---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 04/19/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:04 AM - Apologies to all (Edward Moody II) 2. 09:26 AM - Re: Re: Attention all Rednecks (Elden Jacobson) 3. 12:47 PM - Re: Apologies to all (Dave Austin) 4. 01:08 PM - Re: Re: Control cable tension (a.f.rupp@att.net) 5. 01:16 PM - Modesto Bee article (Rich Simmons) 6. 01:41 PM - Re: Modesto Bee article (Dave) 7. 02:32 PM - Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" (George Race) 8. 02:49 PM - Re: Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" (steve) 9. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue. (Gary Gower) 10. 05:34 PM - Re: Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" (Roger & Lina Hill) 11. 06:14 PM - Re: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue. (Juan Vega) 12. 08:43 PM - Re: cable tension 601 hds ? (JohnDRead@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:30 AM PST US From: "Edward Moody II" Subject: Zenith-List: Apologies to all I did not ask for any of this to happen so please don't make me the villain. I simply ask to be allowed to take responsibility for my actions. I find that much less redneck and arrogant than those who act to take away that option. I understand that ZBAGers meant well and probably continue to mean well. I object to the consequences of their action, specifically the indefinite moratorium on certification of my plane. Go ahead and hate me for that if you must, but remember, all the 601XLs that are certified are still flying and will continue to do so while my plane and any others awaiting inspection have been singled out for de facto grounding. I do believe the ZBAG, for better or for worse, have brought this on. I may be far wrong about that. They may be far wrong as well. If I am wrong, they are not harmed. If they are wrong their course of action harms me via governmental fiat. I am truly sorry if my words offend any of you. I don't recall writing that the ZBAG engineers should go off and play with their slide rules or anything remote arrogant as the suggestion that I go shoot a gun to vent my frustration. What I actually did was (A) I checked out yesterday in an AMD 601XL with a very good flight instructor (and accomplished my BFR a few months early... never hurts to learn something), and (B) I am pursuing the DAR route of inspection and certification. If I crash and burn, go ahead and say "I told him so". Rest assured that I will not be flying over any house or congested areas and that I will do my best to inspect and maintain my airplane and to fly it responsibly and safely. For those who believe the current design cannot be flown safely I am at a loss to assure you. This will be the last I post (other than private emails) on the subject until it is resolved to the satisfaction of the FAA . If any of you wish to contact me off-list you are welcome to do so but let's keep it civil please. Ed Moody II N4568G CH601XL/Jabiru/Sensenich GA dredmoody@cox.net PS: Although my neck is indeed red, I am not not a redneck. I am an obstinate American of Irish descent. Hate me if you must; I will not return the sentiment. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:23 AM PST US From: Elden Jacobson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Attention all Rednecks I wish I could be there; we'll look forward to your reporting with anticipa tion. - Elden Do not archive --- On Sun, 4/19/09, Rick Lindstrom wrote: From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Attention all Rednecks > Sure it would, Elden. Only we're not in a position to make judgements about when the company should or shouldn't release information on a mass basis. But as a 601 builder/pilot, I'd like to hear as much as I can as soon as po ssible. I agree that the info from the mothership has been sparse at best, and in i ts absence, imaginations tend to run wild. But what we have seen has been l ogical and well thought out when released. All along they've said "no news is goods news" while search for the fatal smoking gun, and I believe it. Sun n Fun is nigh, and I'll bet my Blue Mountain EFIS that Zenith will have plenty to say on the issue during the event. I'm sure looking forward to s pending some face time with them. rick do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: Elden Jacobson >Sent: Apr 18, 2009 12:46 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Attention all Rednecks > >Thank you, Rick. My only question: instead of each one of us calling Zenit h, wouldn't it have been easier for them to have publicly said: "this is wh at we are doing in response to the real concerns being expressed by the NTS B and xl owners/builders"? If they are leading at this point, I'd sure like them to so state. > >Elden Jacobson > >Do not archive > >--- On Sun, 4/19/09, Rick Lindstrom wrote: > > >From: Rick Lindstrom >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Attention all Rednecks >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Date: Sunday, April 19, 2009, 1:28 AM > > m> > >Spot ON, Jay! Bravo Zulu! > >There are TWO incorrect assumptions floating about here. One is that ailer on flutter or vibration alone is the smoking gun in all of the 601 crashes, and the second is that "Zenith isn't doing anything" about it. Horse pucky .. > >According to Sebastien, and I don't think he's lying, the 601 airframe is undergoing a complete structural review AGAIN, by two outside engineers ind ependently, only to FAR Part 23 standards this time (which includes flutter testing). All it took was a