Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:01 AM - Re: Ailerons (Ken Arnold)
2. 04:23 AM - Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA (RClaggf4u@aol.com)
3. 04:37 AM - Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA (ashontz)
4. 04:41 AM - Re: Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA (RClaggf4u@aol.com)
5. 05:47 AM - Jihad Camps in the USA (since Homeland security was brought up) not Zenith related (Keith Ashcraft)
6. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA (Juan Vega)
7. 02:49 PM - Re: Ailerons ()
8. 03:06 PM - Re: Ailerons (wade jones)
9. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA ()
10. 03:55 PM - Re: Ailerons (Paul Mulwitz)
11. 05:42 PM - Re: Ailerons (Ronald Steele)
12. 07:35 PM - Re: Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA (Bob Collins)
13. 09:27 PM - Re: Ailerons (JAPhillipsGA@aol.com)
14. 10:49 PM - Re: Ailerons (Paul Mulwitz)
Message 1
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Hey Paul,
Sounds like a plan! Remember, bigger is better.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: paulrod36@msn.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons
About a week ago I dropped in at my friendly Airparts, and looked
through their stock, thinking in terms of pushpull tubes for my
ailerons. I pulled out some tubes ranging from 1-1/4 down to 3/4, and
then looked at SQUARE tubing as well. Pullin almost 12 feet of tube out
of the racks, none of them were particularly easy to bend by hand, and,
at the roughly 7 feet from bellcrank to fuselage skin, not of them had
any appreciable sag. I suppose there might be some harmonics in a piece
that long, but I very seriously doubt you'd get a tube to bend under
aileron pressure until very near mach one - in which case you then have
a very different concern. So, the plan is-- one length of pushpull rod
from bellcrank to fuselage skin, a 6 to 8 inch inner splice held by a
couple of AN=3 bolts, and an approx 21 inch tube from control stick to
the other end of the inner splice. And, if I can lay hands on the
appropriate size aluminum bar, and well-centered drilled and tapped
holes in the bar, threadad ball rod ends to allow for adjustment, with
locknuts to keep them that way. (And, square tubing even looks cool.)
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: ZodieRocket
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons
Problem is that in the XL the span for a push rod is quite large and
you have travel in a vertical as well as a horizontal range. With such a
run, to make a system that can handle the load that the cables are
capable of you would need to have a complicated bearing arrangement to
support the push rod in both movements. I imagine that the system can be
done safely with a complete change in which the way the controls
presently work, but just adding a rod with a few fittings would not be
able to handle the design loads that the cables can handle for a safe
conversion.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac CH650 C-GOXL, CH701 Rotax 912,
STOL CH750 Just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger &
Lina Hill
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:12 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons
Well I have to wonder, why not just use Push rods instead of cables
for the Ailerons? Then you never have to worry about cable slack.
I have them on my HDS 601 and they work perfectly.
Roger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeyoung65@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:31 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons
My understanding of control surface flutter is it can be caused by
control surfaces than can move without input forces. If they move upward
due to ruff air they will then be forced downward due to the air load on
them. They are then forced up ect until an input force is applied to
stop the cycle. So be sure to check your cable tension and looseness of
all connection. Jerry of Ga
In a message dated 3/17/2009 8:47:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bill_dom@yahoo.com writes:
The way I understand it is that cable tension does work in
preventing flutter, but relying in cable tension alone is not acceptable
by the FAA because of the possibility of cable loosening up. This could
be very critical if cables loosen up during the course of one flight, as
already happened to a 601XL.
As I say, this is the way I understand it. Meaning, I could
be wrong and and would like to be clarified.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
--- On Tue, 3/17/09, roger lambert <n601ap@gmail.com> wrote:
From: roger lambert <n601ap@gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Ailerons
To: "zenith-list@matronics.com" <zenith-list@matronics.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 8:38 AM
It has been stated:
Just because cable tension is not an acceptable
means of preventing flutter in certified aircraft,
does not mean that
it does not work.
