Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:27 AM - Blah, blah, blah (Richard Vetterli)
2. 06:44 AM - Re: Blah, blah, blah (Jay Maynard)
3. 07:42 AM - Re: Blah, blah, blah (Richard Vetterli)
4. 08:16 AM - Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (Gig Giacona)
5. 08:59 AM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (Rick Lindstrom)
6. 09:04 AM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (jaybannist@cs.com)
7. 09:30 AM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (Carlos Sa)
8. 09:34 AM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (jaybannist@cs.com)
9. 09:38 AM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (Gig Giacona)
10. 10:09 AM - String answer_PTT question (Bill Naumuk)
11. 10:17 AM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (thesumak@aol.com)
12. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (Rick Lindstrom)
13. 11:16 AM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (Rick Lindstrom)
14. 11:20 AM - Re: String answer_PTT question (Juan Vega)
15. 11:43 AM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (Bryan Martin)
16. 11:55 AM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin. Off Theme can delete (Gary Gower)
17. 12:11 PM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin. Off Theme can delete (Rick Lindstrom)
18. 12:12 PM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (jaybannist@cs.com)
19. 01:23 PM - Single stick, Fred Sanford (Bill Naumuk)
20. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: Blah, blah, blah (Dave)
21. 01:24 PM - Re: BSR Chute (Clyde Barcus)
22. 01:28 PM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (Dave)
23. 01:48 PM - CC14 Update (annken100)
24. 02:14 PM - Whatever happened to Subies (Dave)
25. 02:32 PM - Re: String answer_PTT question (Clive Richards)
26. 03:34 PM - Re: Whatever happened to Subies (Bill Naumuk)
27. 03:52 PM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (JohnDRead@aol.com)
28. 03:59 PM - Re: String answer_PTT question (Bill Naumuk)
29. 04:01 PM - Re: BSR Chute (JohnDRead@aol.com)
30. 04:04 PM - Still Have 601 HD/XL Tail Parts for Sale (Andrew Hinsdale)
31. 04:09 PM - Re: Whatever happened to Subies (Dave)
32. 04:09 PM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (n801bh@netzero.com)
33. 04:13 PM - Y stick, correction (Bill Naumuk)
34. 04:20 PM - Re: Sun N Fun flyin in a 601xl ()
35. 04:25 PM - Re: Whatever happened to Subies (Bill Naumuk)
36. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: Blah, blah, blah (Randy L. Thwing)
37. 05:05 PM - Re: Whatever happened to Subies (purplemoon99@bellsouth.net)
38. 05:09 PM - Re: Sun N Fun flyin in a 601xl (Juan Vega)
39. 05:40 PM - Re: Re: Blah, blah, blah (n801bh@netzero.com)
40. 05:43 PM - Re: Blah, blah, blah (PatrickW)
41. 05:52 PM - Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin (Ron Lendon)
42. 05:55 PM - Re: BSR Chute (PatrickW)
43. 06:07 PM - Landing mistake (Dan Wilde)
44. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: BSR Chute (Jay Maynard)
45. 06:57 PM - Is the Subaru falling behind these days? (LarryMcFarland)
46. 08:00 PM - Re: BSR Chute (Gig Giacona)
47. 08:03 PM - bushings (Carlos Sa)
48. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: BSR Chute (Craig Payne)
49. 09:06 PM - Re: BSR Chute (cookwithgas)
50. 09:48 PM - Re: Re: BSR Chute (Stanley Challgren)
51. 10:18 PM - Re: Re: BSR Chute (Craig Payne)
52. 11:36 PM - Re: BSR Chute (Martin Pohl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Blah, blah, blah |
I'm Rich Vetterli, just finishing up my Corvair powered 601XL, based at Livermore,
CA (LVK). I was at Sun & Fun and spent time talking with the Heintz's, as
well as many other builders (both Zenith & non). When I got home, I went back
to building. I am so close, I can almost smell the AW certificate. My plane
was designed well, was built well, will be inspected well and will be flown
within the recommended flight envelope. If Zenith recommeds that I fix something,
I will. Until then, I'm going to be happily flying while many others are
spending way too much time arguing over what may be a non-issue. Am I concerned,
yes. But the sky is not falling yet, as far as I can tell. Matt at Matronics,
you might want to think about booting a few of the posters that are hijacking
this list away from actual builders.
Fly safe and keep building.
Rich Vetterli
N56DV
99% done, 5% to go.
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Blah, blah, blah |
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 06:26:19AM -0700, Richard Vetterli wrote:
> Matt at Matronics, you might want to think about booting a few of the
> posters that are hijacking this list away from actual builders.
Uhm...not everyone wih a legitimate interest in the Zodiac and its safety is
a builder. Would you throw me off the list too just because I bought mine?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 3
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| Subject: | re: Blah, blah, blah |
Sorry, I should have said Zenith builders & owners.
Rich
Do not archive
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| Subject: | Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
I found out yesterday that some of the Matronics lists have moderators. I then
emailed Matt and suggested that the Zenith list probably needs one.
First, I am not applying for the job. If nominated I will not run, if elected I
will not serve. But I'm sure many of you will agree that this place is going
to hell in a handbag and that is sad.
I haven't received a reply from Matt but if you agree or disagree please reply
to this message and I'll point Matt to what the list's feelings on the issue.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241644#241644
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
I dunno, Gig. I see the need for moderators on things like political sites, but
a builder's site is a bit different. We're SUPPOSED to be talking about airplanes
(specifically their construction and operation) here, but sometimes it turns
into someone trying to force their opinion up our butts or get recognized
as a minor diety from splitting a Buick in two with their bare hands.
Personally, I prefer an unmoderated forum, even if the subject tends to drift off
course occasionally. Even with all the vitriol and finger-pointing, I'd much
rather entertain all the varied perspectives than have a Net Nanny rapping my
knuckles with a ruler whenever the envelope was pushed a bit.
And if people act like clods occasionally, I say let 'em. How else are you gonna
know who not to sit next to at the BBQ?
Freedom good. Censorship bad.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>Sent: Apr 28, 2009 8:15 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
>
>
>I found out yesterday that some of the Matronics lists have moderators. I then
emailed Matt and suggested that the Zenith list probably needs one.
>
>First, I am not applying for the job. If nominated I will not run, if elected
I will not serve. But I'm sure many of you will agree that this place is going
to hell in a handbag and that is sad.
>
>I haven't received a reply from Matt but if you agree or disagree please reply
to this message and I'll point Matt to what the list's feelings on the issue.
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241644#241644
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
AGREE !!
-----Original Message-----
From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:15 am
Subject: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
I found out yesterday that some of the Matronics lists have moderators. I then
emailed Matt and suggested that the Zenith list probably needs one.
First, I am not applying for the job. If nominated I will not run, if elected I
will not serve. But I'm sure many of you will agree that this place is going to
hell in a handbag and that is sad.
