Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:26 AM - Re: Re: Smashing tubing (jaybannist@cs.com)
2. 07:31 AM - Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 lb Airpl (Sabrina)
3. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 lb Airplane (Al Hays)
4. 08:06 AM - Re: D-100 Shield (Bill Naumuk)
5. 08:17 AM - Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 lb Airplane (Sabrina)
6. 09:49 AM - Re: Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 lb Airplane (Bryan Martin)
7. 11:41 AM - Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 lb Airplane (Sabrina)
8. 02:40 PM - Chat Room Reminder for "Digesters" (George Race)
9. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 lb Airplane (Juan Vega)
10. 03:02 PM - Re: Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 lb Airplane (Juan Vega)
11. 08:53 PM - Nylon For Canopy System (John Smith)
12. 09:36 PM - Re: Nylon For Canopy System (Craig Payne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Smashing tubing |
Ron & John,
Thanks for the feedback.? I have enough tubing to try both ideas.
Jay Bannister
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Lendon <rlendon@comcast.net>
I would work the metal cold. If you take two pieces of hardwood and drill part
way through the same diameter of the tube, they can be used as saddles to
control the crush of the tube.
Clamp the blocks together and drill hole. Use blocks to support the tube while
crushing in a vice.
You may need to make some adjustments for material thickness but I just wanted
to illustrate the concept.
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 lb Airpl |
Can you imagine the harm to our US fleet of 1320 pound aircraft if the Germans
test a 1041 pound aircraft to 6G at 1320 pounds and it breaks?
A major flaw in ZBAG's reasoning is their belief that ALL XLs are built equal--they
are not.
If, on the other hand you pulled a random AMD XL out of service and tested that
in flight, in a wind tunnel and to 6Gs at 1320, then you would have some testing
worth paying for.
Please keep in mind that many governments are working are on the problem... the
key now is to preach pre-flight and V speeds...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234658#234658
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 |
lb Airplane
Sabrina,
I absolutely agree that it would seem pretty easy. However, I am only
speaking up here in response because I fear someone may attempt
exactly that simple "spring loaded set of three pulleys" and suffer
unintended consequences. While I have installed and worked on quite a
few things that use spring loaded tensioning systems in cars, farm
equipment, and mechanical systems in buildings, I don't believe it
would be a safe and reliable add-on to the control cables. The
tension we adjust to or check for in pre-flight is with the aircraft
at rest. In flight, those cables might be subject to quite a variance
of forces. I'd worry that, among other things, a potential flutter
problem could be exacerbated by the spring. I suspect properly
designing a spring loaded auto-tensioning system by qualified
engineers and dynamicists would be cost-prohibitive. Of course, I'd
be happy to be proven wrong on this.
I really do hope that Zenair will extend the testing to meet U.S.
specs and in an ideal world, they would be able to say "thanks for
offering, but we've decided to do that anyway and don't need the
money". I'd like to know that in the event of cables unexpectedly
becoming slack for whatever reason (possibly even due to builder
error), the plane could be flown to a safe arrival on the ground.
I'll be willing to make additional contribution to fund testing if
needed.
Al Hays
alhays@hickoryhillfarmsheep.com
N5892H reserved
On Mar 15, 2009, at 12:25 AM, Sabrina wrote:
>
> "2)Vne : is restricted to 180km/h 97 mph !!!!!"
>
> 180 km/h = 112 mph = 97 knots and they are assuming slack cables
>
> I can't imagine anyone on this list flying their XL over 112 MPH
> with slack cables...
>
> it is so easy to reach behind the seat on the pre-flight and check
> them...
>
> Until we know more, it would seem pretty easy to design a spring
> loaded set of three pulleys to maintain minimal aileron balance
> cable tension... maybe do that with the $2500 rather than paying
> someone to do something they already have a duty to do.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234628#234628
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: D-100 Shield |
Craig+Ron-
Ron provided the link and I found the exact same question posted by
an RV6er. I have to do some more navigation to find the answer, but have
to break for a hardware store run before they close. Thanks, guys. A200
and G196 connected and powered up.
Bill
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Craig Payne
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 12:53 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: D-100 Shield
If it is the actual shield (foil or braided wire tube surrounding the
wire bundle) as opposed to a ground wire then it should be connected to
the metal shell of the D connector at one end (probably the D-100)
(assuming the metal shell on the D-100 is connected to ground. If not
connect it to the ground pin at the D-100 end.
I think I mentioned the user's group. I was referring to the user's
forum on the Dynon web site.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Naumuk
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 7:07 PM
To: zenith list
Subject: Zenith-List: D-100 Shield
All-
Where does the shield for the D-100 computer and remote compass 9
pin connectors terminate? Also, someone refered to the Dynon user's
site. What's the address?
Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS 601MG/Corvair 95%
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 lb Airplane |
Cirrus have rudders interconnected to the ailerons with springs.
Cessna's have spring tensioned rudder cables.
