Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:45 AM - Zenith Zip 2009 (ZodieRocket)
2. 07:18 AM - Re: question on CH601-HD (Bill Naumuk)
3. 08:45 AM - Re: FAA BLESSING (James)
4. 09:10 AM - Re: wing bolt torque. (Gary Gower)
5. 10:47 AM - Re: wing bolt torques (Bryan Martin)
6. 02:12 PM - Re: wing bolt torque. (n801bh@netzero.com)
7. 02:52 PM - Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK (Gig Giacona)
8. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK (Dave)
9. 06:24 PM - Re: Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK (Jay Maynard)
10. 06:52 PM - Re: Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK (Dave Austin)
11. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK (Jay Maynard)
Message 1
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Zenith <http://www.ch601.org/zenithnorth/index.htm> Zip Fly-in website
link
or look at the events pages of www.zenith.aero <http://www.zenith.aero/>
website
http://www.ch601.org/zenithnorth/index.htm
The RAA Toronto Chapter is pleased to host the Zenith Zip 2009 Fly-in at
the
Brampton airport, Ontario, on June 13 & 14 2009. This event will appeal
to
all Zenith aircraft owners/enthusiasts, as well as to everyone who
"would
rather be flying"!
Come and celebrate with us your passion for aviation!!
Some of the activities planned over the weekend:
* BBQ Saturday and Sunday
* STOL CH 750 Fuselage construction
* Technical discussions/workshops
* Rudder workshop by Can-Zac Aircraft
* Several exhibits by the sponsors
* Tire-kicking, war stories, making new friends
* Dinner and social evening Saturday night
* Under-the-wing camping
If you plan on staying overnight and attend the dinner and social, we
can
benefit from a group rebate at a local hotel. Please contact me and
indicate
your intention:
* Supper/social Saturday night
* Room for 1 night
* Room for 2 nights
Contact info:
Pierre Tanguay
<mailto:pierre12@magma.ca> pierre12@magma.ca
(613) 687-0037
Alain Ouellet aouellet@icecanada.com
(905) 458-5424
Happy Flights To All
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: question on CH601-HD |
Carlos-
Make sure 6L3-1 is slid in place before mounting the 6V11-5s. This
will automatically give you the .050 clearance.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Carlos Sa
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: question on CH601-HD
Should be easy to measure at the extremeties of the centre section -
Thanks, George
Carlos
2009/5/25 George Swinford <grs-pms@comcast.net>
Carlos:
My drawings show the forward end of 6-V11-5 to be 45mm ahead of the
front surface of the spar web. I can't remember how I measured that
distance with the lower skin in place.
George
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: FAA BLESSING |
Congratulations! I am nearby in Burke, VA and own a 2002 factory 601XL. H
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245399#245399
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: wing bolt torque. |
Hello Mike:
-
One important advice:--
-
IF you already tightened this bolts too much (with the ft/lb -Inch/lb missu
nderstood)
-
PLEASE do not use those bolts... Destroy them to avoid future use!
Use new ones, they could already be seriously harmed by over tightened...
--Even if you dont see any harm...- They can probably fail without no
tice any time.
-
Hope this helps...
-
Saludos
Gary Gower
701 912S- 235 hrs
601 XL- JAB 3300- building
Here is one engineer (Industrial Engineer) and A&P.- No charge for this a
dvice :-)- :-)
-
--- On Mon, 5/25/09, T. Graziano <tonyplane@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: T. Graziano <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing bolt torque
Ref AC43.13-1B "Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices AIRCRAFT INSP
ECTION, REPAIR & ALTERATIONS".,
PAGE 7-9
-
Table 7-1 "Recommended torque values (inch-pounds)"
-
FOR 5/16-24 BOLT
100-140 WITH TENSION TYPE NUTS
AND 60-80 WITH SHEAR TYPE NUTS.-
-
Again, see that the values are in inch-pounds.
-
-
Tony Graziano
XL/Jab 492 hrs
-
-
----- Original Message -----
From: michael lord
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: wing bolt torque
Hi Paul
Thanks for your response.- But I double checked
-the AN Bolt Torque chart and I still come up with
60 to 85 Ft. Lbs. for AN 5 Nuts in shear and 100 to 140
Ft. Lbs In tension. It doesn't make any sense to me
either. It seems way to tight.- Where are our engineers.
Regards
Mike Lord
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
=0A=0A=0A
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: wing bolt torques |
Sheer nuts are a special kind of nut. The nuts used to hold the wings
on should be standard tension nuts. use the table for tension. The
tables in AC43-13 list the proper torque in inch pounds not foot
pounds. 40 foot pounds = 480 inch pounds. The proper torque should be
100 to 140 inch pounds, If you have 40 foot pounds on them, it might
be a good idea to remove your bolts and nuts and throw them away and
replace them with new ones, I'm not sure what the yield strength is
for AN-5 bolts but if you have damaged them, you don't want to rely on
them.