I haven't received a reply from Matt but if you agree or disagree please reply
to this message and I'll point Matt to what the list's feelings on the issue.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241644#241644
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
Please ! As long as the function of the moderator is to enforce the already
existing (but frequently not observed) matronics guidelines.
Carlos
do not archive
2009/4/28 Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>
> I found out yesterday that some of the Matronics lists have moderators. I
> then emailed Matt and suggested that the Zenith list probably needs one.
>
> First, I am not applying for the job. If nominated I will not run, if
> elected I will not serve. But I'm sure many of you will agree that this
> place is going to hell in a handbag and that is sad.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
Rick,
Remember, freedom of speech still doesn't allow yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater
when there is none. Neither should freedom of speech allow posters to violate
the rules of this forum.? One of those rules is no personal attacks.? You
and I know that this is commonly violated and, in my opinion, those attacks SHOULD
be censored.
I know I am not the guy to do that, but I do believe that there is a level-headed,
responsible person out there that could. I recognize that finding and electing
that person might pose a problem.
My totally unbiased but humble opinion - Jay
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:58 am
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
I dunno, Gig. I see the need for moderators on things like political sites, but
a builder's site is a bit different. We're SUPPOSED to be talking about
airplanes (specifically their construction and operation) here, but sometimes it
turns into someone trying to force their opinion up our butts or get recognized
as a minor diety from splitting a Buick in two with their bare hands.
Personally, I prefer an unmoderated forum, even if the subject tends to drift
off course occasionally. Even with all the vitriol and finger-pointing, I'd much
rather entertain all the varied perspectives than have a Net Nanny rapping my
knuckles with a ruler whenever the envelope was pushed a bit.
And if people act like clods occasionally, I say let 'em. How else are you gonna
know who not to sit next to at the BBQ?
Freedom good. Censorship bad.
Rick
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
Rick I actually agree with you. I hate moderated forums. BUT...
It is my feeling we have reached a point where the list is losing its ability to
do what it is supposed to. And while "This too shall pass," may come into play
people are leaving the list now and something needs to be done about it.
What I propose is a system where only the real problems get screened. We'd have
to work with Matt on the actual process because there are really two lists within
each list. First the traditional email list and then the web forum.
We might even be able to or even have to deal with it in a suspension/ban method
where 3 or 5 members are selected and if they agree a poster has gotten out
of line that the poster be first warned then suspended from posting then banned.
Again we would have to work with Matt on the how.
I'm in no way suggesting that off topic or even heated interchanges of ideas be
banned. What I would like to see is some civility returned and the only way I
see that happening is some level of moderation when a poster goes off the reservation.
And there are people on both sides of the fence of late that may have gone over
the line somewhat.
If you have a better way to deal with it Rick please speak up.
tigerrick(at)mindspring.c wrote:
> I dunno, Gig. I see the need for moderators on things like political sites, but
a builder's site is a bit different. We're SUPPOSED to be talking about airplanes
(specifically their construction and operation) here, but sometimes it
turns into someone trying to force their opinion up our butts or get recognized
as a minor diety from splitting a Buick in two with their bare hands.
> --
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241670#241670
Message 10
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| Subject: | String answer_PTT question |
All-
1. We should police ourselves. That is not Matt's job. I think we
all realize that things have gotten out of hand. Ignore and refuse to
respond to posts that have passed the boundary line of libel and force
yourselves to return to building questions. You can't feed the fire and
expect relief from the heat.
2. Headphone console complete, wiring the PTT switch. Was going to
use a Ray Allen handgrip for the pilot side and a Zenith for the other.
Guess what. The Ray Allen fits one of the "Horns" of a Y stick, but both
the factory Zenith handgrips will only work if you cut the "Y" off. A
lister sent me a picture of a Y stick cut down to a single a couple of
months ago. I saved it in my "Keepers" file but damned if can't find it.
If you're out there, did you modify one of the Zenith grips to work with
a Ray Allen switch? Please resend picture of your installation.
3. Thanks to the fine people at Sigtronics, I was able to (Hopefully
correctly) wire for a combination U174/ Standard mic/headphone jack.
Beautiful helo headsets are available for 25% the price of standard,
probably because of the U174 connection hassles. Schematic for an
A200/SPA400 available from me on request.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS 601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
Concerning the prospect of a moderator, I'm just one vote, but I think things would
need to get much worse before we need a moderator or committee of moderators.?
As I said before, I do not find it difficult at all to separate the wheat
from the chaff on this forum.
Cheers,
Bill
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
In the old AVSIG days, with my trusty 286 PC, a "Hot Section" forum was created
when the civil discourse became heated. At that point, the offending discussions
were moved there so the combatants could duke it out to their heart's content.
And the rest of us were spared, unless we wanted to pop some corn and watch
for entertainment's sake.
Maybe something like that would work here, where those who needed to vent their
spleens, could. And the rest of us wouldn't have to watch.
Rick
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>Sent: Apr 28, 2009 12:37 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
>
>
>Rick I actually agree with you. I hate moderated forums. BUT...
>
>It is my feeling we have reached a point where the list is losing its ability
to do what it is supposed to. And while "This too shall pass," may come into play
people are leaving the list now and something needs to be done about it.
>
>What I propose is a system where only the real problems get screened. We'd have
to work with Matt on the actual process because there are really two lists within
each list. First the traditional email list and then the web forum.
>
>We might even be able to or even have to deal with it in a suspension/ban method
where 3 or 5 members are selected and if they agree a poster has gotten out
of line that the poster be first warned then suspended from posting then banned.
Again we would have to work with Matt on the how.
>
>I'm in no way suggesting that off topic or even heated interchanges of ideas be
banned. What I would like to see is some civility returned and the only way
I see that happening is some level of moderation when a poster goes off the reservation.
>
>And there are people on both sides of the fence of late that may have gone over
the line somewhat.
>
>If you have a better way to deal with it Rick please speak up.
>
>
>
>
>tigerrick(at)mindspring.c wrote:
>> I dunno, Gig. I see the need for moderators on things like political sites,
but a builder's site is a bit different. We're SUPPOSED to be talking about airplanes
(specifically their construction and operation) here, but sometimes it
turns into someone trying to force their opinion up our butts or get recognized
as a minor diety from splitting a Buick in two with their bare hands.
>> --
>
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241670#241670
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
Hi, Jay!
Yelling FIRE in a theatre may have disasterous consequences, but occasionally pointing
out that someone is a baboon results in what real damage? Hurt feelings?
Bruised egos?
I agree that personal attacks have no place here, but it's really up to us to avoid
engaging in such behavior. And we should remain free to question the motives
of anyone who is on the attack, and not depend on someone else to decide for
us. And when someone really steps over the line, I haven't seen any great reluctance
here for others to call BS. As it should be.
Yeah, and I don't especially like autopilots, either. ;-)
Rick
PS And if you ever do find that "level-headed, responsible person", make them run
for public office! Quick!!
