---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/11/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:24 AM - Fw: Canopy (jaybannist@cs.com) 2. 08:45 AM - Open canopy accident (jaybannist@cs.com) 3. 09:07 AM - Re: Open canopy accident (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 4. 09:39 AM - Re: Open canopy accident (Bill Naumuk) 5. 10:32 AM - Re: Open canopy accident (skyridersbn) 6. 10:54 AM - Re: Open canopy accident (T. Graziano) 7. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: Open canopy accident (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 8. 11:12 AM - Re: Open canopy accident (Roger & Lina Hill) 9. 02:29 PM - Chat Room Reminder (George Race) 10. 06:04 PM - Some videos of us flying (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 11. 10:14 PM - Re: Replace Aileron Controls (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com) 12. 10:48 PM - Re: Open canopy accident. Also in case of engine out landings. (Gary Gower) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:34 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Fwd: Canopy From: jaybannist@cs.com Chris, I tried sending this directly to you, but it got bounced both times.? Not sure what the problem is. -----Original Message----- From: jaybannist@cs.com Sent: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 9:02 am Subject: Canopy Chris, Making the canopy was, no doubt, the most frustrating part of the whole build process. I had three different sets of instructions for canopy construction, none of which were complete nor very clear.? Very, very confusing. ?? My advise:? Study everything you have on canopy construction.? Become VERY familiar with it.? Think it through.? Then get with it. Hardest things to do: Bending the lower frame rails to fit the curvature of the upper longeron of the fuselage. Hard to do, but you can do it. Curving the inside rail faring (6C3-5) by stretching the flange.? I thought I would never get this one done.? When I got the stretching and curving right, I had a piece of aluminum that fit but it looked horrible.? I made it "purty" with epoxy body putty.? I now know that the secret is to only pound on the back or under side of the flange with the exposed surface against a steel plate. Verifying or correcting the curvature of the tubular bows.? I didn't use plywood for this operation.? I used some of the large, heavy corrugated cardboard that came in the ZAC packing crates.? It serves the same purpose and is much easier to cut and re-cut than plywood. I made them fit the curve with the coordinates shown on the drawings.? I cut them to length (a little long) and began the process of checking the bows against the canopy bubble.? I used a Dremel with a cutoff wheel to cut the slot in the tube that is welded to the frame rail. Fit, mark, cut, fit, mark, cut unitl it is right.? Same with the curvature. You will have to cut a big notch in the edge of the bubble to clear the operator device.? When you start to drill and cleco the outside fairing and the bubble, stay clear of this notch.? I drilled a hole very close to it and promptly forgot about it.? It was several months after the construction that I again clecoed the bubble to the frame for final fastening.? When I put a cleco in that hole close to the notch, I got a crack.? Every time I tried to stop drill it, the crack ran a little further.? Again, I now know to stop a crack, you drill just beyond the end of the crack.? In the end, I was able to install a plastic vent that totally eliminated the crack. Locating the striker stud is critical.? Take your time and get it right. Adjusting the cable was a real puzzle to me, but I got it done.? I'm not real satisfied with it, but I can't do anything with it now without tearing the whole thing apart. Work with this adjustment until you are completely satisfied and everything works as it should.? There is no going back once the canopy is complete. Installing the gas spring is hard, and drilling those holes in the studs for the tiny cotter pins is trying. Once you have the holes drilled, use a larger bit to slightly bevel the edges of the hole.? That will make inseting the cotter much easier. At first I had trouble with unlatching (panicsville!).? I put the slot on the inside to actuate the latch lever, but I also put holes on the outside for the same thing.? A good spraying of powered graphite lubricant into the latch mechanism made everything work. Let me know if you have questions. - Good Luck and stay cool ! Jay Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:45:25 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Open canopy accident From: jaybannist@cs.com Friends, I have been flying about thirty years. I have survived four engine stoppages , two on takeoff, one a broken crank at cruise; and a crash. I didn =99t just fall off a turnip truck.=C2- Believe me, when you are faced with death, you are not thinking about what a Monday morning peer review might s ay about your performance. You are intent on saving your life. You do not an alyze the situation.=C2- You react in whatever manner and with whatever me thods you have at your disposal.=C2- Your survival instinct and training a re your only resources.=C2- Facing death is not an academic experience. It is purely visceral. =C2- If your canopy pops open in flight, it will be a different situation and a d ifferent experience from mine. It is not something you can train for.=C2- Other than =9Cstay calm and fly the airplane=9D, NO ONE can tell you what to do or how to react.=C2- You are on your own. It is YOUR life and YOU will determine the outcome. So, please.=C2- No more advise. No more second guessing.=C2- None of you were in that cockpit with me so you can't possibly know what I faced.