---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/06/09: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:51 AM - Re: Jabiru starter SOLENOID) (Juan Vega) 2. 06:54 AM - Gascolator Wierdness ?? (Jeff) 3. 09:15 AM - Re: Gascolator Wierdness ?? (Clive Richards) 4. 10:15 AM - wing bolts (roger lambert) 5. 01:37 PM - Re: Gascolator Wierdness ?? (Juan Vega) 6. 07:41 PM - Zenith Zip 2009 (Alain Ouellet) 7. 11:41 PM - Re: Jabiru starter SOLENOID) (Craig Payne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:27 AM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru starter SOLENOID) Craig and Gang How does one know when the solenoid is going bad and it is time to replace it? Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Craig Payne >Sent: Jun 4, 2009 7:54 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru starter > >The Jabiru starter whats-it is a separate relay. It is supposed to be in the crate with the engine (at least mine was). This document contains a picture: > > > > http://www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/StarterSolenoidRegulator.PDF > > > >What is the name of the diagram in appendix Z that you are looking at? You cant go by the diagram number as those change from edition to addition. > > > >Im looking at figure Z-20 in revision 12: Small Jabiru System. The part labeled Starter contactor is the external relay that is only good for intermittent use. The small circle labeled SOL. on top of the larger starter circle is the electromagnet that mechanically engages the gears. It is integral to the starter > > > >In some automotive starter motors the electromagnet on the starter performs both functions: moving contacts to switch the heavy cranking current and mechanically moving the fork to engage the gears. There will have two terminals: a big stud for the heavy lead from the battery and a smaller stud for the lead from the ignition key. The Jabiru starter is not like this, it has a single heavy lead. So you need an external relay. You can call it a contactor or a solenoid but it is still external. Here is a doc with a picture of the Jabiru starter: > > > > http://www.jabiru.net.au/Service%20Bulletins/Engine%20files/Starter%20Motor%20earth%20Cable_JSL005-1.pdf > > > >I dont know what the starter on your Corvair looks like but Williams current documentation shows a heavy stud and a flat push=on connector. So the electrical switching of the heavy lead is integral to the starter and no external relay is needed. See here: > > > > http://www.flycorvair.com/starterkit.html > > > >Hope this helps. > > > >-- Craig > > > >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist@cs.com >Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 5:28 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru starter > > > > > > > >Craig, > >On the wiring schematic, I only see a starter solenoid and no starter contactor. Is the starter solenoid on the starter or is it a totally separate piece of equipment. ? > >The sample diagrams I am looking at are in the Aeroelectric Connection manual. > >Jay > >-----Original Message----- >From: Craig Payne >To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > >The Jabiru engine installation manual doesnt require this. In fact their sample wiring diagram doesnt even show a master contactor that I can see. See page 15 of this manual: > > > > http://www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300%20Install.pdf > > > >The diagrams you are looking at may be showing the large electromagnet on the starter that moves the fork to engage the small drive gear with the ring gear. That is a solenoid too. > > > >Do you have a link to what you are looking at? > > > >-- Craig > > > > > > _____ > >Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com > > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:45 AM PST US From: "Jeff " Subject: Zenith-List: Gascolator Wierdness ?? Hi John, I have a similar problem, but the fuel was turning greenish. At first I thought the FBO might have simply pumped the wrong avgas, but the airport only handles 100LL and Jet A. It ain't Jet A. The plane hasn't been off the airport yet so I didn't get the wrong gas anywhere else. Beautiful blue comes out of both wing tanks, but it is green coming out of the gascolator. I have check valves, facet pumps, aluminum fuel lines, 30R7 rubber fuel lines, the Andair selector, and a Dynon fuel flow sensor in between the tanks and the gascolator. Both sides are the same with LE tanks in each wing. Something in there is turning the avgas color from blue to green. I'm still taxi testing and haven't resolved this either. The gascolator is an ACS part. I'll pull my gascolator apart and take a look. It seems to take some time to turn the fuel color. If I sump the