simple phone call on Wednesday to find this ou t. > >Yes, the elevator pitch sensitivity is a LOT higher than other, certified airplanes. Frankly, I've spent the last 30 years flying Grummans mostly, wh ich are also pitch sensitive. So this doesn't bother me in the slightest. H owever, the thought of a passenger accidently jamming the stick forward in cruise scares the bejezus out of me, as it's really tough to reattach the w ings as they flutter away from the fuselage. So I also installed the elevat or stops that limit downward deflection to 15 degrees as a hedge against th is. > >And, yes. A day at the rifle range, like a day flying, is time well invest ed. > >Rick Lindstrom >Proudly Redneck > >-----Original Message----- >>From: jaybannist@cs.com >>Sent: Apr 18, 2009 12:33 PM >>To: zenith-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Attention all Rednecks >> >> >> I believe that the old adage "haste makes waste" is still valid.? Zenith has said that they are working on the problem.? I, for one, really don't w ant to agitate for a quick solution to a problem that might not exist; nor to solve a perceived problem, only to ignore a real problem. >> >>Suppose Zenith issues an aileron mass balance solution, but aileron flutt er isn't really the problem.? That would leave us with a hidden problem, wo uldn't it?? I would much rather? Zenith have the time to find out what the problem really is (if there is a problem) before developing something to sa tisfy a perceived problem. >> >>Jay Bannister > >le, List Admin. > > le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:30 PM PST US From: "Dave Austin" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Apologies to all Amen to that, Ed. Keep your speed down. Dave Austin 601HDS - 912 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:22 PM PST US From: a.f.rupp@att.net Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Control cable tension All, for what its worth. (.02) The date on my A&P is 6/14/47 and I have earned my living with it ever since, and Air Force before that. From J-3 to 767. Having done my share of control cable changes and checks I would say if you have to check tension between annuals something was not done properly. If you have fairleads, as we do on the XL, and have galvanized cables and your cable direction change is less than five degrees and you have stretched the cable after making it, it will not need adjustment between annual inspections. If you have pulleys it will last longer. If your A&P does not check every inch of the cable during an annual for fraying breakege, pulley or fairlead wear you better get a new A&P. (Or yourself) A good way to check and stretch your cable after you have made it is with a fish scale and a come along. This checks the strength and stretch. When you check your tension cycle your controls through several throws to make sure there is not resistance on the balance or control cable. There should be no slop between control stick and control movement.. Incidently they would not give me a date for certification check. Fly by the numbers and I think it is a good airplane as is but I expect aileron balance weights and a bobweight will be called out. Neither is a big deal to install but the engineering has to be good or we are digging a deeper hole. Be glad there is tension between the NSTB and the FAA. Everybody in the production and flying of aircraft has an agenda abd we need balance. Al Rupp Lake Placid, NY CH601 XL 6-6765 Corvair . -------------- Original message from Juan Vega 2005@earthlink.net>: -------------- > > all planes with cables are regularly tensioned. ASk you local A&P. > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:16:08 PM PST US From: Rich Simmons <4RCSIMMONS@comcast.net> Subject: Zenith-List: Modesto Bee article Hey listers, I have tried to read the the links on the articles on the Subject accident and my pages error out. It says they do not exist I would like to read the outcome if anyone can give me some guidance as to where else I can find it. Thanks, Rich Simmons 601XL Waiting on direction from the brain tank i guess I need to buy another airplane if i want to fly now! do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:35 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Modesto Bee article I can't help you with the archives Rich. But your problem is not unique. There appear to be a few people around here who think the accidents do not exist also. Before you flame, look up humour. do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rich Simmons To: Server, Zenith-List Digest Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 5:15 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Modesto Bee article Hey listers, I have tried to read the the links on the articles on the Subject accident and my pages error out. It says they do not exist I would like to read the outcome if anyone can give me some guidance as to where else I can find it. Thanks, Rich Simmons 601XL Waiting on direction from the brain tank i guess I need to buy another airplane if i want to fly now! do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:39 PM PST US From: "George Race" Subject: Zenith-List: Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT www.mykitairplane.com Click on the Chat Room link on the page. George Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:09 PM PST US From: "steve" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" Whats there to chat about ? ----- Original Message ----- From: George Race To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT www.mykitairplane.com Click on the Chat Room link on the page. George Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:26:01 PM PST US From: Gary Gower Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue. Is very important for all of us, listers here, to write connecting our hand s to our brain.