It should be noted that many certificated aircraft,
including those flying in Great Britain, have ailerons wihout external
mass balanced ailerons. These include Piper Cubs, Aeroncas and, I
believe, Grumman Cheetahs and Tigers.
It also should be noted that in no crash/incident reported
to date did the aileron cables fail, only that owners failed to maintain
the cable tension.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less.
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA |
They call this socialism. America as we knew it no longer exists.
In a message dated 3/19/2009 10:37:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
soarmoore2@yahoo.com writes:
Hi Andy,
Better be careful, or the FAA may come after you for exhibiting unstable,
antisocial (ist) behavior. After all, everything that our government (Can you
believe the freedom-loving American electorate actually voted them into power,
err.. office?) is doing is for the betterment of the majority of Americans
who earn less than - whatever the number is this week.
These certainly are interesting, and dangerous, times that we live in....
M2
Please don't archive, as I know it's off topic and I don't want to leave a
trail. Oops, too late; the IRS/congress is already at the door.
--- On Thu, 3/19/09, ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org> wrote:
From: ashontz <ashontz@nbme.org>
Subject: Zenith-List: HOmeland security crap buggering GA
<ashontz@nbme.org>
So is that it, our lives (at least building and flying are a life passion of
mine) just come to a screeching halt now because an airliner was used as a
weapon 8 years ago? Check the latest edition of e-hotline. They're getting
close to making sure we're nothing but a nation of losers that sit around
and watch reality tv.
What if the goobermint proposed this type of intrusive lock down on how people
operate their cars, or their sex lives, or had to swipe everytime they entered
and exited their homes etc... At what point are people going to finally get
effectively outraged at this sh!t?
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235316#235316
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA |
Sad isn't it? Seriously, what happens if they implement this crap. Next thing you
won't be able to use a boat. I had to sit through a bogus a boater safety course
a few years ago, after having been a boater/fisherman for 20 years or more.
Anyway, the end of the course had a homeland security thing in it and it felt
like sitting in some George Orwell 1984 trianing camp, the whole thrust of
it was a "report on thy neighbor" theme.
Easiest way to create a police state, get the people policing and ratting on each
other.
[quote="WClagg"]They call this socialism. America as we knew it no longer exists.
In a message dated 3/19/2009 10:37:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, soarmoore2@yahoo.com
writes:
> Hi Andy,
>
> Better be careful, or the FAA may come after you for exhibiting
unstable, antisocial (ist) behavior. After all, everything that our
government (Can you believe the freedom-loving American electorate
actually voted them into power, err.. office?) is doing is for the
betterment of the majority of Americans who earn less than - whatever
the number is this week.
>
> These certainly are interesting, and dangerous, times that we live
in....
>
> M2
>
> Please don't archive, as I know it's off topic and I don't want to
leave a trail. Oops, too late; the IRS/congress is already at the
door.
>
>
> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, ashontz wrote:
>
>
> > From: ashontz
> > Subject: HOmeland security crap buggering GA
> > To: zenith-list@matronics..com
> > Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 6:59 PM
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > So is that it, our lives (at least building and flying are a life passion
of
> > > mine) just come to a screeching halt now because an airliner was used as
a
> > > weapon 8 years ago? Check the latest edition of e-hotline. They're getting
> > > close to making sure we're nothing but a nation of losers that sit around
> > > and watch reality tv.
> > >
> > > What if the goobermint proposed this type of intrusive lock down on how people
> > > operate their cars, or their sex lives, or had to swipe everytime they entered
> > > and exited their homes etc... At what point are people going to finally get
> > > effectively outraged at this sh!t?
> > >
> > > --------
> > > Andy Shontz
> > >
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > > CH601XL - Corvair
> > > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235316#235316
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> > f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> > .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
>
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001).
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235342#235342
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA |
Yes it is sad, the terrorist accomplished their goals. Do not archive.