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: jaybannist@cs.com
>Sent: Apr 28, 2009 12:33 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
>
>
> Rick,
>
>Remember, freedom of speech still doesn't allow yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater
when there is none. Neither should freedom of speech allow posters to violate
the rules of this forum.? One of those rules is no personal attacks.? You
and I know that this is commonly violated and, in my opinion, those attacks
SHOULD be censored.
>
>I know I am not the guy to do that, but I do believe that there is a level-headed,
responsible person out there that could. I recognize that finding and electing
that person might pose a problem.
>
>My totally unbiased but humble opinion - Jay
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick@mindspring.com>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:58 am
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
>
>
>
>I dunno, Gig. I see the need for moderators on things like political sites, but
>a builder's site is a bit different. We're SUPPOSED to be talking about
>airplanes (specifically their construction and operation) here, but sometimes
it
>turns into someone trying to force their opinion up our butts or get recognized
>as a minor diety from splitting a Buick in two with their bare hands.
>
>Personally, I prefer an unmoderated forum, even if the subject tends to drift
>off course occasionally. Even with all the vitriol and finger-pointing, I'd much
>rather entertain all the varied perspectives than have a Net Nanny rapping my
>knuckles with a ruler whenever the envelope was pushed a bit.
>
>And if people act like clods occasionally, I say let 'em. How else are you gonna
>know who not to sit next to at the BBQ?
>
>Freedom good. Censorship bad.
>
>Rick
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: String answer_PTT question |
Billy
I am flying through Georgia on the 601 May 19th or 20th. Where are you as I may
stop by and say Hi!
I am going to go golfing and fishing for 5 days in the Highlands and will fly in
to a lower altitude field on the SC side, then rent a car.
Juan Vega
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bill Naumuk <naumuk@windstream.net>
>Sent: Apr 28, 2009 1:05 PM
>To: zenith list <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: String answer_PTT question
>
>All-
> 1. We should police ourselves. That is not Matt's job. I think we all realize
that things have gotten out of hand. Ignore and refuse to respond to posts
that have passed the boundary line of libel and force yourselves to return to
building questions. You can't feed the fire and expect relief from the heat.
> 2. Headphone console complete, wiring the PTT switch. Was going to use a Ray
Allen handgrip for the pilot side and a Zenith for the other. Guess what. The
Ray Allen fits one of the "Horns" of a Y stick, but both the factory Zenith
handgrips will only work if you cut the "Y" off. A lister sent me a picture of
a Y stick cut down to a single a couple of months ago. I saved it in my "Keepers"
file but damned if can't find it. If you're out there, did you modify one
of the Zenith grips to work with a Ray Allen switch? Please resend picture of
your installation.
> 3. Thanks to the fine people at Sigtronics, I was able to (Hopefully correctly)
wire for a combination U174/ Standard mic/headphone jack. Beautiful helo
headsets are available for 25% the price of standard, probably because of the
U174 connection hassles. Schematic for an A200/SPA400 available from me on request.
>Bill Naumuk
>Townville, Pa.
>HDS 601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
I don't think we need a moderator. It's not that difficult create a
rule in my mail client to block anyone I no longer care to hear from.
It wouldn't be so easy for the digest subscribers though.
On Apr 28, 2009, at 11:15 AM, Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> I found out yesterday that some of the Matronics lists have
> moderators. I then emailed Matt and suggested that the Zenith list
> probably needs one.
>
> First, I am not applying for the job. If nominated I will not run,
> if elected I will not serve. But I'm sure many of you will agree
> that this place is going to hell in a handbag and that is sad.
>
> I haven't received a reply from Matt but if you agree or disagree
> please reply to this message and I'll point Matt to what the list's
> feelings on the issue.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin. Off |
Theme can delete
This post is off theme, not related, so you can delete or read.
-
Hello Gig,
-
This post of you,- just reminded me about something that happened in our
flying club/aerodrome some years ago.-- We had (as normal) a President,
Vice President, Treasurer, etc.
Well, being a President or Vice was a real problem.- Every complain was n
eeded to be taken care.- The grass,- the lights,- the fence, the road
around the hangars,- you name it...
-
So no one will "jump" for President or will resign shortly.- To correct t
his. in one meeting we came out with this "rule":-
"The active member that complains has to get in charge of the problem until
-repaired or corrected,-he can give give the-Treasurer the notes of
-what was spent. mean time the members wil be asking him about how his wo
rk is progressing..."- Has worked perfectly since.
-
Was a wonderfull law...- Now the Club is (almost)- PERFECT...- Just a
few complains from the "has to be done" type of members... :-)-- (we c
an find them all over the World).
-
Also the "Real" Active members, are happy to get the jobs done.- Sure now
our Club looks good.
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
Happy Flying from Chapala, Mexico in a perfect airstrip. :-)
Do not archive.
--- On Tue, 4/28/09, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
<wrgiacona@gmail.com>
I found out yesterday that some of the Matronics lists have moderators. I t
hen
emailed Matt and suggested that the Zenith list probably needs one.
First, I am not applying for the job. If nominated I will not run, if elect
ed I
will not serve. But I'm sure many of you will agree that this place is goin
g
to hell in a handbag and that is sad.
I haven't received a reply from Matt but if you agree or disagree please
reply to this message and I'll point Matt to what the list's feelings on
the issue.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241644#241644
=0A=0A=0A
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin. |
Off Theme can delete
Excellent solution, Gary! Reminds me of an old U. Utah Phillips bit...
"My gawd! THAT's moose turd pie!! It's good, though..."
Rick
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Apr 28, 2009 2:54 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin.
Off Theme can delete
>
>This post is off theme, not related, so you can delete or read.
>
>Hello Gig,
>
>This post of you, just reminded me about something that happened in our flying
club/aerodrome some years ago. We had (as normal) a President, Vice President,
Treasurer, etc.
>Well, being a President or Vice was a real problem. Every complain was needed
to be taken care. The grass, the lights, the fence, the road around the hangars,
you name it...
>
>So no one will "jump" for President or will resign shortly. To correct this.
in one meeting we came out with this "rule":
>"The active member that complains has to get in charge of the problem until repaired
or corrected, he can give give the Treasurer the notes of what was spent.
mean time the members wil be asking him about how his work is progressing..."
Has worked perfectly since.
>
>Was a wonderfull law... Now the Club is (almost) PERFECT... Just a few complains
from the "has to be done" type of members... :-) (we can find them all
over the World).
>
>Also the "Real" Active members, are happy to get the jobs done. Sure now our
Club looks good.
>
>Saludos
>Gary Gower
>Happy Flying from Chapala, Mexico in a perfect airstrip. :-)
>Do not archive.
>
>--- On Tue, 4/28/09, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>Subject: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 11:15 AM
>
><wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>
>I found out yesterday that some of the Matronics lists have moderators. I then
>emailed Matt and suggested that the Zenith list probably needs one.
