Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:50 AM - CH601HDS Wing Fuel Tanks (John Livsey)
2. 07:06 AM - Re: CH601HDS Wing Fuel Tanks (Gig Giacona)
3. 07:08 AM - Re: CH601HDS Wing Fuel Tanks (Gig Giacona)
4. 09:00 AM - Re: Zenith- Flying the 601XL (japhillipsga@aol.com)
5. 12:19 PM - Re: Re: Zenith- Flying the 601XL (jeyoung65@aol.com)
6. 02:23 PM - Re: Zenith- Flying the 601XL (Gig Giacona)
7. 02:29 PM - Re: Zenith- Flying the 601XL (cookwithgas)
8. 06:43 PM - Putting Flutter Issue to Bed (Juan Vega)
9. 07:22 PM - Re: Putting Flutter Issue to Bed (Jay Maynard)
10. 07:36 PM - Re: Putting Flutter Issue to Bed (Paul Mulwitz)
11. 11:05 PM - Official Zenith-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
12. 11:10 PM - Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | CH601HDS Wing Fuel Tanks |
Hi list,
I found this picture of a wing tank for a HDS a few years back but I
don't have any idea about the builder.
Would anyone recognise this picture ? If so could they email me off line
at jlivsey(at)bigpond.com
Picture of tank
http://camilla.homelinux.net/zodiac/photoalbums/modifications/wing%20tanks/newtank.jpg
--
Thanks, John Livsey
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: CH601HDS Wing Fuel Tanks |
jlivsey(at)bigpond.com wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> I found this picture of a wing tank for a HDS a few years back but I
> don't have any idea about the builder.
>
> Would anyone recognise this picture ? If so could they email me off line
> at jlivsey(at)bigpond.com
>
> Picture of tank
> http://camilla.homelinux.net/zodiac/photoalbums/modifications/wing%20tanks/newtank.jpg
>
> --
> Thanks, John Livsey
I have no idea whose it is but it looks like a very good job of putting a tank
in the wing locker.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246293#246293
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: CH601HDS Wing Fuel Tanks |
Maybe I do know who's it is.
Try the first part of the link.
http://camilla.homelinux.net/
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246294#246294
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- Flying the 601XL |
Hello Fellow Pilots and Builders, thought I'd mention?a great day at the airport
and how sometimes really good things can come from dumb decisions. Friday evening
after work I spent 3-4 hours in the shop working on my RV-8a I'm building.?
Didn't even stop for supper, when I went in about 10:30 my sweet Joy had popped
some corn and the bag was mostly full so I reheated the bag, poured it out
and covered it with Tabasco and more salt as I'm want to do. Tasted great !
and then I went off to bed. Saturday morning?I got up before sunrise to get to
the airport to go flying. I really enjoy watching the sunrise from 5000 feet.?Only
thing was my guts were in a roar and I felt bad. I got 'Baby Doll' out
and warmed her up, but I just did not feel like flying. I pondered a while and
then just put her back up and drove home. I felt shame for not flying when I
had the opportunity. When I got back home Joy had?went and retrieved my two youngest
grand daughters, Ansley, 6, and Bethany, 7, Lo
ud, laughing, Blond, Big Haired little girls. I tried to doze laying on the porch
swing as they played in, around?and outside. Finally about 5:00 Joy asked
"what are we having for supper?" and I yelled Picnic!! The little girls got all
excited. Joy made the sandwiches, bagged up pickles, chips, cookies and grapes
and I brought in the cooler and ice for the drinks. Loaded up the blankets
and bicycles and off to the airport we went. Just as we arrived a plane full of
skydivers popped their chutes and the girl saw from the car and?screamed with
excitement. Neither had ever been to the airport or seen an airplane up close.