In a message dated 3/20/2009 7:38:27 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
ashontz@nbme.org writes:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz@nbme.org>
Sad isn't it? Seriously, what happens if they implement this crap. Next
thing you won't be able to use a boat. I had to sit through a bogus a boater
safety course a few years ago, after having been a boater/fisherman for 20 years
or more. Anyway, the end of the course had a homeland security thing in it
and it felt like sitting in some George Orwell 1984 trianing camp, the whole
thrust of it was a "report on thy neighbor" theme.
Easiest way to create a police state, get the people policing and ratting on
each other.
[quote="WClagg"]They call this socialism. America as we knew it no longer
exists.
In a message dated 3/19/2009 10:37:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
soarmoore2@yahoo.com writes:
> Hi Andy,
>
> Better be careful, or the FAA may come after you for exhibiting
unstable, antisocial (ist) behavior. After all, everything that our
government (Can you believe the freedom-loving American electorate
actually voted them into power, err.. office?) is doing is for the
betterment of the majority of Americans who earn less than - whatever
the number is this week.
>
> These certainly are interesting, and dangerous, times that we live
in....
>
> M2
>
> Please don't archive, as I know it's off topic and I don't want to
leave a trail. Oops, too late; the IRS/congress is already at the
door.
>
>
> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, ashontz wrote:
>
>
> > From: ashontz
> > Subject: HOmeland security crap buggering GA
> > To: zenith-list@matronics..com
> > Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 6:59 PM
> >
> >
> > > --> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz"
> > >
> > >
> > > So is that it, our lives (at least building and flying are a life
passion of
> > > mine) just come to a screeching halt now because an airliner was used
as a
> > > weapon 8 years ago? Check the latest edition of e-hotline. They're
getting
> > > close to making sure we're nothing but a nation of losers that sit
around
> > > and watch reality tv.
> > >
> > > What if the goobermint proposed this type of intrusive lock down on
how people
> > > operate their cars, or their sex lives, or had to swipe everytime they
entered
> > > and exited their homes etc... At what point are people going to
finally get
> > > effectively outraged at this sh!t?
> > >
> > > --------
> > > Andy Shontz
> > >
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > > CH601XL - Corvair
> > > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235316#235316
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> > .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> > ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
>
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less
(http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001).
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235342#235342
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Jihad Camps in the USA (since Homeland security was brought |
up) not Zenith related
All,
I know this isn't releated to Zenith planes, but...... Since the Homeland Security
issue was brought up, here is some more shocking news.
Trout Creek Pass is just around 30-40 miles from my house. Way to scary. I don't
want to be flying West of my house and get shot down by a trainee!!!
Keith
CH701 -- scratch (for the most part)
N 38.9940
W 105.1305
Alt. 9,100'
*****************************************************
Subject: Look what is going on in Buena Vista,
CO!
Did you see this when it originally aired on Fox News? In case you don't know,
Trout Creek Pass , Colorado is
between Hartsel and Buena Vista , just west of Antero
Reservoir.
Jihad camps in the
USA
Please
watch the 7 min. video. They are training right under our
noses.
Americasnews.org
Jihad Camps in America http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcJ_hhe1ip4
Currently 35 terrorist training camps spread across the USA and run
by Sheikh Gilani from Pakistan . They are called "Soldiers of Allah" or "Jamaat
ul-Fuqra" and are training in your own backyard.
Some of their most active camps are:
- Trout
Creek Pass , Colorado (over 100 acres)
- Red House, Virginia (over 120
Acres)
- Mecca Circle, Wayne County , GA
- Islamber , NY (considered their
headquarters)
- Holy Islamville , SC (another huge compound and extremely
active)
- Baladulla , CA (Huge and also extremely active)
- A new one PA (
Wayne County )
- Fairfax , VA
- York , SC
- Hancock , NY
- Deposit ,
NY
- Springfield , MA
- Philadelphia , PA
- Hyattsville , MD
-
Bethany , WV
- Meherrin , VA
- Dover , TN
- Commerce , GA
- Jessup
GA
- Marion , AL
- Talihina , OK
- Houston ,
TX
- Coldwater , MI
- Buena Vista , CO
- Oak Hill , CA
- Onalska ,
WA
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA |
thats pretty cool idea.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 10:15 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA
>
>
>We need to show them the value of general aviation...
