Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:10 AM - Re: DFW Builders get together (burbby)
2. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: Rivnuts (Jim Belcher)
3. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: Rivnuts (Juan Vega)
4. 01:23 PM - Polk City crash (roger lambert)
5. 02:49 PM - Left wing low syndrome (Bill Naumuk)
6. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: Rivnuts (Phil Maxson)
7. 03:50 PM - Re: Left wing low syndrome (Leo Gates)
8. 04:21 PM - Re: Polk City crash (Gary Ray)
9. 05:42 PM - Re: Polk City crash (Dave Austin)
10. 05:50 PM - Some New Stuff (George Race)
11. 05:51 PM - Heavy wing stuff (jaybannist@cs.com)
12. 06:12 PM - Re: Heavy wing stuff (purplemoon99@bellsouth.net)
13. 06:17 PM - Re: Heavy wing stuff (Paul Mulwitz)
14. 08:56 PM - Re: Heavy wing stuff (Leo Gates)
15. 09:51 PM - Re: DFW Builders get together (Ron Ellis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: DFW Builders get together |
JAY
I am very interested and cannot wait to meet you and other builders in the area.
What can I do to help? Please keep me posted on date and times if they change...
Please email me direct to burbby@yahoo.com.
Thanks
Gary Bassham
Ch601XL (N7601)resereved
Millsap, TX
--- On Mon, 6/22/09, jaybannist@cs.com <jaybannist@cs.com> wrote:
> From: jaybannist@cs.com <jaybannist@cs.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: DFW Builders get together
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith601-list@matronics.com, corvaircraft@mylist.net
> Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 7:42 PM
> Attention Zenith builders and flyers in the DFW
> (Texas) area.
>
>
>
> If there is enough interest, we plan to have a breakfast
> meeting on July 18 at
>
> Hicks Airfield (T67), fly in or drive in. There are a
> whole bunch of us in
>
> various stages of building 601s, 650s, 701s, 750s and 801s
> in this area and it
>
> would be great for all of us to meet one another and talk
> about our passions
>
> (and our perils).
>
>
>
> If interested, please let me know, on line or off.
>
>
>
> Thanks - Jay Bannister 601XL "Lil Bruiser"
>
>
>
>
>
> Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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On Wednesday 24 June 2009 16:34, Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> I was going to use Rivnuts and got some to play with and see how they
> worked. I have nut plates and no rivnuts in my plane.
>
I'd second this. It is possible to get rivnuts to work, but it takes a lot of
practice, and a lot of rivnuts get wasted in the process. By the time one
learns how to set a rivnut, enough rivnuts have been used that the nut plates
would look cheap in comparison, not to mention the time involved.
I don't know how many times I've had to drill out a rivnut, and do the job
again. Sometimes, on certificated aircraft, there is no choice, because the
manufacturer used rivnuts. It's also the only way I've found to set a
fastener when the back area isn't accessable, unless one is going to use
pulled rivets.
I really feel most of us (including me) are better off with nut plates.
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 3
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DO NOT PUT LOCKTIGHT ON THEM! IF THEY GET STUCK THE RIVNUT WILL UNKATCH AND YOU
HAVE TO DRILL THE ENTIRE THING OUT,or hold it with plyers from the back.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Sent: Jun 24, 2009 9:08 PM
>To: "zenith-list@matronics.com " <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivnuts
>
>
>>> I even used located on them. <<
>
>Whoops! I meant LOCKTITE on them. Dang blackberry spill chicker.
>
>Phil Maxson
>601XL/Corvair
>
>
Message 4
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The NTSB has updated the report. For those who haven't read it, an
interesting paragraph speaks volumes.
"During a telephone interview, the previous owner of the airplane stated
that
when flying the airplane with a single occupant in the left seat, it was
normal
to trim the aileron fully in a right wing down direction in order to
maintain
lateral balance"
Those of us who have actually flown the airplane know that this is
indicative of
some serious misconfiguration in the construction of the airframe. The
aileron
trim is extremely sensitive and never requires more than minimal change off
level to maintain trim. It is hard to imagine even attempring to fly the
airplane with that much trim dialed in.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Left wing low syndrome |
All-
The recently posted concern about use of full aileron trim resulting
in a crash is to my mind invalid as a factor unique to the event. Every
601 builder I've talked to (Incuding some with projects that deserve
Lindy consideration) report the same condition. No difference between
XL, HDS, and HD models. The archives have enough reports of the syndrome
to choke a horse. Flying builder recommendations I received were all the
same- put as much weight in the right side of the plane as possible to
counter the effect.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 6
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How about if I just remove them all from my plane? Problem solved.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Left wing low syndrome |
All-
From day one my HDS had the same tendency. Solo, left wing heavy.
