Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:33 AM - Re: CLEANING AND FILLING DENTS (Beckman, Rick)
2. 01:29 PM - Re: a gentle suggestion (roger lambert)
3. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (John Davis)
4. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
5. 01:52 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (steve)
6. 02:36 PM - Re: a gentle suggestion (Gig Giacona)
7. 02:49 PM - Re: a gentle suggestion (Gig Giacona)
8. 03:08 PM - Re: a gentle suggestion (Sabrina)
9. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (Roger & Lina Hill)
10. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (Roger & Lina Hill)
11. 04:09 PM - Re: CLEANING AND FILLING DENTS (Bill Naumuk)
12. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (Bob Collins)
13. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (steve)
14. 04:54 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (steve)
Message 1
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| Subject: | CLEANING AND FILLING DENTS |
Rick-
I'm not talking about filling potholes.
I built my outboards 3 years ago and was so disappointed with my
tips I was ready to commit hari-kari. The gap between the aluminum
leading edge and the fiberglass tip is what I'm talking about. The
wing's in a cradle- took the picture laying on my side. The tips haven't
been riveted yet, so the gap might decrease.
No matter the severity- what filler's going to have the best chance
of staying put?
Bill
That does not look that foreboding. There is,
also, a filler that has fiberglass strands in the mix. It is used just
like Bondo or any of the other fillers, except it is a little tougher.
If you use this, you should apply it by spreading it in one direction
only, so as to "line up" the fibers for more strength. At least that is
what I was told/ Seems to work pretty good. That area in your picture is
not even close to being a moving or flexing part, so any of the fillers
would probably do just fine. Just be sure to get it as smooth as you
want the finished look. Any scratches will show in the final finish.
Rick
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | re: a gentle suggestion |
Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in experimental
airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you don't kow where to
look. Try looking at this one for starters:
http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html.
This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would have to
look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or the plaintiff"
s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough search. If you don't
want to know or protect yourself, fine.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: re: a gentle suggestion |
Hi Roger,
The accident listed on the website isn't against an experimental
aircraft builder but rather by a builders wife against EAA and the
sponsors of the airshow that her husband visited when he had his accident.
Not saying there aren't any suits against hombeuilders but this isn't
one of them.
John
roger lambert wrote:
> Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in
> experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you
> don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters:
> http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html.
> This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would
> have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or
> the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough
> search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine.
> *
>
>
> *
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: re: a gentle suggestion |
That has nothing to do with the airplane. No one has ever been awarded any
money from a exp. aircraft that was sold and then crashed... and this thread is
getting old and my finger is hurting from having to hit the delete key so
much so I think I might have to sue you for injury to my finger if you keep up
these posts.
Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in experimental
airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you don't kow where to
look. Try looking at this one for starters:
_http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html_
(http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html) . This comes up with even a cursory
word search on the web. You would have to look in every county in every state
where a crash occurred or the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order
to do a thorough search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine.
**************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499.
net/clk;211531132;33070124;e)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: re: a gentle suggestion |
>From the EAA, Only one judgement was ever brought on an experimental
builder. And that was actually for a faulty fuel valve, which caused
John Denvers death.
Homebuilders dont have enough assets to go after.
Lawyers want deep pockets. I aint got nun..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: John Davis
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion
Hi Roger,
The accident listed on the website isn't against an experimental
aircraft builder but rather by a builders wife against EAA and the
sponsors of the airshow that her husband visited when he had his
accident.
Not saying there aren't any suits against hombeuilders but this isn't
one of them.
John
roger lambert wrote:
Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in
experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you
don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters:
http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html
. This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would
have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or
the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough
search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: a gentle suggestion |
I never said that suits weren't filed in EXP aircraft accidents. What I said is
that I've yet to be able to find a suit where the original amateur builder was
found at fault when a later owner was injured. And I've looked and no you don't
have to contact every single jurisdiction to research this stuff. It is available
through services like Lexis. And I will repeat, if you think you know
of such a case please give me something dates, N# names, location (probably any
2 will do) and I will research it and post the results.
The well known case you cited is a perfect example. They went after who they thought
the deep pockets were and those did not include the builder of the plane.
He was not even named in the suit. (Not that he would have had any liability
had they tried.)
In our wonderful system you can sue anyone for anything. Yak, I could sue you because
this thread has hurt my feelings. But to have any chance of winning first
I need to find a lawyer that thinks he is going to make some money off of it
then he and I have to prove that your actions have damaged me in some way. Neither
of which I can do.
Being concerned about lawsuits is a reality in this day and age. Limiting the happiness
in your life (and putting an airplane that I built into a crusher would
qualify as limiting my happiness) because of that fear is not, in my opinion,
the proper way to deal with it and a really crappy way to live.
yak52 wrote:
> Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters: http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html (http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html). This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228538#228538
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: a gentle suggestion |
And even that one was against the maker of the fuel valve not the amature builder.
notsew_evets(at)frontiern wrote:
> From the EAA, Only one judgement was ever brought on an experimental builder.
And that was actually for a faulty fuel valve, which caused John Denvers
death.
> Homebuilders dont have enough assets to go after.
> Lawyers want deep pockets. I aint got nun..
>
> SW
>
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228539#228539
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: a gentle suggestion |
Gig,
Falcon has had none. (Would not insure me for in motion coverage.)
Avemco has had two. (Does insure me and my experimental.)
AIG YES, how many? No longer in that business. (Has insured me and my C150 for
several years but will not insure "light" experimentals, will insure my "heavy"
experimental craft once I turn 18.)
The Las Vegas Velocity builder may or may not have sold the aircraft before it
was flown. Don't know the insurance carrier. Do know that he has a lawyer.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228543#228543
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: a gentle suggestion |
Speaking of insurance companies. If you make a major change to your
experimental, one that requires the FAA be notified and fly off hours
to be assigned, but you don't do that. Your insurance company may not pay
your claim in the event of an accident (it's happened before according to
one web site I visited).