>
>Here is just one idea:
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzI1b_nfAu8&feature=channel_page
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235317#235317
>
>
Message 7
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Yeah, this is getting old. How about one more foray into wildness? We
develop small two -way hydraulic cylinders, masters at the controls,
slave cylinders at the control surfaces, use 1/4" inch plastic tubing to
push red fluid back and forth, and step up beyond mere mechanicals
altogether. Plasma-drive engines come later.
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com<mailto:JAPhillipsGA@aol.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons
Paul, what your describing has been done and the photo sequence of how
is somewhere out there on the web. Mark Townsend put it on 601.org some
time back, but then he removed it for what ever reason. I'm tired of
beating this horse so maybe somebody else can help you with Phase I & II
of the XL Push Rod saga. Best of luck, Bill
In a message dated 3/18/2009 6:47:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
paulrod36@msn.com writes:
About a week ago I dropped in at my friendly Airparts, and looked
through their stock, thinking in terms of pushpull tubes for my
ailerons. I pulled out some tubes ranging from 1-1/4 down to 3/4, and
then looked at SQUARE tubing as well. Pullin almost 12 feet of tube out
of the racks, none of them were particularly easy to bend by hand, and,
at the roughly 7 feet from bellcrank to fuselage skin, not of them had
any appreciable sag. I suppose there might be some harmonics in a piece
that long, but I very seriously doubt you'd get a tube to bend under
aileron pressure until very near mach one - in which case you then have
a very different concern. So, the plan is-- one length of pushpull rod
from bellcrank to fuselage skin, a 6 to 8 inch inner splice held by a
couple of AN=3 bolts, and an approx 21 inch tube from control stick to
the other end of the inner splice. And, if I can lay hands on the
appropriate size aluminum bar, and well-centered drilled and tapped
holes in the bar, threadad ball rod ends to allow for adjustment, with
locknuts to keep them that way. (And, square tubing even looks cool.)
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: ZodieRocket<mailto:zodierocket@hsfx.ca>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons
Problem is that in the XL the span for a push rod is quite large
and you have travel in a vertical as well as a horizontal range. With
such a run, to make a system that can handle the load that the cables
are capable of you would need to have a complicated bearing arrangement
to support the push rod in both movements. I imagine that the system can
be done safely with a complete change in which the way the controls
presently work, but just adding a rod with a few fittings would not be
able to handle the design loads that the cables can handle for a safe
conversion.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac CH650 C-GOXL, CH701 Rotax 912,
STOL CH750 Just started
www.ch601.org<http://www.ch601.org/> /
www.ch701.com<http://www.ch701.com/>/
www.Osprey2.com<http://www.osprey2.com/>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger &
Lina Hill
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:12 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons
Well I have to wonder, why not just use Push rods instead of
cables for the Ailerons? Then you never have to worry about cable slack.
I have them on my HDS 601 and they work perfectly.
Roger
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeyoung65@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:31 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons
My understanding of control surface flutter is it can be caused by
control surfaces than can move without input forces. If they move upward
due to ruff air they will then be forced downward due to the air load on
them. They are then forced up ect until an input force is applied to
stop the cycle. So be sure to check your cable tension and looseness of
all connection. Jerry of Ga
In a message dated 3/17/2009 8:47:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bill_dom@yahoo.com writes:
The way I understand it is that cable tension does work in
preventing flutter, but relying in cable tension alone is not acceptable
by the FAA because of the possibility of cable loosening up. This could
be very critical if cables loosen up during the course of one flight, as
already happened to a 601XL.
