Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:21 AM - Re: Facet pump and vapor lock. (Gary Ray)
2. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: Help choosing a design (Tim Shankland)
3. 09:53 AM - Re: Y-cord construction (Gig Giacona)
4. 09:56 AM - 601XL Speed With and Without Wheel Fairings (Gig Giacona)
5. 10:29 AM - Re: 601XL Speed With and Without Wheel Fairings (Bryan Martin)
6. 10:33 AM - Re: 601XL Speed With and Without Wheel Fairings (Jay Maynard)
7. 01:06 PM - Re: facet pump vapor lock follow up question ()
8. 01:50 PM - Re: facet pump vapor lock follow up question (Bryan Martin)
9. 03:06 PM - Re: Re: Y-cord construction (Bill Naumuk)
10. 03:27 PM - Re: 601XL Speed With and Without Wheel Fairings (george may)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Facet pump and vapor lock. |
During testing I recorded 9 lbs psi on the ground when both facet pumps were
on at the same time. The Ellison was not running well in this condition. I
rewired the switches so either pump but not both could be active at the same
time. I now have a Marvel Schebler MA3-SPA but I did not repeat the test.
Gary Ray
davgray@sbcglobal.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryMcFarland" <larry@macsmachine.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Facet pump and vapor lock.
>
> Phill,
> I've got two facet pumps in parallel on my firewall and they work well
> independently or together.
> The advantage of this is one pump cannot get clogged and shut down the
> other. I normally take off with two and
> run on one. If the one leading in serial order quits, do you increase
> the odds of vapor lock? It would seem so.
> 130 hours and running.
>
> Larry McFarland 601HDS
>
>
> 601corvair wrote:
> >
> > Facet pump and vapor lock.
> >
> >
> >
> > It would seem the most cited way to plumb a covair driven wing tank
> >
> > only 601 is with 2 in series facet fuel pumps on the firewall.
> >
> > Logic would suggest this instillation (sucking vs pumping fuel)
> >
> > is susceptible to vapor lock. My question is: has anyone
> >
> > experienced vapor lock with a facet pump? If so, what was the
> >
> > instillation and flying conditions. There are lots of plumbing and
> >
> > weight advantages to this instillation (pump redundancy, oil
> >
> > pressure driven fuel shut off, reduced weight, access to all the
> >
> > fuel all the time). Thanks for your in put. Phill Hartig
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Help choosing a design |
Jon,
I have a 601HD powered with a 100 hp Stratus suburu, with wheel pants
at 70% my cruise is 105 mph.
Tim Shankland
mcjon77 wrote:
>
>Is a 100mph cruise generally what is seen in a 601HD?
>
>--------
>Jon McDonald
>Building Sonex #1287
>Thinking ahead about a Zenith CH 701 :D
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238273#238273
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Y-cord construction |
naumuk(at)windstream.net wrote:
> ACS. I have a beautiful David Clark helo headset, I wanted panel mount jacks
> and got Y-cord.
> Bill
> ---
Since when won't ACS take a return? I've sent back stuff a number of times even
after I opened it.
That said when I got my helo rating and my CFI said never by helo specific headsets
unless you fly helos for a living.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238507#238507
Message 4
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| Subject: | 601XL Speed With and Without Wheel Fairings |
Anyone out there who has flown their 601XL both with and without the wheel fairings?
I'd like a real apple to apples comparison on speed.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238510#238510
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Speed With and Without Wheel Fairings |
I saw about five MPH difference in speed.
On Apr 9, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> Anyone out there who has flown their 601XL both with and without the
> wheel fairings?
>
> I'd like a real apple to apples comparison on speed.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL Speed With and Without Wheel Fairings |
On Thu, Apr 09, 2009 at 09:55:47AM -0700, Gig Giacona wrote:
> Anyone out there who has flown their 601XL both with and without the wheel
> fairings?
>
> I'd like a real apple to apples comparison on speed.
I saw from 5 to 7 knots difference with the wheel pants off. That's probably
a bit worse than if the pants were never there, since there's some mounting
hardware that's not easily removed.
The last snowstorm to hit the upper Midwest was my fault: I'd put the wheel
pants back on a week or so prior.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: facet pump vapor lock follow up question |
Sorry guys, I just HAVE to jump in on this endless thread. Can we have a
show of hands of those who have ever had vapor lock? And can we have a
show of hands of those who have ever had vapor lock in the air? Vapor
lock requires the following: Temperature at or near the boiling point of
the liquid; Atmospheric pressure a good bit lower than 29.92; And one
other factor, which escapes me at the moment. (my oldtimer's disease is
kicking in.) In 51 years, I have heard of it maybe 5 times, and every
one of those was on the ground, when the engine, already hot, sat and
cooked on the ramp for a while. And, come to think of it, they were
fuel-injected engines, where the fuel about to go into the cylinders was
cooking on top of the engine. Personally, I'd rather debate whether the
addition of external wire bracing, or AN-15 bolts would keep the wings
on in a tornado, or a 10G pullout. Sorry for the rant. We return you
to your program already in progress.