>
>First, I am not applying for the job. If nominated I will not run, if elected
I
>will not serve. But I'm sure many of you will agree that this place is going
>to hell in a handbag and that is sad.
>
>I haven't received a reply from Matt but if you agree or disagree please
>reply to this message and I'll point Matt to what the list's feelings on
>the issue.
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241644#241644
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
Rick,
Just a clarification: My point was not about consequences.? I just wanted to point
out that there are some very legitimate limitations on free speech. I've got
a pretty thick hide myself, so I can take some abuse.? But there are forum
rules and if there is not a need for them or they are not enforced, why even have
them?? I happen to think they are good rules and that they should be enforced,
somehow.? Obviously, there are some that adamantly (or ignorantly) disagree;
and those folks seem to contribute nothing but a combative free for all. I
would like to see us get back to the real purpose of the forum
Jay
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 1:14 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
Hi, Jay!
Yelling FIRE in a theatre may have disasterous consequences, but occasionally
pointing out that someone is a baboon results in what real damage? Hurt
feelings? Bruised egos?
I agree that personal attacks have no place here, but it's really up to us to
avoid engaging in such behavior. And we should remain free to question the
motives of anyone who is on the attack, and not depend on someone else to decide
for us. And when someone really steps over the line, I haven't seen any great
reluctance here for others to call BS. As it should be.
Yeah, and I don't especially like autopilots, either. ;-)
Rick
PS And if you ever do find that "level-headed, responsible person", make them
run for public office! Quick!!
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: jaybannist@cs.com
>Sent: Apr 28, 2009 12:33 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
>
>
> Rick,
>
>Remember, freedom of speech still doesn't allow yelling "FIRE" in a crowded
theater when there is none. Neither should freedom of speech allow posters to
violate the rules of this forum.? One of those rules is no personal attacks.?
You and I know that this is commonly violated and, in my opinion, those attacks
SHOULD be censored.
>
>I know I am not the guy to do that, but I do believe that there is a
level-headed, responsible person out there that could. I recognize that finding
and electing that person might pose a problem.
>
>My totally unbiased but humble opinion - Jay
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick Lindstrom <tigerrick@mindspring.com>
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:58 am
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
>
>
>
>I dunno, Gig. I see the need for moderators on things like political sites, but
>a builder's site is a bit different. We're SUPPOSED to be talking about
>airplanes (specifically their construction and operation) here, but sometimes
it
>turns into someone trying to force their opinion up our butts or get recognized
>as a minor diety from splitting a Buick in two with their bare hands.
>
>Personally, I prefer an unmoderated forum, even if the subject tends to drift
>off course occasionally. Even with all the vitriol and finger-pointing, I'd
much
>rather entertain all the varied perspectives than have a Net Nanny rapping my
>knuckles with a ruler whenever the envelope was pushed a bit.
>
>And if people act like clods occasionally, I say let 'em. How else are you
gonna
>know who not to sit next to at the BBQ?
>
>Freedom good. Censorship bad.
>
>Rick
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Single stick, Fred Sanford |
All-
Found from the archives that the post I spoke of earlier was sent by
Fred Sanford. Is there any way to open to an attached picture from an
archive file?
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS 601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: re: Blah, blah, blah |
When the concern about the 601 is addressed (either way), the discussion
around it will subside, so long as the incidents stop occurring. If you
choose to boot everyone off because their opinion does not happen to
coincide with your own how will potential builders research the aircraft?
There is no question that people have been far too insistant that their
opinion be universally accepted as fact, but that seems to be the nature of
some people these days. Take for instance your own opinion, you cast out the
notion that your aircraft and engine are well designed and built as fact,
when it is actually only an opinion. You have control only over yourself,
to seek to control or stifle contrary opinions hardly seems right, but then
maybe you have different notions of how much freedom we should have to
express ourselves.
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Vetterli" <richvetterli@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:41 AM
Subject: Zenith-List: re: Blah, blah, blah
> <richvetterli@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Sorry, I should have said Zenith builders & owners.
> Rich
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 21
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Check out the BRS Systems website, it list deployment of their parachutes,
type of aircraft and the altitude the chute was deployed at, it has been a
while since I checked their site but I believe they listed about 200 saves.
In regards to possible damage to the aircraft, that may be a moot point, I
am assuming a crash was inevitable or the chute would not have been
deployed.
Clyde Barcus
601 XL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Mulwitz" <psm@att.net>
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: BSR Chute
>
> My guess is that ballistic chutes are considerably less than 100 percent
> dependable.
>
> The chute and associated stuff can fail to operate properly.
>
> The attachment to our experimental airframes might just destroy the
> airframe rather than saving it.
>
> If deployed close to the ground, it might not have a chance to do its job
> before the plane meets the ground.
>
> And lastly, just for reference, I had a long discussion with a friend who
> flew fighters for the USAF for 20 years. He bailed out once from high
> altitude in an RB-66 over the Florida Everglades. His back was broken and
> he spent the next 6 months in the hospital. That was considered a
> successful ejection. The other guy in the same plane died before reaching
> the ground. In the end, he said the USAF considers a 50 percent fatality
> rate to be the expected result from an ejection.
>
> 'nuff said.
>
> Paul
> XL grounded
> do not archive
>
>
> At 12:30 PM 4/27/2009, you wrote:
>
>>All of the discussion about 601-XL wing break-ups leads me to consider a
>>BSR chute. Is there an aspect to such an event the might make the device
>>non-deployable or ineffective?
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
Absolutely right! Yes it sucks that anyone should have to put up with
someone actually disagreeing with them, but the opposite is undoubtedly far
worse. I find almost everything one member here says to be offensive, so far
it hasn't lost me any sleep.
Do not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Lindstrom" <tigerrick@mindspring.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin
> Freedom good. Censorship bad.
>
> Rick
>
Message 23
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Hey Gang,
I hate to interrupt all the 601 madness, but for those interested in powering their
601 with a corvair I posted a new update on the Corvair College 14 website.
Go to http://aerovair.com/Updates.html and click on the 4/27/2009 update link. If you are planning on attending please register by clicking on the registration link on the updates page. We have almost 50 people registered so far! If you have any questions please email me at corvaircollege14@gmail.com
Thank you,
Ken Pavlou
T-minus 24 days and counting
CC14 Promo videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7RlaLfkba0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaU6LYp-xSg
--------
601 XL / Corvair
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241726#241726
Message 24
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| Subject: | Whatever happened to Subies |
With all the madness about Corvair engines these days it seems the Subaru
engine has left the field. Is this just a passing fad, or did the Subie have
some less than desirable quality that the Corvair engine lacks? Perhaps it's
down to a talented promoter.
Is nobody selecting the Subaru any longer?
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: String answer_PTT question |
Bill
Copy of picture you were looking for attached plus a copy of our panel.