As I say, this is the way I understand it. Meaning, I
could be wrong and and would like to be clarified.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
--- On Tue, 3/17/09, roger lambert <n601ap@gmail.com>
wrote:
From: roger lambert <n601ap@gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Ailerons
To: "zenith-list@matronics.com"
<zenith-list@matronics.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 8:38 AM
It has been stated:
Just because cable tension is not an acceptable
means of preventing flutter in certified aircraft,
does not mean that
it does not work.
It should be noted that many certificated aircraft,
including those flying in Great Britain, have ailerons wihout external
mass balanced ailerons. These include Piper Cubs, Aeroncas and, I
believe, Grumman Cheetahs and Tigers.
It also should be noted that in no crash/incident reported
to date did the aileron cables fail, only that owners failed to maintain
the cable tension.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
less<http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001>.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 8
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With the mishaps the 601XL has had ,is there any record of any accidents
without the aileron trim .
Wade Jones South Texas
601XL Franklin 0-235
----- Original Message -----
From: paulrod36@msn.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons
Yeah, this is getting old. How about one more foray into wildness? We
develop small two -way hydraulic cylinders, masters at the controls,
slave cylinders at the control surfaces, use 1/4" inch plastic tubing to
push red fluid back and forth, and step up beyond mere mechanicals
altogether. Plasma-drive engines come later.
Paul R
----- Original Message -----
From: JAPhillipsGA@aol.com
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons
Paul, what your describing has been done and the photo sequence of
how is somewhere out there on the web. Mark Townsend put it on 601.org
some time back, but then he removed it for what ever reason. I'm tired
of beating this horse so maybe somebody else can help you with Phase I &
II of the XL Push Rod saga. Best of luck, Bill
In a message dated 3/18/2009 6:47:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
paulrod36@msn.com writes:
About a week ago I dropped in at my friendly Airparts, and looked
through their stock, thinking in terms of pushpull tubes for my
ailerons. I pulled out some tubes ranging from 1-1/4 down to 3/4, and
then looked at SQUARE tubing as well. Pullin almost 12 feet of tube out
of the racks, none of them were particularly easy to bend by hand, and,
at the roughly 7 feet from bellcrank to fuselage skin, not of them had
any appreciable sag. I suppose there might be some harmonics in a piece
that long, but I very seriously doubt you'd get a tube to bend under
aileron pressure until very near mach one - in which case you then have
a very different concern. So, the plan is-- one length of pushpull rod
from bellcrank to fuselage skin, a 6 to 8 inch inner splice held by a
couple of AN=3 bolts, and an approx 21 inch tube from control stick to
the other end of the inner splice. And, if I can lay hands on the
appropriate size aluminum bar, and well-centered drilled and tapped
holes in the bar, threadad ball rod ends to allow for adjustment, with
locknuts to keep them that way. (And, square tubing even looks cool.)
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: ZodieRocket
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons
Problem is that in the XL the span for a push rod is quite large
and you have travel in a vertical as well as a horizontal range. With
such a run, to make a system that can handle the load that the cables
are capable of you would need to have a complicated bearing arrangement
to support the push rod in both movements. I imagine that the system can
be done safely with a complete change in which the way the controls
presently work, but just adding a rod with a few fittings would not be
able to handle the design loads that the cables can handle for a safe
conversion.
Mark Townsend Alma, Ontario
Zodiac CH650 C-GOXL, CH701 Rotax 912,
STOL CH750 Just started
www.ch601.org / www.ch701.com/ www.Osprey2.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger &
Lina Hill
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 12:12 PM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Ailerons
Well I have to wonder, why not just use Push rods instead of
cables for the Ailerons? Then you never have to worry about cable slack.
I have them on my HDS 601 and they work perfectly.
