Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:40 AM - Re: Polk City crash (Scotsman)
2. 05:36 AM - Heavy wing stuff II (Jake Reyna)
3. 05:48 AM - Heavy left wing (roger lambert)
4. 06:29 AM - Re: Heavy wing stuff II (Gig Giacona)
5. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Heavy wing stuff II (pdn8r@yahoo.com)
6. 07:37 AM - Re: Heavy wing stuff II (cookwithgas)
7. 07:48 AM - Re: Zenith-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 06/25/09 (Don Baker)
8. 07:55 AM - Re: Heavy wing stuff II (Jim Belcher)
9. 08:23 AM - Re: Heavy wing stuff II (Gig Giacona)
10. 08:24 AM - Re: Heavy wing stuff (Dave Austin)
11. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Heavy wing stuff II (Dave Austin)
12. 09:11 AM - What Not To Do... (Gig Giacona)
13. 09:20 AM - Re: Heavy wing stuff II (Gig Giacona)
14. 10:13 AM - Re: Re: Heavy wing stuff II (jaybannist@cs.com)
15. 10:20 AM - Heavy wing (roger lambert)
16. 10:30 AM - Re: What Not To Do... (Art Gibeaut)
17. 10:44 AM - Re: Re: Heavy wing stuff II (Bill Naumuk)
18. 10:44 AM - Tap for Canopy Screws (Bill Pagan)
19. 10:53 AM - Re: What Not To Do... (pavel569)
20. 10:53 AM - Re: Polk City crash (sdthatcher)
21. 11:09 AM - Re: Re: Heavy wing stuff II (LarryMcFarland)
22. 11:09 AM - Re: Tap for Canopy Screws (Bryan Martin)
23. 11:09 AM - Re: Tap for Canopy Screws (jaybannist@cs.com)
24. 11:11 AM - Re: Tap for Canopy Screws (Ashley)
25. 11:32 AM - Re: Tap for Canopy Screws (Bill Pagan)
26. 11:56 AM - Re: Tap for Canopy Screws (Bryan Martin)
27. 01:41 PM - Re: Heavy wing stuff II (Gig Giacona)
28. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: Heavy wing stuff II (Bill Naumuk)
29. 04:30 PM - Re: Re: Polk City crash (Juan Vega)
30. 09:01 PM - Re: Heavy wing stuff II (Tim Juhl)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Polk City crash |
Also interesting is the report's finding that an inferior quality of material for
the spar cap was not used and that it was T6061. Really opens up more questions
than answers but does at less end the inferior material version.
j
--------
Cell +27 83 675 0815
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250109#250109
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Heavy wing stuff II |
The causes of the heavy left wing is Asymmetrical thrust, P-factor, torque, and
it is exacerbated by loading up the left side of the airplane when flying solo.
There are some taildraggers that need to flown from the rear seat when solo
to compensate for CG and a Zodiac should be flown from the right seat when flying
solo to compensate for Asymmetrical thrust, P-factor and torque.
Read the "Aerodynamics of Maneuvering Flight" in the Jeppesen Private Pilot Manual.
Aileron trim is drag, it's a spoiler. To make matters worse, when you engage Aileron
trim you also deflect the ailerons, that's it's job, and now you're flying
with 3 spoilers deflected, creating drag while in the climb/cruise configuration.
Less drag is better.
There is nothing wrong with the configuration of the airplane, all airplanes have
this issue, but it's seems worse since the Zodiacs are light. I took this issue
into consideration while building and setup the airplane to fly from either
seat.
Jake
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
The mere fact that so many airplanes are using different levels of aileron
trim just to maintain level flight is indicative of the degree of
construction variation tha exist in the fleet of existing airplanes.
Now, go ask those aeronautical engineers, or read those aeronautical
engineering treatises so often quoted in this forum; and get an opinion on
an airplane that has to use maximum aileron trim deflection just to maintain
level flight with just one person aboard.
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
jakereyna(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> The causes of the heavy left wing is Asymmetrical thrust, P-factor, torque, and
it is exacerbated by loading up the left side of the airplane when flying solo.
There are some taildraggers that need to flown from the rear seat when solo
to compensate for CG and a Zodiac should be flown from the right seat when
flying solo to compensate for Asymmetrical thrust, P-factor and torque.
>
> Jake
Yet another reason to use a Covair engine, they spin backwards.