I am not sure of your problem, as far as I am
aware the vertical tube is the same diameter as the horns. We attached a
Ray Allen grip with trim & PTT switchs to LHS of Y , for the RHS we
fitted a small n/o switch for ptt into the top of the plastic grip
supplied & slid this onto the RHS of the Y using some lubrication with
no problem. We have a intercom fitted & find the Y stick comfortable &
easy to change control between pilots & for the co pilot to operate the
radio .
Clive
G CBDG 601HD 290 Hrs
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:05 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: String answer_PTT question
All-
2. Headphone console complete, wiring the PTT switch. Was going to
use a Ray Allen handgrip for the pilot side and a Zenith for the other.
Guess what. The Ray Allen fits one of the "Horns" of a Y stick, but both
the factory Zenith handgrips will only work if you cut the "Y" off. A
lister sent me a picture of a Y stick cut down to a single a couple of
months ago. I saved it in my "Keepers" file but damned if can't find it.
If you're out there, did you modify one of the Zenith grips to work with
a Ray Allen switch? Please resend picture of your installation.
3. Thanks to the fine people at Sigtronics, I was able to
(Hopefully correctly) wire for a combination U174/ Standard
mic/headphone jack. Beautiful helo headsets are available for 25% the
price of standard, probably because of the U174 connection hassles.
Schematic for an A200/SPA400 available from me on request.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS 601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Whatever happened to Subies |
Dave-
Choosing the Corvair can hardly be considered madness. I was originally
going to go with a Subaru installation, but it's heavier and quite a bit
more complex than something direct drive and air cooled. If you take your
glasses off, you'd swear a Corvair conversion was one of the 6 cyl
Continentals they used to put in C-172s. (O-345?) A case of where the auto
industry ripped off a proven design from aviation.
I don't think promotion is a factor. Pricewise, the two choices are
pretty equivalent. I have no idea what Subaru mod delivery times are, but
that has always been a sticking point for the Corvair.
Everything's a compromise.
Bill
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:13 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Whatever happened to Subies
>
> With all the madness about Corvair engines these days it seems the Subaru
> engine has left the field. Is this just a passing fad, or did the Subie
> have some less than desirable quality that the Corvair engine lacks?
> Perhaps it's down to a talented promoter.
>
> Is nobody selecting the Subaru any longer?
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
Monitor definitely needed. do not archive
John Read
CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
ilExcScore428NO62)
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: String answer_PTT question |
Clive-
Attached is a picture of my Y stick. To the left is the Zenith
supplied grip, to the right is the Ray Allen. I'm sure you can see the
step down from the main shaft of the Y to the ears, as well as the
obviously oversized Zenith supplied grip. I've been putting up with crap
like this for 6 years. Very few parts supplied were to plans and I wound
up having to modify them to fit or make them myself from scratch.
Thanks for the single stick picture. Looks like other than a stock
Ray Allen grip was used, and it sure isn't Zenith supplied.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Clive Richards
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: String answer_PTT question
Bill
Copy of picture you were looking for attached plus a copy of our
panel.
I am not sure of your problem, as far as I am
aware the vertical tube is the same diameter as the horns. We attached a
Ray Allen grip with trim & PTT switchs to LHS of Y , for the RHS we
fitted a small n/o switch for ptt into the top of the plastic grip
supplied & slid this onto the RHS of the Y using some lubrication with
no problem. We have a intercom fitted & find the Y stick comfortable &
easy to change control between pilots & for the co pilot to operate the
radio .
Clive
G CBDG 601HD 290 Hrs
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Naumuk
To: zenith list
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 6:05 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: String answer_PTT question
All-
2. Headphone console complete, wiring the PTT switch. Was going
to use a Ray Allen handgrip for the pilot side and a Zenith for the
other. Guess what. The Ray Allen fits one of the "Horns" of a Y stick,
but both the factory Zenith handgrips will only work if you cut the "Y"
off. A lister sent me a picture of a Y stick cut down to a single a
couple of months ago. I saved it in my "Keepers" file but damned if
can't find it. If you're out there, did you modify one of the Zenith
grips to work with a Ray Allen switch? Please resend picture of your
installation.
3. Thanks to the fine people at Sigtronics, I was able to
(Hopefully correctly) wire for a combination U174/ Standard
mic/headphone jack. Beautiful helo headsets are available for 25% the
price of standard, probably because of the U174 connection hassles.
Schematic for an A200/SPA400 available from me on request.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS 601MG/Corvair 95%
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 29
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The primary purpose of BRS chutes is to save the passengers, the airframe
is secondary. do not archive.
John Read
CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
ilExcScore428NO62)
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Still Have 601 HD/XL Tail Parts for Sale |
Hello Listers!=0A=0AThanks to the great response to my first email on parti
ng out my 601 HD/XL tail kit!- I have already sold the rivets, rivet pull
er, trim servo, and plans.- I still have a bunch of genuine Zenithair par
ts for sale - fiberglass tail tips (why make them, I'll sell cheap!) comple
te rib sets, upgraded pre-drilled XL-vertical tail (rudder control)-hor
n, front and rear spars - doublers, XL elevator horn parts - just ask me to
send you a price list and then make me an offer!=0A=0AThanks Again=0A=0AAn
dy Hinsdale=0ATucson AZ=0A=0A=0A
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Whatever happened to Subies |
A language difficulty perhaps. Madness as in intense excitement.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@windstream.net>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Whatever happened to Subies
>
> Dave-
> Choosing the Corvair can hardly be considered madness. I was originally
> going to go with a Subaru installation, but it's heavier and quite a bit
> more complex than something direct drive and air cooled. If you take your
> glasses off, you'd swear a Corvair conversion was one of the 6 cyl
> Continentals they used to put in C-172s. (O-345?) A case of where the auto
> industry ripped off a proven design from aviation.
> I don't think promotion is a factor. Pricewise, the two choices are
> pretty equivalent. I have no idea what Subaru mod delivery times are, but
> that has always been a sticking point for the Corvair.
> Everything's a compromise.
>
> Bill
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave" <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:13 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Whatever happened to Subies
>
>
>>
>> With all the madness about Corvair engines these days it seems the Subaru
>> engine has left the field. Is this just a passing fad, or did the Subie
>> have some less than desirable quality that the Corvair engine lacks?
>> Perhaps it's down to a talented promoter.
>>
>> Is nobody selecting the Subaru any longer?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
I vote for NO moderator, monitor or whatever you want to call it. Ya don
't like what ya see, simply hit the DELETE key..
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: JohnDRead@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List A
dmin
Monitor definitely needed. do not archive John Read
CH701 - Elbert CO - Jabiru 3300
Phone: 303-648-3261
Fax: 303-648-3262
Cell: 719-494-4567
An Excellx1221621499x1201450105/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.
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Message 33
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| Subject: | Y stick, correction |
All-
Reviewing the plans, the Y stick is correctly configured. 1-1/8"
tubing is to be used for the upright, but 1" for the ears. The grips
have a 1-1/4" ID, so I suppose the problem is that I got the wrong
grips.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS 601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Sun N Fun flyin in a 601xl |
Juan, you mentioned "that the NTSB was at odds with the FAA ..."etc. I
didn't know that, Do you remember what NTSB's position was? Just
curious.