Roger
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Jeyoung65@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 10:31 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Ailerons
My understanding of control surface flutter is it can be caused
by control surfaces than can move without input forces. If they move
upward due to ruff air they will then be forced downward due to the air
load on them. They are then forced up ect until an input force is
applied to stop the cycle. So be sure to check your cable tension and
looseness of all connection. Jerry of Ga
In a message dated 3/17/2009 8:47:21 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bill_dom@yahoo.com writes:
The way I understand it is that cable tension does work
in preventing flutter, but relying in cable tension alone is not
acceptable by the FAA because of the possibility of cable loosening up.
This could be very critical if cables loosen up during the course of one
flight, as already happened to a 601XL.
As I say, this is the way I understand it. Meaning, I
could be wrong and and would like to be clarified.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
--- On Tue, 3/17/09, roger lambert <n601ap@gmail.com>
wrote:
From: roger lambert <n601ap@gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Ailerons
To: "zenith-list@matronics.com"
<zenith-list@matronics.com>
Date: Tuesday, March 17, 2009, 8:38 AM
It has been stated:
Just because cable tension is not an acceptable
means of preventing flutter in certified
aircraft, does not mean that
it does not work.
It should be noted that many certificated aircraft,
including those flying in Great Britain, have ailerons wihout external
mass balanced ailerons. These include Piper Cubs, Aeroncas and, I
believe, Grumman Cheetahs and Tigers.
It also should be noted that in no crash/incident
reported to date did the aileron cables fail, only that owners failed to
maintain the cable tension.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA |
Andy, Andy, Andy.....don't you understand this is all for your own
good? It's all to make this country safer, more gentle, and to keep
people from being distressed by those who would say hurtful things.
Obviously, you just don't get it, so we'll have to report you to our
leaders, and make an appointment for you to attend the re-education
camp.
Paul R
DO NOT ARCHIVE (they may think I'm being sarcastic, and come after me,
too)
----- Original Message -----
From: ashontz<mailto:ashontz@nbme.org>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:35 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA
<ashontz@nbme.org<mailto:ashontz@nbme.org>>
Sad isn't it? Seriously, what happens if they implement this crap.
Next thing you won't be able to use a boat. I had to sit through a bogus
a boater safety course a few years ago, after having been a
boater/fisherman for 20 years or more. Anyway, the end of the course had
a homeland security thing in it and it felt like sitting in some George
Orwell 1984 trianing camp, the whole thrust of it was a "report on thy
neighbor" theme.
Easiest way to create a police state, get the people policing and
ratting on each other.
[quote="WClagg"]They call this socialism. America as we knew it no
longer exists.
In a message dated 3/19/2009 10:37:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
soarmoore2@yahoo.com<mailto:soarmoore2@yahoo.com> writes:
> Hi Andy,
>
> Better be careful, or the FAA may come after you for
exhibiting unstable, antisocial (ist) behavior. After all,
everything that our government (Can you believe the
freedom-loving American electorate actually voted them into
power, err.. office?) is doing is for the betterment of the
majority of Americans who earn less than - whatever the number
is this week.
>
> These certainly are interesting, and dangerous, times that
we live in....
>
> M2
>
> Please don't archive, as I know it's off topic and I don't
want to leave a trail. Oops, too late; the IRS/congress is
already at the door.
>
>
> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, ashontz wrote:
>
>
> > From: ashontz
> > Subject: HOmeland security crap buggering GA
> > To: zenith-list@matronics..com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics..com>
> > Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 6:59 PM
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > So is that it, our lives (at least building and flying are a
life passion of
> > > mine) just come to a screeching halt now because an airliner was
used as a
> > > weapon 8 years ago? Check the latest edition of e-hotline.
They're getting
> > > close to making sure we're nothing but a nation of losers that
sit around
> > > and watch reality tv.
> > >
> > > What if the goobermint proposed this type of intrusive lock down
on how people
> > > operate their cars, or their sex lives, or had to swipe
everytime they entered
> > > and exited their homes etc... At what point are people going to
finally get
> > > effectively outraged at this sh!t?
