---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/04/09: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:33 AM - Re: CLEANING AND FILLING DENTS (Beckman, Rick) 2. 01:29 PM - Re: a gentle suggestion (roger lambert) 3. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (John Davis) 4. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (Afterfxllc@aol.com) 5. 01:52 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (steve) 6. 02:36 PM - Re: a gentle suggestion (Gig Giacona) 7. 02:49 PM - Re: a gentle suggestion (Gig Giacona) 8. 03:08 PM - Re: a gentle suggestion (Sabrina) 9. 03:51 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (Roger & Lina Hill) 10. 03:53 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (Roger & Lina Hill) 11. 04:09 PM - Re: CLEANING AND FILLING DENTS (Bill Naumuk) 12. 04:17 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (Bob Collins) 13. 04:52 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (steve) 14. 04:54 PM - Re: Re: a gentle suggestion (steve) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CLEANING AND FILLING DENTS From: "Beckman, Rick" Rick- I'm not talking about filling potholes. I built my outboards 3 years ago and was so disappointed with my tips I was ready to commit hari-kari. The gap between the aluminum leading edge and the fiberglass tip is what I'm talking about. The wing's in a cradle- took the picture laying on my side. The tips haven't been riveted yet, so the gap might decrease. No matter the severity- what filler's going to have the best chance of staying put? Bill That does not look that foreboding. There is, also, a filler that has fiberglass strands in the mix. It is used just like Bondo or any of the other fillers, except it is a little tougher. If you use this, you should apply it by spreading it in one direction only, so as to "line up" the fibers for more strength. At least that is what I was told/ Seems to work pretty good. That area in your picture is not even close to being a moving or flexing part, so any of the fillers would probably do just fine. Just be sure to get it as smooth as you want the finished look. Any scratches will show in the final finish. Rick Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:29:49 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion From: roger lambert Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters: http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html. This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:38 PM PST US From: John Davis Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion Hi Roger, The accident listed on the website isn't against an experimental aircraft builder but rather by a builders wife against EAA and the sponsors of the airshow that her husband visited when he had his accident. Not saying there aren't any suits against hombeuilders but this isn't one of them. John roger lambert wrote: > Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in > experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you > don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters: > http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html. > This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would > have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or > the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough > search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine. > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:38 PM PST US From: Afterfxllc@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion That has nothing to do with the airplane. No one has ever been awarded any money from a exp. aircraft that was sold and then crashed... and this thread is getting old and my finger is hurting from having to hit the delete key so much so I think I might have to sue you for injury to my finger if you keep up these posts. Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters: _http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html_ (http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html) . This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine. **************Great Deals on Dell Laptops. Starting at $499. net/clk;211531132;33070124;e) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:24 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion >From the EAA, Only one judgement was ever brought on an experimental builder. And that was actually for a faulty fuel valve, which caused John Denvers death. Homebuilders dont have enough assets to go after. Lawyers want deep pockets. I aint got nun.. SW ----- Original Message ----- From: John Davis To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:40 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion Hi Roger, The accident listed on the website isn't against an experimental aircraft builder but rather by a builders wife against EAA and the sponsors of the airshow that her husband visited when he had his accident. Not saying there aren't any suits against hombeuilders but this isn't one of them. John roger lambert wrote: Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters: http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html . This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:21 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: a gentle suggestion From: "Gig Giacona" I never said that suits weren't filed in EXP aircraft accidents. What I said is that I've yet to be able to find a suit where the original amateur builder was found at fault when a later owner was injured. And I've looked and no you don't have to contact every single jurisdiction to research this stuff. It is available through services like Lexis. And I will repeat, if you think you know of such a case please give me something dates, N# names, location (probably any 2 will do) and I will research it and post the results. The well known case you cited is a perfect example. They went after who they thought the deep pockets were and those did not include the builder of the plane. He was not even named in the suit. (Not that he would have had any liability had they tried.) In our wonderful system you can sue anyone for anything. Yak, I could sue you because this thread has hurt my feelings. But to have any chance of winning first I need to find a lawyer that thinks he is going to make some money off of it then he and I have to prove that your actions have damaged me in some way. Neither of which I can do. Being concerned about lawsuits is a reality in this day and age. Limiting the happiness in your life (and putting an airplane that I built into a crusher would qualify as limiting my happiness) because of that fear is not, in my opinion, the proper way to deal with it and a really crappy way to live. yak52 wrote: > Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters: http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html (http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html). This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228538#228538 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: a gentle suggestion From: "Gig Giacona" And even that one was against the maker of the fuel valve not the amature builder. notsew_evets(at)frontiern wrote: > From the EAA, Only one judgement was ever brought on an experimental builder. And that was actually for a faulty fuel valve, which caused John Denvers death. > Homebuilders dont have enough assets to go after. > Lawyers want deep pockets. I aint got nun.. > > SW > -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228539#228539 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:44 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: a gentle suggestion From: "Sabrina" Gig, Falcon has had none. (Would not insure me for in motion coverage.) Avemco has had two. (Does insure me and my experimental.) AIG YES, how many? No longer in that business. (Has insured me and my C150 for several years but will not insure "light" experimentals, will insure my "heavy" experimental craft once I turn 18.) The Las Vegas Velocity builder may or may not have sold the aircraft before it was flown. Don't know the insurance carrier. Do know that he has a lawyer. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228543#228543 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:51:34 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: a gentle suggestion Speaking of insurance companies. If you make a major change to your experimental, one that requires the FAA be notified and fly off hours to be assigned, but you don't do that. Your insurance company may not pay your claim in the event of an accident (it's happened before according to one web site I visited). Roger p.s. a "major change" can be something as small as changing your fuel system pluming. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 5:08 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: a gentle suggestion Gig, Falcon has had none. (Would not insure me for in motion coverage.) Avemco has had two. (Does insure me and my experimental.) AIG YES, how many? No longer in that business. (Has insured me and my C150 for several years but will not insure "light" experimentals, will insure my "heavy" experimental craft once I turn 18.) The Las Vegas Velocity builder may or may not have sold the aircraft before it was flown. Don't know the insurance carrier. Do know that he has a lawyer. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228543#228543 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:29 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion How did the fuel valve cause his John denvers death? I thought he ran out of gas and couldn't find the fuel valve (to switch to reserve) as it was behind his seat or something. Roger _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 3:50 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion >From the EAA, Only one judgement was ever brought on an experimental builder. And that was actually for a faulty fuel valve, which caused John Denvers death. Homebuilders dont have enough assets to go after. Lawyers want deep pockets. I aint got nun.. SW ----- Original Message ----- From: John Davis Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:40 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion Hi Roger, The accident listed on the website isn't against an experimental aircraft builder but rather by a builders wife against EAA and the sponsors of the airshow that her husband visited when he had his accident. Not saying there aren't any suits against hombeuilders but this isn't one of them. John roger lambert wrote: Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters: http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html. This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?Zenith-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:16 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: CLEANING AND FILLING DENTS Rick- I think I have some of the stuff you're talking about, and if you don't get it right the first time it's stuck, and you're stuck because you can't sand it. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Beckman, Rick To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:28 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: CLEANING AND FILLING DENTS Rick- I'm not talking about filling potholes. I built my outboards 3 years ago and was so disappointed with my tips I was ready to commit hari-kari. The gap between the aluminum leading edge and the fiberglass tip is what I'm talking about. The wing's in a cradle- took the picture laying on my side. The tips haven't been riveted yet, so the gap might decrease. No matter the severity- what filler's going to have the best chance of staying put? Bill That does not look that foreboding. There is, also, a filler that has fiberglass strands in the mix. It is used just like Bondo or any of the other fillers, except it is a little tougher. If you use this, you should apply it by spreading it in one direction only, so as to "line up" the fibers for more strength. At least that is what I was told/ Seems to work pretty good. That area in your picture is not even close to being a moving or flexing part, so any of the fillers would probably do just fine. Just be sure to get it as smooth as you want the finished look. Any scratches will show in the final finish. Rick Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:06 PM PST US From: Bob Collins Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion Roger, Where is the head of this thread? I can't find the message that you are apparently commenting on. Bob C roger lambert wrote: > Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in > experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you > don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters: > http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html. > This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would > have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or > the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough > search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:49 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion Yep. Ol John Denver could not reach the valve to switch tanks. Somehow, as in all law suits, the valve was listed as the cause. No mention of who and how it was installed. If you look at aviation actions, you will see listed engine, wheels, paint and whoever had "something" to do with the aircraft. Even pilot..... Go figure ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger & Lina Hill To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:52 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion How did the fuel valve cause his John denvers death? I thought he ran out of gas and couldn't find the fuel valve (to switch to reserve) as it was behind his seat or something. Roger ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 3:50 PM To: zenith-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion From the EAA, Only one judgement was ever brought on an experimental builder. And that was actually for a faulty fuel valve, which caused John Denvers death. Homebuilders dont have enough assets to go after. Lawyers want deep pockets. I aint got nun.. SW ----- Original Message ----- From: John Davis To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 2:40 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: a gentle suggestion Hi Roger, The accident listed on the website isn't against an experimental aircraft builder but rather by a builders wife against EAA and the sponsors of the airshow that her husband visited when he had his accident. Not saying there aren't any suits against hombeuilders but this isn't one of them. John roger lambert wrote: Please try to pay careful attention. Lawsuits are filed in experimental airplane crashes. If you didn't find any, its because you don't kow where to look. Try looking at this one for starters: http://www.plane-crash-aviation-attorneys.com/html/plane_crash_death.html . This comes up with even a cursory word search on the web. You would have to look in every county in every state where a crash occurred or the plaintiff" s lived before the accident in order to do a thorough search. If you don't want to know or protect yourself, fine. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron ics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:27 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: a gentle suggestion Right on. Even if you swap the prop out for any reason you redo the flight test..... Best not to have the propeller log in with the engine log. Have a sepersted book for each. Sharpen your pencil and just go fly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 4:50 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: a gentle suggestion > > > > Speaking of insurance companies. If you make a major change to your > experimental, one that requires the FAA be notified and fly off hours > to be assigned, but you don't do that. Your insurance company may not pay > your claim in the event of an accident (it's happened before according to > one web site I visited). > > Roger > > p.s. a "major change" can be something as small as changing your fuel > system > pluming. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sabrina > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 5:08 PM > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Zenith-List: Re: a gentle suggestion > > > Gig, > > Falcon has had none. (Would not insure me for in motion coverage.) > > Avemco has had two. (Does insure me and my experimental.) > > AIG YES, how many? No longer in that business. (Has insured me and my > C150 > for several years but will not insure "light" experimentals, will insure > my > "heavy" experimental craft once I turn 18.) > > The Las Vegas Velocity builder may or may not have sold the aircraft > before > it was flown. Don't know the insurance carrier. Do know that he has a > lawyer. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228543#228543 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.