One thing I noted in the report was the witness that stated the plane had banked
3 to 5 degrees one way then another. I question if anyone could be that precise
when looking at a plane at altitude.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250135#250135
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
Gig brings up an interesting point.- I didn't plan on installing aileron
trim.- Give me some pluses and minuses on this topic.- I am using a cor
vair engine.- What do you say Scott and other flying corvairs?- Any pro
blems with aileron trim.- Have it don't have it etc.?
Bill Pagan
EAA Tech Counselor #4395
601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
--- On Fri, 6/26/09, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy wing stuff II
jakereyna(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> The causes of the heavy left wing is Asymmetrical thrust, P-factor, torqu
e, and it is exacerbated by loading up the left side of the airplane when f
lying solo. There are some taildraggers that need to flown from the rear se
at when solo to compensate for CG and a Zodiac should be flown from the rig
ht seat when flying solo to compensate for Asymmetrical thrust, P-factor an
d torque.
>
> Jake
Yet another reason to use a Covair engine, they spin backwards.
One thing I noted in the report was the witness that stated the plane had b
anked 3 to 5 degrees one way then another. I question if anyone could be th
at precise when looking at a plane at altitude.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250135#250135
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
Bill:
I have aileron trim. I flew to Baton Rouge with my wife and some luggage in the
back and I don't recall touching it in about 9 hours of flying there and back
with some sight seeing in between. A few days later I flew by myself for about
20 minutes and I don't remember using it then either.
My buttons are on my stick so I may do it out of habit from time to time while
I'm cruising without thinking about it. While I was learning to fly I accidentally
held down the left button to full left trim while taking off and I didn't
understand what was happening. My instructor knew right away and told me to
get my hand off the trim button. It was pretty frightening for a low-hour student
but if it ever happens again I'll know what it is. I often forget to reset
the elevator trim when taking off and it is also very noticable but easy to
quickly correct.
I don't have an indicator for aileron trim - just peek out the left side to see
if it is straight. I do have an indicator for the elevator trim because I can't
see it and I use it every time I land - full flaps = full up trim.
Tomorrow we are going to fly around DFW to a little airport called Hidden Valley
near Denton, TX so I'll try to see what happens if I purposely don't touch it
with the two of us flying. I'll make a note to do the same when I fly next
time by myself.
I would recommend installing it just in case. It was easy to do and would be a
pain if you started flying and decided to install it after the fact.
Scott in Texas
601XL/Corvair
150 hours and climbing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250150#250150
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Zenith-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 06/25/09 |
would you please stop sending these e-mails. Thanks
>>> Zenith-List Digest Server <zenith-list@matronics.com> 06/26/09 2:16 AM >>>
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
=================================================
Today's complete Zenith-List Digest can also be found in either of the
two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted
in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes
and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version
of the Zenith-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor
such as Notepad or with a web browser.
HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 09-06-25&Archive=Zenith
Text Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 09-06-25&Archive=Zenith
===============================================
EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
===============================================
----------------------------------------------------------
Zenith-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Thu 06/25/09: 15
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:10 AM - Re: DFW Builders get together (burbby)
2. 06:09 AM - Re: Re: Rivnuts (Jim Belcher)
3. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: Rivnuts (Juan Vega)
4. 01:23 PM - Polk City crash (roger lambert)
5. 02:49 PM - Left wing low syndrome (Bill Naumuk)
6. 03:13 PM - Re: Re: Rivnuts (Phil Maxson)
7. 03:50 PM - Re: Left wing low syndrome (Leo Gates)
8. 04:21 PM - Re: Polk City crash (Gary Ray)
9. 05:42 PM - Re: Polk City crash (Dave Austin)
10. 05:50 PM - Some New Stuff (George Race)
11. 05:51 PM - Heavy wing stuff (jaybannist@cs.com)
12. 06:12 PM - Re: Heavy wing stuff (purplemoon99@bellsouth.net)
13. 06:17 PM - Re: Heavy wing stuff (Paul Mulwitz)
14. 08:56 PM - Re: Heavy wing stuff (Leo Gates)
15. 09:51 PM - Re: DFW Builders get together (Ron Ellis)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 02:10:44 AM PST US
From: burbby <burbby@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: DFW Builders get together
JAY
I am very interested and cannot wait to meet you and other builders in the area.
What can I do to help? Please keep me posted on date and times if they change...
Please email me direct to burbby@yahoo.com.
