Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:15 AM - Re: Canopy Latch (Darryl Legg)
2. 10:36 AM - XL V-speeds (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
3. 11:56 AM - Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (Dave VanLanen)
4. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions ()
5. 12:33 PM - Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (Sabrina)
6. 12:47 PM - Re: XL V-speeds (Juan Vega)
7. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Canopy Latch (Tim Shankland)
8. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (Jon Croke)
9. 03:16 PM - 601xl (Darrell Haas)
10. 04:25 PM - Re: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (Ronald Steele)
11. 06:44 PM - Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions (Sabrina)
12. 06:46 PM - Re: Re: Canopy Latch (burbby)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Latch |
Hi Gary,
Attached are plans sent to me from Zenith, hope these help.
Darryl.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222332#222332
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/650_canopy_latch_for_xl_125.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/650_canopy_latch_193.pdf
Message 2
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Gang:
I have completed some testing on my 190 (3.1L) Corvair-powered XL
taildragger and have some V-speed numbers to report. These were taken
with the wheel pants on, but no intersection fairings. Tests were done
around 4000' DA, at a weight near to 1120#. My plane has an empty
weight of ~790#.
It seems that the large, relatively thick wing gives very tightly
grouped V-speeds more like a Cub than an RV. Note that the deck angles
for V_x and V_y are quite high (> 20=B0) and uncomfortable to maintain.
I tend to use 90-100 MIAS for normal operations climbs, which still
gives plenty of climb rate. Note that response curves are also very
tight, and the performance falls off very rapidly, even just a few MPH
from these speeds, so airspeed control would be *very* important in an
engine-out situation.
Also note that control authority, and therefore also trim response, is
very dependent on power setting at all airspeeds. It is not possible in
my plane to trim off the elevator at low glide speeds with the power
off, but the stick loads are light. It is possible to trim off the low
climb speeds. Anyway here you are:
V_md (minimum descent rate) = 68 MIAS
V_bg (best glide ratio) = 70 MIAS
V_x (best climb angle) = 72 MIAS
V_y (best climb rate) = 74 MIAS
FWIW,
Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
N601GE,601XL/TD,Corvair
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions |
Did I miss something? Is there some sort of bulletin recommending this
change for the 601XL? I looked on the Zenith website and could not find
anything, and I have the latest set of 601XL plans which do not show these
gussets.
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Time: 11:00:22 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris@msn.com>
Anthony,
>From your photos it looks like you have flex hinge ailerons not piano hinge
ailerons,
is this true?
Attached is the Zenith drawing for the installation of the gussets. Does
it match
your drawings?
I would contact Zenith before installing the gussets on a flex hinge. It
was the
piano hinge aileron design that was having the problems talked about in the
paragraph above the drawings but the drawing shows a flex hinge
installation.
This could be a defensive move by Zenith. They can always point to the
bulletin
and say "See the drawing" this is what we recommended to be installed on all
601XL, and the service bulletin shows flex hinged ailerons. I don't know.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions |
These changes are on the 650 plans. People are talking about back
fitting to the 601. Same wing, just a couple of different details.
Ron
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions
From: "Dave VanLanen" <davevanlanen@sbcglobal.net>
Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions Did I miss something? Is
there some sort of bulletin recommending this change for the 601XL? I
looked on the Zenith website and could not find anything, and I have the
latest set of 601XL plans which do not show these gussets.
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Time: 11:00:22 AM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions
From: "Sabrina" <chicago2paris@msn.com>
Anthony,
>From your photos it looks like you have flex hinge ailerons not piano
hinge ailerons,
is this true?
Attached is the Zenith drawing for the installation of the gussets.
Does it match
your drawings?
I would contact Zenith before installing the gussets on a flex hinge.
It was the
piano hinge aileron design that was having the problems talked about in
the
paragraph above the drawings but the drawing shows a flex hinge
installation.
This could be a defensive move by Zenith. They can always point to the
bulletin
and say "See the drawing" this is what we recommended to be installed
on all
601XL, and the service bulletin shows flex hinged ailerons. I don't
know.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions |
Ron,
Do the 650 plans show the gussets on both the PH and flex hinge ailerons?
Could you post the PH aileron gusset drawing?
Did Zenith push any particular aileron type when you purchased your kit/plans?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222425#222425
Message 6
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Dr. Elliott
If in power off the plane should trim at best glide automatically at 70 mph. most
planes will as mine does. IN an emergency you should be able to trim all the
trimm to full up, and focus on correcting the problem. Are you saying yours
does not trim to Vx or Vb? (should be the same)
I have on mine with 750 lb empty weight, Vx 52 mph, Vy 71 mph. Vy equals Best
glide. 71 mph.
stall no flap is 48. Best glide should be 1.30x Vx or 52x1.30= 68 mph.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott@cox.net>
>Sent: Jan 2, 2009 1:32 PM
>To: Zenith-List Digest Server <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: XL V-speeds
>
>Gang:
>
>I have completed some testing on my 190 (3.1L) Corvair-powered XL taildragger
and have some V-speed numbers to report. These were taken with the wheel pants
on, but no intersection fairings. Tests were done around 4000' DA, at a weight
near to 1120#. My plane has an empty weight of ~790#.