- - Also I know that is dificult (for all of us) to understand that the wonderf ull wise comments from Sabrina, come from a very bright and inteligent Teen Ager that also legally is Minor of age.-- WE are not reading something from an active o retired Aeronautical Engineer in their 50's plus!- Lets PLEASE write with respect. - We Have alway keep in- mind to write as proper as we can,- even if some of the members of your own family will not deserve it. - We all will be very sorry if the parents of Sabrina will not let here be in the list,- we will certenly loose a member with great potencial. - Fo all of us,- We all know that the email is to let people act (write) wi thout facing the other person, but that is a coward action.- If I was his father, I will be very mad with that coward! - Sincerely I dont want to know who is he.- Because I will sure be very mad when I meet him in person... - Sabrina, I am sorry for this.- I admire you very much, hope we can keep y ou here...- - Saludos Gary Gower. Love this list,-hope have only friends, when I will meet any member perso naly at OSH or S&F some year in the near-future. - --- On Fri, 4/17/09, Sabrina wrote: From: Sabrina Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue The guy behind ZBAG wrote me a 3 page e-mail calling me and comparing me to STALIN. When I forwarded it to my parents they were not too pleased. T his new stuff is going to get to my parents and I may have to leave the list... please EDIT your comments, PLEASE... Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239799#239799 =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:14 PM PST US From: "Roger & Lina Hill" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" Oh, I betcha I could guess what it's going to be about... Roger _____ From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 4:46 PM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" Whats there to chat about ? ----- Original Message ----- From: George Race Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 2:31 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Chat Room Reminder For "Digesters" Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT www.mykitairplane.com Click on the Chat Room link on the page. George Do Not Archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:19 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue. so who is the dude behind ZBAG? Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Gary Gower >Sent: Apr 19, 2009 7:25 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue. > >Is very important for all of us, listers here, to write connecting our hands to our brain. > >Also I know that is dificult (for all of us) to understand that the wonderfull wise comments from Sabrina, come from a very bright and inteligent Teen Ager that also legally is Minor of age. WE are not reading something from an active o retired Aeronautical Engineer in their 50's plus! Lets PLEASE write with respect. > >We Have alway keep in mind to write as proper as we can, even if some of the members of your own family will not deserve it. > >We all will be very sorry if the parents of Sabrina will not let here be in the list, we will certenly loose a member with great potencial. > >Fo all of us, We all know that the email is to let people act (write) without facing the other person, but that is a coward action. If I was his father, I will be very mad with that coward! > >Sincerely I dont want to know who is he. Because I will sure be very mad when I meet him in person... > >Sabrina, I am sorry for this. I admire you very much, hope we can keep you here... > >Saludos >Gary Gower. >Love this list,hope have only friends, when I will meet any member personaly at OSH or S&F some year in the nearfuture. > > >--- On Fri, 4/17/09, Sabrina wrote: > >From: Sabrina >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: ZBAGers to the rescue >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Date: Friday, April 17, 2009, 7:45 PM > > > >The guy behind ZBAG wrote me a 3 page e-mail calling me and comparing me to >STALIN. When I forwarded it to my parents they were not too pleased. This >new stuff is going to get to my parents and I may have to leave the list... >please EDIT your comments, PLEASE... > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239799#239799 > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:42 PM PST US From: JohnDRead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: cable tension 601 hds ? Hi Roger; Page 29 of my 1995 CH601 HDS Construction Manual says the tension should be between 30 and 40 lbs. Hoper this helps. John Read CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300 Phone: 303-648-3261 Fax: 303-648-3262 Cell: 719-494-4567 In a message dated 4/17/2009 7:34:22 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time, hills@sunflower.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "Roger & Lina Hill" Howdy all; I have my annual inspection on Saturday, and for the life of me I can't find the 601 HDS cable tension specs. Does anyone know what the elevator and rudder cables should be tension to on a 601 hds? Thanks Roger **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. 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