Thanks
Gary Bassham
Ch601XL (N7601)resereved
Millsap, TX
--- On Mon, 6/22/09, jaybannist@cs.com <jaybannist@cs.com> wrote:
> From: jaybannist@cs.com <jaybannist@cs.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: DFW Builders get together
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com, zenith601-list@matronics.com, corvaircraft@mylist.net
> Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 7:42 PM
> Attention Zenith builders and flyers in the DFW
> (Texas) area.
>
>
>
> If there is enough interest, we plan to have a breakfast
> meeting on July 18 at
>
> Hicks Airfield (T67), fly in or drive in. There are a
> whole bunch of us in
>
> various stages of building 601s, 650s, 701s, 750s and 801s
> in this area and it
>
> would be great for all of us to meet one another and talk
> about our passions
>
> (and our perils).
>
>
>
> If interested, please let me know, on line or off.
>
>
>
> Thanks - Jay Bannister 601XL "Lil Bruiser"
>
>
>
>
>
> Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 06:09:15 AM PST US
From: Jim Belcher <z601@anemicaardvark.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivnuts
On Wednesday 24 June 2009 16:34, Gig Giacona wrote:
>
> I was going to use Rivnuts and got some to play with and see how they
> worked. I have nut plates and no rivnuts in my plane.
>
I'd second this. It is possible to get rivnuts to work, but it takes a lot of
practice, and a lot of rivnuts get wasted in the process. By the time one
learns how to set a rivnut, enough rivnuts have been used that the nut plates
would look cheap in comparison, not to mention the time involved.
I don't know how many times I've had to drill out a rivnut, and do the job
again. Sometimes, on certificated aircraft, there is no choice, because the
manufacturer used rivnuts. It's also the only way I've found to set a
fastener when the back area isn't accessable, unless one is going to use
pulled rivets.
I really feel most of us (including me) are better off with nut plates.
===========================================
Do not archive.
===========================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
===========================================
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 07:39:02 AM PST US
From: Juan Vega <amyvega2005@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivnuts
DO NOT PUT LOCKTIGHT ON THEM! IF THEY GET STUCK THE RIVNUT WILL UNKATCH AND YOU
HAVE TO DRILL THE ENTIRE THING OUT,or hold it with plyers from the back.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Maxson <pmaxpmax@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Sent: Jun 24, 2009 9:08 PM
>To: "zenith-list@matronics.com " <zenith-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivnuts
>
>
>>> I even used located on them. <<
>
>Whoops! I meant LOCKTITE on them. Dang blackberry spill chicker.
>
>Phil Maxson
>601XL/Corvair
>
>
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 01:23:16 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Polk City crash
From: roger lambert <n601ap@gmail.com>
The NTSB has updated the report. For those who haven't read it, an
interesting paragraph speaks volumes.
"During a telephone interview, the previous owner of the airplane stated
that
when flying the airplane with a single occupant in the left seat, it was
normal
to trim the aileron fully in a right wing down direction in order to
maintain
lateral balance"
Those of us who have actually flown the airplane know that this is
indicative of
some serious misconfiguration in the construction of the airframe. The
aileron
trim is extremely sensitive and never requires more than minimal change off
level to maintain trim. It is hard to imagine even attempring to fly the
airplane with that much trim dialed in.
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 02:49:36 PM PST US
From: "Bill Naumuk" <naumuk@windstream.net>
Subject: Zenith-List: Left wing low syndrome
All-
The recently posted concern about use of full aileron trim resulting
in a crash is to my mind invalid as a factor unique to the event. Every
601 builder I've talked to (Incuding some with projects that deserve
Lindy consideration) report the same condition. No difference between
XL, HDS, and HD models. The archives have enough reports of the syndrome
to choke a horse. Flying builder recommendations I received were all the
same- put as much weight in the right side of the plane as possible to
counter the effect.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 03:13:49 PM PST US
From: "Phil Maxson " <pmaxpmax@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Rivnuts
How about if I just remove them all from my plane? Problem solved.
Phil Maxson
601XL/Corvair
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 03:50:07 PM PST US
From: Leo Gates <leo@zuehlfield.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Left wing low syndrome
All-
From day one my HDS had the same tendency. Solo, left wing heavy.
Dual, level. I did not worry about it, just trimmed with the electric
trim. I thought that was what it was for.
