Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:21 AM - Re: Re: Re: IFR Qualifications (Paul Mulwitz)
2. 05:48 AM - Re: Re: Re: IFR Qualifications (Jay Maynard)
3. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Re: IFR Qualifications (Jimbo)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Re: IFR Qualifications (Juan Vega)
5. 07:50 AM - Re: Re: Re: IFR Qualifications (Paul Mulwitz)
6. 09:04 AM - Re: Re: Re: IFR Qualifications (Craig Payne)
7. 09:16 AM - Re: IFR Qualifications (Gig Giacona)
8. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: Re: IFR Qualifications (Craig Payne)
9. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Re: IFR Qualifications (Jay Maynard)
10. 09:55 AM - Re: Re: Re: IFR Qualifications (MaxNr@aol.com)
11. 10:45 AM - Zodiac 650 HD? I Guess That's what I'll Call It (MHerder)
12. 04:55 PM - Re: News from Magnificent Machine (leinad)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications |
Hi Craig,
I'm afraid you still failed to cover all single
point failures on your "Dual" system.
What if the plane gets hit by lightning and all
the electrics are wiped out? For this event you
still need a VACUUM driven gyro.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 10:55 PM 2/11/2009, you wrote:
>Of course I understand the downside of losing
>one EFIS. Thats why my original response
>described dual units. For maximum reliability
>buy two different brands of EFIS that
>insulates you from seeing the same bug on both displays.
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications |
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 04:19:53AM -0800, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> What if the plane gets hit by lightning and all the electrics are wiped
> out? For this event you still need a VACUUM driven gyro.
AMD uses all electric gyros...and their aircraft have all of the lightning
protection required by the current FAR part 23. There is no vacuum pump in
my airplane. Vacuum pumps fail much, much more often than aircraft get hit
by lightning. The FAA apparently doesn't consider it a serious risk, or else
they wouldn't allow all-electric instruments in an IFR-certified aircraft.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications |
If you look at the panel of certified aircraft with "glass" panels, from Boeing
down to Cirrus, they have "steam gauge" artificial horizon, airspeed and altimeter
as backups. Maybe not technically required under the FARs, but there.
Jim
--- On Wed, 2/11/09, MaxNr@aol.com <MaxNr@aol.com> wrote:
From: MaxNr@aol.com <MaxNr@aol.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications
I read the question as:"What is the minimum equipment?" The price tag for dual
Dynon or MGL = how much? BTW, have you ever experienced a display going black
like they sometime do in the multi million dollar aircraft with plenty of electrical
power available?
Bob
**************
The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes you there. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000002)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications |
on the new ones they dont if the efis has a backup battery.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jimbo <jimandmandy@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Feb 12, 2009 9:41 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications
>
>If you look at the panel of certified aircraft with "glass" panels, from Boeing
down to Cirrus, they have "steam gauge" artificial horizon, airspeed and altimeter
as backups. Maybe not technically required under the FARs, but there.
>
>Jim
>
>--- On Wed, 2/11/09, MaxNr@aol.com <MaxNr@aol.com> wrote:
>From: MaxNr@aol.com <MaxNr@aol.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications
>To: Zenith-List@matronics.com
>Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 9:24 PM
>
>I read the question as:"What is the minimum equipment?" The price tag for dual
Dynon or MGL = how much? BTW, have you ever experienced a display going black
like they sometime do in the multi million dollar aircraft with plenty of electrical
power available?
>
>
>Bob
>
>
>**************
>The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes you there. (http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000002)
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications |
Hi Jay,
I'm going to ask you to trust me on this one. I don't want to go
into details because they are too awful for this discussion
group. There really are ways all your electrics can be absolutely
destroyed all at once. If you insist, I will inform you off list of
how this can happen.
Your point about vacuum pumps being more failure prone than electrics
is a good one but not at all related to this "Worst Case"
discussion. The point here is that it is unlikely the vacuum pump
will fail under the same circumstances all the electrics fail
too. The vacuum pump can fail every other flight, and still be the
only way to stay upright in case of a total electrical failure.