=C2 - It is over and I did the right thing. =C2- I AM ALIVE. Jay Bannister ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:42 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Open canopy accident Jay, If you don't want anyone to comment on it don't bring up what happened to you. I had pics of someone flying with the Canopy open and he just had to ap ply more power and fly the plane. I can't see how the 601 you were flying could be any different than the thousands that were built exactly like yours. And I now know of 3 others that have landed with them open so it will fly if you don't get behind the plane, even ZAC says it will. There is no way for you to take this any way but personal so why bring it u p on the list because it just upsets you and what's the point in that. As you can see in the photo's this plane had a nose up attitude and landed without incident with more power applied .. Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 167 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 60 Hrs (corrected) _www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com) _www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com) _www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com) Do not archive Friends, I have been flying about thirty years. I have survived four engine stoppages, two on takeoff, one a broken crank at cruise; and a crash. I did n=99t just fall off a turnip truck. Believe me, when you are faced with death, you ar e not thinking about what a Monday morning peer review might say about your performance. You are intent on saving your life. You do not analyze the sit uation. You react in whatever manner and with whatever methods you have at your disposal. Your survival instinct and training are your only resources. Fa cing death is not an academic experience. It is purely visceral. If your canopy pops open in flight, it will be a different situation and a different experience from mine. It is not something you can train for. Oth er than =9Cstay calm and fly the airplane=9D, NO ONE can tell you what to do or how to react. You are on your own. It is YOUR life and YOU will determine the outcome. So, please. No more advise. No more second guessing. None of you were in that cockpit with me so you can't possibly know what I faced. It is over a nd I did the right thing. I AM ALIVE. Jay Bannister Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs _www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/) _www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/) _www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/) Do not archive **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! ttp://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26b cd=De cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:23 AM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Open canopy accident All- Single pilot. Factor in W+B. Bill do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Afterfxllc@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 12:06 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Open canopy accident Jay, If you don't want anyone to comment on it don't bring up what happened to you. I had pics of someone flying with the Canopy open and he just had to apply more power and fly the plane. I can't see how the 601 you were flying could be any different than the thousands that were built exactly like yours. And I now know of 3 others that have landed with them open so it will fly if you don't get behind the plane, even ZAC says it will. There is no way for you to take this any way but personal so why bring it up on the list because it just upsets you and what's the point in that. As you can see in the photo's this plane had a nose up attitude and landed without incident with more power applied . Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 167 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 60 Hrs (corrected) www.aeroliteproducts.com www.project601xl.com www.aerolite.camstreams.com Do not archive Friends, I have been flying about thirty years. I have survived four engine stoppages, two on takeoff, one a broken crank at cruise; and a crash. I didn=99t just fall off a turnip truck. Believe me, when you are faced with death, you are not thinking about what a Monday morning peer review might say about your performance. You are intent on saving your life. You do not analyze the situation. You react in whatever manner and with whatever methods you have at your disposal. Your survival instinct and training are your only resources. Facing death is not an academic experience. It is purely visceral. If your canopy pops open in flight, it will be a different situation and a different experience from mine. It is not something you can train for. Other than =9Cstay calm and fly the airplane=9D, NO ONE can tell you what to do or how to react. You are on your own. It is YOUR life and YOU will determine the outcome. So, please. No more advise. No more second guessing. None of you were in that cockpit with me so you can't possibly know what I faced. It is over and I did the right thing. I AM ALIVE. Jay Bannister Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs www.aeroliteproducts.com www.project601xl.com www.aerolite.camstreams.com Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- A Good Credit S5855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/defaul t.