Dual, level. I did not worry about it, just trimmed with the electric
trim. I thought that was what it was for.
Leo Gates
Bill Naumuk wrote:
> All-
> The recently posted concern about use of full aileron trim
> resulting in a crash is to my mind invalid as a factor unique to the
> event. Every 601 builder I've talked to (Incuding some with projects
> that deserve Lindy consideration) report the same condition. No
> difference between XL, HDS, and HD models. The archives have enough
> reports of the syndrome to choke a horse. Flying builder
> recommendations I received were all the same- put as much weight in
> the right side of the plane as possible to counter the effect.
> Bill Naumuk
> Townville, Pa.
> HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
> *
>
>
> *
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Polk City crash |
My experience is as follows:
I fly the 601XL with hingeless ailerons.
The amount of trim required is affected by the weight of a single pilot,
whether you have had time to burn off some of the fuel in the left tank
(about 4 gallons in my case), my airspeed (80-90 mph requires more trim
than 120 mph) and some additional is needed to overcome the stiffness of
the hingeless design. I usually have 2/3 of the trim in when at pattern
speeds with equal fuel in the tanks and flying alone. This aircraft
flys perfectly straight when the passenger and fuel weight is balanced.
With the electric trim system, there is nothing difficult about
adjusting the trim or flying the aircraft with different flight speeds
and loads. In fact it is incredibly fun to maneuver when the air is
dead calm and I am getting exactly the performance that I have set up.
This is the best time to appreciate the smoothness of the control
system. With a shorter wingspan than a 'C' brand the aileron trim will
need to deflect an additional amount to compensate for the same pilot
due to the shorter arm.
The aircraft is nimble and a pleasure to fly.
Gary Ray
davgray@sbcglobal.net
601XL, WW Corvair, 0.060 over, Roy Szarafinski's 5th Bearing, Falcon
Heads
----- Original Message -----
From: roger lambert
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:22 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Polk City crash
The NTSB has updated the report. For those who haven't read it, an
interesting paragraph speaks volumes.
"During a telephone interview, the previous owner of the airplane
stated that
when flying the airplane with a single occupant in the left seat, it
was normal
to trim the aileron fully in a right wing down direction in order to
maintain
lateral balance"
Those of us who have actually flown the airplane know that this is
indicative of
some serious misconfiguration in the construction of the airframe. The
aileron
trim is extremely sensitive and never requires more than minimal
change off
level to maintain trim. It is hard to imagine even attempring to fly
the
airplane with that much trim dialed in.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Polk City crash |
My 601HDS has been like that for 15 years and I haven't crashed yet..
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
Message 10
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I have added a couple of new items to my Experimental Aircraft parts list.
I now have a really nice CNC cut Data Plate with a Zenith Logo. Is really
cool!
Also have added a line of CNC cut Fuel Drain Trim plates.
Check it out at: http://www.mykitairplane.com
<blocked::http://www.mykitairplane.com/>
Thanks,
George
Message 11
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| Subject: | Heavy wing stuff |
Guys,
I think the issue is a matter of degrees.? The former owner of the Polk City airplane
said that it took MAXIMUM aileron trim to keep the wings level with only
one aboard.? Does any one else have to use MAX aileron trim to keep the wings
level ?
Jay Bannister
Do not archive
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff |
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff |
Hi Jay,
The question of how much trim is needed on a given plane is all about
the exact rigging of that plane. If the wings are a little bit off
in their angle of incidence this would explain need for a lot of trim.
I don't think this does anything to explain major accidents. I
learned in my R/C flying days that a plane doesn't have to be
properly put together to fly. It will go faster and "Nicer" if all
is perfect, but just about anything will fly. Perhaps you have seen
video of the flying lawn mower?
Paul
XL grounded
do not archive
At 05:50 PM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
>Guys,
>
>I think the issue is a matter of degrees. The former owner of the
>Polk City airplane said that it took MAXIMUM aileron trim to keep
>the wings level with only one aboard. Does any one else have to use
>MAX aileron trim to keep the wings level ?
>
>Jay Bannister
>Do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff |
All-
I have at times used maximum trim to level the wings. Then I burned off
some fuel on the heavy side and reduced the amount of trim needed. Jay,
that means it is relative.
Leo Gates
jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I think the issue is a matter of degrees. The former owner of the
> Polk City airplane said that it took MAXIMUM aileron trim to keep the
> wings level with only one aboard. Does any one else have to use MAX
> aileron trim to keep the wings level ?
>
> Jay Bannister
> Do not archive
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
> *
>
>
> *
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: DFW Builders get together |
Count me in for the DFW Builders get together.
Ron
Haslet,TX
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