Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:30 AM - Re: How good is your eyeball? (sdthatcher)
2. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: unrolling the canopy (Lawrence Webber)
3. 09:22 AM - Cell phones and flying (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
4. 09:42 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Frank Roskind)
5. 09:58 AM - Re: William Wynne Parts for sale (lgingell)
6. 10:07 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
7. 10:24 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (japhillipsga@aol.com)
8. 10:27 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Frank Roskind)
9. 10:40 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Jay Maynard)
10. 10:41 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
11. 10:41 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Jay Maynard)
12. 10:49 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Jay Maynard)
13. 10:53 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (jaybannist@cs.com)
14. 11:04 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Jeyoung65@aol.com)
15. 11:13 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (jaybannist@cs.com)
16. 11:14 AM - Corvair College # 13 (Brady)
17. 11:58 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Dave Covert)
18. 12:42 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Paul Mulwitz)
19. 12:47 PM - Re: CH-650 for X-plane? (Rhino)
20. 02:06 PM - TEST (dingfelder)
21. 02:08 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (rans6andrew)
22. 02:28 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (n801bh@netzero.com)
23. 02:43 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Craig Payne)
24. 02:51 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Gig Giacona)
25. 03:38 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Roger & Lina Hill)
26. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: unrolling the canopy (Roger & Lina Hill)
27. 05:47 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Ronald Steele)
28. 06:18 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Peter Chapman)
29. 06:50 PM - Re: unrolling the canopy (chris Sinfield)
30. 07:19 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Paul Mulwitz)
31. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: unrolling the canopy (Roger & Lina Hill)
32. 07:38 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Ronald Steele)
33. 07:49 PM - Re: unrolling the canopy (Thruster87)
34. 08:09 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Paul Mulwitz)
35. 08:18 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (JohnDRead@aol.com)
36. 08:26 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Jay Maynard)
37. 08:34 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (steve)
38. 09:19 PM - Re: unrolling the canopy (chris Sinfield)
39. 09:23 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Leo Gates)
40. 10:18 PM - Re: Internet and flying (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: How good is your eyeball? |
OK, so what if I got 13 on my first try and 8 on my second. Who cares... I go
by the plans anyway! :-) Oh yea, my monitor was one of those old Viewsonic brands
that needed to be held up with an old nosewheel tire and the vertical and
horizontal adjustments have been broke for a long time... What do I win?
Great fun Terry!
Do Not Archive
--------
Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
N601EL, EAA203 25 hours and climbing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223110#223110
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: unrolling the canopy |
Hey Roger its not gooday its GDAY mates ahhruuu!
Larry
> From: hills@sunflower.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy
> Date: Mon=2C 5 Jan 2009 19:45:29 -0600
>
om>
>
>
> I guess that just shows ya how good Zeniths are=2C if your willing to pay
> shipping all the way to Australia to get parts... me=2C I live about 3 ho
urs
> from the Zenith factory in Mexico=2C Missouri =2C=2C=2Cya I know=2C green
with
> jealousy you must all be right now down under !!!
>
> Gooday mates
>
> ( ya=2C I also watched crocodile Dundee 14 times...)
>
> Roger
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thruster87
> Sent: Monday=2C January 05=2C 2009 6:08 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy
>
>
> I keep forgetting some countries still use the OLD Imperial scale [For
> Queen/KING and Country].The issue should have been finalized back at the
> Boston Tea party Times and they drive on the wrong side of the street to
> boot as well !!!!!!!!! So whose NUTS? OH I forgot already!!!!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223044#223044
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
_________________________________________________________________
It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad
1_122008
Message 3
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| Subject: | Cell phones and flying |
Gang
I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a
Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from
Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal.
I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will
auto reconnect when it finds it again.
Thanks,
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/)
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/)
_www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/)
Do not archive
**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
Message 4
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| Subject: | Cell phones and flying |
The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC
regulation: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm
From: Afterfxllc@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 6 Jan 2009 12:17:48 -0500Subject: Zeni
th-List: Cell phones and flyingTo: zenith-list@matronics.com
Gang
I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have
a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from L
ouisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a si
gnal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it
will auto reconnect when it finds it again.
Thanks=2C
Jeff GarrettLouisville Ky.601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%601XL N524B Aero
lite Corvair 155 Hrs601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrswww.aeroliteprod
ucts.comwww.project601xl.comwww.aerolite.camstreams.comDo not archive
New year...new ne=emlcntaolcom00000026">headlines.
_________________________________________________________________
Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed
_122008
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| Subject: | Re: William Wynne Parts for sale |
Blimey, you had me worried. I though William had been 'parted out'!
--------
Zodiac XL/Jab 3300
http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223148#223148
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the
question? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when
the
signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that will
answer my question.