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAUDBAQEAwUEBAQFBQUGBwwIBwcHBw8LCwkMEQ8SEhEP ERETFhwXExQaFRERGCEYGh0dHx8fExciJCIeJBweHx7/2wBDAQUFBQcGBw4ICA4eFBEUHh4eHh4e Hh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh4eHh7/wAARCAB/AKoDASIA AhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQA AAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3 ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWm 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DGfShGmBBdQwPTGOKdgNJJCwwvPY5OajZpc4BYAeg6VUEoOGwyD2PWp1lbG1gefQ0XHcWSd4xjcr H34qNpC2csuPY1XvkOfMADLVZZGGSCyAHPynpTswbL6BmPyyKw98GpxJgYJH/fNUUnYAbstuOPmO ad56/wB1/wDP41Ooj//Z ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:43 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Open canopy accident From: "skyridersbn" Mr Garrett, What you don't seem to understand is that Jay has possibly posted to the wrong forum. I believe he is posting to a response from the Zenith 601 forum, correct Jay? (Isn't that the forum you are banned from Mr Garrett?) Either way, I found your reply to Jay as being very crass and without any compassion. You wasn't there so you have NO CLUE as to what to do or what should have been done differently. Each and every circumstance is different. Sure the POH can give you a possible corrective course of action, but NOTHING is for certain and since you wasn't there, you have no idea as to what you should do or what you would have done differently. Why is it that you seemed to want to chastise Jay for mentioning it? All I can say to end this mess is THANK GOD Jay and his CFI II was able to get the plane on the ground. I'll leave you with this one final thought Mr Garrett - My father used to tell me, "If you can't say anything nice to someone, it's just best to keep your mouth SHUT and your eyes and ears OPEN. You learn more that way". :) -------- Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved) CH650 (Converted from CH601XL) Starting fuselage will be Corvair Powered Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224067#224067 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:03 AM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Open canopy accident Jay, I'm glad you will be able to enjoy the sky again in your XL. I believe that under the circumstances, most pilots, including me, would have reduced power if the canopy opened and the nose pitched extremely nose down at pattern altitude. It would seem to be the correct response. Based on your experience, I will annotate my POH to try full power if the situation should ever happen to me. I have the "old" style latch and have taken off with one side not completely closed, although still attached by the latch safety detent. - you know it by hearing increased air noise when you throttle back.. Hope to never have a fully open canopy in flight, but your experience may lead to a more happy ending for others. At the least, it makes us more aware to carefully check the canopy latches before takeoff. Tony Graziano 601XL/Jab3300; 460 really enjoyable hrs; N493TG Buchanan, Tn ----- Original Message ----- From: jaybannist@cs.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 10:43 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Open canopy accident Friends, I have been flying about thirty years. I have survived four engine stoppages, two on takeoff, one a broken crank at cruise; and a crash. I didn=99t just fall off a turnip truck. Believe me, when you are faced with death, you are not thinking about what a Monday morning peer review might say about your performance. You are intent on saving your life. You do not analyze the situation. You react in whatever manner and with whatever methods you have at your disposal. Your survival instinct and training are your only resources. Facing death is not an academic experience. It is purely visceral. If your canopy pops open in flight, it will be a different situation and a different experience from mine. It is not something you can train for. Other than =9Cstay calm and fly the airplane=9D, NO ONE can tell you what to do or how to react. You are on your own. It is YOUR life and YOU will determine the outcome. So, please. No more advise. No more second guessing. None of you were in that cockpit with me so you can't possibly know what I faced. It is over and I did the right thing. I AM ALIVE. Jay Bannister ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:39 AM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Open canopy accident Larry, I really wasn't trying to throw stones at Jay I was simply trying to inform folks that the 601 can be flown with the Canopy open and not to freak out if it happens and pics don't lie. So if Jay or you think I was somehow directing it directly at them so be it. I just know that if anyone brings up that it can be flown with it open Jay gets upset so why comment on it? I to am glad he didn't get hurt and walked away and it is true that the 601 in the pic's wasn't a AMD and it didn't have a 0-200 and it had different color paint but I still stand behind what I said and that is that if the aircraft wasn't over gross and was within proper CG it should have been stable with the canopy open provide the plane didn't get too slow. I'm not even gonna comment on your rudeness though Mr. Hursh Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs _www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/) _www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/) _www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/) Do not archive Mr Garrett, What you don't seem to understand is that Jay has possibly posted to the wrong forum. I believe he is posting to a response from the Zenith 601 forum, correct Jay? (Isn't that the forum you are banned from Mr Garrett?) Either way, I found your reply to Jay as being very crass and without any compassion. You wasn't there so you have NO CLUE as to what to do or what should have been done differently. Each and every circumstance is different. Sure the POH can give you a possible corrective course of action, but NOTHING is for certain and since you wasn't there, you have no idea