Leo Gates
Bill Naumuk wrote:
> All-
> The recently posted concern about use of full aileron trim
> resulting in a crash is to my mind invalid as a factor unique to the
> event. Every 601 builder I've talked to (Incuding some with projects
> that deserve Lindy consideration) report the same condition. No
> difference between XL, HDS, and HD models. The archives have enough
> reports of the syndrome to choke a horse. Flying builder
> recommendations I received were all the same- put as much weight in
> the right side of the plane as possible to counter the effect.
> Bill Naumuk
> Townville, Pa.
> HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 04:21:46 PM PST US
From: "Gary Ray" <davgray@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polk City crash
My experience is as follows:
I fly the 601XL with hingeless ailerons.
The amount of trim required is affected by the weight of a single pilot,
whether you have had time to burn off some of the fuel in the left tank
(about 4 gallons in my case), my airspeed (80-90 mph requires more trim
than 120 mph) and some additional is needed to overcome the stiffness of
the hingeless design. I usually have 2/3 of the trim in when at pattern
speeds with equal fuel in the tanks and flying alone. This aircraft
flys perfectly straight when the passenger and fuel weight is balanced.
With the electric trim system, there is nothing difficult about
adjusting the trim or flying the aircraft with different flight speeds
and loads. In fact it is incredibly fun to maneuver when the air is
dead calm and I am getting exactly the performance that I have set up.
This is the best time to appreciate the smoothness of the control
system. With a shorter wingspan than a 'C' brand the aileron trim will
need to deflect an additional amount to compensate for the same pilot
due to the shorter arm.
The aircraft is nimble and a pleasure to fly.
Gary Ray
davgray@sbcglobal.net
601XL, WW Corvair, 0.060 over, Roy Szarafinski's 5th Bearing, Falcon
Heads
----- Original Message -----
From: roger lambert
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 4:22 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Polk City crash
The NTSB has updated the report. For those who haven't read it, an
interesting paragraph speaks volumes.
"During a telephone interview, the previous owner of the airplane
stated that
when flying the airplane with a single occupant in the left seat, it
was normal
to trim the aileron fully in a right wing down direction in order to
maintain
lateral balance"
Those of us who have actually flown the airplane know that this is
indicative of
some serious misconfiguration in the construction of the airframe. The
aileron
trim is extremely sensitive and never requires more than minimal
change off
level to maintain trim. It is hard to imagine even attempring to fly
the
airplane with that much trim dialed in.
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 05:42:33 PM PST US
From: "Dave Austin" <daveaustin2@primus.ca>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Polk City crash
My 601HDS has been like that for 15 years and I haven't crashed yet..
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 05:50:13 PM PST US
From: "George Race" <mykitairplane@mrrace.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Some New Stuff
I have added a couple of new items to my Experimental Aircraft parts list.
I now have a really nice CNC cut Data Plate with a Zenith Logo. Is really
cool!
Also have added a line of CNC cut Fuel Drain Trim plates.
Check it out at: http://www.mykitairplane.com
<blocked::http://www.mykitairplane.com/>
Thanks,
George
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 05:51:32 PM PST US
Subject: Zenith-List: Heavy wing stuff
From: jaybannist@cs.com
Guys,
I think the issue is a matter of degrees.? The former owner of the Polk City airplane
said that it took MAXIMUM aileron trim to keep the wings level with only
one aboard.? Does any one else have to use MAX aileron trim to keep the wings
level ?
Jay Bannister
Do not archive
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
Time: 06:12:45 PM PST US
From: purplemoon99@bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Heavy wing stuff
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
Time: 06:17:15 PM PST US
From: Paul Mulwitz <psm@att.net>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Heavy wing stuff
Hi Jay,
The question of how much trim is needed on a given plane is all about
the exact rigging of that plane. If the wings are a little bit off
in their angle of incidence this would explain need for a lot of trim.
I don't think this does anything to explain major accidents. I
learned in my R/C flying days that a plane doesn't have to be
properly put together to fly. It will go faster and "Nicer" if all
is perfect, but just about anything will fly. Perhaps you have seen
video of the flying lawn mower?
Paul
XL grounded
do not archive
At 05:50 PM 6/25/2009, you wrote:
>Guys,
>
>I think the issue is a matter of degrees. The former owner of the
>Polk City airplane said that it took MAXIMUM aileron trim to keep
>the wings level with only one aboard. Does any one else have to use
>MAX aileron trim to keep the wings level ?