Jeff
The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC
regulation: _http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm_
(http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm)
____________________________________
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
Gang
I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a
Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from
Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal.
I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will
auto reconnect when it finds it again.
Thanks,
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/)
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/)
_www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/)
Do not archive
**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Jeff, if Governors can sell U.S. Senate seats and Congressmen can keep $90,000.
in bribe money in their freezer then you as an American taxpayer should be able
to use your cell phone while flying the airplane you built. I have a copy of
the U.S. Constitution setting right here on my desk and I can't find the dammed
FCC anywhere in there. Go for it and best of luck, Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 1:06 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the question? I
never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when the signal
will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that will answer
my question.
?
Jeff
The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC regulation:? http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
Gang
?
I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a Sprint
Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from Louisville
to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal. I know
I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect
when it finds it again.
?
?
Thanks,
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair? 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair? 155 Hrs
601XL N2257? Aerolite Corvair? 225 Hrs
www.aeroliteproducts.com
www.project601xl.com
www.aerolite.camstreams.com
Do not archive
?
New year...new news. Be taolcom00000026">headlines.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Cell phones and flying |
The following link says a tower has a service area of about 10 square miles
. Using the area formula=2C r**2=10/pi. That implies a radius of about
9420 feet. Thus your slant range to the tower would need to be about 9420
feet. If there is a tower every mile that implies you could fly to about 7
800 feet above the tower height. http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.htm
l
From: Afterfxllc@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 6 Jan 2009 13:06:22 -0500Subject: Re:
Zenith-List: Cell phones and flyingTo: zenith-list@matronics.com
Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the questio
n? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when th
e signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that wi
ll answer my question.
Jeff
The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC
regulation: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm
From: Afterfxllc@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 6 Jan 2009 12:17:48 -0500Subject: Zeni
th-List: Cell phones and flyingTo: zenith-list@matronics.com
Gang
I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have
a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from L
ouisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a si
gnal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it
will auto reconnect when it finds it again.
Thanks=2C
Jeff GarrettLouisville Ky.601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%601XL N524B Aero
lite Corvair 155 Hrs601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrswww.aeroliteprod
ucts.comwww.project601xl.comwww.aerolite.camstreams.comDo not archive
New year...new news. Be taolcom00000026">headlines.
_________________________________________________________________
It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad
1_122008
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:06:22PM -0500, Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote:
> Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the
> question? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when
the
> signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that will
> answer my question.
If you're going to broadcast via web cam, you're going to be transmitting,
and that's prohibited - for a VERY good reason: the cellphone network was
not designed to handle cellphone transmitters in flight, and does not do it
well. It causes an extremely heavy load on every cell site that can see your
phone, and there are LOTS of them if you're at any altitude.
It's a really bad idea. Don't even think about it. Record and upload later.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Now that's what this list is for...... Thank you very much. If this works it
will be cool to watch a live flight and if my wings fall off I'll be sure to
let you know exactly what is happening all the way to the crash site.
Jeff
The following link says a tower has a service area of about 10 square miles.
Using the area formula, r**2=10/pi. That implies a radius of about 9420
feet. Thus your slant range to the tower would need to be about 9420 feet.
If there is a tower every mile that implies you could fly to about 7800 feet
above the tower height. _http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.html_
(http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.html)
____________________________________
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the
question? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when
the
signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that will
answer my question.
Jeff
The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC
regulation: _http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm_
(http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm)
____________________________________
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
Gang
I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a
Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from
Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal.
I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will
auto reconnect when it finds it again.
Thanks,
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
_www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/)
_www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/)
_www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/)
Do not archive
**************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:26:23PM -0500, Frank Roskind wrote:
> The following link says a tower has a service area of about 10 square
> miles. Using the area formula, r**2=10/pi. That implies a radius of
> about 9420 feet. Thus your slant range to the tower would need to be
> about 9420 feet. If there is a tower every mile that implies you could
> fly to about 7800 feet above the tower height.
> http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.html
That is only valid for a ground level station, and includes effects such as
attenuation from trees and buildings and the curvature of the earth. A cell
site can see a phone from much farther away if it's airborne.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:40:29PM -0500, Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote:
> Now that's what this list is for...... Thank you very much. If this works it
> will be cool to watch a live flight and if my wings fall off I'll be sure to
> let you know exactly what is happening all the way to the crash site.
Don't forget to tell us about the fine from the FCC, too. They've been known
to do that.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Jeff,
If you are not going to use your cell phone in the air, you will loose the signal
when you turn your cell phone off.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:06 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the
question? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when
the signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that will
answer my question.
?
Jeff
The use
of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC
regulation:? http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Subject:
Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
zenith-list@matronics.com
Gang
?
