---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/06/09: 40 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:30 AM - Re: How good is your eyeball? (sdthatcher) 2. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: unrolling the canopy (Lawrence Webber) 3. 09:22 AM - Cell phones and flying (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 4. 09:42 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Frank Roskind) 5. 09:58 AM - Re: William Wynne Parts for sale (lgingell) 6. 10:07 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 7. 10:24 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (japhillipsga@aol.com) 8. 10:27 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Frank Roskind) 9. 10:40 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Jay Maynard) 10. 10:41 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 11. 10:41 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Jay Maynard) 12. 10:49 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Jay Maynard) 13. 10:53 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (jaybannist@cs.com) 14. 11:04 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Jeyoung65@aol.com) 15. 11:13 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (jaybannist@cs.com) 16. 11:14 AM - Corvair College # 13 (Brady) 17. 11:58 AM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Dave Covert) 18. 12:42 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Paul Mulwitz) 19. 12:47 PM - Re: CH-650 for X-plane? (Rhino) 20. 02:06 PM - TEST (dingfelder) 21. 02:08 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (rans6andrew) 22. 02:28 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (n801bh@netzero.com) 23. 02:43 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Craig Payne) 24. 02:51 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Gig Giacona) 25. 03:38 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Roger & Lina Hill) 26. 03:45 PM - Re: Re: unrolling the canopy (Roger & Lina Hill) 27. 05:47 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Ronald Steele) 28. 06:18 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Peter Chapman) 29. 06:50 PM - Re: unrolling the canopy (chris Sinfield) 30. 07:19 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Paul Mulwitz) 31. 07:21 PM - Re: Re: unrolling the canopy (Roger & Lina Hill) 32. 07:38 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Ronald Steele) 33. 07:49 PM - Re: unrolling the canopy (Thruster87) 34. 08:09 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Paul Mulwitz) 35. 08:18 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (JohnDRead@aol.com) 36. 08:26 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Jay Maynard) 37. 08:34 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (steve) 38. 09:19 PM - Re: unrolling the canopy (chris Sinfield) 39. 09:23 PM - Re: Cell phones and flying (Leo Gates) 40. 10:18 PM - Re: Internet and flying (Afterfxllc@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:13 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: How good is your eyeball? From: "sdthatcher" OK, so what if I got 13 on my first try and 8 on my second. Who cares... I go by the plans anyway! :-) Oh yea, my monitor was one of those old Viewsonic brands that needed to be held up with an old nosewheel tire and the vertical and horizontal adjustments have been broke for a long time... What do I win? Great fun Terry! Do Not Archive -------- Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL 601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA N601EL, EAA203 25 hours and climbing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223110#223110 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:56 AM PST US From: Lawrence Webber Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy Hey Roger its not gooday its GDAY mates ahhruuu! Larry > From: hills@sunflower.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy > Date: Mon=2C 5 Jan 2009 19:45:29 -0600 > om> > > > I guess that just shows ya how good Zeniths are=2C if your willing to pay > shipping all the way to Australia to get parts... me=2C I live about 3 ho urs > from the Zenith factory in Mexico=2C Missouri =2C=2C=2Cya I know=2C green with > jealousy you must all be right now down under !!! > > Gooday mates > > ( ya=2C I also watched crocodile Dundee 14 times...) > > Roger > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thruster87 > Sent: Monday=2C January 05=2C 2009 6:08 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy > > > I keep forgetting some countries still use the OLD Imperial scale [For > Queen/KING and Country].The issue should have been finalized back at the > Boston Tea party Times and they drive on the wrong side of the street to > boot as well !!!!!!!!! So whose NUTS? OH I forgot already!!!! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223044#223044 > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad 1_122008 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:03 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Gang I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. Thanks, Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs _www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/) _www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/) _www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/) Do not archive **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:39 AM PST US From: Frank Roskind Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC regulation: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm From: Afterfxllc@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 6 Jan 2009 12:17:48 -0500Subject: Zeni th-List: Cell phones and flyingTo: zenith-list@matronics.com Gang I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from L ouisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a si gnal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. Thanks=2C Jeff GarrettLouisville Ky.601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%601XL N524B Aero lite Corvair 155 Hrs601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrswww.aeroliteprod ucts.comwww.project601xl.comwww.aerolite.camstreams.comDo not archive New year...new ne=emlcntaolcom00000026">headlines. _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed _122008 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:06 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: William Wynne Parts for sale From: "lgingell" Blimey, you had me worried. I though William had been 'parted out'! -------- Zodiac XL/Jab 3300 http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223148#223148 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:27 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the question? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when the signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that will answer my question. Jeff The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC regulation: _http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm_ (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm) ____________________________________ From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Gang I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. Thanks, Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs _www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/) _www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/) _www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/) Do not archive **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying From: japhillipsga@aol.com Jeff, if Governors can sell U.S. Senate seats and Congressmen can keep $90,000. in bribe money in their freezer then you as an American taxpayer should be able to use your cell phone while flying the airplane you built. I have a copy of the U.S. Constitution setting right here on my desk and I can't find the dammed FCC anywhere in there. Go for it and best of luck, Bill -----Original Message----- From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 1:06 pm Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the question? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when the signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that will answer my question. ? Jeff The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC regulation:? http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Gang ? I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. ? ? Thanks, Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair? 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair? 155 Hrs 601XL N2257? Aerolite Corvair? 225 Hrs www.aeroliteproducts.com www.project601xl.com www.aerolite.camstreams.com Do not archive ? New year...new news. Be taolcom00000026">headlines. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:27:49 AM PST US From: Frank Roskind Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying The following link says a tower has a service area of about 10 square miles . Using the area formula=2C r**2=10/pi. That implies a radius of about 9420 feet. Thus your slant range to the tower would need to be about 9420 feet. If there is a tower every mile that implies you could fly to about 7 800 feet above the tower height. http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.htm l From: Afterfxllc@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 6 Jan 2009 13:06:22 -0500Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flyingTo: zenith-list@matronics.com Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the questio n? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when th e signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that wi ll answer my question. Jeff The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC regulation: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm From: Afterfxllc@aol.comDate: Tue=2C 6 Jan 2009 12:17:48 -0500Subject: Zeni th-List: Cell phones and flyingTo: zenith-list@matronics.com Gang I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from L ouisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a si gnal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. Thanks=2C Jeff GarrettLouisville Ky.601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90%601XL N524B Aero lite Corvair 155 Hrs601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrswww.aeroliteprod ucts.comwww.project601xl.comwww.aerolite.camstreams.comDo not archive New year...new news. Be taolcom00000026">headlines. _________________________________________________________________ It=92s the same Hotmail=AE. If by =93same=94 you mean up to 70% faster. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_broad 1_122008 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:40:20 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:06:22PM -0500, Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote: > Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the > question? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when the > signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that will > answer my question. If you're going to broadcast via web cam, you're going to be transmitting, and that's prohibited - for a VERY good reason: the cellphone network was not designed to handle cellphone transmitters in flight, and does not do it well. It causes an extremely heavy load on every cell site that can see your phone, and there are LOTS of them if you're at any altitude. It's a really bad idea. Don't even think about it. Record and upload later. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:16 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Now that's what this list is for...... Thank you very much. If this works it will be cool to watch a live flight and if my wings fall off I'll be sure to let you know exactly what is happening all the way to the crash site. Jeff The following link says a tower has a service area of about 10 square miles. Using the area formula, r**2=10/pi. That implies a radius of about 9420 feet. Thus your slant range to the tower would need to be about 9420 feet. If there is a tower every mile that implies you could fly to about 7800 feet above the tower height. _http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.html_ (http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.html) ____________________________________ From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the question? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when the signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that will answer my question. Jeff The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC regulation: _http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm_ (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm) ____________________________________ From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Gang I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. Thanks, Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs _www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/) _www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/) _www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/) Do not archive **************New year...new news. Be the first to know what is making ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:41 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:26:23PM -0500, Frank Roskind wrote: > The following link says a tower has a service area of about 10 square > miles. Using the area formula, r**2=10/pi. That implies a radius of > about 9420 feet. Thus your slant range to the tower would need to be > about 9420 feet. If there is a tower every mile that implies you could > fly to about 7800 feet above the tower height. > http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.html That is only valid for a ground level station, and includes effects such as attenuation from trees and buildings and the curvature of the earth. A cell site can see a phone from much farther away if it's airborne. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:45 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:40:29PM -0500, Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote: > Now that's what this list is for...... Thank you very much. If this works it > will be cool to watch a live flight and if my wings fall off I'll be sure to > let you know exactly what is happening all the way to the crash site. Don't forget to tell us about the fine from the FCC, too. They've been known to do that. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:04 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying From: jaybannist@cs.com Jeff, If you are not going to use your cell phone in the air, you will loose the signal when you turn your cell phone off. Jay in Dallas Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:06 pm Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the question? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when the signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that will answer my question. ? Jeff The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC regulation:? http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying zenith-list@matronics.com Gang ? I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. ? ? Thanks, Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair? 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair? 155 Hrs 601XL N2257? Aerolite Corvair? 225 Hrs www.aeroliteproducts.com www.project601xl.com www.aerolite.camstreams.com Do not archive ? New year...new news. Be taolcom00000026">headlines. ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:48 AM PST US From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying If you have troubles in the air PLEASE DO NOT use your cell phone to call for help, wait till after you crash and then use your cell phone to call for help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) Jerry of GA Do not archive In a message dated 1/6/2009 1:54:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jaybannist@cs.com writes: Jeff, If you are not going to use your cell phone in the air, you will loose the signal when you turn your cell phone off. Jay in Dallas Do not archive **************Stay up-to-date on the latest news - from fashion trends to celebrity break-ups and everything in between. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying From: jaybannist@cs.com That is exactly what I did.? I called 911.? The other guy called his wife (?). Jay in Dallas Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Jeyoung65@aol.com Sent: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 1:03 pm Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying If you have troubles in the air PLEASE DO NOT use your cell phone to call for help, wait till after you crash and then use your cell phone to call for help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) Jerry of GA? Do not archive ? In a message dated 1/6/2009 1:54:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jaybannist@cs.com writes: Jeff, If you are not going to use your cell phone in the air, you will loose the signal when you turn your cell phone off. Jay in Dallas Do not archive latest news - from fashion trends to celebrity break-ups and everything in between. ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:45 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Corvair College # 13 From: "Brady" Corvair College # 13 is now less than 2 weeks away! For those of you that are in the Washington area, who are flying down commercial and are some what less than interested in trying to "carry on" your engine & parts; I am still willing to bring them down with me. There is no charge for this service, I am going that way anyway. :) I only say that because someone asked. :) you must however bring it to me before hand :) You can call me @ 1-866-606-4152 Or see my website for an address I will be busy in the shop so If I don't answer just leave a message & I will return your call during a break. -------- Brady McCormick Poulsbo, WA www.magnificentmachine.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223178#223178 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:03 AM PST US From: "Dave Covert" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Here is a pretty good technical explanation of 'why not' from Wikipedia. The short version is that, while it will likely work, it is just as likely to cause other paying users of the cell system to suffer an increased number of dropped calls and chopped audio. Leaving a path of people looking at their cell phones wondering what happened to their call just so you can show hopefully boring in-flight video seems more than a little rude to both the cell company and fellow Americans. Might I suggest that you stream the video to hard disk and then use a free video editing package to make something for youTube? That way you can share the adventure without leaving a trail of illegal 'rf droppings' along your path. Dave pilot and ham radio operator The U.S. Federal Communications Commission currently prohibits the use of mobile telephones aboard *any* aircraft in flight. The reason given is that mobile phone systems depend on channel reuse, and operating a phone at altitude may violate the fundamental assumptions that allow channel reuse to work.[*citation needed *] Mobile telephones are intentionally designed with low power output. A tower is the center of a "cell" and due to attenuation with distance (inverse square law ) cell phone transmissions can usually be received only weakly by towers in adjacent cells, and not at all in cells farther away (non-adjacent cells). This allows the channel used by any given phone to be reused by other phones in non-adjacent cells. This principle allows tens or hundreds of thousands of people to use their phones at the same time in a given metropolitan area while using only a limited number of channels. Channel reuse works because from a mobile phone on the ground, there will only be one "closest" tower that can possibly use a particular group of frequencies, CDMA codes, or time slots. The software that manages the system assumes that the signal from a phone on a particular tower can, on other towers, only be "heard" at greatly reduced signal strength. The frequency, code, or time slot used by the phone can therefore be reused by other phones on other towers. In the old analog cell system a channel was simply a frequency pair; there were seven groups of 35 channels each, and no two adjacent cells used the same channel groups. Modern CDMA and TDMA systems are more complex: A channel in TDMA is a frequency pair and a time slot, and a channel in CDMA is a spread spectrum key, but the principle of channel reuse still applies. If a mobile phone is operated from an aircraft in flight above a city, this assumption is no longer valid, because the towers of many different cells may be about equidistant from the phone. Multiple towers might assume that the phone is under their control. The phone could be assigned a free channel by one tower, but could be heard on other towers using the same channel group, and the channel might already be in use on those towers. This could cause interference with existing calls. It is possible that the software controlling the towers could crash.