---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/05/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:26 AM - Y Stick Decision (Beckman, Rick) 2. 11:07 AM - Re: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (Juan Vega) 3. 11:07 AM - crash B.S. (Juan Vega) 4. 11:33 AM - Re: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (wade jones) 5. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (Derek Lewis) 6. 02:51 PM - Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (Gig Giacona) 7. 03:40 PM - Re: Y Stick Decision (Bill Naumuk) 8. 03:42 PM - Re: Y Stick Decision (Bill Naumuk) 9. 03:47 PM - Re: Re: Y Stick Decision (Bill Naumuk) 10. 05:59 PM - Re: crash B.S. (thesumak@aol.com) 11. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah (wade jones) 12. 07:28 PM - Re: Re: crash B.S. (purplemoon99@bellsouth.net) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Y Stick Decision From: "Beckman, Rick" Hey, Bill, nice looking panel! As for "Porker", it must be a York and not a Hamp...looks pretty lean to me!! By all means, keep on keepin' on!! Rick ABSOLUTELY Do not archive! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:34 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah I say you keep blaming the pilot until the facts are in. The problem in this society is everyone wants to blame someone else. The guy crashed on the side of a ravene, and noone knows the facts. Speculation is a fancy word for Bulls^%$t. So lets keep the B$#@#@!t to a minimum. and wait until the facts come out. Juan -----Original Message----- >From: MaxNr@aol.com >Sent: Mar 4, 2009 9:04 PM >To: Zenith-List@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah > >It breaks my heart to see that another of ours is lost. I can believe the >theory that he was avoiding the SLC Class B by deviating to the North. Its only >25 NM direct from TVY to BTF. A 15 mile deviation to the North seems >reasonable. He certainly was in radar contact and the details, including the SLC WX will >come out soon. > >This discussion of the 601XL limitations always seems to come up. The flaps >"appear" to be extended. Really? It had just hit the ground! Do you think? And >just how do we know that he was exceeding an air speed limit? And just why is >it thought that he slammed the flight controls to the stops while at cruising >speed? Has anybody actually ever seen any one do this? I have seen it only >once 45 years ago when a friend did it in the landing flare in my Champ. > >Most planes are designed to withstand the 50 foot per second wind gust at Va. >That translates to 3,000 ft per minute. This is weather that you only see in >squall lines or high winds in mountains. lets get off that full control >deflection stuff at cruising speed and recognize that weather breaks more airframes. > > >If the 601XL is so touchy in pitch, lets fix it. How about new control >geometry or an antiservo tab? Why do we live with it? Or maybe its just weather. > >Sorry about the rant. Lets stop blaming the pilot until the facts are in. I >so wanted to stay out of this. > >Bob Dingley >601XL plans building Do Not Archive > > >************** >A Good Credit Score is >700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! >%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:07:34 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Zenith-List: crash B.S. I say you keep blaming the pilot until the facts are in. The problem in this society is everyone wants to blame someone else. The guy crashed on the side of a ravene, and noone knows the facts. Speculation is a fancy word for Bulls^%$t. So lets keep the B$#@#@!t to a minimum. and wait until the facts come out. Juan ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:33:55 AM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah Where can I read about this crash. Wade Jones South Texas 601XL Franklin 0-235 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah > > I say you keep blaming the pilot until the facts are in. The problem in > this society is everyone wants to blame someone else. The guy crashed on > the side of a ravene, and noone knows the facts. Speculation is a fancy > word for Bulls^%$t. So lets keep the B$#@#@!t to a minimum. and wait > until the facts come out. > > Juan > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: MaxNr@aol.com >>Sent: Mar 4, 2009 9:04 PM >>To: Zenith-List@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah >> >>It breaks my heart to see that another of ours is lost. I can believe the >>theory that he was avoiding the SLC Class B by deviating to the North. Its >>only >>25 NM direct from TVY to BTF. A 15 mile deviation to the North seems >>reasonable. He certainly was in radar contact and the details, including >>the SLC WX will >>come out soon. >> >>This discussion of the 601XL limitations always seems to come up. The >>flaps >>"appear" to be extended. Really? It had just hit the ground! Do you think? >>And >>just how do we know that he was exceeding an air speed limit? And just why >>is >>it thought that he slammed the flight controls to the stops while at >>cruising >>speed? Has anybody actually ever seen any one do this? I have seen it only >>once 45 years ago when a friend did it in the landing flare in my Champ. >> >>Most planes are designed to withstand the 50 foot per second wind gust at >>Va. >>That translates to 3,000 ft per minute. This is weather that you only see >>in >>squall lines or high winds in mountains. lets get off that full control >>deflection stuff at cruising speed and recognize that weather