The notion of having no electric equipment working in hard IFR is a
very scary one. Without a non-electric gyro to stay upright it will
certainly be fatal.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 05:45 AM 2/12/2009, you wrote:
>AMD uses all electric gyros...and their aircraft have all of the lightning
>protection required by the current FAR part 23. There is no vacuum pump in
>my airplane. Vacuum pumps fail much, much more often than aircraft get hit
>by lightning. The FAA apparently doesn't consider it a serious risk, or else
>they wouldn't allow all-electric instruments in an IFR-certified aircraft.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications |
The vacuum is between my ears. Besides if I get hit by lightening there will
be no shortage of electricity.
-- Craig
Still do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Mulwitz
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 5:20 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications
Hi Craig,
I'm afraid you still failed to cover all single
point failures on your "Dual" system.
What if the plane gets hit by lightning and all
the electrics are wiped out? For this event you
still need a VACUUM driven gyro.
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 10:55 PM 2/11/2009, you wrote:
>Of course I understand the downside of losing
>one EFIS. That's why my original response
>described dual units. For maximum reliability
>buy two different brands of EFIS - that
>insulates you from seeing the same bug on both displays.
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: IFR Qualifications |
OK folks, there is IFR and there is IFR. I would never consider taking a 601 into
what I would consider hard IFR.
But with today's more complex airspace issues such as security TFR it isn't such
a bad idea to file IFR if you are on a cross-country trip. But to be able to
file IFR you have to be able to legally file IFR.
What it comes down to is that not all IFR flight needs super redundant back up.
It is up to the pilot to set their personal minimums for the way their aircraft
is outfitted and the WX and airspace they are flying in.
And as mentioned upthread the best peice of IFR backup in a 601 or a Citation is
probably a Garmin 496 or a 696. Kill all the other instruments in the plane
with a hammer and it is capable of getting you to safety.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229980#229980
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications |
Is there a redundant electrical supply for the electric gyros on the AMD
XLs?
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Maynard
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 04:19:53AM -0800, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> What if the plane gets hit by lightning and all the electrics are wiped
> out? For this event you still need a VACUUM driven gyro.
AMD uses all electric gyros...and their aircraft have all of the lightning
protection required by the current FAR part 23. There is no vacuum pump in
my airplane. Vacuum pumps fail much, much more often than aircraft get hit
by lightning. The FAA apparently doesn't consider it a serious risk, or else
they wouldn't allow all-electric instruments in an IFR-certified aircraft.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications |
On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 10:16:57AM -0700, Craig Payne wrote:
> Is there a redundant electrical supply for the electric gyros on the AMD
> XLs?
Yes. There's a second battery, charged through a diode off the alternator,
and manually activated. In the event of total electrical failure, you switch
off the master and switch on the alternate battery. It powers the gyros,
only, for about two hours. It's not connected to the avionics or,
unfortunately, the Dynon, but it'll keep you upright long enough to land.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Re: IFR Qualifications |
Come on. Rich asked what was the minimum equipment to launch IFR into
clearing VFR conditions. It was my idea to also address the "doomsday" scenario
to
get you down safely in deteriorating conditions. Yes, glass cockpits are
mandated to install backup analog instruments. The standby Attitude Display Indicator
(ADI) in an installation that I am familiar with cost almost as much as a
Lexus. In a 2 1/4 inch instrument, you also have T&B, VOR/LOC with glide slope
and more.
If there is any chance of lightning, please keep the 601XLs on the ground.
Bob
Plans #6-7791
Do not archive
**************
The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at
the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes you there.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000002)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Zodiac 650 HD? I Guess That's what I'll Call It |
Gentlemen,
I am strongly considering a 650 canopy for my HD project. In addition to the roll
protection, I think that the 650 is a little easier to get in and out of bc
the roll protection makes a nice place to grab on.
I know that the fuselage is slightly narrower (maybe a few cm) from the XL/650
to the HD and I KNOW that this will take some thinking and some small modifications,
but I wanted to run this by a few folks to get your opinion and see if
there are any issues I'm not anticipating that would not be able to be conquered.
I come here for opinions since I know that there is no shortage of them here! :D
So, what am I up against? Many have fitted a tilt up xl canopy to the HD, so my
assumption is that there must be SOME way to go from xl to 650 on an HD.
--------
One Rivet at a Time!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229996#229996
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010214_164.jpg
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: News from Magnificent Machine |
Brady,
Thanks. That's a great reply. Lot's of good information for those considering
the corvair. Unrelated, could you post smaller pictures? I guess that's why
your post was stretched out a mile wide. I had to scroll back and forth a lot
to read it.
Hope things are coming together.
Dan
do not archive
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230034#230034
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