I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I
have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from
Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a
signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it
will auto reconnect when it finds it again.
?
?
Thanks,
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL
N962T Aerolite Corvair? 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair? 155
Hrs
601XL N2257? Aerolite Corvair? 225 Hrs
www.aeroliteproducts.com
www.project601xl.com
www.aerolite.camstreams.com
Do
not archive
?
New year...new news. Be taolcom00000026">headlines.
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
If you have troubles in the air PLEASE DO NOT use your cell phone to call
for help, wait till after you crash and then use your cell phone to call for
help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) Jerry of GA Do not archive
In a message dated 1/6/2009 1:54:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jaybannist@cs.com writes:
Jeff,
If you are not going to use your cell phone in the air, you will loose the
signal when you turn your cell phone off.
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
**************Stay up-to-date on the latest news - from fashion trends to
celebrity break-ups and everything in between.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
That is exactly what I did.? I called 911.? The other guy called his wife (?).
Jay in Dallas
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeyoung65@aol.com
Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 1:03 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
If you have troubles in the air PLEASE DO NOT use your cell phone to call
for help, wait till after you crash and then use your cell phone to call for
help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) Jerry of GA? Do not archive
?
In a message dated 1/6/2009 1:54:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jaybannist@cs.com writes:
Jeff,
If you are not
going to use your cell phone in the air, you will loose the signal when you
turn your cell phone off.
Jay in Dallas
Do not
archive
latest news - from fashion trends to celebrity break-ups and everything in between.
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Corvair College # 13 |
Corvair College # 13 is now less than 2 weeks away!
For those of you that are in the Washington area, who are flying down commercial
and are some what less than interested in trying to "carry on" your engine &
parts; I am still willing to bring them down with me.
There is no charge for this service, I am going that way anyway. :)
I only say that because someone asked. :)
you must however bring it to me before hand :)
You can call me @ 1-866-606-4152
Or see my website for an address
I will be busy in the shop so If I don't answer just leave a message & I will return
your call during a break.
--------
Brady McCormick
Poulsbo, WA
www.magnificentmachine.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223178#223178
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Here is a pretty good technical explanation of 'why not' from Wikipedia. The
short version is that, while it will likely work, it is just as likely to
cause other paying users of the cell system to suffer an increased number of
dropped calls and chopped audio. Leaving a path of people looking at their
cell phones wondering what happened to their call just so you can show
hopefully boring in-flight video seems more than a little rude to both the
cell company and fellow Americans. Might I suggest that you stream the video
to hard disk and then use a free video editing package to make something for
youTube? That way you can share the adventure without leaving a trail of
illegal 'rf droppings' along your path.
Dave
pilot and ham radio operator
The U.S. Federal Communications
Commission<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission>
currently
prohibits the use of mobile telephones<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_phone>
aboard *any* aircraft in flight. The reason given is that mobile phone
systems depend on channel reuse, and operating a phone at altitude may
violate the fundamental assumptions that allow channel reuse to work.[*citation
needed <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>*]
Mobile telephones are intentionally designed with low power output. A tower
is the center of a "cell" and due to attenuation with distance (inverse
square law <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_square_law>) cell phone
transmissions can usually be received only weakly by towers in adjacent
cells, and not at all in cells farther away (non-adjacent cells). This
allows the channel used by any given phone to be reused by other phones in
non-adjacent cells. This principle allows tens or hundreds of thousands of
people to use their phones at the same time in a given metropolitan area
while using only a limited number of channels.
Channel reuse works because from a mobile phone on the ground, there will
only be one "closest" tower that can possibly use a particular group of
frequencies, CDMA codes, or time slots. The software that manages the system
assumes that the signal from a phone on a particular tower can, on other
towers, only be "heard" at greatly reduced signal strength. The frequency,
code, or time slot used by the phone can therefore be reused by other phones
on other towers.
In the old analog cell system a channel was simply a frequency pair; there
were seven groups of 35 channels each, and no two adjacent cells used the
same channel groups. Modern CDMA <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDMA> and
TDMA <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDMA> systems are more complex: A channel
in TDMA is a frequency pair and a time slot, and a channel in CDMA is a
spread spectrum key, but the principle of channel reuse still applies.
If a mobile phone is operated from an aircraft in flight above a city, this
assumption is no longer valid, because the towers of many different cells
may be about equidistant from the phone. Multiple towers might assume that
the phone is under their control. The phone could be assigned a free channel
by one tower, but could be heard on other towers using the same channel
group, and the channel might already be in use on those towers. This could
cause interference with existing calls. It is possible that the software
controlling the towers could crash.[*citation
needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
*] Even if the software can cope with hearing the same phone on multiple,
non-adjacent towers, the result at best is an overall decrease in the
system's capacity.