breaks more >>airframes. >> >> >>If the 601XL is so touchy in pitch, lets fix it. How about new control >>geometry or an antiservo tab? Why do we live with it? Or maybe its just >>weather. >> >>Sorry about the rant. Lets stop blaming the pilot until the facts are in. >>I >>so wanted to stay out of this. >> >>Bob Dingley >>601XL plans building Do Not Archive >> >> >>************** >>A Good Credit Score is >>700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! >>%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:02 PM PST US From: "Derek Lewis" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah Wade, Here is a link http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=5750646 Derek Lewis DO NOT ARCHIVE -- "wade jones" wrote: Where can I read about this crash. Wade Jones South Texas 601XL Franklin 0-235 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juan Vega" Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah > > I say you keep blaming the pilot until the facts are in. The problem in > this society is everyone wants to blame someone else. The guy crashed on > the side of a ravene, and noone knows the facts. Speculation is a fancy > word for Bulls^%$t. So lets keep the B$#@#@!t to a minimum. and wait > until the facts come out. > > Juan > > > -----Original Message----- >>From: MaxNr@aol.com >>Sent: Mar 4, 2009 9:04 PM >>To: Zenith-List@matronics.com >>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah >> >>It breaks my heart to see that another of ours is lost. I can believe the >>theory that he was avoiding the SLC Class B by deviating to the North. Its >>only >>25 NM direct from TVY to BTF. A 15 mile deviation to the North seems >>reasonable. He certainly was in radar contact and the details, including >>the SLC WX will >>come out soon. >> >>This discussion of the 601XL limitations always seems to come up. The >>flaps >>"appear" to be extended. Really? It had just hit the ground! Do you think? >>And >>just how do we know that he was exceeding an air speed limit? And just why >>is >>it thought that he slammed the flight controls to the stops while at >>cruising >>speed? Has anybody actually ever seen any one do this? I have seen it only >>once 45 years ago when a friend did it in the landing flare in my Champ. >> >>Most planes are designed to withstand the 50 foot per second wind gust at >>Va. >>That translates to 3,000 ft per minute. This is weather that you only see >>in >>squall lines or high winds in mountains. lets get off that full control >>deflection stuff at cruising speed and recognize that weather breaks more >>airframes. >> >> >>If the 601XL is so touchy in pitch, lets fix it. How about new control >>geometry or an antiservo tab? Why do we live with it? Or maybe its just >>weather. >> >>Sorry about the rant. Lets stop blaming the pilot until the facts are in. >>I >>so wanted to stay out of this. >> >>Bob Dingley >>601XL plans building Do Not Archive >> >> >>************** >>A Good Credit Score is >>700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! >>%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) > > > ____________________________________________________________ Click to become an artist and quit your boring job. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/BLSrjnxT8V1Z5oUB46dJYDMBxvYd0mc0qiEqgPsQyvNLoP050V8rrCL88mM/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:05 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah From: "Gig Giacona" wjones(at)brazoriainet.co wrote: > Where can I read about this crash. > Wade Jones South Texas > 601XL Franklin 0-235 > --- Don't waste your time. There hasn't been enough info in any of the reporting of the accident to account for the electricity you will use in reading it. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233398#233398 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:05 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Y Stick Decision You obviously know your hogs. Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Beckman, Rick To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 7:22 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Y Stick Decision Hey, Bill, nice looking panel! As for "Porker", it must be a York and not a Hamp.looks pretty lean to me!! By all means, keep on keepin' on!! Rick ABSOLUTELY Do not archive! ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:26 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Y Stick Decision Carlos- Do what one of the guys at Brampford did- build it in clecos and rivet it after it's upstairs. Take it from experience- I have more money in my garangar and tools than I have in my project. Bill Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Carlos Sa To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:35 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Y Stick Decision Yep, Michel T himself. I intend to use the same approach. The grip itself will probably be a game joystick - can you think of something that takes more punishment than that? Some examples: http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/joysticks.htm http://www.allproducts.com/ee/sanmos/joystick-l.jpg http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/joysticks/&cl=ca,en Thanks for the pictures - your project is starting to look like something that could fly... :-) I can't wait to start wok on the fuselage - but I still have to solve my space problem: I can't rivet the fuselage in my workshop (in the basement), or it won't come out. Regards Carlos 2009/3/4 Bill Naumuk Carlos- Michel