[*citation needed *] Even if the software can cope with hearing the same phone on multiple, non-adjacent towers, the result at best is an overall decrease in the system's capacity. An additional concern is the output power of the mobile handset. Because the towers might be many miles below the aircraft, the phone might have to transmit at its maximum power to be received. This will increase the risk of interference with electronic equipment on the aircraft. To protect the integrity of the electronic control and navigation equipment aboard large airliners in commercial service, the use of cellphones designed for terrestrial service is forbidden. The FCC, however, did allocate spectrum in the 450 MHz and 800 MHz frequency bands for use by equipment designed and tested for safety for air-to-ground service, and these systems use widely separated ground stations. In the 450 MHz band, co-channel assignments are at least 497 miles apart, and in the 800 MHz band, only specific sites were authorized by the FCC. The 450 MHz service is limited to "general aviation" users (corporate jets mostly), while the 800 MHz spectrum can be used by airliners as well as general aviation. The 450 MHz is named AGRAS, while the 800 MHz service is under review following an auction of spectrum in 2006. On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Jay Maynard wrote: > > On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:26:23PM -0500, Frank Roskind wrote: > > The following link says a tower has a service area of about 10 square > > miles. Using the area formula, r**2=10/pi. That implies a radius of > > about 9420 feet. Thus your slant range to the tower would need to be > > about 9420 feet. If there is a tower every mile that implies you could > > fly to about 7800 feet above the tower height. > > http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.html > > That is only valid for a ground level station, and includes effects such as > attenuation from trees and buildings and the curvature of the earth. A cell > site can see a phone from much farther away if it's airborne. > -- > Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com > http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net > Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) > AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:05 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Hi Jeff, Cell phones operate from about 800 MHz to over 2 GHz depending on which type of phone you have. These are all pretty much line of sight signals. The problem with using these phones from airplanes is the signals are received by hundreds or even thousands of cell phone towers at the same time. This is not a problem when you have an established base station but it becomes a nightmare for the network when it comes time for a hand-off from one tower to another. I don't know the legal ramifications of using a cell phone in an airplane, but I do know it causes great technical problems for the network providers. If you really feel a need to broadcast real time video from your airplane, perhaps you should look into some sort of satellite service. Paul XL getting close do not archive At 10:06 AM 1/6/2009, you wrote: > >I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? >I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my >flight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know >if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the >mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. > > >Thanks, >Jeff Garrett ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: CH-650 for X-plane? From: "Rhino" It's pretty much the same airplane. Most of the changes are cosmetic and wouldn't affect flight simulator characteristics, except maybe the change in wing incidence. But a new sim design might very well have a chance of flying more like the real thing. -------- Bob Simmons CH 750!!! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223196#223196 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:32 PM PST US From: "dingfelder" Subject: Zenith-List: TEST TEST do not archive My last two posts ended up in cyberland, at least I never recieved them. Lynn 601 XL / Corvair Flight Testing ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:57 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cell phones and flying From: "rans6andrew" the range to altitude will be very variable because the base station aerials will be optimised for coverage at ground level. They may be adjusted to give good coverage along roadways and railways but not for airways. Add to this the way that the power output and time delays of your handset is controlled by the signal strength seen at the ground station and this has a maximum rate of adjustment that limits the speed that the handset can move at to not much more than 100mph if directly approaching or leaving the ground station. The maximum range of handsets used to be around 30 miles but I guess that the cells are much smaller than this to allow more callers to make simultaneous calls per square mile than in the early days of the digital networks. -------- A good way through building a 601UL with 912UL. Still flying Rans S6 with 503. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223210#223210 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:05 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying I have Lightspeed 20 3 G's for headsets and I keep my cell phone plugged in when I fly out here in jackson hole wy. I have great signal strength all the way up to 17,900 MSL. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- Afterfxllc@aol.com wrote: Gang I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my fl ight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more th an likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. Thanks,Je ff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs www.aeroliteproducts.com www.project601xl.com www.aerolite.camstreams.com Do not archive ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== === ____________________________________________________________ Become a Top Chef! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/PnY6rx9Mm3FYBbqbWad07oJRA fHSu6E42Vq1rHN2AyR4MjoH8Ag7g/ ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:27 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Philosophical, moral, and legal issues aside I believe the twin 601XL's built at QSP by the Smith brothers both have cellular data modems installed and connected to onboard tablet computers. I asked about how well it worked flying at altitude and was told the coverage was good. I have my doubts about a high altitude cell phone bringing the network to its knees. I can use a cell phone from a mountain side or peak where any number of towers will see my phone. The networks aren't that delicate. Or they work so poorly in normal circumstances that I doubt any of us would notice a few flying phones. -- Craig From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:18 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Gang I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. Thanks, Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs www.aeroliteproducts.com www.project601xl.com www.aerolite.camstreams.com Do not archive _____ New year...new ne=emlcntaolcom00000026">headlines. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:51:16 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Cell phones and flying From: "Gig Giacona" I have accidentally left my cell phone (AT&T) in an aircraft and signal was lost about 3000 ft msl. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223222#223222 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:18 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Howdy all; I should noted, that cell phone antennas are designed to be directional and to not radiate up, so to speak. So you could fly right over one and still not have a signal. I think the bigger problem is locking onto several cell towers simultainously, at least that's what the cell guys have talked about at my engineering firm. Having said that, my flight instructor used his regularly in flight and it seam to work fine, even going cross country (2000 agl). Roger _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Thank you for that very informative post.... now can you answer the question? I never said I was going to use my cell phone but wanted to know when the signal will be lost. Maybe you can find me an as informative link that will answer my question. Jeff The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by FCC regulation: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm _____ From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Gang I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam my flight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't know if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds it again. Thanks, Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs www.aeroliteproducts.com www.project601xl.com www.aerolite.camstreams.com Do not archive _____ New year...new news. Be taolcom00000026">headlines. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:43 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy Sorry, it's my Kansas accent sounding through..GDAY. I would like to go down under someday, but my wife swears she will never set foot in Australia though, I guess the Jack Jumpers on TV spooked her. Roger _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Webber Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy Hey Roger its not gooday its GDAY mates ahhruuu! Larry > From: hills@sunflower.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy > Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:45:29 -0600 > > > > I guess that just shows ya how good Zeniths are, if your willing to pay > shipping all the way to Australia to get parts... me, I live about 3 hours > from the Zenith factory in Mexico, Missouri ,,,ya I know, green with > jealousy you must all be right now down under !!! > > Gooday mates > > ( ya, I also watched crocodile Dundee 14 times...) > > Roger > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thruster87 > Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 6:08 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy > > > I keep forgetting some countries still use the OLD Imperial scale [For > Queen/KING and Country].The issue should have been finalized back at the > Boston Tea party Times and they drive on the wrong side of the street to > boot as well !!!!!!!!! So whose NUTS? OH I forgot already!!!! > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223044#223044 > > > > > > > > > < Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >======================= > > > _____ It's the same HotmailR. If by "same" you mean up to 70% faster. Get your account now. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:31 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying I understand the reasoning here. What I don't understand is how this works in Europe and Canada, where it is legal to use cell phones in planes while the FCC insists we can't in the US. Seems to me either we have a very poor cellular infrastructure or the FCC is blowing smoke. The alternative is that they just don't care in Canada or Europe and I'm definitely not buying that argument. Ron On Jan 6, 2009, at 3:41 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > Hi Jeff, > > Cell phones operate from about 800 MHz to over 2 GHz depending on > which type of phone you have. These are all pretty much line of > sight signals. > > The problem with using these phones from airplanes is the signals > are received by hundreds or even thousands of cell phone towers at > the same time. This is not a problem when you have an established > base station but it becomes a nightmare for the network when it > comes time for a hand-off from one tower to another. > > I don't know the legal ramifications of using a cell phone in an > airplane, but I do know it causes great technical problems for the > network providers. > > If you really feel a need to broadcast real time video from your > airplane, perhaps you should look into some sort of satellite service. > > Paul > XL getting close > do not archive > > > At 10:06 AM 1/6/2009, you wrote: >> >> I need to know at what altitude a cell phone will lose it's signal? >> I have a Sprint Internet card and wanted to broadcast via web cam >> my flight from Louisville to Florida live in the 601XL but I don't >> know if I will have a signal. I know I will lose signal over the >> mountains more than likely but it will auto reconnect when it finds >> it again. >> >> >> Thanks, >> Jeff Garrett > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:23 PM PST US From: Peter Chapman Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying At 20:44 06-01-09, you wrote: >I understand the reasoning here. What I don't understand is how >this works in Europe and Canada, where it is legal to use cell >phones in planes while the Here's something from the Canadian Owners and Pilots Association from a few years ago: [my emphasis] >The April 20th, 2000 amendment to the AIP added paragraph COM 5.14, >encouraging cell phone use during radio communications failures in >aircraft. This lead your COPA staff to do some digging to find out >exactly what the rules are for using cell phones from aircraft in flight. >Industry Canada, who regulate the use of the radio spectrum in >Canada, indicated that there is no law prohibiting the use of cell >phones from aircraft in Canada. Their technical >representative did indicate that most airlines ban cell phone use >because of potential interference with the airliner's >avionics. [ed: There are also Transport Canada recommendations on >that matter.] There is also the potential for problems within the >cellular network, due the high altitude airborne cell phone hitting >several different network cells at one time. >In checking with one of the country's largest cell phone service >providers, they indicated that they have no rules prohibiting cell >phone use from airplanes. They also indicated that they have had no >problems with multiple cell "hits" from a single airborne phone >causing problems and were unaware that any airborne calls were being made. While it is encouraging, it doesn't rule out some adverse effect out of proportion to the number of airborne users, that the company wasn't aware of. Peter Chapman Toronto, ON ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:40 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy From: "chris Sinfield" Jack Jumpers??? ??? What the heck are Jack jumpers? Chris Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223263#223263 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:46 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Hi Ron, Your conclusion is based on the very wrong assumption that the cell phone systems used in these different places are the same. They are not. Cell phone systems depend on a plan of allocating frequency (channel) and geographic space. There are many different ways to share the radio frequencies, and all of them are in use in the USA. In other countries there are usually a subset of the whole group of possible choices. Each different technology has different geographic limits designed into the network. In the original cell phone "Analog" system the frequency use and potential collision problem was similar to the radio frequency issues in aircraft radio systems. When two transmitters turned on the same frequency and same geographic area at the same time there was a collision and nothing got received. Because of line of sight transmission limitations, the frequencies were reused in cell sites (loosely the same as towers) that were far enough apart that there could be no collisions. An airplane that can transmit to both of these physically separate sites defeats this design. Just like with aircraft radios, you can get away with this sometimes and get clobbered other times. It depends on whether there is another transmitter going at the same time as yours. Newer, digital, technologies have new ways to share radio frequency space while avoiding or tolerating collisions. In TDMA (Time Division Multiple Access), messages are compressed and burst transmitted on assigned frequencies. The compression allows several transmitters to take turns over time without any collisions. In CDMA (Code Division Multiple Access) a "Frequency Agile" approach is used where each transmitter changes the frequency used after each few bits. In this system collisions happen randomly but only for a few bits at a time and the original message is recovered because of an error correction code built into each message. Still, there is a real chance of problems when the transmitter is in an airplane and the signal travels hundreds of miles instead of only a few miles as it would on the ground. So, in reality the impact of using a cell phone in an airplane varies on the type of cell phone used, the network technology involved, and the local design of the actual network. If you are in a sparsely populated area like Canada the impact is less likely to be a problem. In other places like Europe the systems are so limited that you don't face inter-system technology problems. I would guess the most complicated set of different systems and heavy population is found in the USA - at least from the point of view of cell phone users and network providers. So there is more likelihood of a problem with cell phone use in an airplane in the USA. There are just too many people and too many cell phones too close together for this to not be an issue. Paul XL getting close do not archive (and yes, you guessed it, the last honest work I did before retiring was designing cell phones.) At 05:44 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote: >I understand the reasoning here. What I don't understand is how >this works in Europe and Canada, where it is legal to use cell >phones in planes while the FCC insists we can't in the US. Seems to >me either we have a very poor cellular infrastructure or the FCC is >blowing smoke. The alternative is that they just don't care in >Canada or Europe and I'm definitely not buying that argument. > >Ron ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:23 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy Do not archive Ah come on mate, you know, jack jumper ants or hopper ant or jumper ant, Myrmecia pilosula, is a species of bulldog ant that is native to Australia. The ants are recorded throughout the country, but are most often found in Tasmania, rural Victoria, New South Wales, Australian Capital Territory and the southeast area of South Australia. Jack jumper ants are carnivores and scavengers. They sting their victims with venom that is similar to stings of wasps, bees, and fire ants. Their venom is some of the most powerful in the insect world. Jack jumper ants are proven hunters; even wasps are hunted and devoured. These ants have excellent vision, which aids them in hunting. These ants are black, with yellow or orange legs, antennae and mandibles. They are 10-12 mm long. Their characteristic jumping motion when in an agitated state gave them their name. Their nests may be inconspicuously hidden under a rock, or may be formed from a 20 to 60 cm diameter mound of finely granular gravel. The symptoms of the stings of the ants are similar to stings of the fire ants. The reaction is local; swelling, reddening and fever, followed by formation of a blister. The heart rate increases, and blood pressure falls rapidly. In individuals allergic to the venom (about 3% of cases), a sting sometimes causes anaphylactic shock. Although 3% may seem small, jack jumper ants cause more deaths in Tasmania than spiders, snakes, wasps, and sharks combined.