An additional concern is the output power of the mobile handset. Because the
towers might be many miles below the aircraft, the phone might have to
transmit at its maximum power to be received. This will increase the risk of
interference with electronic equipment on the aircraft.
To protect the integrity of the electronic control and navigation equipment
aboard large airliners in commercial service, the use of cellphones designed
for terrestrial service is forbidden. The FCC, however, did allocate
spectrum in the 450 MHz and 800 MHz frequency bands for use by equipment
designed and tested for safety for air-to-ground service, and these systems
use widely separated ground stations. In the 450 MHz band, co-channel
assignments are at least 497 miles apart, and in the 800 MHz band, only
specific sites were authorized by the FCC. The 450 MHz service is limited to
"general aviation" users (corporate jets mostly), while the 800 MHz spectrum
can be used by airliners as well as general aviation. The 450 MHz is named
AGRAS, while the 800 MHz service is under review following an auction of
spectrum in 2006.
On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:26:23PM -0500, Frank Roskind wrote:
> > The following link says a tower has a service area of about 10 square
> > miles. Using the area formula, r**2=10/pi. That implies a radius of
> > about 9420 feet. Thus your slant range to the tower would need to be
> > about 9420 feet. If there is a tower every mile that implies you could
> > fly to about 7800 feet above the tower height.
> > http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.html
>
> That is only valid for a ground level station, and includes effects such as
> attenuation from trees and buildings and the curvature of the earth. A cell
> site can see a phone from much farther away if it's airborne.
> --
> Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
> http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
> Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
> AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Hi Jeff,
Cell phones operate from about 800 MHz to over 2 GHz depending on
which type of phone you have. These are all pretty much line of
sight signals.
The problem with using these phones from airplanes is the signals are
received by hundreds or even thousands of cell phone towers at the
same time. This is not a problem when you have an established base
station but it becomes a nightmare for the network when it comes time
for a hand-off from one tower to another.
I don't know the legal ramifications of using a cell phone in an
airplane, but I do know it causes great technical problems for the
network providers.
If you really feel a need to broadcast real time video from your
airplane, perhaps you should look into some sort of satellite service.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 10:06 AM 1/6/2009, you wrote:
>
>I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal?
>I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my
>flight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know
>if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the
>mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again.
>
>
>Thanks,
>Jeff Garrett
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: CH-650 for X-plane? |
It's pretty much the same airplane. Most of the changes are cosmetic and wouldn't
affect flight simulator characteristics, except maybe the change in wing incidence.
But a new sim design might very well have a chance of flying more like
the real thing.
--------
Bob Simmons
CH 750!!!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223196#223196
Message 20
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TEST do not archive
My last two posts ended up in cyberland, at least I never recieved them.
Lynn 601 XL / Corvair Flight
Testing
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
the range to altitude will be very variable because the base station aerials will
be optimised for coverage at ground level. They may be adjusted to give good
coverage along roadways and railways but not for airways. Add to this the
way that the power output and time delays of your handset is controlled by the
signal strength seen at the ground station and this has a maximum rate of adjustment
that limits the speed that the handset can move at to not much more than
100mph if directly approaching or leaving the ground station. The maximum
range of handsets used to be around 30 miles but I guess that the cells are much
smaller than this to allow more callers to make simultaneous calls per square
mile than in the early days of the digital networks.
--------
A good way through building a 601UL with 912UL.
Still flying Rans S6 with 503.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223210#223210
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
I have Lightspeed 20 3 G's for headsets and I keep my cell phone plugged
in when I fly out here in jackson hole wy. I have great signal strength
all the way up to 17,900 MSL.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote:
Gang I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal?
I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my fl
ight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I
will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more th
an likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. Thanks,Je
ff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
www.aeroliteproducts.com
www.project601xl.com
www.aerolite.camstreams.com
Do not archive
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
========================
===
____________________________________________________________
Become a Top Chef!
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9Mm3FYBbqbWad07oJRA
fHSu6E42Vq1rHN2AyR4MjoH8Ag7g/
Message 23
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| Subject: | Cell phones and flying |
Philosophical, moral, and legal issues aside I believe the twin 601XL's
built at QSP by the Smith brothers both have cellular data modems installed
and connected to onboard tablet computers. I asked about how well it worked
flying at altitude and was told the coverage was good.
I have my doubts about a high altitude cell phone bringing the network to
its knees. I can use a cell phone from a mountain side or peak where any
number of towers will see my phone. The networks aren't that delicate. Or
they work so poorly in normal circumstances that I doubt any of us would
notice a few flying phones.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:18 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
Gang
I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a
Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from
Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a
signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it
will auto reconnect when it finds it again.