> > >
> > > --------
> > > Andy Shontz
> > >
> > > do not archive
> > >
> > > CH601XL - Corvair
> > > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz<http://www.mykitlog.com/ashontz>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Read this topic online here:
> > >
> > >
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235316#235316<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235316#235316>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> >
> >
> >
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>
> > .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> >
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> >
> >
>
Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less
(http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001<http://foo
d.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001>).
> [b]
--------
Andy Shontz
do not archive
CH601XL - Corvair
www.mykitlog.com/ashontz<http://www.mykitlog.com/ashontz>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235342#235342<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235342#235342>
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Message 10
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Why wimp out. Let's do it like the big boys do.
Microprocessor with sensors at the Pilot's seat, fiber optic cable
for networking between the pilot and the computers at the various
control surface computers, and a whole bunch of software to control
it all. Then we would have a real fly-by-wire setup just like the
Boeing 777. (Oops, those are the ones that stop listening to pilot
commands at random intervals . . . )
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 02:47 PM 3/20/2009, you wrote:
>Yeah, this is getting old. How about one more foray into
>wildness? We develop small two -way hydraulic cylinders, masters at
>the controls, slave cylinders at the control surfaces, use 1/4" inch
>plastic tubing to push red fluid back and forth, and step up beyond
>mere mechanicals altogether. Plasma-drive engines come later.
>
>Paul R
Message 11
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I was thinking strain gauges on the spars, maybe on the ailerons...
Ron
do not archive
On Mar 20, 2009, at 6:53 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
> Why wimp out. Let's do it like the big boys do.
>
> Microprocessor with sensors at the Pilot's seat, fiber optic cable
> for networking between the pilot and the computers at the various
> control surface computers, and a whole bunch of software to control
> it all. Then we would have a real fly-by-wire setup just like the
> Boeing 777. (Oops, those are the ones that stop listening to pilot
> commands at random intervals . . . )
>
> Paul
> XL getting close
> do not archive
>
> At 02:47 PM 3/20/2009, you wrote:
>> Yeah, this is getting old. How about one more foray into wildness?
>> We develop small two -way hydraulic cylinders, masters at the
>> controls, slave cylinders at the control surfaces, use 1/4" inch
>> plastic tubing to push red fluid back and forth, and step up beyond
>> mere mechanicals altogether. Plasma-drive engines come later.
>>
>> Paul R
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA |
Paul,
Thankfully, email reader, Thunderbird, labeled your message an "email
scam". ;-)
Bob Collins
Sunnyvale CA USA
paulrod36@msn.com wrote:
> Andy, Andy, Andy.....don't you understand this is all for your own
> good? It's all to make this country safer, more gentle, and to keep
> people from being distressed by those who would say hurtful things.
> Obviously, you just don't get it, so we'll have to report you to our
> leaders, and make an appointment for you to attend the re-education camp.
>
> Paul R
> DO NOT ARCHIVE (they may think I'm being sarcastic, and come after me,
> too)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* ashontz <mailto:ashontz@nbme.org>
> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 20, 2009 6:35 AM
> *Subject:* Zenith-List: Re: HOmeland security crap buggering GA
>
> <mailto:ashontz@nbme.org>>
>
> Sad isn't it? Seriously, what happens if they implement this crap.
> Next thing you won't be able to use a boat. I had to sit through a
> bogus a boater safety course a few years ago, after having been a
> boater/fisherman for 20 years or more. Anyway, the end of the
> course had a homeland security thing in it and it felt like
> sitting in some George Orwell 1984 trianing camp, the whole thrust
> of it was a "report on thy neighbor" theme.
>
> Easiest way to create a police state, get the people policing and
> ratting on each other.
>
> [quote="WClagg"]They call this socialism. America as we knew it no
> longer exists.