[1] Sound Familiar Chris ? -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chris Sinfield Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 8:49 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy Jack Jumpers??? ??? What the heck are Jack jumpers? Chris Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223263#223263 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:59 PM PST US From: Ronald Steele Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Interesting discussion. We are probably getting off topic, but I feel it's a matter of safety as well as convenience. I understand most of the world, including Europe and Canada use GSM while we have GSM, TDMA and CDMA. I thought that one of the benefits of CDMA and TDMA is that roaming from tower to tower was supposed to be more reliable with fewer drops (The networks just increases compression until a call is ended). Maybe this works against you in this situation. At any rate my GSM phone puts an annoying buzz on the intercom every time is says hello to the network, so I keep off anyway. Cheers, Ron On Jan 6, 2009, at 10:19 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote: > > Hi Ron, > > Your conclusion is based on the very wrong assumption that the cell > phone systems used in these different places are the same. They are > not. > > Cell phone systems depend on a plan of allocating frequency > (channel) and geographic space. There are many different ways to > share the radio frequencies, and all of them are in use in the USA. > In other countries there are usually a subset of the whole group of > possible choices. > > Each different technology has different geographic limits designed > into the network. In the original cell phone "Analog" system the > frequency use and potential collision problem was similar to the > radio frequency issues in aircraft radio systems. When two > transmitters turned on the same frequency and same geographic area > at the same time there was a collision and nothing got received. > Because of line of sight transmission limitations, the frequencies > were reused in cell sites (loosely the same as towers) that were far > enough apart that there could be no collisions. An airplane that > can transmit to both of these physically separate sites defeats this > design. Just like with aircraft radios, you can get away with this > sometimes and get clobbered other times. It depends on whether > there is another transmitter going at the same time as yours. > > Newer, digital, technologies have new ways to share radio frequency > space while avoiding or tolerating collisions. In TDMA (Time > Division Multiple Access), messages are compressed and burst > transmitted on assigned frequencies. The compression allows several > transmitters to take turns over time without any collisions. In > CDMA (Code Division Multiple Access) a "Frequency Agile" approach is > used where each transmitter changes the frequency used after each > few bits. In this system collisions happen randomly but only for a > few bits at a time and the original message is recovered because of > an error correction code built into each message. > > Still, there is a real chance of problems when the transmitter is in > an airplane and the signal travels hundreds of miles instead of only > a few miles as it would on the ground. > > So, in reality the impact of using a cell phone in an airplane > varies on the type of cell phone used, the network technology > involved, and the local design of the actual network. If you are in > a sparsely populated area like Canada the impact is less likely to > be a problem. In other places like Europe the systems are so > limited that you don't face inter-system technology problems. I > would guess the most complicated set of different systems and heavy > population is found in the USA - at least from the point of view of > cell phone users and network providers. > > So there is more likelihood of a problem with cell phone use in an > airplane in the USA. There are just too many people and too many > cell phones too close together for this to not be an issue. > > Paul > XL getting close > do not archive > > (and yes, you guessed it, the last honest work I did before retiring > was designing cell phones.) > > > At 05:44 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote: >> I understand the reasoning here. What I don't understand is how >> this works in Europe and Canada, where it is legal to use cell >> phones in planes while the FCC insists we can't in the US. Seems >> to me either we have a very poor cellular infrastructure or the FCC >> is blowing smoke. The alternative is that they just don't care in >> Canada or Europe and I'm definitely not buying that argument. >> >> Ron > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:53 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy From: "Thruster87" The only ant that size I have seen is the one a fell on going over a fence [that was 40yrs ago] and the bugger bit me so I retaliated by stomping it 6" under the ground and it still was moving around.We call them Bull Ants. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223279#223279 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:42 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Hi Ron, I'm glad you find this interesting. I was afraid I might be getting too technical for this crowd. Give me a few more tries at remembering all this dusty stuff and I probably can come up with some really weird notions. GSM is actually a single implementation of TDMA. It is used in Europe, Asia, and now in the USA as well. There are other TDMA systems in use simultaneously in the USA. In particular, IS-54 is the one used by the last phone I designed. It is technologically very similar to GSM but totally incompatible when used on the same frequency set. The changing of a call from one tower to another is called a "Hand off". Just as it is in IFR radio use. The process is completely done by computers in the cell phone case. In the FAA case, the hand off is done with world war 2 human based technology. I don't think there is a significant difference in hand off technology between the various cell phone systems. In all cases the losing cell site asks neighboring sites to measure the signal strength it sees for the target phone. The one with the best signal gets the hand off. It is easy to imagine that a distant phone in an airplane could interfere with this process for an unsuspecting ground based user and network. Paul XL