Thanks,
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
www.aeroliteproducts.com <http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/>
www.project601xl.com <http://www.project601xl.com/>
www.aerolite.camstreams.com <http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/>
Do not archive
_____
New year...new ne=emlcntaolcom00000026">headlines.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
I have accidentally left my cell phone (AT&T) in an aircraft and signal was lost
about 3000 ft msl.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223222#223222
Message 25
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| Subject: | Cell phones and flying |
Howdy all;
I should noted, that cell phone antennas are designed to be directional and
to not radiate up, so to speak. So you could fly right over one and still
not have a signal.
I think the bigger problem is locking onto several cell towers
simultainously, at least that's what the cell guys have talked about at my
engineering firm.
Having said that, my flight instructor used his regularly in flight and it
seam to work fine, even going cross country (2000 agl).
Roger
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Afterfxllc@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the
question? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know
when the signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link
that will answer my question.
Jeff
The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC
regulation: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm
_____
From: Afterfxllc@aol.com
Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
Gang
I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a
Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from
Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a
signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it
will auto reconnect when it finds it again.
Thanks,
Jeff Garrett
Louisville Ky.
601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%
601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs
601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs
www.aeroliteproducts.com <http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/>
www.project601xl.com <http://www.project601xl.com/>
www.aerolite.camstreams.com <http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/>
Do not archive
_____
New year...new news. Be taolcom00000026">headlines.
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: unrolling the canopy |
Sorry, it's my Kansas accent sounding through..GDAY.
I would like to go down under someday, but my wife swears she will never set
foot in Australia though, I guess the Jack Jumpers on TV spooked her.
Roger
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Webber
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:51 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy
Hey Roger its not gooday its GDAY mates ahhruuu!
Larry
> From: hills@sunflower.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy
> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:45:29 -0600
>
<hills@sunflower.com>
>
>
> I guess that just shows ya how good Zeniths are, if your willing to pay
> shipping all the way to Australia to get parts... me, I live about 3 hours
> from the Zenith factory in Mexico, Missouri ,,,ya I know, green with
> jealousy you must all be right now down under !!!
>
> Gooday mates
>
> ( ya, I also watched crocodile Dundee 14 times...)
>
> Roger
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thruster87
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 6:08 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy
>
>
> I keep forgetting some countries still use the OLD Imperial scale [For
> Queen/KING and Country].The issue should have been finalized back at the
> Boston Tea party Times and they drive on the wrong side of the street to
> boot as well !!!!!!!!! So whose NUTS? OH I forgot already!!!!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223044#223044
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> < Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>=======================
>
>
>
_____
It's the same HotmailR. If by "same" you mean up to 70% faster. Get your
account now.
<http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad1_
122008>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
I understand the reasoning here. What I don't understand is how this
works in Europe and Canada, where it is legal to use cell phones in
planes while the FCC insists we can't in the US. Seems to me either
we have a very poor cellular infrastructure or the FCC is blowing
smoke. The alternative is that they just don't care in Canada or
Europe and I'm definitely not buying that argument.
Ron
On Jan 6, 2009, at 3:41 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> Cell phones operate from about 800 MHz to over 2 GHz depending on
> which type of phone you have. These are all pretty much line of
> sight signals.
>
> The problem with using these phones from airplanes is the signals
> are received by hundreds or even thousands of cell phone towers at
> the same time. This is not a problem when you have an established
> base station but it becomes a nightmare for the network when it
> comes time for a hand-off from one tower to another.
>
> I don't know the legal ramifications of using a cell phone in an
> airplane, but I do know it causes great technical problems for the
> network providers.
>
> If you really feel a need to broadcast real time video from your
> airplane, perhaps you should look into some sort of satellite service.
>
> Paul
> XL getting close
> do not archive
>
>
> At 10:06 AM 1/6/2009, you wrote:
>>
>> I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal?
>> I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam
>> my flight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't
>> know if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the
>> mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds
>> it again.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jeff Garrett
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
At 20:44 06-01-09, you wrote:
>I understand the reasoning here. What I don't understand is how
>this works in Europe and Canada, where it is legal to use cell
>phones in planes while the
Here's something from the Canadian Owners and Pilots Association from
a few years ago: [my emphasis]
>The April 20th, 2000 amendment to the AIP added paragraph COM 5.14,
>encouraging cell phone use during radio communications failures in
>aircraft. This lead your COPA staff to do some digging to find out
>exactly what the rules are for using cell phones from aircraft in flight.
>Industry Canada, who regulate the use of the radio spectrum in
>Canada, indicated that there is no law prohibiting the use of cell
>phones from aircraft in Canada. Their technical
>representative did indicate that most airlines ban cell phone use
>because of potential interference with the airliner's
>avionics. [ed: There are also Transport Canada recommendations on
>that matter.] There is also the potential for problems within the
>cellular network, due the high altitude airborne cell phone hitting
>several different network cells at one time.