We spread out the blankets in the shade of the hanger as load after load of
"Silk Hippies" jumped and landed in the grass right in front of us. I pulled
the XL out and taxied around a bit so the girls could see her. Joy wanted them
to get in and take some pictures, but Ansley, the younger, would not get in,
but Beth did. ?I parked the plane and we ate and enjo
y
ed the afternoon. Around 7:00 the King Air needed refueling so ther
e was a break in the jumping. I told the kids to watch for me, I took off and flew
around the field, let her out a bit?and made 3 touch and go's. Man those Phillips
push rod controlled ailerons are a pleasure to fly with! I flew about
an hour and taxied back over to the hanger. I popped the canopy and yelled if
anybody wanted to go taxi around a bit before I put the plane up. Beth yelled
and came running. She climbed in and I buckled her in and set the head phone on
her pretty bond head. Fired up the Doll and taxied off,?with Joy running along
the side taking photos. As we neared the end of the taxi way I asked Beth if
she was scared and she said no, I said flying is about the same as taxing and
did she want to fly and she said yes. I turned straight onto?the runway, announced
as I accelerated and off we went before she could change her mind. In a
couple seconds we were climbing and I thought her head was going to unscrew as
she was looking around trying to see everything at
the same time. I slowed way down at 2000 feet and let her look. I banked hard
over so she could look around and straight down. Her little eyes were clicking
trying to see everything. I let her hold the stick as I maneuvered side to side,
down and up and let her take control for a few moments once I trimmed the
plane. She just giggled and laughed, talking a mile a minute!. Just before we
touched down I announced that this was her maiden flight and landing and?a half
dozen folks came back with congrads and cheers. I was proud of her and the plane.
Course, little?Ansley was jealous as sin and didn't want to hear how much
fun it was. The drive home was full of Beth's stories about flying with Popaw.
?So you guys out there that an'it never got the chance to be a "hero" get to
work building those planes and you few still whining, moaning and groaning about
"flutter" fix you planes and get on with it. I had my Saturday to remember
for a long time and every penny I ever spent on fly
i
ng, airplanes, gas, insurance, taxes and hangers was well worth it
and a bargain. If I had not ate that poison popcorn Friday night I would have flown
Saturday morning and would not have gone back for the picnic Saturday evening
and the Great Blessings I received. Best regards, Bill of Georgia
N505WP, 601 XL-3300 Jab 145 hrs
do not archive
?
?-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Moody II <dredmoody@cox.net>
Sent: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:44 pm
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Flutter Testing shows 601/650 OK
I nearly killed a bird today. We have a family of Mottled Ducks (black mallards)
that like to sit on our runway. So far only?a few tense moments and no bird
strikes. I wouldn't mind if these ducks would get a bit more extinct.
?
Ed
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- Flying the 601XL |
Just one question Bill, flying or having the grand kids with you while flying?
Makes life worthwhile doesn't it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? Jerry of GA??
-----Original Message-----
From: japhillipsga@aol.com
Sent: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 11:54 am
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zenith- Flying the 601XL
Hello Fellow Pilots and Builders, thought I'd mention?a great day at the airport
and how sometimes really good things can come from dumb decisions. Friday evening
after work I spent 3-4 hours in the shop working on my RV-8a I'm building.?
Ed
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- Flying the 601XL |
Bill, you lucky Georgia SOB.
:D :D :D :D
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246368#246368
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Zenith- Flying the 601XL |
Bill:
That was a great story. Thanks for sharing. I've got a big weekend planned flying
my 601XL in North Texas. No poison popcorn for me!
Scott in Texas
601XL/Corvair
130 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246370#246370
Message 8
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| Subject: | Putting Flutter Issue to Bed |
See Below. Lets Quit the BS, as the test result show the Flutter is the wrong tree
to bark up. Lets look a the quality of the builds, even the AMD one or the
lack Pilot control.
This reprot makes it clear Flutter aint happening! Now someone needs to take this
to the press to make sure the bad press we recieved gets its proper rebuttal.