getting close do not archive At 07:37 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote: >Interesting discussion. We are probably getting off topic, but I feel >it's a matter of safety as well as convenience. I understand most of >the world, including Europe and Canada use GSM while we have GSM, TDMA >and CDMA. I thought that one of the benefits of CDMA and TDMA is that >roaming from tower to tower was supposed to be more reliable with >fewer drops (The networks just increases compression until a call is >ended). Maybe this works against you in this situation. At any rate >my GSM phone puts an annoying buzz on the intercom every time is says >hello to the network, so I keep off anyway. > >Cheers, >Ron ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:53 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Lighten up Jay. The FAA reccemends carrying a cell phone as a backup communication method. John Read CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300 Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 In a message dated 1/6/2009 11:42:52 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, jmaynard@conmicro.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: Jay Maynard On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 01:26:23PM -0500, Frank Roskind wrote: > The following link says a tower has a service area of about 10 square > miles. Using the area formula, r**2=10/pi. That implies a radius of > about 9420 feet. Thus your slant range to the tower would need to be > about 9420 feet. If there is a tower every mile that implies you could > fly to about 7800 feet above the tower height. > http://www.mobiledia.com/guides/page1.html That is only valid for a ground level station, and includes effects such as attenuation from trees and buildings and the curvature of the earth. A cell site can see a phone from much farther away if it's airborne. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml **************Stay up-to-date on the latest news - from fashion trends to celebrity break-ups and everything in between. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:25 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 11:17:06PM -0500, JohnDRead@aol.com wrote: > Lighten up Jay. The FAA reccemends carrying a cell phone as a backup > communication method. In an emergency? Sure, anything goes. Lost comm, especially when IFR, is an emergency. Under normal circumstances? No way. Just because it might be cool? Get real. Paul's postings this evening about the reasons why using a cellphone in flight is a Bad Idea are right on (as one would expect from someone who actually knows about the subject, deep down, from having designed the things). My cellphone, and that of my passenger, gets turned off before taxi, and stays off until after landing, not only because I want no part of that annoying buzz, but because it's the right thing to do. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:06 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Trying to stay out of this but::: One time I lost transmit but could receive ok on my radio. ATC asked and requested me to call them on my cell phone. Class "D" and thats what they wanted. SW ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Maynard" Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:25 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying > > On Tue, Jan 06, 2009 at 11:17:06PM -0500, JohnDRead@aol.com wrote: >> Lighten up Jay. The FAA reccemends carrying a cell phone as a backup >> communication method. > > In an emergency? Sure, anything goes. Lost comm, especially when IFR, is > an > emergency. Under normal circumstances? No way. Just because it might be > cool? Get real. Paul's postings this evening about the reasons why using a > cellphone in flight is a Bad Idea are right on (as one would expect from > someone who actually knows about the subject, deep down, from having > designed the things). My cellphone, and that of my passenger, gets turned > off before taxi, and stays off until after landing, not only because I > want > no part of that annoying buzz, but because it's the right thing to do. > -- > Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com > http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net > Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) > AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:18 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: unrolling the canopy From: "chris Sinfield" Roger, I have lived here for 45 years and never seen what you are talking about.. thats both city and country, but thats not to say they dont exist.. As Allan said maybe confused with bull ants??? anyway bring her over and come fly in our great country.. come on over and fly in an Xl, 701 or any other Zenith plane.. Easter is our NATFLY ( your sun and fun) Chris Do not Archive. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=223294#223294 ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:07 PM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Cell phones and flying Darn I bought a cell phone adapter for my plane from ACS. I guess I can use it on the ground. Do not archive -- Leo Gates N601Z - CH601HDS TDO Rotax 912UL Frank Roskind wrote: > The use of cellular telephones in aircraft appears to be prohibited by > FCC regulation: > http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr22.925.htm ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:06 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Internet and flying Ok the cell phone discussion is great but, let me throw this in the mix since the cell phone talk is a little off the mark. I will have a cell phone with me that will be OFF but I have a Sprint Wi Fi card that is for Internet use only that I will be using.... I understand this is splitting hairs here but someone show me in the regs where it says we can't use the Internet in an aircraft because after all I will be broadcasting over the Internet not a cell phone. This say's nothing about Internet only cards. Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes, balloons or any other type of aircraft must not be operated while such aircraft are airborne (not touching the ground). When any aircraft leaves the ground, all cellular telephones on board that aircraft must be turned off. The following notice must be posted on or near each cellular telephone installed in any aircraft: ``The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is airborne is prohibited by FCC rules, and the violation of this rule could result in suspension of service and/or a fine. The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is on the ground is subject to FAA regulations.'' Jeff do not archive **************New year...new news. 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