>In checking with one of the country's largest cell phone service
>providers, they indicated that they have no rules prohibiting cell
>phone use from airplanes. They also indicated that they have had no
>problems with multiple cell "hits" from a single airborne phone
>causing problems and were unaware that any airborne calls were being made.
While it is encouraging, it doesn't rule out some adverse effect out
of proportion to the number of airborne users, that the company
wasn't aware of.
Peter Chapman
Toronto, ON
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: unrolling the canopy |
Jack Jumpers???
???
What the heck are Jack jumpers?
Chris
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223263#223263
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Hi Ron,
Your conclusion is based on the very wrong assumption that the cell
phone systems used in these different places are the same. They are not.
Cell phone systems depend on a plan of allocating frequency (channel)
and geographic space. There are many different ways to share the
radio frequencies, and all of them are in use in the USA. In other
countries there are usually a subset of the whole group of possible choices.
Each different technology has different geographic limits designed
into the network. In the original cell phone "Analog" system the
frequency use and potential collision problem was similar to the
radio frequency issues in aircraft radio systems. When two
transmitters turned on the same frequency and same geographic area at
the same time there was a collision and nothing got
received. Because of line of sight transmission limitations, the
frequencies were reused in cell sites (loosely the same as towers)
that were far enough apart that there could be no collisions. An
airplane that can transmit to both of these physically separate sites
defeats this design. Just like with aircraft radios, you can get
away with this sometimes and get clobbered other times. It depends
on whether there is another transmitter going at the same time as yours.
Newer, digital, technologies have new ways to share radio frequency
space while avoiding or tolerating collisions. In TDMA (Time
Division Multiple Access), messages are compressed and burst
transmitted on assigned frequencies. The compression allows several
transmitters to take turns over time without any collisions. In CDMA
(Code Division Multiple Access) a "Frequency Agile" approach is used
where each transmitter changes the frequency used after each few
bits. In this system collisions happen randomly but only for a few
bits at a time and the original message is recovered because of an
error correction code built into each message.
Still, there is a real chance of problems when the transmitter is in
an airplane and the signal travels hundreds of miles instead of only
a few miles as it would on the ground.
So, in reality the impact of using a cell phone in an airplane varies
on the type of cell phone used, the network technology involved, and
the local design of the actual network. If you are in a sparsely
populated area like Canada the impact is less likely to be a
problem. In other places like Europe the systems are so limited that
you don't face inter-system technology problems. I would guess the
most complicated set of different systems and heavy population is
found in the USA - at least from the point of view of cell phone
users and network providers.
So there is more likelihood of a problem with cell phone use in an
airplane in the USA. There are just too many people and too many
cell phones too close together for this to not be an issue.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
(and yes, you guessed it, the last honest work I did before retiring
was designing cell phones.)
At 05:44 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote:
>I understand the reasoning here. What I don't understand is how
>this works in Europe and Canada, where it is legal to use cell
>phones in planes while the FCC insists we can't in the US. Seems to
>me either we have a very poor cellular infrastructure or the FCC is
>blowing smoke. The alternative is that they just don't care in
>Canada or Europe and I'm definitely not buying that argument.
>
>Ron
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: unrolling the canopy |
Do not archive
Ah come on mate, you know, jack jumper ants or hopper ant or jumper ant,
Myrmecia pilosula, is a species of bulldog ant that is native to Australia.
The ants are recorded throughout the country, but are most often found in
Tasmania, rural Victoria, New South Wales, Australian Capital Territory and
the southeast area of South Australia.
Jack jumper ants are carnivores and scavengers. They sting their victims
with venom that is similar to stings of wasps, bees, and fire ants. Their
venom is some of the most powerful in the insect world. Jack jumper ants are
proven hunters; even wasps are hunted and devoured. These ants have
excellent vision, which aids them in hunting.
These ants are black, with yellow or orange legs, antennae and mandibles.
They are 10-12 mm long. Their characteristic jumping motion when in an
agitated state gave them their name. Their nests may be inconspicuously
hidden under a rock, or may be formed from a 20 to 60 cm diameter mound of
finely granular gravel.
The symptoms of the stings of the ants are similar to stings of the fire
ants. The reaction is local; swelling, reddening and fever, followed by
formation of a blister. The heart rate increases, and blood pressure falls
rapidly. In individuals allergic to the venom (about 3% of cases), a sting
sometimes causes anaphylactic shock. Although 3% may seem small, jack jumper
ants cause more deaths in Tasmania than spiders, snakes, wasps, and sharks
combined.[1]
Sound Familiar Chris ?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 8:49 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy
<chris_sinfield@yahoo.com.au>
Jack Jumpers???
