions All; the control locks in the picture are mine, and they work well. As for the Gussett, just put them under the hingless sheet metal on all of the aileron rib points, should be fine. You really dont need them if the plane is kept well. I did not have issues with my aileron eccept it was hit last night by a 9mm bullet. go figure! right in the corner and went through the wing entirely. I spoke to the Airport guys and they said mine was not the only one and last year on new years, a cheetah was shot while landing. Welcome to the Jungle. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Sabrina >Sent: Jan 1, 2009 1:57 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions > > >Anthony, > >>From your photos it looks like you have flex hinge ailerons not piano hinge ailerons, is this true? > >Attached is the Zenith drawing for the installation of the gussets. Does it match your drawings? > >I would contact Zenith before installing the gussets on a flex hinge. It was the piano hinge aileron design that was having the problems talked about in the paragraph above the drawings but the drawing shows a flex hinge installation. > >This could be a defensive move by Zenith. They can always point to the bulletin and say "See the drawing" this is what we recommended to be installed on all 601XL, and the service bulletin shows flex hinged ailerons. I don't know. > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222208#222208 > > >Attachments: > >http://forums.matronics.com//files/zenith_649.pdf > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:54 PM PST US From: A.F.RUPP@att.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions Sabrina and Nathan, Nathan if you do as your picture shows with the gusset under the "spar cap" and on top of the rib flange stress points are a non-issue. The CH drawing shows a flex skin aileron and the advice is to install on the 601. I think it is a worthwhile addition. I installed them on the external skin on my 601. As far as the control cables go I believe the KR has pulleys not fairleads. That makes cable tension easier to set and in straight lines. There is no way an aircraft should go through an annual without a dtailed inspection of the control cables including a tension check, binding, jumping a pulley, fraying and etc. I don't know of an A&P who would skip that. Al Rupp An A&P for many years. 601XL -------------- Original message from "Sabrina" : -------------- > The problem is that your flex hinge was tested extensively by CH without the gussets. > The gussets will create ripples/stress points along the attach line between the flex hinge portion of the aileron skin and the spar portion of the aileron skin. The .016 skin will be raised by .025 and then settle back down. The key to a flex hinge is the smoothness of the hinge. I would contact Zenith and ask them if the flex hinge aileron with gusset drawing is correct and/or tested. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions From: "Sabrina" Maybe joggle the ribs to give room for the .025 gusset? Check with Zenith... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222273#222273 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:33 PM PST US From: burbby Subject: Zenith-List: Canopy Latch It is my understanding that the canopy latch system has been changed.-- I have been looking for the DWG that will reflect this new latching system with no success.--- Does anyone have a DWG number or a DWG that I ma y see in order to checkout what parts I need to change mine to the newer st yle latch. - Thanks Gary Bassham Zodiac CH601XL (N7601) reserved S/N-- 6-6203 Millsap, TX=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:08 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) Dear Listers, Please read over the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. 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Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Zenith-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Zenith-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Zenith-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Zenith-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Zenith-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Zenith-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Zenith-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:51 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Zenith-List: Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines Dear Listers, Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Zenith-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Zenith-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.