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Juan Vega<mailto:amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
To: matronic list<mailto:zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 1:26 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Sun N Fun flyin in a 601xl
<amyvega2005@earthlink.net<mailto:amyvega2005@earthlink.net>>
ladies and germs;
saterday, Josh my 6 year old and I took off in the morning to Sun N
Fun in Rivet the Wonder PLane, our trusty 601xl. We took off in the
moring, from Albert Whitted, and got radio transfer to Tampa Traffic
for flight follwoing along the I-4 cooridor. we flew at 1200 ft AGL NE
bound and met up with a gaggle of ten other aircraft flying round the
LAke waiting to enter the pattern at SNF. Once in the pattern, we
landed on our orange dot and taxied in. They day was great with lots of
great oogling of other peoples' aircraft. Everyone we ran into that had
601s would speak aware of the NTSB report, knowing that the NTSB was at
odds with the FAA over the entire LSA program to begin with. Questions
were asked about the report.Notes were swapped. The consencous is the
following. The reports will be out soon. we will wait with our breaths
health till blue (tongune and cheek). Most agree a list of precautions
from Zentih will come out, such as wiggle the ailerons by hand du!
ring the preflight (that thing you are supposed to do before getting
in the plane) and if the stick has lag in it the plane cable should b
tightened to the point of no slack. Also make sure that the flaps are
tight in the up positions. meaning the flap stop has to be in place and
the flap needs to lock up tightly for no play. How is that done? well
there is enough twist in the flap that the stop servo can be moved up
1mm , so that when it goes to the up position, it hits the plastci stop
then continues for 1 to 2 mm before stopping the motor ensuring a good
locked up position. How many of us are flying with loosy goosy flaps?
also stuff like retorquing( you know that fuinny looking wrench you
hopefully used during your build)all the bolts on wings , motor mounts,
body, etc.. every 100 hours or so.
Other than that we flew back home, in our 601xl, happy as pigs in
mud.
>From sunny Florida.
Juan Vega3300, 601 xl
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Whatever happened to Subies |
Frequently used in homebuilding. Both interpretations apply.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Whatever happened to Subies
>
> A language difficulty perhaps. Madness as in intense excitement.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@windstream.net>
> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Whatever happened to Subies
>
>
>>
>> Dave-
>> Choosing the Corvair can hardly be considered madness. I was
>> originally going to go with a Subaru installation, but it's heavier and
>> quite a bit more complex than something direct drive and air cooled. If
>> you take your glasses off, you'd swear a Corvair conversion was one of
>> the 6 cyl Continentals they used to put in C-172s. (O-345?) A case of
>> where the auto industry ripped off a proven design from aviation.
>> I don't think promotion is a factor. Pricewise, the two choices are
>> pretty equivalent. I have no idea what Subaru mod delivery times are, but
>> that has always been a sticking point for the Corvair.
>> Everything's a compromise.
>>
>> Bill
>> do not archive
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dave" <d.goddard@ns.sympatico.ca>
>> To: <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 5:13 PM
>> Subject: Zenith-List: Whatever happened to Subies
>>
>>
>>>
>>> With all the madness about Corvair engines these days it seems the
>>> Subaru engine has left the field. Is this just a passing fad, or did the
>>> Subie have some less than desirable quality that the Corvair engine
>>> lacks? Perhaps it's down to a talented promoter.
>>>
>>> Is nobody selecting the Subaru any longer?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: re: Blah, blah, blah |
Do not archive
You know, one reason there is no discussion about building aircraft is that
no one is asking any questions about building aircraft.
If someone asked a question about building issues, one might get responses
to building issues, which equals discussion.
I'll be the bigger man and start things off:
What color Scotchbrite is safe for 6061 aluminum?
Best Regards to All,
Randy, Las Vegas
>
> When the concern about the 601 is addressed (either way), the discussion
> around it will subside, so long as the incidents stop occurring. If you
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Whatever happened to Subies |
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Sun N Fun flyin in a 601xl |
in the coffee conversations i have had with various manufacturers, there is tension
between the FAA and NTSB. Apparently the NTSB is not a big fan of the ASTM
and LSA rules. The FAA was lobbied hard and was more in favor of the rules
which were eventually passed for pilot class limitations. NTSB still has the
basic issue of a driver license and flight threshholds with LSA. This applies
for EAB. Remember EAB is very loose. There are very few aircraft that have
been ever denyed a permit to fly. The restricions vary, but if you submitted
a EAB request for a lead weight with a nuclear engine and wings, the FAA may
reistrict it to a one flight per day round the patch, but under the EAB rules
they will pass it. NTSB ust by its nature, is risk averse, opposite to the
EAB mission and rules.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: paulrod36@msn.com
>Sent: Apr 28, 2009 7:07 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Sun N Fun flyin in a 601xl
>
>Juan, you mentioned "that the NTSB was at odds with the FAA ..."etc. I didn't
know that, Do you remember what NTSB's position was? Just curious.
>
>Paul Rodriguez
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Juan Vega<mailto:amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
> To: matronic list<mailto:zenith-list-digest@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 1:26 PM
> Subject: Zenith-List: Sun N Fun flyin in a 601xl
>
>
>
> ladies and germs;
> saterday, Josh my 6 year old and I took off in the morning to Sun N Fun in Rivet
the Wonder PLane, our trusty 601xl. We took off in the moring, from Albert
Whitted, and got radio transfer to Tampa Traffic for flight follwoing along
the I-4 cooridor. we flew at 1200 ft AGL NE bound and met up with a gaggle
of ten other aircraft flying round the LAke waiting to enter the pattern at SNF.
Once in the pattern, we landed on our orange dot and taxied in. They day
was great with lots of great oogling of other peoples' aircraft. Everyone we
ran into that had 601s would speak aware of the NTSB report, knowing that the
NTSB was at odds with the FAA over the entire LSA program to begin with. Questions
were asked about the report.Notes were swapped. The consencous is the
following. The reports will be out soon. we will wait with our breaths health
till blue (tongune and cheek). Most agree a list of precautions from Zentih
will come out, such as wiggle the ailerons by hand
du!
> ring the preflight (that thing you are supposed to do before getting in the
plane) and if the stick has lag in it the plane cable should b tightened to
the point of no slack. Also make sure that the flaps are tight in the up positions.
meaning the flap stop has to be in place and the flap needs to lock up
tightly for no play. How is that done? well there is enough twist in the flap
that the stop servo can be moved up 1mm , so that when it goes to the up position,
it hits the plastci stop then continues for 1 to 2 mm before stopping the
motor ensuring a good locked up position. How many of us are flying with loosy
goosy flaps?
> also stuff like retorquing( you know that fuinny looking wrench you hopefully
used during your build)all the bolts on wings , motor mounts, body, etc.. every
100 hours or so.