as to what you should do or what you would have done differently. Why is it that you seemed to want to chastise Jay for mentioning it? All I can say to end this mess is THANK GOD Jay and his CFI II was able to get the plane on the ground. I'll leave you with this one final thought Mr Garrett - My father used to tell me, "If you can't say anything nice to someone, it's just best to keep your mo! uth SHUT and your eyes and ears OPEN. You learn more that way". :) -------- Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved) CH650 (Converted from CH601XL) Starting fuselage will be Corvair Powered **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:12:32 AM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Open canopy accident Jay; Being a fellow survivor of a forced landing after my new prop broke off my 601, I can understand what you are saying and I have to agree with your advice to stay calm and fly the plane. And that's not just my opinion either, as I noticed a statistic (while reading Stick and Rudder) that about 75% of the time, when a pilot is killed in a forced landing it is because of LOSS OF CONTROL. What ????? Yes that's right, the pilot dies because he losses control of the plane. It's that simple. Don't' loose control, and you probably wont' die, you will just land like us. My advice to all of you is to practice power off landings, get use to flying with no power, keeping the speed up and the noise down and don't make any radical wing banks or quick panicky stick movements. Just work the problem and fly the plane. It sounds simple, but until you have lost power and are coming down, you probably don't know how hard it is to keep your head on flying and not on what might happen to you when you touch the ground. Force landings are something you can train for, so do it and don't just stick your head in the sand and say; it won't happen to me. (You might also try flying a combat flight simulator, there is nothing like being shot down 1000 times...) Finally, Jay and I survived, and so can you, just fly the plane and get it into your head that your going down, so accept it and just fly the plane and if you DON'T' loose control of your self, and the plane, your probably going to be fine. Roger Hill _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist@cs.com Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 10:44 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Open canopy accident Friends, I have been flying about thirty years. I have survived four engine stoppages, two on takeoff, one a broken crank at cruise; and a crash. I didn't just fall off a turnip truck. Believe me, when you are faced with death, you are not thinking about what a Monday morning peer review might say about your performance. You are intent on saving your life. You do not analyze the situation. You react in whatever manner and with whatever methods you have at your disposal. Your survival instinct and training are your only resources. Facing death is not an academic experience. It is purely visceral. If your canopy pops open in flight, it will be a different situation and a different experience from mine. It is not something you can train for. Other than "stay calm and fly the airplane", NO ONE can tell you what to do or how to react. You are on your own. It is YOUR life and YOU will determine the outcome. So, please. No more advise. No more second guessing. None of you were in that cockpit with me so you can't possibly know what I faced. It is over and I did the right thing. I AM ALIVE. Jay Bannister _____ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:23 PM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Chat Room Reminder Please join us for the Monday evening chat room starting around 8:00 PM Eastern Time. www.mykitairplane.com/chat/ George Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:09 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Some videos of us flying After switching from the front starter kit to the Aerolite rear system we flew from Louisville Ky to spend the night with Bill Clapp then on to Englewood Fl. The flight was great. Here are the #'s Voltage was 14 volts steady Oil pressure was steady 40 lbs Cht's were 125-130 steady and 200-225 climb Egt 1050 steady Oil temp 60 degrees OAT were 255 before the cooler and 190-200 after cooler (with my new fiberglass baffles installed but had some air loss so should see 10 degree drop after sealing.) Here are some youtube links _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyx2nalW9gs_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyx2nalW9gs) _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC4fF0uTuxQ_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC4fF0uTuxQ) _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEbz-AK3YU0_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEbz-AK3YU0) _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JPnUcicz7k_ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JPnUcicz7k) Jeff Garrett Louisville Ky. 601XL N962T Aerolite Corvair 90% 601XL N524B Aerolite Corvair 155 Hrs 601XL N2257 Aerolite Corvair 225 Hrs _www.aeroliteproducts.com_ (http://www.aeroliteproducts.com/) _www.project601xl.com_ (http://www.project601xl.com/) _www.aerolite.camstreams.com_ (http://www.aerolite.camstreams.com/) Do not archive **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:44 PM PST US From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Replace Aileron Controls Fellows 601XL Builders and Flyers. Well, I finally finished up on removing the cables from my XL ailerons and replacing them with push pull tubes. Total cost was about $ 100. and took about a whole weekend to complete. Sure would have been easier to install them while building. I made a test flight