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: 601corvair<mailto:airvair601@yahoo.com>
To: corvaircraft@mylist.net<mailto:corvaircraft@mylist.net> ; Zenith
list<mailto:Zenith-List@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 7:20 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: facet pump vapor lock follow up question
Thanks to all who responded to my original post. But let me be
more specific in my
concerns and situation. First we have a corvair and an MA3 carb
from a Cessna 150.
Second our concern is vapor lock in the fuel system from the
tank to the carb.
For instance, in an UN coordinated turn - like in an emergency
situation when you are
NOT coordinated in a properly banked turn, the pump will be
asked to draw fuel up-hill
from the lower wing tank; such as in a barrel roll like
maneuver or unusual attitude
situation. Pumps at the centerline of the aircraft must draw
fuel against the vertical
distance to the tank, AND against he centrifugal force pushing
the fuel toward the
wingtip.
In an emergency, who knows what attitude the aircraft will be
in. My question is . . . Is
there a danger in trying to suck fuel all the way to the
firewall, through the selector valve, through the gascolator, and
through a (potentially) dead fuel pump to get to a working
pump located 12" away from the carb ??? Chris Heinz, has the
pumps in the wings - he's
the aircraft designer. However, the design also calls for a
rotex engine, which I believe
has a mechanical pump at the engine to back up the single
electrical pump in each wing.
From a simple physics standpoint, it seems like you should push
the fuel. However, in
this situation sucking fuel will allow fuel pump redundancy with
the same number of
pumps, if the pumps suck rather than push fuel. We also have
the option of using
electrical pumps in the wings to bring pressurized fuel through
the cabin, to a valve,
through the valve to the gascolator directly to the carb, or to
the mechanical corvair
fuel pump in parallel and then to the carb. Obviously, the
mechanical pump adds weight forward and has some fuel weeping issues.
Any thoughts on this? Am I making a mountain out of a mole
hill?
It is easier to address this now in the garage than later at
the airport, or at altitude.
Thanks again. Phill Hartig
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: facet pump vapor lock follow up question |
Actually, all that is required for vapor lock to occur is for the
temperature-pressure combination of the fuel near the intake of the
pump to fall within the vapor region. It usually requires a high
ambient temperature, but gasoline will vaporize at a much lower
temperature than its usual boiling point if the pressure is low
enough. A low pressure can occur when there is a significant
restriction to the flow of fuel and the rate of flow is high. The
restriction will cause a pressure drop in the flow downstream of that
point.
I have had vapor lock occur in an old carbureted car on a hot day
while climbing a steep hill. It is very rare in aircraft in flight
because certificated aircraft fuel systems have been designed to
prevent it and avgas has a much higher boiling point than auto gas.
About the only time vapor lock is at all likely in an aircraft in
flight is during a steep climb at full throttle on a hot day (i.e.
right after takeoff). It usually takes a very bad fuel system design
to have much risk of vapor lock.
On Apr 9, 2009, at 4:05 PM, <paulrod36@msn.com> <paulrod36@msn.com>
wrote:
> Sorry guys, I just HAVE to jump in on this endless thread. Can we
> have a show of hands of those who have ever had vapor lock? And can
> we have a show of hands of those who have ever had vapor lock in the
> air? Vapor lock requires the following: Temperature at or near the
> boiling point of the liquid; Atmospheric pressure a good bit lower
> than 29.92; And one other factor, which escapes me at the moment.
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Y-cord construction |
Gig, and all-
1. I didn't know they were helo headsets until the package arrived. I'm
sure your CFI's advice had to do with the jack compatability issue.
2. I have absolutely no complaints dealing with ACS. Since this was a
special order (Non-stock item) there was a no-return statement which I
freely agreed to. Yes, I suppose I could insist on a return but I know I can
have the jacks working quicker than the time a return would take. It was
just as much my fault for not spotting the lack of a -PM suffix on the part
number when they e-mailed my order confirmation.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 12:52 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Y-cord construction
>
>
> naumuk(at)windstream.net wrote:
>> ACS. I have a beautiful David Clark helo headset, I wanted panel mount
>> jacks
>> and got Y-cord.
>>
>> Bill
>> ---
>
>
> Since when won't ACS take a return? I've sent back stuff a number of times
> even after I opened it.
>
> That said when I got my helo rating and my CFI said never by helo specific
> headsets unless you fly helos for a living.
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238507#238507
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | 601XL Speed With and Without Wheel Fairings |
Gig--
Looking at the other replies=2C I must be doing something wrong=2C but I o
nly see a 3-4 mph difference with or without the standard Zenith wheel pant
s.
George May
601XL 912s
> Subject: Zenith-List: 601XL Speed With and Without Wheel Fairings
> From: wrgiacona@gmail.com
> Date: Thu=2C 9 Apr 2009 09:55:47 -0700
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Anyone out there who has flown their 601XL both with and without the whee
l fairings?
>
> I'd like a real apple to apples comparison on speed.
>
> --------
> W.R. "=3BGig"=3B Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=238510#238510
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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