>
>It seems that the large, relatively thick wing gives very tightly grouped V-speeds
more like a Cub than an RV. Note that the deck angles for V_x and V_y are
quite high (> 20) and uncomfortable to maintain. I tend to use 90-100 MIAS
for normal operations climbs, which still gives plenty of climb rate. Note that
response curves are also very tight, and the performance falls off very rapidly,
even just a few MPH from these speeds, so airspeed control would be *very*
important in an engine-out situation.
>
>Also note that control authority, and therefore also trim response, is very dependent
on power setting at all airspeeds. It is not possible in my plane to
trim off the elevator at low glide speeds with the power off, but the stick loads
are light. It is possible to trim off the low climb speeds. Anyway here
you are:
>
>V_md (minimum descent rate) = 68 MIAS
>V_bg (best glide ratio) = 70 MIAS
>
>V_x (best climb angle) = 72 MIAS
>V_y (best climb rate) = 74 MIAS
>
>FWIW,
>Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ
>N601GE,601XL/TD,Corvair
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Latch |
I have my 601HD built and flying for the past two years, but I was
interested in the new latching system. I made an XL type latch for my
plane and have had excellent results with it. During the test phase
before I determined the best way to guarantee latching twice I had the
passenger side pop to the first latched position on one occasion I was
able to reach over and pull the latch down on the other I just landed (
it came loose on takeoff) to secure it. I have some concerns with the
new design. as I interpret it the two latches a fastened rigidly
together so that it one latch is pushed back the other will follow. With
this setup if one side comes loose and you attempt to latch it it will
release the other side, not a good situation. I think a simple
modification would fix this. Part 65C5-4 on each side should have one
end slotted and there should be two springs one on each latch.. In this
way the center lever will open both latches one one latch cannot force
the other open. This is just my observation in that I have no intention
changing my working system although I like not having the cable
assemblies in the canopy.
Tim Shankland
601HD N706TS
Darryl Legg wrote:
>
>Hi Gary,
>Attached are plans sent to me from Zenith, hope these help.
>Darryl.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222332#222332
>
>
>Attachments:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/650_canopy_latch_for_xl_125.pdf
>http://forums.matronics.com//files/650_canopy_latch_193.pdf
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions |
Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset QuestionsDave,
The "bulletins" are published for download at www.zenair.org
Also, they will be included in the next issue of the zenair newsletter
(hardcopy being mailed in 2 weeks) along with some great DVD videos of
more builders/pilots! Everybody: keep em coming! We all love to watch!
Jon
editor
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave VanLanen
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 1:55 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions
Did I miss something? Is there some sort of bulletin recommending
this change for the 601XL? I looked on the Zenith website and could not
find anything, and I have the latest set of 601XL plans which do not
show these gussets.
Thanks,
Dave Van Lanen
Message 9
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|
The weather out west here has given a lot of builder time however, I
unfortunately, need to postpone my building days and put my kit components
for sale.
Here is the list of things that I have:
Zenith Price My price
Fuselage kit
-
$4725.00 3550.00
Dual stick control option kit
-
$485.00 360.00
Tail
kit $1495.00
minus $375 for rudder 840.00
Control
kit
$925.00 695.00
Zenith charged for Crating and handling
$345.00 Free
Drawings and Manual + Cd's
395.00 290.00
Metalworking with rudder workshop DVD
49.00 Free ________
Building your Zenith Fuselage Part 1 and 2 DVD
49.00 Free
total $8,468.00 Total 5735.00
This price does not consider Zenith's handling and crating cost. Buyer will
need to be responsible for shipping but I will crate up and deliver to your
shipper for free.I would prefer to sell it all as one package and not split
up the kits.
Thank you,
Darrell Haas
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions |
The 650 plans are more-or-less like the 601 plans. The drawings show
the hingeless version, with the hinged in the back on an "options" page.
Gussets are shown on both pages. The hingeless are attached to the
rear spar with A5/pitch 40 with A5/pitch 20 at the inboard end.
I'd have to scan the drawings to post an image. Since Jon is going to
include them in the news letter, hopefully folks can wait.
My ailerons have have been build for months. I don't think I'll be
drilling out the rivets to add the gussets. Also, someone mentioned a
concern about the thickness of the gusset offsetting the skin (true
enough) but this is not addressed in the drawings, so presumably it's
not considered a problem.
Ron
On Jan 2, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Sabrina wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> Do the 650 plans show the gussets on both the PH and flex hinge
> ailerons?
>
> Could you post the PH aileron gusset drawing?
>
> Did Zenith push any particular aileron type when you purchased your
> kit/plans?
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222425#222425
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Rib Gusset Questions |
Ron,
Zenith has not issued a bulletin showing the PH aileron gussets, just the flex
hinge, so there is nothing more for Jon to post at this time. If you have time,
please scan the particular PH drawing with the gussets attached, no need for
all the other drawings on the plans page.
Do you have PH or flex hinge ailerons?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222480#222480
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Latch |
Thanks Darryl for the information.-
-
Gary Bassham
--- On Fri, 1/2/09, Darryl Legg <dlegg@tpg.com.au> wrote:
From: Darryl Legg <dlegg@tpg.com.au>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Canopy Latch
<dlegg@tpg.com.au>
Hi Gary,
Attached are plans sent to me from Zenith, hope these help.
Darryl.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222332#222332
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/650_canopy_latch_for_xl_125.pdf
http://forums.matronics.com//files/650_canopy_latch_193.pdf
=0A=0A=0A
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