>
>Jay Bannister
>Do not archive
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
Time: 08:56:52 PM PST US
From: Leo Gates <leo@zuehlfield.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Heavy wing stuff
All-
I have at times used maximum trim to level the wings. Then I burned off
some fuel on the heavy side and reduced the amount of trim needed. Jay,
that means it is relative.
Leo Gates
jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I think the issue is a matter of degrees. The former owner of the
> Polk City airplane said that it took MAXIMUM aileron trim to keep the
> wings level with only one aboard. Does any one else have to use MAX
> aileron trim to keep the wings level ?
>
> Jay Bannister
> Do not archive
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
> *
>
>
> *
________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
Time: 09:51:50 PM PST US
From: Ron Ellis <rge177@yahoo.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: DFW Builders get together
Count me in for the DFW Builders get together.
Ron
Haslet,TX
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
I don't yet have any time in a Zenith, so I can't comment on how our aircraft
may fly with/without aileron trim. However, my experience flying another
aircraft for many years made me decide to install aileron trim in the 601XL.
That aircraft had elevator and rudder trim, but no aileron trim. When I was
first flying it, I would set the trim controls per the operating manual. I'd
get airborne, and retrim.
But I noticed that I was left wing heavy with just me aboard and full fuel.
Not badly or dangerously so, but enough that I needed to hold a little
aileron to keep the wings level.
After a while, I learned to take off on the left wing tank, and fly until I
started to need a bit of aileron to hold the right wing up. I'd then switch
to the right tank, and continue switching back and forth throughout the
flight so that neither wing needed a bit of aileron to stay level.
The sensation in flight was that the wing on whose side I was, or which had
the most fuel seemed heavy. My conclusion, after around 1,000 hours in that
aircraft, was that I would have been happier if it had aileron trim.
Thus, there was no question in my mind for the Zenith: it was going to get
aileron trim. I still plan to manage the fuel by switching between tanks in
flight, but instead of constantly holding some force against the "heavy"
wing, I hope to trim out the force with the aileron trim.
Now, if I just had a rudder trim!
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
Bad boy... That should be on your check list and a take off postion should be marked
on the indicator.
cookwithgas wrote:
> I often forget to reset the elevator trim when taking off and it is also very
noticable but easy to quickly correct.
>
> I don't have an indicator for aileron trim
You want one? I have an indicator I'm not using.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250161#250161
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff |
Yes. I just nudge it so that the max light is out.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
Me again. If I fly right seat alone I need almost full trim the other
way. If I fly with passenger, trim is close to the middle. Maybe I
have a small trim tab? But it doesn't suggest I have a problem.
Dave Austin 601HDS - 912
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | What Not To Do... |
This linked NTSB report on an RV-10 accident should be required reading for all
EXP-HB builders. Not to speak ill of the dead but it is a text book example of
pretty much everything not to do with a new airplane.
One guy died maybe reading this will save several.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&ntsbno=NYC08FA023&akey=1
If broken http://tinyurl.com/kwbsml
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250172#250172
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
How do the sizes of the XL ailerons compare to the HD & HDS ailerons?
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250174#250174
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
Bill,
I specifically asked the test pilot that first flew my airplane if he noticed a
heavy left wing.? He said he felt no heavy wing, left or right.? He is a tall
guy, probably 200 lbs,? the engine is a Corvair.? There were 10 gallons of fuel
in each wing.? I don't know which tank he took off using, but he flew a little
over an hour and said he did change tanks.
Jay Bannister
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: pdn8r@yahoo.com
Sent: Fri, Jun 26, 2009 8:57 am
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy wing stuff II
Gig brings up an interesting point.? I didn't plan on installing aileron trim.?
Give me some pluses and minuses on this topic.? I am using a corvair engine.?
What do you say Scott and other flying corvairs?? Any problems with aileron trim.?
Have it don't have it etc.?
Bill Pagan
EAA Tech Counselor #4395
601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
--- On Fri, 6/26/09, Gig Giacona
<wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy wing stuff II
jakereyna(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> The causes of the heavy left wing is Asymmetrical thrust, P-factor, torque, and
it is exacerbated by loading up the left side of the airplane when flying solo.
There are some taildraggers that need to flown from the rear seat when solo
to compensate for CG and a Zodiac should be flown from the right seat when
flying solo to compensate for Asymmetrical thrust, P-factor and torque.
>
> Jake
Yet another reason to use a Covair engine, they spin backwards.
