Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:28 AM - Re: Flight Report with Video (jaybannist@cs.com)
2. 05:08 AM - Re: Re: What did you do today? ()
3. 06:01 AM - Re: What did you do today? (Darryl Legg)
4. 06:57 AM - Re: Emailing: 100_2937 (Jim Belcher)
5. 07:24 AM - Re: What did you do today? (Edward Moody II)
6. 07:25 AM - Re: Emailing: 100_2937Emailing: 100_2937 (Edward Moody II)
7. 07:38 AM - Re: Emailing: 100_2937Emailing: 100_2937 (Edward Moody II)
8. 07:41 AM - Re: What did you do today?What did you do today? (Edward Moody II)
9. 07:43 AM - Re: What did you do today? (Sabrina)
10. 08:09 AM - Re: What did you do today? (Sabrina)
11. 09:04 AM - Flap up adjustments. (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 09:07 AM - Apparent Heavy Wing (Chuck Deiterich)
13. 01:06 PM - Re: Flap up adjustments. (Sabrina)
14. 02:18 PM - Chat Room Reminder for Digesters (George Race)
15. 05:57 PM - Re: Apparent Heavy Wing (Tim Juhl)
16. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Flap up adjustments. (Juan Vega)
17. 06:38 PM - Re: Emailing: 100_2937 (Juan Vega)
18. 09:15 PM - Re: Flap up adjustments. (Sabrina)
19. 09:42 PM - Re: Re: Flap up adjustments. (Paul Mulwitz)
20. 10:16 PM - Re: Flap up adjustments. (Sabrina)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flight Report with Video |
Scott,
Thanks for the great report and video !!
BTW, there is nothing "newbie" or amateurish about relying on ATC for guidance
around Class D airspace, or Class C for that matter. It is the norm for high-timers
too; and in most cases, required.? With GPS, it is a lot easier to be aware
of those invisible airspace lines and limits than it was years ago when it
was mostly charts and watching where you are over the ground.? My main concern,
especially around that North side of the DFW area is the abundant traffic.?
ATC doesn't always call traffic (some of it they can't even see), so you need
to be especially alert, with head on swivel all the time.
Glad you (and your wife) are enjoying your airplane and the DFW area.? Its a great
life, ain't it?
Jay Bannister
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: cookwithgas <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 9:21 pm
Subject: Zenith-List: Flight Report with Video
What a day! Today I flew my 601XL/Corvair to three airports. My wife rode
along with with me and she was a real trooper with the heat. We flew by the new
Cowboy stadium and Texas Motor Speedway and lots of DFW area lakes.
The first stop was a short hop over to Midlothian (Midway) for fuel and it was
super quick. Up and down. I made possibly the best landing I have ever made on
this leg of the trip. There was guy there practicing banner grabbing with a
Citabria and that was pretty cool to watch while I was filling up.
The second leg was all the way from the southern portion of DFW Mode C to North
of DFW to a little private airport called Hidden Valley. The landing at Hidden
Valley was a blast with trees everywhere. The trees really wizzed by on
landing. The runway also slopes down hill the whole way.
After a visit with a friend there at Hidden Valley, the temperature had reached
One-Zero-Zero.
On the return I didn't even feel the heat because I was having so much fun. My
wife was getting uncomfortable I could tell but she really was great and had fun
sight seeing. I talked to Arlington Tower and Alliance Tower on the way there
and back and those guys are first class. For a new pilot like me with barely a
year of experience, they treated me great. The kept me out of trouble with
traffic and guided me under and around Class Bravo airspace at DFW. We were
watching large passenger jets fly over us - very cool and a little bit scary but
I knew those guys were watching me with my new Mode C transponder and encoder.
The landing at Eagles Nest was a no brainer again and I did my usual left side
landing. My wife tried to point me over to the left much as you do a bowling
ball after you release it, but I reacted the same as a released bowling ball. My
wife made a bee-line for the hangar after we landed to find some cool air. It
was a great day. I captured some of it on a video from my cockpit mount and you
can see it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHaWGi1rf0c
Have a good day (I sure did)
Scott Laughlin in Texas
601XL/Corvair
149 hours and climbing
PS: Concerning the aileron trim - I never touched it the whole time we where
flying. I'll take note the next time I fly alone.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250389#250389
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What did you do today? |
Good for you, both on the visit and the SATs. I think my sats added up
to my shoe size, lo, those many years ago. Since this was meant to be a
forum, rather than a flame competition, I would love to read about your
modifications. There's sure to be something we could all benefit from.