> Other than that we flew back home, in our 601xl, happy as pigs in mud.
>
> >From sunny Florida.
>
> Juan Vega3300, 601 xl
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: re: Blah, blah, blah |
I hereby suggest we now call Randy the part in the middle of the washing
machine,,,
"THE AGITATOR" From one troublemaker to another. <GG>
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: re: Blah, blah, blah
com>
Do not archive
You know, one reason there is no discussion about building aircraft is t
hat
no one is asking any questions about building aircraft.
If someone asked a question about building issues, one might get respons
es
to building issues, which equals discussion.
I'll be the bigger man and start things off:
What color Scotchbrite is safe for 6061 aluminum?
Best Regards to All,
Randy, Las Vegas
>
> When the concern about the 601 is addressed (either way), the discussi
on
> around it will subside, so long as the incidents stop occurring. If yo
u
========================
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========================
===========
========================
===========
========================
===========
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Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Blah, blah, blah |
richvetterli(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> I'm Rich Vetterli, just finishing up my Corvair powered 601XL
Hey Rich - I've enjoyed watching your progress.
We met at CC#13 in Cloverdale, CA. I remember you pulling up in that hot rod PT
Cruiser, and I helped you carry your engine into the QSP hanger.
That weekend really stands out in my memory. We talked a lot about our building
experiences, and the similarity of our experiences amazed me. I had a lot of
fun, and those few days stand out as some of my most enjoyable days in aviation.
It is highly motivating to flash forward to the present, and see that your engine
is now running, and that your airframe is essentially complete. I'm about
a year behind you, and when I see what you've done, I see what I can do.
Looking forward to seeing you again. Perhaps some day I'll park my airplane next
to yours and we can catch up...
- Pat
--------
Patrick
XL/650/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241786#241786
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Does the Zenith List Need A Moderator / List Admin |
No moderator. Let's talk about building.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241791#241791
Message 42
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I am going with a BRS parachute in deference to my non-pilot wife, who asked, "what
if you have a heart attack or something? What happens to me?".
I'd made the BRS decision before the accidents started, and I've never understood
the controversy that some pilots seem to have on this subject. Probably similar
to motorcycle helmets, or when cars first came out with seat belts.
If I ever need to pull that handle, it would have to be a last-ditch life or death
situation. Even if the BRS only had a 50% chance of working, 50% is a lot
better than 0%. In a situation like that, you don't care about the airplane
anymore.
Pictures of my installation are here: http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Hoyt/BRS#
- Pat
--------
Patrick
XL/650/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241794#241794
Message 43
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Last Saturday I took my wife to Los Banos for lunch. We took off from
our 900 foot strip (701) and headed south. It was quite bumpy down low
so we powered up to 3500' and it was nice. Since Los Banos is only 30
minutes away, even in a 701 we were quickly descending back into the
rough air to set up for landing.
On downwind we noticed there was no one around at all at the airport.
No planes, humans or dogs. I turned base and final and set up for the
landing. We came over the numbers and the plane started settling down.
I started my flair and felt nothing. No chirp, no bump, nothing until
the nose wheel settled down. This was my best landing ever and there
was no one there to see it except my wife and she did not think it was a
big deal! Of course my next landing will be in front of a lot of people
and it will likely be a real thumper.
Dan Wilde
N948DW
Message 44
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On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 05:55:29PM -0700, PatrickW wrote:
> I am going with a BRS parachute in deference to my non-pilot wife, who
> asked, "what if you have a heart attack or something? What happens to
> me?".
There's an easier way: teach her to fly! :-) That's what I'm doing with my
roommate.
> I'd made the BRS decision before the accidents started, and I've never
> understood the controversy that some pilots seem to have on this subject.
> Probably similar to motorcycle helmets, or when cars first came out with
> seat belts.
I think the BRS is fine if you've got 40 pounds of useful load to devote to
it. My Zodiac was heavy enough as it is.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, AGI http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 45
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| Subject: | Is the Subaru falling behind these days? |
Hi guys,
The Subaru engine is still a healthy market, albeit a small one. Several
of the marketers of FWF Subaru fell off the shelf because they promised
more than they deliver
and a few were just too proud of their product, i.e., pricing. When a
good Stratus only costs $7000.00 and a few of its competition were
asking three fourths of the
price of an aircraft engine, the higher priced ones fell out of favor.
There are still two good Subaru packages out there and they are Stratus
and Ram Performance.
There were issues that none of the providers seemed interested in
addressing. One was cooling and the other was fuel mixture. Both of
these are poorly understood
by the average 601 builder. Marketing always seemed to be best provided
by the guys that oversold product or tried to do too much with what they
had.
When the Subaru is modified too much to accomplish it's task, it becomes
a one of a kind engine that can only be serviced or repaired by the
seller's. This has
happened to the Eggenfeller and several others that have introduced such
complex components and modifications that few standard parts remain and
the economy
is lost. Those of us that fly the Subaru EA-81 enjoy great economy,
simple repairs and a sweet efficiency of using auto fuel or 100LL. The
sound is unique and
smooth and the starts are immediate, even in cold weather. Most of the
EA-81s will easily go to 2000 hours at the usual 4600 rpm and still show
no wear on the
cylinders. Yes, the Stratus and the Ram Performance engines need better
marketing for the engines.
On the down side, the Stratus EA-81 is a few pounds heavier for its 105
hp and the buyer does need to know a bit more about ignition systems,
cooling and fuel
mixtures to succeed, but it remains a great little engine that's really
simple to work on and fly. Would I do it again if there were do-overs?
Absolutely, in a heartbeat.
I get calls quite frequently about the Subaru and believe their use is
mostly understated. Most of them have gone on gyro copters because of
their brute power and
bullet proof performance while reliably keeping a less efficient machine
aloft. At least I don't have to get AD's every week with some nit picky
detail that just has to be
done to keep the engine from turning into a hand grenade.
Fly safe guys,
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
With all the madness about Corvair engines these days it seems the
Subaru engine has left the field. Is this just a passing fad, or did the
Subie have some less than desirable quality that the Corvair engine
lacks? Perhaps it's down to a talented promoter.
Is nobody selecting the Subaru any longer?
Message 46
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To BRS or not is a personal decision.
As mentioned giving up 40 lbs especially if the 40 lbs is in the back of the plane
is a problem for me.
There is also the theory that the money spent of the chute and the repacking of
the chute would be better spent on additional training.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241830#241830
Message 47
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The 601HD(S) plans call for bushings in the aileron bell crank installation
and on the rudder bearings (at least, these are the ones I can remember).
Very similar (if not exactly the same) to this XL drawing
http://www.zenithair.com/zodiac/xl/data/sample-6w10.pdf
Question for scratch builders: what did you use as a bushing? I looked at
tubes in the AS&S catalog, but did not find a (exact) match...