One thing I noted in the report was the witness that stated the plane had banked
3 to 5 degrees one way then another. I question if anyone could be that precise
when looking at a plane at altitude.
--------
W.R.
"Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtf="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List" target=_blank rel= ? ? ? ? ? ???- MATRONICS WEB FORUMp; ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? -Matt Draronics.com/contribution" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronic===================
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
For your consideration as there are many reasons for a heavy wing:
The solution to keeping the wing balanced at all airspeeds is to have the
weight of the aircraft balanced from side to side and to make sure both
wings gain and lose lift in exactly the same way as airspeed changes; that
actually takes a little effort. Following are some possible causes of
airspeed-dependent lift imbalance.
1)* Aileron hinge-line gaps.* If air can go through the aileron hinge lines,
it will. That represents a loss of lift, and the leakage is an often
unpredictable function of airspeed, angle of attack, "G" loading, and
aileron-control deflection or trim. That means the leakage is seldom
balanced from side to side. The leakage often gets worse at high angles of
attack, such as in a climb. The airplane will turn to that side.
2) *Imperfect airfoils.* Tiny differences in airfoil shape from side to side
(especially the rounding of the LEs) can require that the ailerons be
trimmed to counteract. The aileron deflection and airfoil shape will have
different airspeed characteristics, so the trim will be upset as the
airspeed changes.
3) *Wing warps, even subtle ones,* will require the ailerons to be trimmed
to counteract, and these two also vary with airspeed. The warp usually
maintains its influence at very low airspeeds better than the aileron
deflection.
4) *If the ailerons are trimmed to one side *to counteract a problem caused
by the rudder trim not being centered (or a crooked fin!), the balance
between these control surfaces will change with airspeed. We call this
condition an aileron vs. rudder *cross-trim*
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What Not To Do... |
Wow! What a scary reort. Thanks Gig.
--- On Fri, 6/26/09, Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
> Subject: Zenith-List: What Not To Do...
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 11:10 AM
> "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>
> This linked NTSB report on an RV-10 accident should be
> required reading for all EXP-HB builders. Not to speak ill
> of the dead but it is a text book example of pretty much
> everything not to do with a new airplane.
>
> One guy died maybe reading this will save several.
>
>
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id 071120X01821&ntsbno=NYC08FA023&akey=1
>
> If broken http://tinyurl.com/kwbsml
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250172#250172
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Email Forum -
> FAQ,
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt
> Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
Gig-
You're comparing apples to cumquats here.
HD and HDS aileron trim is not offered standard or as an option- it's
pretty much builder designed and implemented. There is a sketch for the HDS
from Zenith out there with recommended dimensions, but all the old hands I
talked too said the tab area was too small.
A couple of years ago I spent an entire Christmas vacation building a
proof-of-concept aileron trim installation. I increased the Zenith
recommended area of the tab 30% based on feedback from the old HDS people,
and made a provision in the design to allow an even greater increase.
Decreasing tab effectiveness is simple- just reduce the throw of the
actuator arm. Also, you have to remember that there are no flaps on an HDS
and the aileron is full span, so the tab can be located closer to the
centerline of the AC for greater effectiveness. Of course, you dont want to
go to far inboard to avoid the effects of propwash.
What puzzles me is that, considering the well documented track record of
left wing low when flying solo, Zenith loads the left wing of the XL up with
all the extra weight- landing and taxi lights, aileron trim installation and
servo, etc., and all far outboard.
Enough speculation- I'm headed out to the shop.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:19 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy wing stuff II
>
> How do the sizes of the XL ailerons compare to the HD & HDS ailerons?
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250174#250174
>
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Tap for Canopy Screws |
Any of you machinist types know the correct tap for the canopy screws?- L
ooks like a coarse thread.- I've searched the instructions and can't seem
to find it.
Bill Pagan
601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
=0A=0A=0A
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What Not To Do... |
> ...the airplane's first flight occurred with Clecos (temporary fasteners) holding
the upper aft portion of the cowling in place....
That reminds me of my mom. When she saw a pictures of the wing skin held by clecoes,
she very lightly asked me if it will not affect the aerodynamics of the
plane a little. :D
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PL (Reserved)
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table ....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250197#250197
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Polk City crash |
I wouldn't worry too much about the fact that a full trim deflection is used to
maintain a neutral roll of the aircraft. If you look at the moments about the
longitudinal axis, you have the pilot (approximately 220 lbs at 1 ft) that provides
a moment of 220 lb-ft plus the weight of the trim tab motor, etc which
yields about 20 lb-ft plus the light that yields about 20 lb-ft for a total of
260 lb-ft. Now you're trying to maintain neutral roll by full trim as well as
partial down aileron in the amount of 260 lb-ft. That is the equivalent of 26
lbs located about 10 feet from the aircraft center line, which should not be
a significant load at all and would not be of much concern in my opinion.