Juan Vega
ARTICLE from Zenith Europe-
The recent meetings between Zenair and German authorities (the DAeC and their DAR
engineers as well as the BFU) were very productive with key steps taken towards
re-establishing the good standing of the CH 601 XL aircraft throughout Europe.
A very comprehensive presentation by the head of the GVT program that tested
the aircraft made it very clear that the oft suggested flutter is an exceedingly
unlikely smoking gun to explain past accidents. The engineer in charge
instead applauded Chris Heintz for the overall scores obtained by the Zodiac
throughout the tests, as they were among the best ever seen in his lab. The results
of the very thorough linear flutter analysis left no doubts in anyones mind:
No tendency to flutter or divergence was found within the flight envelope
of the CH 601 XL. This included tests from minimum to maximum take-off weight;
with fixed as well as free controls; with control cable tensions varying from
well below 10 lbs. to over 40 lbs, and with standard as well as overweight control
surfaces (i.e. possibly due to excessive paint in the real world); all
from sea level to over 15,000 feet and to speeds well above 400 km/h.
In order to ensure accurate results, all tests were carried out on two different
Zodiac aircraft. The significance of the flap stops called-for as part of the
regular design was confirmed. The aircraft which did not at first have these
installed showed less satisfactory results than Zenairs own standard demo plane
(with stops) which was one of the tested planes. Zenair will be issuing a Service
Letter very shortly calling for owners/pilots to check their flap stops
(and to install them prior to further flight operations if these have not been
previously fitted). By the end of the tests, both aircraft (a classic CH 601
XL and the newer CH 650 E) presented the same consistent results: No tendency
to flutter.
Also during this GVT testing process, it was noticed that the German-registered
CH 601 XL on which the tests were conducted did not have part of the aileron-stop
structure which was an integral part of the CH 601 XL at the time of German
certification. Zenair has been asked by the DAeC to issue a Service Letter
addressing this potential discrepancy for German-registered CH 601 XL; the DAeC
will be issuing its own AD shortly to ensure the aircrafts ongoing compliance
with LTF-UL certification.
Many questions were answered by the flutter expert after his presentation to German
authorities; his answers and ample GVT data successfully satisfied those
present that flutter was a non-issue for the Zenair Zodiac design. The complete
ground vibration tests (GVT) just completed were conducted to natural frequencies
well over 70 Hz. This clearly demonstrates that the standard Zodiac design
is flutter-free within (and well beyond) the entire range of its flight envelope
said Chris Heintz, who also attended the meetings.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Putting Flutter Issue to Bed |
On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 09:40:39PM -0400, Juan Vega wrote:
> See Below. Lets Quit the BS, as the test result show the Flutter is the
> wrong tree to bark up. Lets look a the quality of the builds, even the AMD
> one or the lack Pilot control.
Just because flutter isn't the issue (I agree with that) doesn't mean that
there's not some other problem with the aircraft itself. We just don't know.
Of course, you're invulnerable, so you'll never have a problem.
Come on, Juan, pull your head out of the sand.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Putting Flutter Issue to Bed |
Indeed, the NTSB identified another problem - one which I think might
explain all the accidents. It is the stick gradient problem that
makes it easier to pull additional G's as you pull additional G's.
The NTSB demanded both this be fixed and aileron mass balancing be
added. I hope the Zenair folks are going to release design changes
to resolve those issues. It really doesn't matter whether the
changes are justified by German engineers or not. The changes are
still needed to satisfy the NTSB demands.
Paul
XL grounded
do not archive
At 07:21 PM 6/1/2009, you wrote:
>Just because flutter isn't the issue (I agree with that) doesn't mean that
>there's not some other problem with the aircraft itself. We just don't know.
Message 11
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in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Zenith-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Zenith-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Zenith-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Zenith
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Official Zenith-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Zenith-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Zenith-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Zenith-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Zenith-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Zenith-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Zenith-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Zenith-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Zenith-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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