???
What the heck are Jack jumpers?
Chris
Do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223263#223263
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Interesting discussion. We are probably getting off topic, but I feel
it's a matter of safety as well as convenience. I understand most of
the world, including Europe and Canada use GSM while we have GSM, TDMA
and CDMA. I thought that one of the benefits of CDMA and TDMA is that
roaming from tower to tower was supposed to be more reliable with
fewer drops (The networks just increases compression until a call is
ended). Maybe this works against you in this situation. At any rate
my GSM phone puts an annoying buzz on the intercom every time is says
hello to the network, so I keep off anyway.
Cheers,
Ron
On Jan 6, 2009, at 10:19 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
>
> Hi Ron,
>
> Your conclusion is based on the very wrong assumption that the cell
> phone systems used in these different places are the same. They are
> not.
>
> Cell phone systems depend on a plan of allocating frequency
> (channel) and geographic space. There are many different ways to
> share the radio frequencies, and all of them are in use in the USA.
> In other countries there are usually a subset of the whole group of
> possible choices.
>
> Each different technology has different geographic limits designed
> into the network. In the original cell phone "Analog" system the
> frequency use and potential collision problem was similar to the
> radio frequency issues in aircraft radio systems. When two
> transmitters turned on the same frequency and same geographic area
> at the same time there was a collision and nothing got received.
> Because of line of sight transmission limitations, the frequencies
> were reused in cell sites (loosely the same as towers) that were far
> enough apart that there could be no collisions. An airplane that
> can transmit to both of these physically separate sites defeats this
> design. Just like with aircraft radios, you can get away with this
> sometimes and get clobbered other times. It depends on whether
> there is another transmitter going at the same time as yours.
>
> Newer, digital, technologies have new ways to share radio frequency
> space while avoiding or tolerating collisions. In TDMA (Time
> Division Multiple Access), messages are compressed and burst
> transmitted on assigned frequencies. The compression allows several
> transmitters to take turns over time without any collisions. In
> CDMA (Code Division Multiple Access) a "Frequency Agile" approach is
> used where each transmitter changes the frequency used after each
> few bits. In this system collisions happen randomly but only for a
> few bits at a time and the original message is recovered because of
> an error correction code built into each message.
>
> Still, there is a real chance of problems when the transmitter is in
> an airplane and the signal travels hundreds of miles instead of only
> a few miles as it would on the ground.
>
> So, in reality the impact of using a cell phone in an airplane
> varies on the type of cell phone used, the network technology
> involved, and the local design of the actual network. If you are in
> a sparsely populated area like Canada the impact is less likely to
> be a problem. In other places like Europe the systems are so
> limited that you don't face inter-system technology problems. I
> would guess the most complicated set of different systems and heavy
> population is found in the USA - at least from the point of view of
> cell phone users and network providers.
>
> So there is more likelihood of a problem with cell phone use in an
> airplane in the USA. There are just too many people and too many
> cell phones too close together for this to not be an issue.
>
> Paul
> XL getting close
> do not archive
>
> (and yes, you guessed it, the last honest work I did before retiring
> was designing cell phones.)
>
>
> At 05:44 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote:
>> I understand the reasoning here. What I don't understand is how
>> this works in Europe and Canada, where it is legal to use cell
>> phones in planes while the FCC insists we can't in the US. Seems
>> to me either we have a very poor cellular infrastructure or the FCC
>> is blowing smoke. The alternative is that they just don't care in
>> Canada or Europe and I'm definitely not buying that argument.
>>
>> Ron
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: unrolling the canopy |
The only ant that size I have seen is the one a fell on going over a fence [that
was 40yrs ago] and the bugger bit me so I retaliated by stomping it 6" under
the ground and it still was moving around.We call them Bull Ants.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223279#223279
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Hi Ron,
I'm glad you find this interesting. I was afraid I might be getting
too technical for this crowd. Give me a few more tries at
remembering all this dusty stuff and I probably can come up with some
really weird notions.
GSM is actually a single implementation of TDMA. It is used in
Europe, Asia, and now in the USA as well. There are other TDMA
systems in use simultaneously in the USA. In particular, IS-54 is
the one used by the last phone I designed. It is technologically
very similar to GSM but totally incompatible when used on the same
frequency set.