It would appear that, depending on pilot weight, locations of extras such as trim
motor, landing lights, and rigging that a number of different trim settings
might be needed for a single pilot flying left seat only. I just wished I thought
that far ahead and would have placed the trim and lights on the right wing
rather than the left!
Oh, Jay... I do fly with full aileron deflection to compensate for my weight when
flying left seat only and unfortunately I weigh more than 220 as well! I
may have to change the rigging at some point so that I can fly solo without that
much trim.
Scott Thatcher
N601EL w/ 27 hours
[quote="yak52"]The NTSB has updated the report. For those who haven't read it,
an interesting paragraph speaks volumes.
"During a telephone interview, the previous owner of the airplane stated that
when flying the airplane with a single occupant in the left seat, it was normal
to trim the aileron fully in a right wing down direction in order to maintain
lateral balance"
Those of us who have actually flown the airplane know that this is indicative of
some serious misconfiguration in the construction of the airframe. The aileron
trim is extremely sensitive and never requires more than minimal change off
level to maintain trim. It is hard to imagine even attempring to fly the
airplane with that much trim dialed in.
> [b]
--------
Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
N601EL, EAA203 25 hours and climbing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250198#250198
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
Bill,
It's as much about loads as propeller. You have wings loaded with fuel
and at some point you'll find the fuel remaining on that side will cause
you to put muscle onto the stick to compensate which is fatiguing on a
long flight. Fortunately, an electric aileron trim will reduce the effort
or cancel it completely. I recommend you install one as it's easier to
do before you finish.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
pdn8r@yahoo.com wrote:
> Gig brings up an interesting point. I didn't plan on installing
> aileron trim. Give me some pluses and minuses on this topic. I am
> using a corvair engine. What do you say Scott and other flying
> corvairs? Any problems with aileron trim. Have it don't have it etc.?
>
> Bill Pagan
> EAA Tech Counselor #4395
> 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tap for Canopy Screws |
The canopy screws on mine were self tapping sheet metal screws.
On Jun 26, 2009, at 1:44 PM, Bill Pagan wrote:
> Any of you machinist types know the correct tap for the canopy
> screws? Looks like a coarse thread. I've searched the instructions
> and can't seem to find it.
>
> Bill Pagan
> 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tap for Canopy Screws |
Bill,
The screws for the canopy that came with my kit were self-tapping screws.? Your's
aren't ?
Jay Bannister
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Pagan <pdn8r@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 26, 2009 12:44 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Tap for Canopy Screws
Any of you machinist types know the correct tap for the canopy screws?? Looks like
a coarse thread.? I've searched the instructions and can't seem to find it.
Bill Pagan
601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tap for Canopy Screws |
Bill
The screws are self tapping. Just drill the #40 hole per the plans and
screw them in. Do not over tighten or you could strip the out.
Floyd Wilkes
601XL
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Pagan
To: Zenith List
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:44 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Tap for Canopy Screws
Any of you machinist types know the correct tap for the canopy
screws? Looks like a coarse thread. I've searched the instructions and
can't seem to find it.
Bill Pagan
601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tap for Canopy Screws |
Well.........they appear to be self-tapping.......the confusion comes in th
e assembly manual "Canopy Assembly 6-C-4 page 7 of 9" which states "Tap the
holes in the bent tube frames 6C3-1 and 6C3-1 and along the inside Angle 6
C3-4 before the canopy is installed."- Well, I pretty much figured I wasn
't tapping the inside angle but was confused about the tubes.
Bill Pagan
601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
--- On Fri, 6/26/09, jaybannist@cs.com <jaybannist@cs.com> wrote:
From: jaybannist@cs.com <jaybannist@cs.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Tap for Canopy Screws
Bill,
The screws for the canopy that came with my kit were self-tapping screws.
- Your's aren't ?
Jay Bannister
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Pagan <pdn8r@yahoo.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 26, 2009 12:44 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Tap for Canopy Screws
Any of you machinist types know the correct tap for the canopy screws?- L
ooks like a coarse thread.- I've searched the instructions and can't seem
to find it.