Roger
p.s. a "major change" can be something as small as changing your fuel system
pluming.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 5:08 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: a gentle suggestion
Gig,
Falcon has had none. (Would not insure me for in motion coverage.)
Avemco has had two. (Does insure me and my experimental.)
AIG YES, how many? No longer in that business. (Has insured me and my C150
for several years but will not insure "light" experimentals, will insure my
"heavy" experimental craft once I turn 18.)
The Las Vegas Velocity builder may or may not have sold the aircraft before
it was flown. Don't know the insurance carrier. Do know that he has a
lawyer.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228543#228543
Message 10
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| Subject: | re: a gentle suggestion |
How did the fuel valve cause his John denvers death? I thought he ran out of
gas and couldn't find the fuel valve (to switch to reserve) as it was behind
his seat or something.
Roger
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 3:50 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion
>From the EAA, Only one judgement was ever brought on an experimental
builder. And that was actually for a faulty fuel valve, which caused John
Denvers death.
Homebuilders dont have enough assets to go after.
Lawyers want deep pockets. I aint got nun..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: John Davis <mailto:johnd@data-tech.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion
Hi Roger,
The accident listed on the website isn't against an experimental aircraft
builder but rather by a builders wife against EAA and the sponsors of the
airshow that her husband visited when he had his accident.
Not saying there aren't any suits against hombeuilders but this isn't one of
them.
John
roger lambert wrote:
Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in experimental
airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you don't kow where to
look. Try looking at this one for starters:
http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html.
This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would have to
look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or the plaintiff"
s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough search. If you don't
want to know or protect yourself, fine.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Zenith-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref
"http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: CLEANING AND FILLING DENTS |
Rick-
I think I have some of the stuff you're talking about, and if you
don't get it right the first time it's stuck, and you're stuck because
you can't sand it.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Beckman, Rick
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:28 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CLEANING AND FILLING DENTS
Rick-
I'm not talking about filling potholes.
I built my outboards 3 years ago and was so disappointed with my
tips I was ready to commit hari-kari. The gap between the aluminum
leading edge and the fiberglass tip is what I'm talking about. The
wing's in a cradle- took the picture laying on my side. The tips haven't
been riveted yet, so the gap might decrease.
No matter the severity- what filler's going to have the best
chance of staying put?
Bill
That does not look that foreboding. There is,
also, a filler that has fiberglass strands in the mix. It is used just
like Bondo or any of the other fillers, except it is a little tougher.
If you use this, you should apply it by spreading it in one direction
only, so as to "line up" the fibers for more strength. At least that is
what I was told/ Seems to work pretty good. That area in your picture is
not even close to being a moving or flexing part, so any of the fillers
would probably do just fine. Just be sure to get it as smooth as you
want the finished look. Any scratches will show in the final finish.
Rick
Do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: re: a gentle suggestion |
Roger,
Where is the head of this thread? I can't find the message that you are
apparently commenting on.
Bob C
roger lambert wrote:
> Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in
> experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you
> don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters:
> http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html.
> This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would
> have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or
> the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough
> search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: re: a gentle suggestion |
Yep. Ol John Denver could not reach the valve to switch tanks.
Somehow, as in all law suits, the valve was listed as the cause. No
mention of who and how it was installed.
If you look at aviation actions, you will see listed engine, wheels,
paint and whoever had "something" to do with the aircraft.
Even pilot.....
Go figure
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger & Lina Hill
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion
How did the fuel valve cause his John denvers death? I thought he ran
out of gas and couldn't find the fuel valve (to switch to reserve) as it
was behind his seat or something.
Roger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 3:50 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion
From the EAA, Only one judgement was ever brought on an experimental
builder. And that was actually for a faulty fuel valve, which caused
John Denvers death.
Homebuilders dont have enough assets to go after.
Lawyers want deep pockets. I aint got nun..
SW
----- Original Message -----
From: John Davis
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion
Hi Roger,
The accident listed on the website isn't against an experimental
aircraft builder but rather by a builders wife against EAA and the
sponsors of the airshow that her husband visited when he had his
accident.
Not saying there aren't any suits against hombeuilders but this
isn't one of them.
John
roger lambert wrote:
Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in
experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you
don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters:
http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html
. This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would
have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or
the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough
search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h
ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: a gentle suggestion |
Right on.
Even if you swap the prop out for any reason you redo the flight test.....
Best not to have the propeller log in with the engine log. Have a sepersted
book for each.
Sharpen your pencil and just go fly.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger & Lina Hill" <hills@sunflower.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: a gentle suggestion
> <hills@sunflower.com>
>
>
> Speaking of insurance companies. If you make a major change to your
> experimental, one that requires the FAA be notified and fly off hours
> to be assigned, but you don't do that. Your insurance company may not pay
> your claim in the event of an accident (it's happened before according to
> one web site I visited).
>
> Roger
>
> p.s. a "major change" can be something as small as changing your fuel
> system
> pluming.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina
> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 5:08 PM
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Zenith-List: Re: a gentle suggestion
>
>
> Gig,
>
> Falcon has had none. (Would not insure me for in motion coverage.)
>
> Avemco has had two. (Does insure me and my experimental.)
>
> AIG YES, how many? No longer in that business. (Has insured me and my
> C150
> for several years but will not insure "light" experimentals, will insure
> my
> "heavy" experimental craft once I turn 18.)
>
> The Las Vegas Velocity builder may or may not have sold the aircraft
> before
> it was flown. Don't know the insurance carrier. Do know that he has a
> lawyer.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228543#228543
>
>
>
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