On May 25, 2009, at 11:25 AM, michael lord wrote:
> What torque are you setting your AN 5 wing nuts at.
> The Torque tables on the net say 60 to 85 ft lbs for shear nuts
> and 100 to 140 ft lbs for tension nuts. I was putting the final
> torque
> on them yesterday and they are at 40 ft lbs now and seem very
> tight. Are we in shear or tension? I thought i would check rather
> than
> screw up at this stage of the game.
> Thanks
> Mike Lord
> 601 XL N526M
> Checking things out before final airwothiness check.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: wing bolt torque. |
I am pretty sure if he did torque them to the Ft lb number instead of th
e in lb correct one he would have had to glue/weld/patch both halves bac
k together to even try to retorque. <GG>
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Gary Gower <ggower_99@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing bolt torque.
Hello Mike: One important advice: IF you already tightened this bolts
too much (with the ft/lb -Inch/lb missunderstood) PLEASE do not use tho
se bolts... Destroy them to avoid future use!Use new ones, they could al
ready be seriously harmed by over tightened... Even if you dont see any
harm... They can probably fail without notice any time. Hope this help
s... SaludosGary Gower701 912S 235 hrs601 XL JAB 3300 buildingHere is
one engineer (Industrial Engineer) and A&P. No charge for this advice
:-) :-)
--- On Mon, 5/25/09, T. Graziano <tonyplane@bellsouth.net> wrote:
From: T. Graziano <tonyplane@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: wing bolt torque
Ref AC43.13-1B "Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices AIRCRAFT I
NSPECTION, REPAIR & ALTERATIONS"., PAGE 7-9 Table 7-1 "Recommended torq
ue values (inch-pounds)" FOR 5/16-24 BOLT 100-140 WITH TENSION TYPE NUT
SAND 60-80 WITH SHEAR TYPE NUTS. Again, see that the values are in inc
h-pounds. Tony GrazianoXL/Jab 492 hrs ----- Original Message ----- Fro
m: michael lord To: Zenith-List@matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 25, 2009
9:15 PMSubject: Zenith-List: wing bolt torque
Hi PaulThanks for your response. But I double checked the AN Bolt Torq
ue chart and I still come up with 60 to 85 Ft. Lbs. for AN 5 Nuts in she
ar and 100 to 140Ft. Lbs In tension. It doesn't make any sense to me eit
her. It seems way to tight. Where are our engineers.RegardsMike Lordhre
f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="ht
tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/carget=_
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List=no
follow>http://forums.matronics.comblank rel=nofollow>http://www.matron
ics.com/contribution
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK |
>
> Time: 07:48:22 PM PST US
> From: Jay Maynard
> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK
>
>
> Okkay, fine. How do YOU explain the inflight breakups? Bear in mind that builder
and pilot error cannot explain every 601XL inflight breakup.
>
Actually if you add maintenance to builder and pilot error, yes you can.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245454#245454
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK |
That would require quite a leap. The cause is unknown, unknown to you as
well as everyone else.
A more proper response to the question would have been "I don't."
These incidents have occurred, they seem to have stopped for a short while
now, with any luck they won't re-occur. I'm not sure that lack of
maintenance explains it either, some seem to be as fixated on cable tension
as others were on flutter. The results I saw posted from the tests seemed to
indicate that cable tensions were not quite as critical as supposed. So far
nothing has been identified as an issue causing the problems. Each item
stroked off the list should be regarded as a positive, not a reason to start
pissing on each other again. Flight safety should be a primary concern to
all of us, not winning bull***t arguments on mailgroups.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 6:51 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK
>
>
>>
>> Time: 07:48:22 PM PST US
>> From: Jay Maynard
>> Subject: Re: Zenith601-List: Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK
>>
>>
>> Okkay, fine. How do YOU explain the inflight breakups? Bear in mind that
>> builder and pilot error cannot explain every 601XL inflight breakup.
>>
>
>
> Actually if you add maintenance to builder and pilot error, yes you can.
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=245454#245454
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK |
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 10:06:07PM -0300, Dave wrote:
> Flight safety should be a primary concern to all of us, not winning
> bull***t arguments on mailgroups.
I will happily "lose" this argument if it means that we *know* - not merely
think we know - what causes Zodiac inflight breakups and how to prevent
them.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK |
Is it reasonable to expect that we will "know" absolutely for sure? not
many things in life are that clear.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK |
On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 09:50:54PM -0400, Dave Austin wrote:
> Is it reasonable to expect that we will "know" absolutely for sure? not
> many things in life are that clear.
If we find a smoking gun somewhere, we'll have a reasonable amount of
certainty. If not, then we'll have to muddle along - and put up with the
effects of a bad reputation for the airplane. Which would you rather have?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
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