Bill Pagan
601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
=0A=0A=0A
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Tap for Canopy Screws |
This probably calls for putting screws in the holes before actual
installation to ease the final installation.
On Jun 26, 2009, at 2:29 PM, Bill Pagan wrote:
> Well.........they appear to be self-tapping.......the confusion
> comes in the assembly manual "Canopy Assembly 6-C-4 page 7 of 9"
> which states "Tap the holes in the bent tube frames 6C3-1 and 6C3-1
> and along the inside Angle 6C3-4 before the canopy is installed."
> Well, I pretty much figured I wasn't tapping the inside angle but
> was confused about the tubes.
>
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
naumuk(at)windstream.net wrote:
> Gig-
> You're comparing apples to cumquats here.
> ---
Actually I was trying to get info that would stop the comparing of apples to cumquats
if that was the case.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250238#250238
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
Gig-
Being an HDS orphan, I'm not the guy.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:40 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy wing stuff II
>
>
> naumuk(at)windstream.net wrote:
>> Gig-
>> You're comparing apples to cumquats here.
>> ---
>
>
> Actually I was trying to get info that would stop the comparing of apples
> to cumquats if that was the case.
>
> --------
> W.R. "Gig" Giacona
> 601XL Under Construction
> See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250238#250238
>
>
>
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Polk City crash |
this is a very light weight aircraft and will fly hands off when properly trimmed.
It will ned some trim with one passenger, however that can be negated by
ing with you tools or you gear to the right of you. Also fly the left tank off
first and you will enjoy many hours of great hands off flying.
Juan
-----Original Message-----
>From: sdthatcher <s_thatcher@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Jun 26, 2009 1:53 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Polk City crash
>
>
>I wouldn't worry too much about the fact that a full trim deflection is used to
maintain a neutral roll of the aircraft. If you look at the moments about the
longitudinal axis, you have the pilot (approximately 220 lbs at 1 ft) that provides
a moment of 220 lb-ft plus the weight of the trim tab motor, etc which
yields about 20 lb-ft plus the light that yields about 20 lb-ft for a total of
260 lb-ft. Now you're trying to maintain neutral roll by full trim as well as
partial down aileron in the amount of 260 lb-ft. That is the equivalent of 26
lbs located about 10 feet from the aircraft center line, which should not be
a significant load at all and would not be of much concern in my opinion.
>
>It would appear that, depending on pilot weight, locations of extras such as trim
motor, landing lights, and rigging that a number of different trim settings
might be needed for a single pilot flying left seat only. I just wished I thought
that far ahead and would have placed the trim and lights on the right wing
rather than the left!
>
>Oh, Jay... I do fly with full aileron deflection to compensate for my weight when
flying left seat only and unfortunately I weigh more than 220 as well! I
may have to change the rigging at some point so that I can fly solo without that
much trim.
>
>Scott Thatcher
>N601EL w/ 27 hours
>
>[quote="yak52"]The NTSB has updated the report. For those who haven't read it,
an interesting paragraph speaks volumes.
>
> "During a telephone interview, the previous owner of the airplane stated that
>when flying the airplane with a single occupant in the left seat, it was normal
>to trim the aileron fully in a right wing down direction in order to maintain
> lateral balance"
>
>Those of us who have actually flown the airplane know that this is indicative
of
>some serious misconfiguration in the construction of the airframe. The aileron
>trim is extremely sensitive and never requires more than minimal change off
> level to maintain trim. It is hard to imagine even attempring to fly the
>airplane with that much trim dialed in.
>
>
>
>> [b]
>
>
>--------
>Scott Thatcher, Palm Beach Gardens, FL
>601XL with Corvair, Registered as E-LSA
>N601EL, EAA203 25 hours and climbing.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250198#250198
>
>
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heavy wing stuff II |
I installed an aftermarket aileron trim on my C182P - It carried 40 gallons of
fuel in each wing and as is typical of Cessna the tanks did not drain equally.
I would switch tanks to try to even out fuel load but still found the trim useful.
Indeed, the Cessna autopilot wouldn't hold a heading unless I had the
airplane trimmed hands off first.
I installed electric aileron trim in my Zodiac. I also installed wing lockers thinking
that weight could be added to the right locker to help balance the aircraft
when flying single pilot in the left seat. I guess I'll find out after
I fly it whether such an approach helps.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250281#250281
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|