(maybe not all 300, but how about some of your favorites?)
Paul Rodriguez
----- Original Message -----
From: Sabrina<mailto:chicago2paris@msn.com>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 8:53 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: What did you do today?
<chicago2paris@msn.com<mailto:chicago2paris@msn.com>>
Hey there guys... just back from Mexico, MO... just had my first ride
in an XL winged craft... the rudder was stiffer than I expected, slow
flight performance was not as good as the C150L but it broke nose down
as it should, so that is good...
I had the Zenith plans marked up with my 300+ modifications with me
and it was a hit with the builders and Caleb...
I am most impressed that Zenith did NOT require a waiver of liability
from me for the flight. It demonstrates a great deal of confidence.
Tron Guy never showed so I am still looking for an XL experienced CFI
so I can solo the Sabrina Mark 1 which has been held in Phase 1 for that
purpose. I would like to be the one signing it out of Phase 1.
After further review and discussions, the Sabrina Mark 1 will NOT be
fitted with the LAA aileron mass balance. I have stiffened the center
spar and uprights per my own design. The German speed limit has been
lifted and page 1 (6-X-1 08/05) V speeds will be programmed into the
Dynon ASAP.
This is what Phase 1 is all about guys--come on Paul, quit calling
Caleb, get your wings back on, get it inspected and let's get St. Pauli
Girl in the air on July 14th!
35 on the ACT, so I am happy with that. :O)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250382#250382<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250382#250382>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What did you do today? |
[quote="Sabrina"] I have stiffened the center spar and uprights per my own design
Hi Sabrina, good to see you back on the list, a bit of sanity at last.
Have you already posted your center spar and upright mods, if not do you mind sharing
your design?Cheers
Darryl.
[Laughing]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250423#250423
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: 100_2937 |
On Saturday 27 June 2009 21:13, jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> Texans don't need to apologize for bragging, especially when its the simple
> truth. (Only when it is "pushing" the truth a little, maybe).
>
> Its hot here in Dallas, too.? I saw 103 today and I think this is 6 or 7
> days straight over 100. I try to get outside stuff done before noon.? It is
> supposed to cool off, clear down to 97 for a few days.??
Poor fellow Texans. My turn to gloat: Texas is a big state, with a lot of
variety in weather. Here in the Chihuahua desert, it's been a dry 96 by
mid-afternoon, with nights in the 60s or upper 50s.
I do remember the hot days when I lived northeast of Dallas. It seemed some
days like I practically had to pry the plane off the ground.
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What did you do today? |
Congratulations on the ACT score (very nice indeed) as well as your fun
and instructive trip. We'll stand by waiting for word on your completion
of Phase 1. Of course if you are ever in my neighborhood you will be a
welcome guest.
Ed
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: 100_2937Emailing: 100_2937 |
A high of only 97??? Better get that heavy coat back out of the closet.
Ed
Do Not Archive
Do Not Risk Frostbite
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: 100_2937Emailing: 100_2937 |
Oh yeah, while we're on the subject of bragging... anybody kinda sore
over there in Texas after being rode hard and put up wet courtesy of LSU
Tiger baseball? Welcome to the SEC experience fellas. Don't erase the
tape of the second game... it was a Kodak moment for the horns.
Geaux Tigers
Ed
Do Not Archive nor Mess With the Tigers
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What did you do today?What did you do today? |
Way to go. Now the saga continues with more excitement.
Ed
Do Not Archive
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What did you do today? |
Join me at the Zenith dinner at Air Venture, I will bring the plans again. So
too, I will be around Air Venture from 7/26 through 8/1. Your best bet would
be to add the LAA center spar/upright mods, they will have been proven by that
time and should be available.
Over the past couple months Zenith worked with me by punching out .032 aileron
ribs for me to hang the bobs from. In light of the German testing, there seems
to be more downside than upside to aileron mass balancing unless one gets it
"just right." So too, my particular airframe has not demonstrated any tell
tale signs of flutter onset. Much of what a few XL pilots are feeling in flight
could well be the flaps shuddering due to no stop gap or some flap extension
beyond 80 MPH. This seems to be indicated by the German tests.