gascolator right after running the engine, the fuel is blue. Jeff Davidson CH 601-HD w/3300A Hi All, I'm using the gascolator that came with my quickbuild on my 601XL. It looks like an Aircraft Spruce part. The last two times I've sumped fuel from the gascolator the 100LL has been yellow in color, looks like a urine sample almost. The tanks sump fine ie 100LL blue and once I clear out the yellow fluid the engine runs fine. I've only run 100LL and no mogas. In talking with my A&P/Tech Counselor we've come to the conclusion that the color must be coming from the gascolator finish. I've removed the bowl and it does appear the finish (alodine) is dissolving ? Has anyone else seen this ? My A&P hasnt ever seen this before and he's a pretty experienced guy. Thanks, John Davis N601JD @ 7A8 601XL - Jab 3300 Burnsville, NC ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:15:56 AM PST US From: "Clive Richards" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gascolator Wierdness ?? Ditto Seem to recall we had a few samples of AVGAS turning to green unexplained during initial testing. Clive G CBDG 300 Hrs Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 2:53 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Gascolator Wierdness ?? Hi John, I have a similar problem, but the fuel was turning greenish. At first I thought the FBO might have simply pumped the wrong avgas, but the airport only handles 100LL and Jet A. It ain't Jet A. The plane hasn't been off the airport yet so I didn't get the wrong gas anywhere else. Beautiful blue comes out of both wing tanks, but it is green coming out of the gascolator. I have check valves, facet pumps, aluminum fuel lines, 30R7 rubber fuel lines, the Andair selector, and a Dynon fuel flow sensor in between the tanks and the gascolator. Both sides are the same with LE tanks in each wing. Something in there is turning the avgas color from blue to green. I'm still taxi testing and haven't resolved this either. The gascolator is an ACS part. I'll pull my gascolator apart and take a look. It seems to take some time to turn the fuel color. If I sump the gascolator right after running the engine, the fuel is blue. Jeff Davidson CH 601-HD w/3300A Hi All, I'm using the gascolator that came with my quickbuild on my 601XL. It looks like an Aircraft Spruce part. The last two times I've sumped fuel from the gascolator the 100LL has been yellow in color, looks like a urine sample almost. The tanks sump fine ie 100LL blue and once I clear out the yellow fluid the engine runs fine. I've only run 100LL and no mogas. In talking with my A&P/Tech Counselor we've come to the conclusion that the color must be coming from the gascolator finish. I've removed the bowl and it does appear the finish (alodine) is dissolving ? Has anyone else seen this ? My A&P hasnt ever seen this before and he's a pretty experienced guy. Thanks, John Davis N601JD @ 7A8 601XL - Jab 3300 Burnsville, NC ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:35 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: wing bolts From: roger lambert Torques specifications and methods are contained in Construction Standards for Zenair Light Airplanes, 2007 edition as well as AC 43.13-1B. If the holes are drilled correctly, these are close tolerance bolts and should be handled accordingly. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:37:30 PM PST US From: Juan Vega Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Gascolator Wierdness ?? it nay not be the gascolator. If your lines are black Goodyear lines, there may be some ware of the fuel lines and it collects in the gascolator. -----Original Message----- >From: Jeff >Sent: Jun 6, 2009 9:53 AM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Gascolator Wierdness ?? > >Hi John, > > I have a similar problem, but the fuel was turning greenish. At first >I thought the FBO might have simply pumped the wrong avgas, but the airport >only handles 100LL and Jet A. It ain't Jet A. The plane hasn't been off >the airport yet so I didn't get the wrong gas anywhere else. Beautiful blue >comes out of both wing tanks, but it is green coming out of the gascolator. >I have check valves, facet pumps, aluminum fuel lines, 30R7 rubber fuel >lines, the Andair selector, and a Dynon fuel flow sensor in between the >tanks and the gascolator. Both sides are the same with LE tanks in each >wing. Something in there is turning the avgas color from blue to green. >I'm still taxi testing and haven't resolved this either. The gascolator is >an ACS part. I'll pull my gascolator apart and take a look. It seems to >take some time to turn the fuel color. If I sump the gascolator right after >running the engine, the fuel is blue. > > Jeff Davidson > > CH 601-HD w/3300A > > > >Hi