A lot of engineering was done on this issue in 2007:
http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/airwd/ADfiles/UNDER/CIRRUS/CIRRUS-009.pdf
If ZBAG is using an Australian engineer, he should have ready access to all this
data... maybe $2500 is enough, maybe not...
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234669#234669
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 |
lb Airplane
The springs on the Cirrus are probably to help coordinate turns and
help its spin resistant characteristics. As I recall, the Cirrus
aircraft were exempted from much of the spin testing requirements
during certification because they incorporated many features to make
them spin resistant. The springs on the Cessna operate the nose-wheel
steering. Those springs aren't there to keep the cables properly
tensioned.
Adding pulleys and springs to the aileron control system will add
unnecessary complexity and additional failure modes. If one of those
springs let go in flight, you might find yourself thoroughly screwed.
If it turns out that there is a problem with the ailerons, the
simplest solution would be to counter-balance them. A few people have
already devised modifications for that.
>
> Cirrus have rudders interconnected to the ailerons with springs.
>
> Cessna's have spring tensioned rudder cables.
>
> A lot of engineering was done on this issue in 2007:
>
> http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/airwd/ADfiles/UNDER/CIRRUS/CIRRUS-009.pdf
>
> If ZBAG is using an Australian engineer, he should have ready access
> to all this data... maybe $2500 is enough, maybe not...
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 lb Airplane |
build it well
maintain it well
fly it within reasonable limits
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234712#234712
Message 8
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| Subject: | Chat Room Reminder for "Digesters" |
Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EST
www.mykitairplane.com <blocked::http://www.mykitairplane.com/>
Click on the link on the page.
George
Do Not Archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 |
lb Airplane
perfect answer
Jun
-----Original Message-----
>From: Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com>
>Sent: Mar 15, 2009 2:40 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 lb
Airplane
>
>
>build it well
>maintain it well
>fly it within reasonable limits
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=234712#234712
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041 |
lb Airplane
the springs are there to smooth out any quick motions to the ailerons. elliminates
a twitchy turn
elliminates stiffness.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bryan Martin <bryanmmartin@comcast.net>
>Sent: Mar 15, 2009 12:48 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Is Your CH601XL/650 a 1320 lb Airplane or a 1041
lb Airplane
>
>
>The springs on the Cirrus are probably to help coordinate turns and
>help its spin resistant characteristics. As I recall, the Cirrus
>aircraft were exempted from much of the spin testing requirements
>during certification because they incorporated many features to make
>them spin resistant. The springs on the Cessna operate the nose-wheel
>steering. Those springs aren't there to keep the cables properly
>tensioned.
>
>Adding pulleys and springs to the aileron control system will add
>unnecessary complexity and additional failure modes. If one of those
>springs let go in flight, you might find yourself thoroughly screwed.
>
>If it turns out that there is a problem with the ailerons, the
>simplest solution would be to counter-balance them. A few people have
>already devised modifications for that.
>
>>
>> Cirrus have rudders interconnected to the ailerons with springs.
>>
>> Cessna's have spring tensioned rudder cables.
>>
>> A lot of engineering was done on this issue in 2007:
>>
>> http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/airwd/ADfiles/UNDER/CIRRUS/CIRRUS-009.pdf
>>
>> If ZBAG is using an Australian engineer, he should have ready access
>> to all this data... maybe $2500 is enough, maybe not...
>
>
>--
>Bryan Martin
>N61BM, CH 601 XL,
>RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Nylon For Canopy System |
In the canopy kit there are two 1/16" thick nylon pieces that I cannot find
where they go onto.- These nylon pieces are not the canopy cable support
fairleads (6C4-2) which are 1/8' thick.- Also, there are quite a bit of
gaps between the square canopy side frames and panel side angles (6C1-1) at
the canopy bolt hinge point and I wonder if there are any parts (such as s
pacers) that go onto the canopy hing bolts between the square canopy side f
rames and panel side angles (6C1-1) to reduce the gaps, thus, play at the h
inge point?- =0A=0A=0A
Message 12
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| Subject: | Nylon For Canopy System |
I've seen thin nylon plates riveted to the vertical portion of 6C1-1 with
countersunk holes and rivets just forward of the plane of the instrument
panel. They were to keep the canopy frame from rubbing on 6C1-1 as the
canopy came down. The top edges were beveled. I don't see then on a lot of
XLs though.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Smith
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:51 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Nylon For Canopy System
In the canopy kit there are two 1/16" thick nylon pieces that I cannot find
where they go onto. These nylon pieces are not the canopy cable support
fairleads (6C4-2) which are 1/8' thick. Also, there are quite a bit of gaps
between the square canopy side frames and panel side angles (6C1-1) at the
canopy bolt hinge point and I wonder if there are any parts (such as
spacers) that go onto the canopy hing bolts between the square canopy side
frames and panel side angles (6C1-1) to reduce the gaps, thus, play at the
hinge point?
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