T? If so, I ran into him at the Brampford fly-in. Nice guy. Made a point of introducing himself. Things are coming together. Pictures of my "Porker panel" attached. Even with a Dynon the bloody thing weighs 40+ lbs. the entire setup doesn't look like this because I put Naugahyde on the console and umpteen more gauges in the console upright. Keep on keeping on... Bill ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:47:39 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Y Stick Decision I'm using a Ray Allen. No cutting corners, my main motivation is reducing PIO. Also, I guess I am cheap. Now I only need one Ray Allen grip! (Already in the bag) Bill Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gig Giacona" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 11:39 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Y Stick Decision > > I had a both a Saitek and Logitec joystick come apart on me when used as a > game joystick. I'd never put one in a plane. > > -------- > W.R. "Gig" Giacona > 601XL Under Construction > See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=233294#233294 > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:51 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: RE: crash B.S. From: thesumak@aol.com I agree with the notion of personal responsibility Juan.? I also understand that pilot error is a common contributor to aircraft accidents.? However, your counsel that we should assume pilot ineptitude before we get the facts is to my mind speculative BS no better than the speculative BS about the aircraft that you see fit to lecture us about over and over and over again. I may be alone in this, but I would suggest that your brand of BS is especially inappropriate? At least the good folks at Zenith and the people on this list that have an association with the company have the ability to defend themselves against unfounded speculation about their products. Bill 601xl do not archive Juan said:? I say you keep blaming the pilot until the facts are in. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:22 PM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah Thanks Derek Wade Jones South Texas 601XL Franklin 0-235 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Lewis" Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 3:41 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah > > Wade, > > Here is a link > http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=5750646 > > Derek Lewis > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > -- "wade jones" wrote: > > Where can I read about this crash. > Wade Jones South Texas > 601XL Franklin 0-235 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Juan Vega" > To: ; > Sent: Thursday, March 05, 2009 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah > > >> >> I say you keep blaming the pilot until the facts are in. The problem in >> this society is everyone wants to blame someone else. The guy crashed on >> the side of a ravene, and noone knows the facts. Speculation is a fancy >> word for Bulls^%$t. So lets keep the B$#@#@!t to a minimum. and wait >> until the facts come out. >> >> Juan >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>>From: MaxNr@aol.com >>>Sent: Mar 4, 2009 9:04 PM >>>To: Zenith-List@matronics.com >>>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Re: TV news reports 601XL down in Utah >>> >>>It breaks my heart to see that another of ours is lost. I can believe the >>>theory that he was avoiding the SLC Class B by deviating to the North. >>>Its >>>only >>>25 NM direct from TVY to BTF. A 15 mile deviation to the North seems >>>reasonable. He certainly was in radar contact and the details, including >>>the SLC WX will >>>come out soon. >>> >>>This discussion of the 601XL limitations always seems to come up. The >>>flaps >>>"appear" to be extended. Really? It had just hit the ground! Do you >>>think? >>>And >>>just how do we know that he was exceeding an air speed limit? And just >>>why >>>is >>>it thought that he slammed the flight controls to the stops while at >>>cruising >>>speed? Has anybody actually ever seen any one do this? I have seen it >>>only >>>once 45 years ago when a friend did it in the landing flare in my Champ. >>> >>>Most planes are designed to withstand the 50 foot per second wind gust at >>>Va. >>>That translates to 3,000 ft per minute. This is weather that you only see >>>in >>>squall lines or high winds in mountains. lets get off that full control >>>deflection stuff at cruising speed and recognize that weather breaks more >>>airframes. >>> >>> >>>If the 601XL is so touchy in pitch, lets fix it. How about new control >>>geometry or an antiservo tab? Why do we live with it? Or maybe its just >>>weather. >>> >>>Sorry about the rant. Lets stop blaming the pilot until the facts are in. >>>I >>>so wanted to stay out of this. >>> >>>Bob Dingley >>>601XL plans building Do Not Archive >>> >>> >>>************** >>>A Good Credit Score is >>>700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! >>>%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) >> >> >> >> >> > > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click to become an artist and quit your boring job. > http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2231/fc/BLSrjnxT8V1Z5oUB46dJYDMBxvYd0mc0qiEqgPsQyvNLoP050V8rrCL88mM/ > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:41 PM PST US From: purplemoon99@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: RE: crash B.S. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.