If I had a shiny airplane and I flew over a power plant and experienced what I
thought was flutter, I would land, put a long piece of duct tape over the top
of/sealing each flap gap, pull the fuse on the flaps and then go solo over the
same power plant again. The flap stop gap nylo does little if the flap limits
are set improperly.
So too, my flap stop gap was modified, it gives different performance than the
factory design since it engages the veritcle portion of the spar rather than the
horizontal. It is mounted on the flap rather than the spar.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250440#250440
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: What did you do today? |
My favorite top 10 mods are the ones I came up with on my own, not to say someone
did not invent it before me, but I had not seen it:
#1 The aileron attach gussets and AS5 inboard rivet.
#2 Lengthening the aircraft 3" so FAA/PMA plugs would fit under the cowl on an
O-200A engine.
#3 My tub of foam forward fuselage/turtle deck mods
#4 My panel/foot rest (includes center spar/cabin floor mods)
#5 My canopy: it ejects and I added a rail wedge to make canopy fitting easy.
#6 My doubling of 6B-8-9, trimming and flipping the second lower bearing support
180 degrees so it locks the nose strut in place even when the nylo bearing wants
to give.
#7 My fuel system. (wobble pump, no selector, one way valves, using the pumps themselves
to help reinforce the center spar)
#8 My 4130 head rests which reinforce the rear spar carry through.
#9 My relief hole on the leading edge to prevent the fuel sender/tank from overstressing
the leading edge rivets.
#10 Moving the tie down to RR8 from RR9.
If any of the above were already designed by someone else, I don't remember seeing
them, but I do thank you.
My favorite mod that is not mine, pitching the H stab down 2+ degrees. (From the
guy at Oshkosh in 2006 who drove me from the Hilton Garden in Gate to the Theater
in the Woods.)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250444#250444
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Flap up adjustments. |
Hi Sabrina,
I thought the flap stop issue was about the flap itself moving around
when in the up position. It sounds like you think it has something
to do with the air seal when the flaps are up. Is that the
case? Why do you feel that way? Or, is your tape on the flap gap a
matter of holding the flap firmly in place?
I found I wanted a "Press fit" between the flap and the wing rear
channel structure when the motor is stopped in the up
direction. This way the flap is very firmly held in place during
normal flight activities. Also, take note of the fact I found this
very difficult to accomplish. The adjustment is all done while
"Standing on your head" after mounting the wings to connect the two
flap torque tubes to the control arm tube. My approach was to add
another "Inner" tube bolted to one of the torque tubes, then connect
the two outer tubes together making the flaps move exactly together,
and finally using the center control arm tube to adjust the final
position along with the motor stop switches.
Paul
XL grounded
At 07:43 AM 6/28/2009, you wrote:
>If I had a shiny airplane and I flew over a power plant and
>experienced what I thought was flutter, I would land, put a long
>piece of duct tape over the top of/sealing each flap gap, pull the
>fuse on the flaps and then go solo over the same power plant
>again. The flap stop gap nylo does little if the flap limits are
>set improperly.
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Apparent Heavy Wing |
Proper installation of the engine side thrust (about 3 degrees right for
Jabiru, 912's, Lycomings) will counteract Pfactor and torque. The
offset is tailored for normal cruise. That is why in a Cessna 150 you
hold right rudder during takeoff and climb at WOT.
The down elevator cable on my Zenith 701 is pulled to the right by a
spring to keep it from rubbing the up elevator cable. This puts a
torque on the stick to the left and thus the heavy left wing. I have a
trim tab on the right flaperon to take out some, but not all of the
heavy left wing. I have a jackscrew arrangement that pulls on a spring
attached to the right flaperon rod for roll trim. When parked the stick
always leans to the left. I can trim with any configuration of wing
tank quantities.
Pfactor and torque are not the cause for making apparent heavy wings on
Zenith aircraft.
Chuck D.
N701TX
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flap up adjustments. |
The factory flap stop is too solid for my taste. If you move the flap stop to
the flap and have it engage the .025 rear spar there is a bit of give and take
tension that builds between the stop and the spar, whereas with the factory method
seems to be hit or miss.
The duct tape would be a quick way of holding the flap in place during Phase 1
testing.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250493#250493
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Chat Room Reminder for Digesters |
Live Chat Room every Monday evening around 8:00 EDT
www.mykitairplane.com <blocked::http://www.mykitairplane.com/>
Click on the Chat Room link on the page.