All, > > > >I'm using the gascolator that came with my quickbuild on my 601XL. It looks >like an Aircraft Spruce part. > > > >The last two times I've sumped fuel from the gascolator the 100LL has been >yellow in color, looks like a urine sample almost. The tanks sump fine ie >100LL blue and once I clear out the yellow fluid the engine runs fine. I've >only run 100LL and no mogas. > > > >In talking with my A&P/Tech Counselor we've come to the conclusion that the >color must be coming from the gascolator finish. I've removed the bowl and >it does appear the finish (alodine) is dissolving ? > > > >Has anyone else seen this ? My A&P hasnt ever seen this before and he's a >pretty experienced guy. > > > >Thanks, > >John Davis > >N601JD @ 7A8 > >601XL - Jab 3300 > >Burnsville, NC > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:55 PM PST US From: "Alain Ouellet" Subject: Zenith-List: Zenith Zip 2009 Its coming up next week-end in Brampton, Ontario. Lots of other pilots, builders, etc.... Good time to meet other aviation enthusiasts. Saturday and Sunday Alain ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:41:24 PM PST US From: "Craig Payne" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru starter SOLENOID) It should last as long as the one in your car - forever. If it fails it fails all at once with the contacts welded together. -- Craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Juan Vega Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:48 AM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru starter SOLENOID) Craig and Gang How does one know when the solenoid is going bad and it is time to replace it? Juan -----Original Message----- >From: Craig Payne >Sent: Jun 4, 2009 7:54 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Jabiru starter > >The Jabiru starter whats-it is a separate relay. It is supposed to be in the crate with the engine (at least mine was). This document contains a picture: > > > > http://www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/StarterSolenoidRegulator.PDF > > > >What is the name of the diagram in appendix Z that you are looking at? You cant go by the diagram number as those change from edition to addition. > > > >Im looking at figure Z-20 in revision 12: Small Jabiru System. The part labeled Starter contactor is the external relay that is only good for intermittent use. The small circle labeled SOL. on top of the larger starter circle is the electromagnet that mechanically engages the gears. It is integral to the starter > > > >In some automotive starter motors the electromagnet on the starter performs both functions: moving contacts to switch the heavy cranking current and mechanically moving the fork to engage the gears. There will have two terminals: a big stud for the heavy lead from the battery and a smaller stud for the lead from the ignition key. The Jabiru starter is not like this, it has a single heavy lead. So you need an external relay. You can call it a contactor or a solenoid but it is still external. Here is a doc with a picture of the Jabiru starter: > > > > http://www.jabiru.net.au/Service%20Bulletins/Engine%20files/Starter%20Motor%20earth%20Cable_JSL005-1.pdf > > > >I dont know what the starter on your Corvair looks like but Williams current documentation shows a heavy stud and a flat push=on connector. So the electrical switching of the heavy lead is integral to the starter and no external relay is needed. See here: > > > > http://www.flycorvair.com/starterkit.html > > > >Hope this helps. > > > >-- Craig > > > >From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jaybannist@cs.com >Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 5:28 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Jabiru starter > > > > > > > >Craig, > >On the wiring schematic, I only see a starter solenoid and no starter contactor. Is the starter solenoid on the starter or is it a totally separate piece of equipment. ? > >The sample diagrams I am looking at are in the Aeroelectric Connection manual. > >Jay > >-----Original Message----- >From: Craig Payne >To: zenith-list@matronics.com > > >The Jabiru engine installation manual doesnt require this. In fact their sample wiring diagram doesnt even show a master contactor that I can see. See page 15 of this manual: > > > > http://www.usjabiru.com/images/pdf/manuals/new%20stuff/3300%20Install.pdf > > > >The diagrams you are looking at may be showing the large electromagnet on the starter that moves the fork to engage the small drive gear with the ring gear. That is a solenoid too. > > > >Do you have a link to what you are looking at? > > > >-- Craig > > > > > > _____ > >Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com > > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.