Saturday morning and I was very pleased with the results. Control is quicker and more solid to the touch. At slow flight, in the pattern and steep turns it was more responsive. At greater speeds the ailerons were about as stiff and heavy as they ever were. I went up to 2,500 feet and took her up to 155 mph and gave her some shakes trying to see if a flutter could be caused and nothing. Lastly, the weigh difference is the push/pull rod system weighs 14.2 ounces more than the wire system. I didn't write up what I did or the materials nor have I taken any photos, but if a ground swell of interest and excitement occurs along with a bunch of pledges to buy me beer at Sun N Fun Bar B Q this spring I might be persuaded to put together an "How & What". Best regards, Bill of Georgia **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:26 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Open canopy accident. Also in case of engine out landings. Hello Roger (and list), - I just want to add a little advise (personal experience 3 engine out landin gs with 2 cycle engines in previos "Fat Ultralighs",- (in one case-was fuel finished, with 45 mph head wind, 60 mph cruise,-no way to make it to destination, to high the mountains around to return, "Gethomeitis").-- - All of us get nervous when "gliding" without engine (cant imagine a pilot i n a Pitts). This feeling is perfectly normal, even to "Rambo" and Swecheneger (what eve r is the spelling:-).- The more we get close to the land (and the rougher it looks)- the more ne rvous we start feeling.- Fight this attitude, you can make it.-- - Please dont level and/or flare too high,- fight this instict, or the plan e will stall and there is where the control looses and G's increase...- - This is a mayor statistical cause of severe damage and death. - Also dont think on saving the airplane (it happens "all this years and mone y sindrome"), will make you stall it and the damage will be worse...- Fly it to the ground even if it looks (from the cabin) like a Kamikase pilot : -) Practice emergencies and if possible take a few hours in Gliders,- Yes th ey have better LD and spoilers,- but is a good training. - Hope this helps - Saludos Gary Gower. Here we have- a local Club named (translated) "Survivors of Engine Out La ndings Club".- I am a 3 star member (with 3 landings). We say is So Exclusive that we Dont Want any new members in it :-) Our Motto:- "Fly Safe, Preflight and Mantain your airplane properly". --- On Sun, 1/11/09, Roger & Lina Hill wrote: From: Roger & Lina Hill Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Open canopy accident Jay; - Being a fellow survivor of a forced landing after my new prop broke off my 601, I can understand what you are saying and I have to agree with your adv ice to stay calm and fly the plane.- And that=92s not just my opinion eit her, as I noticed a statistic (while reading Stick and Rudder) that about 7 5% of the time, when a pilot is killed in a forced landing it is because of LOSS OF CONTROL. What ?????- Yes that=92s right, the pilot dies because he losses control of the plane. It=92s that simple.- Don=92t=92 loose con trol, and you probably wont=92 die, you will just land like us. - My advice to all of you is to practice power off landings, get use to flyin g with no power, keeping the speed up and the noise down and don=92t make a ny radical wing banks or quick panicky stick movements. Just work the probl em and fly the plane.- It sounds simple, but until you have lost power an d are coming down, you probably don=92t know how hard it is to keep your he ad on flying and not on what might happen to you when you touch the ground. Force landings are something you can train for, so do it and don=92t just stick your head in the sand and say; it won=92t happen to me. - (You might also try flying a combat flight simulator, there is nothing like being shot down 1000 times=85..) - Finally, Jay and I survived, and so can you, just fly the plane and get it into your head that -your going down, so accept it and just fly the plane and if you DON=92T=92 loose control of your self, and the plane, your prob ably going to be fine. - Roger Hill - - - From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist@cs.com Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 10:44 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Open canopy accident - Friends, I have been flying about thirty years. I have survived four engine stoppage s, two on takeoff, one a broken crank at cruise; and a crash. I didn=92t ju st fall off a turnip truck.- Believe me, when you are faced with death, y ou are not thinking about what a Monday morning peer review might say about your performance. You are intent on saving your life. You do not analyze t he situation.- You react in whatever manner and with whatever methods you have at your disposal.- Your survival instinct and training are your onl y resources.- Facing death is not an academic experience. It is purely vi sceral. - If your canopy pops open in flight, it will be a different situation and a different experience from mine. It is not something you can train for.- O ther than =93stay calm and fly the airplane=94, NO ONE can tell you what to do or how to react.- You are on your own. It is YOUR life and YOU will d etermine the outcome. So, please.- No more advise. No more second guessing.- None of you were in that cockpit with me so you can't possibly know what I faced.- It is over and I did the right thing. - I AM ALIVE. Jay Bannister Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com - -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhttp://forums.matronic s.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution - =0A=0A=0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.