Check out my new "Zenith Logo" Data Plate, really cool!
George
Do Not Archive
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Apparent Heavy Wing |
Don't forget asymmetrical thrust due to the difference in lift generated between
the ascending and descending blades (different angles of attack.)
In level flight and reduced rpms such an effect is reduced.
Tim
--------
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Working on fuselage
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250525#250525
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flap up adjustments. |
Sabrina,
I complete;y dissagree with your assessment. Most stops on most aircraft are actually
an adjustable screw/ bolt.
The flap stop needs to be solid, and the flap motor needs top push the flap past
the point of where it is touching the stop to about 2 mm past. htis locks the
flap in place. any movement makes for a half _ss install and rushed. Using
duct tape for the phase I is just bad advice. DO it right the first time,
built it right the first time.
jUAN vEGA
-----Original Message-----
>From: Sabrina <chicago2paris@msn.com>
>Sent: Jun 28, 2009 4:05 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Flap up adjustments.
>
>
>The factory flap stop is too solid for my taste. If you move the flap stop to
the flap and have it engage the .025 rear spar there is a bit of give and take
tension that builds between the stop and the spar, whereas with the factory
method seems to be hit or miss.
>
>The duct tape would be a quick way of holding the flap in place during Phase 1
testing.
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250493#250493
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Emailing: 100_2937 |
NICE PLANE wADE! yOU ALMOST LOOK TOO BIG FOR IT:)
\
jUAN
-----Original Message-----
>From: wade jones <wjones@brazoriainet.com>
>Sent: Jun 27, 2009 9:26 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Emailing: 100_2937
>
>Hello group ,I did not fly as long as Ed today but I had as much fun I bet .I
also flew out over the Gulf of Mexico ,I only live 12 miles from the gulf .It
is way too hot in South texas to fly unless you are going someplace and can get
high .Sorry it's not Zenith related but at 75 years of age I need to brag some
and yall know how Texans like to brag .
>100_2937
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flap up adjustments. |
It is clear that the German test results show that a improperly stopped flap gap
is bad news. If one is conducting Vne Phase 1 testing, duct tape over the
flap gap sounds like a good idea to me, just in case the builder did not get it
correct. Not during all of Phase 1, just for critical periods during Phase
1.
I would even say so for the maiden flight... just one less thing to go wrong.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250546#250546
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flap up adjustments. |
Hi Sabrina,
I agree with everything you said about the flaps and phase 1
testing. As I remember reading in the FAA test Advisory Circular,
you should not use flaps on your first flight. That is similar to
not cycling the landing gear on your first flight if you have
retracts. It is all about doing as little as possible to make the
first flight as likely as possible to be successful and without problems.
My take on the bigger issue with Zodiac XL flaps is the question of
how they might contribute to in-flight problems. If they are not
firmly held in place during cruise flight then they could definitely
make life very interesting. Any movement and particularly any
repeated and possibly diverging oscillation would certainly cause
unwanted excitement. They have a shape and location similar to
ailerons, but you really don't want them to act at all like ailerons.
I agree with Juan's comments about forcing the flaps against the
stops with the flap motor. That should keep them out of any
interesting events in normal flight. It would be even better if you
could get them to lock in place. It seems to be a different thing
entirely when the flaps are deployed. Then the more interesting
question might be whether they present an even load or lift to the
airframe without introducing a roll component to make life more interesting.
Have fun,
Paul
XL grounded
At 09:14 PM 6/28/2009, you wrote:
>It is clear that the German test results show that a improperly
>stopped flap gap is bad news. If one is conducting Vne Phase 1
>testing, duct tape over the flap gap sounds like a good idea to me,
>just in case the builder did not get it correct. Not during all of
>Phase 1, just for critical periods during Phase 1.
>
>I would even say so for the maiden flight... just one less thing to go wrong.
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Flap up adjustments. |
The solid stop XL flaps I have seen seem to have a smaller gap inboard than outboard.
This appears to be from the flap motor, which is connected to the inboard
portion of the flap, twisting the flap the 2mm Juan talks about. This puts
a slight washout on the inboard portion of the flap.
In flight, air flow is fighting the solid stop XL flap due to this washout.
My flap stop does not load/twist the flap, it loads the spar. In flight, my flap
stop is not being unloaded by air flow.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250550#250550
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|