I'd appreciate your input
Thanks
Carlos
CH601-HD, plans
Message 48
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Aviation Consumer also argued for spending a given dollar on more training
over (say) a traffic warning device. But if you read through the kind of
incidents where a BRS was deployed I think you will see that training
wouldn't help in many cases (control failure, spin, hitting a glider tow
rope, engine out over hostile terrain). If I were buying a plane I'd
strongly consider one designed around a BRS (e.g. CTSW or CTLS). But (IMHO)
putting one in a 601LX really limits the utility of the plane due to W&B
issues.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:00 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: BSR Chute
To BRS or not is a personal decision.
As mentioned giving up 40 lbs especially if the 40 lbs is in the back of the
plane is a problem for me.
There is also the theory that the money spent of the chute and the repacking
of the chute would be better spent on additional training.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241830#241830
Message 49
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Common you guys! You are killing me with all this BAD INFORMATION! You guys throw
numbers around like you are experts and you don't have a clue! I don't intend
to offend anyone personally but some of you guys need a reality check.
Here's a picture of my BRS pack on a scale:
http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_28_06_BRS_Weight.JPG
18.8 lbs. Clearly not 40 lbs in the back of the airplane! The gold thing is less
than a pound and all of the other parts barely weigh 9 lbs. much of it in
the front of the airplane.
This picture has been on my website since October of 2006 as you can see from the
file name. Seriously guys - this list has come to a bunch of guys throwing
around numbers and opinions based on NOTHING but speculation and blah blah blah.
Get out there and work on your airplane or go fly it, then come back and
report something or ask a valid question. All this bad info on this list needs
to stop. Some of you guys seem to have to reply to every post even if you have
NO IDEA what you are talking about! Can we use a little restraint here until
we have something factual or useful to post?
Sorry for the rant, but I don't see any more posts from the guys that know because
they have been chased away by a bunch of Yahoos with nothing better to do
but spread bad info. Most of those guys are too nice to say anything and just
fade away for good reason. I just see the wrong kind of speculation and just
plane bad information here anymore.
Have a good evening,
Scott Laughlin
601XL/Corvair
Omaha
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241842#241842
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Scott:
I had never really considered a chute until I saw your picture showing
it weighed 18.8 pounds. BRS's July 2008 price list shows a 1350
having BRS system weights from 29 to 34 pounds. Do you have the
softpact?
Stan
701/3300
On Apr 28, 2009, at 22:05 , cookwithgas wrote:
> >
>
> Common you guys! You are killing me with all this BAD INFORMATION!
> You guys throw numbers around like you are experts and you don't
> have a clue! I don't intend to offend anyone personally but some of
> you guys need a reality check. Here's a picture of my BRS pack on a
> scale:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_28_06_BRS_Weight.JPG
>
> 18.8 lbs. Clearly not 40 lbs in the back of the airplane! The gold
> thing is less than a pound and all of the other parts barely weigh 9
> lbs. much of it in the front of the airplane.
>
> This picture has been on my website since October of 2006 as you can
> see from the file name. Seriously guys - this list has come to a
> bunch of guys throwing around numbers and opinions based on NOTHING
> but speculation and blah blah blah. Get out there and work on your
> airplane or go fly it, then come back and report something or ask a
> valid question. All this bad info on this list needs to stop. Some
> of you guys seem to have to reply to every post even if you have NO
> IDEA what you are talking about! Can we use a little restraint here
> until we have something factual or useful to post?
>
> Sorry for the rant, but I don't see any more posts from the guys
> that know because they have been chased away by a bunch of Yahoos
> with nothing better to do but spread bad info. Most of those guys
> are too nice to say anything and just fade away for good reason. I
> just see the wrong kind of speculation and just plane bad
> information here anymore.
>
> Have a good evening,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> 601XL/Corvair
> Omaha
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241842#241842
>
>
Message 51
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Ask Steve Weston about the W&B numbers for his Jabiru 3300-powered XL with a
BRS. Those are real numbers (I helped calculate them). One difference
between Steve and Scott's plane is that Scott's has a Corvair hung on the
front which helps counteract the weight of the BRS. Steve added a bracket to
move his battery farther forward from the firewall. I don't know if Steve is
still on this list but he is on the Zenith builders site.
-- Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stanley
Challgren
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: BSR Chute
Scott:
I had never really considered a chute until I saw your picture showing
it weighed 18.8 pounds. BRS's July 2008 price list shows a 1350
having BRS system weights from 29 to 34 pounds. Do you have the
softpact?
Stan
701/3300
On Apr 28, 2009, at 22:05 , cookwithgas wrote:
> >
>
> Common you guys! You are killing me with all this BAD INFORMATION!
> You guys throw numbers around like you are experts and you don't
> have a clue! I don't intend to offend anyone personally but some of
> you guys need a reality check. Here's a picture of my BRS pack on a
> scale:
>
> http://www.cooknwithgas.com/10_28_06_BRS_Weight.JPG
>
> 18.8 lbs. Clearly not 40 lbs in the back of the airplane! The gold
> thing is less than a pound and all of the other parts barely weigh 9
> lbs. much of it in the front of the airplane.
>
> This picture has been on my website since October of 2006 as you can
> see from the file name. Seriously guys - this list has come to a
> bunch of guys throwing around numbers and opinions based on NOTHING
> but speculation and blah blah blah. Get out there and work on your
> airplane or go fly it, then come back and report something or ask a
> valid question. All this bad info on this list needs to stop. Some
> of you guys seem to have to reply to every post even if you have NO
> IDEA what you are talking about! Can we use a little restraint here
> until we have something factual or useful to post?
>
> Sorry for the rant, but I don't see any more posts from the guys
> that know because they have been chased away by a bunch of Yahoos
> with nothing better to do but spread bad info. Most of those guys
> are too nice to say anything and just fade away for good reason. I
> just see the wrong kind of speculation and just plane bad
> information here anymore.
>
> Have a good evening,
>
> Scott Laughlin
> 601XL/Corvair
> Omaha
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241842#241842
>
>
Message 52
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W&B is indeed an issue with a Rotax or Jabiru engine - however, Pat's very nice
installation (which seems to be similar to European XLs) eliminates the problem.
I still put my Galaxy GRS-600 softpack in the rear baggage compartement (see: http://www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL/GRS/GRS.html), my space behind the instrument panel is just too limited. However I will use a variable pitch propeller that should balance the C.G. My baggage compartement will be space and weight limited to a space right behind the backrests (and I am happy to have installed the wing lockers, they provide the necessary baggage space and are relieving the stress on the wings at the same time :D).
The reason for a BRS in my XL is not because of the recent incidents, but for other
safety considerations (midair collision, engine failure in alpine rough country).
I know of the limited reliability of the BRS-systems (e.g. slow or insufficient
opening at low speeds), but it might be just another last-chance...
Martin
--------
Martin Pohl
Zodiac XL QBK
8645 Jona, Switzerland
http://www.pohltec.ch/ZodiacXL/Main.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241856#241856
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