The changing of a call from one tower to another is called a "Hand
off". Just as it is in IFR radio use. The process is completely
done by computers in the cell phone case. In the FAA case, the hand
off is done with world war 2 human based technology. I don't think
there is a significant difference in hand off technology between the
various cell phone systems. In all cases the losing cell site asks
neighboring sites to measure the signal strength it sees for the
target phone. The one with the best signal gets the hand off. It is
easy to imagine that a distant phone in an airplane could interfere
with this process for an unsuspecting ground based user and network.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 07:37 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote:
>Interesting discussion. We are probably getting off topic, but I feel
>it's a matter of safety as well as convenience. I understand most of
>the world, including Europe and Canada use GSM while we have GSM, TDMA
>and CDMA. I thought that one of the benefits of CDMA and TDMA is that
>roaming from tower to tower was supposed to be more reliable with
>fewer drops (The networks just increases compression until a call is
>ended). Maybe this works against you in this situation. At any rate
>my GSM phone puts an annoying buzz on the intercom every time is says
>hello to the network, so I keep off anyway.
>
>Cheers,
>Ron
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Lighten up Jay. The FAA reccemends carrying a cell phone as a backup
communication method.
John Read
CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
In a message dated 1/6/2009 11:42:52 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
jmaynard@conmicro.com writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: Jay Maynard <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:26:23PM -0500, Frank Roskind wrote:
> The following link says a tower has a service area of about 10 square
> miles. Using the area formula, r**2=10/pi. That implies a radius of
> about 9420 feet. Thus your slant range to the tower would need to be
> about 9420 feet. If there is a tower every mile that implies you could
> fly to about 7800 feet above the tower height.
> http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.html
That is only valid for a ground level station, and includes effects such as
attenuation from trees and buildings and the curvature of the earth. A cell
site can see a phone from much farther away if it's airborne.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
**************Stay up-to-date on the latest news - from fashion trends to
celebrity break-ups and everything in between.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 11:17:06PM -0500, JohnDRead@aol.com wrote:
> Lighten up Jay. The FAA reccemends carrying a cell phone as a backup
> communication method.
In an emergency? Sure, anything goes. Lost comm, especially when IFR, is an
emergency. Under normal circumstances? No way. Just because it might be
cool? Get real. Paul's postings this evening about the reasons why using a
cellphone in flight is a Bad Idea are right on (as one would expect from
someone who actually knows about the subject, deep down, from having
designed the things). My cellphone, and that of my passenger, gets turned
off before taxi, and stays off until after landing, not only because I want
no part of that annoying buzz, but because it's the right thing to do.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Trying to stay out of this but:::
One time I lost transmit but could receive ok on my radio.
ATC asked and requested me to call them on my cell phone. Class "D" and
thats what they wanted.
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Maynard" <jmaynard@conmicro.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying
>
> On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 11:17:06PM -0500, JohnDRead@aol.com wrote:
>> Lighten up Jay. The FAA reccemends carrying a cell phone as a backup
>> communication method.
>
> In an emergency? Sure, anything goes. Lost comm, especially when IFR, is
> an
> emergency. Under normal circumstances? No way. Just because it might be
> cool? Get real. Paul's postings this evening about the reasons why using a
> cellphone in flight is a Bad Idea are right on (as one would expect from
> someone who actually knows about the subject, deep down, from having
> designed the things). My cellphone, and that of my passenger, gets turned
> off before taxi, and stays off until after landing, not only because I
> want
> no part of that annoying buzz, but because it's the right thing to do.
> --
> Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
> http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
> Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
> AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: unrolling the canopy |
Roger,
I have lived here for 45 years and never seen what you are talking about.. thats
both city and country, but thats not to say they dont exist..
As Allan said maybe confused with bull ants??? anyway bring her over and come fly
in our great country.. come on over and fly in an Xl, 701 or any other Zenith
plane.. Easter is our NATFLY ( your sun and fun)
Chris
Do not Archive.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223294#223294
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Cell phones and flying |
Darn I bought a cell phone adapter for my plane from ACS. I guess I can
use it on the ground.
Do not archive
--
Leo Gates
N601Z - CH601HDS TDO
Rotax 912UL
Frank Roskind wrote:
> The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by
> FCC regulation:
> http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Internet and flying |
Ok the cell phone discussion is great but, let me throw this in the mix
since the cell phone talk is a little off the mark.
I will have a cell phone with me that will be OFF but I have a Sprint Wi Fi
card that is for Internet use only that I will be using.... I understand this
is splitting hairs here but someone show me in the regs where it says we
can't use the Internet in an aircraft because after all I will be broadcasting
over the Internet not a cell phone.
This say's nothing about Internet only cards.
Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes,
balloons or any other type of aircraft must not be operated while such
aircraft are airborne (not touching the ground). When any aircraft
leaves the ground, all cellular telephones on board that aircraft must
be turned off. The following notice must be posted on or near each
cellular telephone installed in any aircraft:
``The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is airborne is
prohibited by FCC rules, and the violation of this rule could result in
suspension of service and/or a fine. The use of cellular telephones
while this aircraft is on the ground is subject to FAA regulations.''
Jeff
do not archive
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