>
> In a message dated 3/19/2009 10:37:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight
> Time, soarmoore2@yahoo.com <mailto:soarmoore2@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > Hi Andy,
> >
> > Better be careful, or the FAA may come after you for
> exhibiting unstable, antisocial (ist) behavior. After
> all, everything that our government (Can you believe the
> freedom-loving American electorate actually voted them
> into power, err.. office?) is doing is for the betterment
> of the majority of Americans who earn less than -
> whatever the number is this week.
> >
> > These certainly are interesting, and dangerous, times
> that we live in....
> >
> > M2
> >
> > Please don't archive, as I know it's off topic and I
> don't want to leave a trail. Oops, too late; the
> IRS/congress is already at the door.
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 3/19/09, ashontz wrote:
> >
> >
> > > From: ashontz
> > > Subject: HOmeland security crap buggering GA
> > > To: zenith-list@matronics..com <mailto:zenith-list@matronics..com>
> > > Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 6:59 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So is that it, our lives (at least building and flying are a
> life passion of
> > > > mine) just come to a screeching halt now because an airliner
> was used as a
> > > > weapon 8 years ago? Check the latest edition of e-hotline.
> They're getting
> > > > close to making sure we're nothing but a nation of losers
> that sit around
> > > > and watch reality tv.
> > > >
> > > > What if the goobermint proposed this type of intrusive lock
> down on how people
> > > > operate their cars, or their sex lives, or had to swipe
> everytime they entered
> > > > and exited their homes etc... At what point are people going
> to finally get
> > > > effectively outraged at this sh!t?
> > > >
> > > > --------
> > > > Andy Shontz
> > > >
> > > > do not archive
> > > >
> > > > CH601XL - Corvair
> > > > www.mykitlog.com/ashontz <http://www.mykitlog.com/ashontz>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Read this topic online here:
> > > >
> > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235316#235316
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List%22%3Ehttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>
> > > .matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
> > >
> ://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
> less (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001).
>
> > [b]
>
>
> --------
> Andy Shontz
>
> do not archive
>
> CH601XL - Corvair
> www.mykitlog.com/ashontz <http://www.mykitlog.com/ashontz>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235342#235342
>
>
> http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web
> title=http://forums.matronics.com/
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>
> _p; generous bsp;
> title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 13
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Ron, Paul, you guys just are not taking this thing seriously enough. Your
only hope for redemption is to drink heavily and often. Best of luck to you and
I hope to meet you at the SnF BBQ, Bill of Georgia "Fly for Peace"
In a message dated 3/20/2009 8:42:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rsteele@rjsit.com writes:
I was thinking strain gauges on the spars, maybe on the ailerons...
Ron
do not archive
On Mar 20, 2009, at 6:53 PM, Paul Mulwitz wrote:
Why wimp out. Let's do it like the big boys do.
Microprocessor with sensors at the Pilot's seat, fiber optic cable for
networking between the pilot and the computers at the various control surface
computers, and a whole bunch of software to control it all. Then we would have
a
real fly-by-wire setup just like the Boeing 777. (Oops, those are the ones
that stop listening to pilot commands at random intervals . . . )
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 02:47 PM 3/20/2009, you wrote:
Yeah, this is getting old. How about one more foray into wildness? We
develop small two -way hydraulic cylinders, masters at the controls, slave
cylinders at the control surfaces, use 1/4" inch plastic tubing to push red fluid
back and forth, and step up beyond mere mechanicals altogether. Plasma-drive
engines come later.
Paul R
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 14
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Hi Bill,
I'd love to meet you, but not this year at the far corner of the
country. I live in Washington state perhaps 4,000 miles from
SnF. And, my plane isn't flying yet.
That could be different next year. I hope to get into phase 1
testing before Summer and through it before the rains start here
again in October.
Have fun,
Paul
XL getting close
do not archive
At 09:24 PM 3/20/2009, you wrote:
>Ron, Paul, you guys just are not taking this thing seriously enough.
>Your only hope for redemption is to drink heavily and often. Best of
>luck to you and I hope to meet you at the SnF BBQ, Bill of Georgia
>"Fly for Peace"
>
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