Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:23 AM - Zodiacs in LA area (pavel569)
2. 08:13 AM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's ()
3. 08:28 AM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Larry Winger)
4. 08:34 AM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Gig Giacona)
5. 08:46 AM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Dave)
6. 10:08 AM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (PatrickW)
7. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Paul Mulwitz)
8. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Jay Maynard)
9. 11:52 AM - Heavy Left Wing (cookwithgas)
10. 12:09 PM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Gig Giacona)
11. 12:55 PM - Re: Heavy Left Wing (Bill Pagan)
12. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Rick Lindstrom)
13. 02:05 PM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (pavel569)
14. 02:08 PM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (PatrickW)
15. 02:34 PM - Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon (Gig Giacona)
16. 02:36 PM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Gig Giacona)
17. 02:52 PM - Re: UK 601XL flight testing started (aerobat)
18. 03:06 PM - Re: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon (Doug - SportAviation)
19. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Lawrence Webber)
20. 04:11 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's ()
21. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Lawrence Webber)
22. 04:42 PM - LAA Testing (roger lambert)
23. 05:12 PM - Re: LAA Testing (Lawrence Webber)
24. 05:22 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Carolyn Gardner)
25. 05:24 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Leo Gates)
26. 06:22 PM - Re: LAA Testing (Doug - SportAviation)
27. 06:28 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (skyriderekm)
28. 06:42 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Elden Jacobson)
29. 07:12 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Leo Gates)
30. 07:12 PM - Re: Heavy Left Wing (Leo Gates)
31. 11:29 PM - Re: LAA Testing (MaxNr@aol.com)
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| Subject: | Zodiacs in LA area |
I'd like to get some time in Zodiac and I remember there was one flight school
that was doing training in 601 XL but can not remember where. I guess, it was
in Long Beach but I'm not 100% sure.
Anybody knows if there is any in Southern California?
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PL (Reserved)
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table ....
"do not archive"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254083#254083
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| Subject: | Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's |
Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a mistake to post
any such political or cultural statement to the list, it is not necessarily a
racial statement at all (as Gig pointed out). A lot of folks object to the president's
political philosophy... "W" took a lot of heat too. And before anyone
brands me a racist, (and remember, I didn't start this) my first choice for
president would have been Dr. Alan Keyes. The last time I saw him, his tan was
alot darker than mine.
Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall we?
Ed
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
Several years ago there was an AMD at Torrance being used for instruction by
Jon Thornburg, but it was sold and Jon is using other LSA aircraft. The
next closest was Dragonfly in Santa Rosa, but they have stopped instructing
in the 601XL and are using a Gobosh. I get no answers to my multiple voice
messages to Silver Sky out of Chandler, AZ. So I'm stumped as well.
Hopefully someone on the list will have better news for those of us in the
Southwest U.S.
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
650/Corvair
Canopy nearly done
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 6:22 AM, pavel569 <pm569@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'd like to get some time in Zodiac and I remember there was one flight
> school that was doing training in 601 XL but can not remember where. I
> guess, it was in Long Beach but I'm not 100% sure.
> Anybody knows if there is any in Southern California?
>
> --------
> Pavel
> CA
> Zodiac XL N581PL (Reserved)
> Stratus Subaru EA-81
> Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table ....
>
> "do not archive"
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254083#254083
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
No where on Silver Sky's website does it mention training any more.
http://www.silverskyaviation.com/
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254119#254119
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| Subject: | Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's |
Nobody should be blocked over this. it was a stupid thing to post, no matter
how funny (or offensive) anyone found it politics does not belong here.
There are enough problems for some people to stay civil without bringing
anyones politics or (closet or overt) racism into it.
> Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a mistake to
> post any such political or cultural statement to the list, it is not
> necessarily a racial statement at all (as Gig pointed out). A lot of folks
> object
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
lwinger wrote:
> The next closest was Dragonfly in Santa Rosa, but they have stopped instructing
in the 601XL and are using a Gobosh. I get no answers to my multiple voice
messages to Silver Sky out of Chandler, AZ. So I'm stumped as well.
I'm very suprised that Dragonfly isn't using their XL's any more. I just flew
their new yellow XL in December. I liked it, and they seemed happy with it.
It was a very nice airplane. And I've flown the AMD at Silver Sky a couple times.
Great people in both locations. These are the guys I was hoping to do some more
flying with when I begin preparing myself for my own XL's first flight.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
XL/650/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254136#254136
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
At 10:07 AM 7/21/2009, you wrote:
>I'm very suprised that Dragonfly isn't using their XL's any more. I
>just flew their new yellow XL in December. I liked it, and they
>seemed happy with it.
Perhaps you forgot the NTSB recommended grounding all XLs in
April. I realize some builders have chosen to ignore that
recommendation, but I doubt any commercial operation would take such
a chance at getting sued.
Paul
XL grounded
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:07:13AM -0700, PatrickW wrote:
> I'm very suprised that Dragonfly isn't using their XL's any more. I just
> flew their new yellow XL in December. I liked it, and they seemed happy
> with it.
Seconded. Bob Archibald was very happy with his Zodiacs when I spoke to him
last. Wonder why the change?
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
Message 9
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Builders:
Of all the topics I've read on this list lately, the heavy left wing has stayed
with me for some reason. My airplane has never had a heavy left or right wing
even when I burn fuel off one tank or when I have a passenger so I had to think
about this a while. A local builder who has two Oshkosh winners was looking
at my airplane the other day and made a comment that didn't strike me at first
but I think it might be the reason for the heavy left wing.
He mentioned that it was smart for me to put lights in both wings because I "would
have felt it" if I had only put it in one wing. I noticed that the plans
call for the light to be in only the left wing.
Since I am flying with lights in both wings and don't have the problem, could it
be that the light in the left wing could be causing drag and lowering the wing?
Something to think about.
Scott Laughlin
152 hours
601XL/Corvair
Rebuilding Firewall & Nose Gear
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254153#254153
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
psm(at)att.net wrote:
>
> Perhaps you forgot the NTSB recommended grounding all XLs in
> April. I realize some builders have chosen to ignore that
> recommendation, but I doubt any commercial operation would take such
> a chance at getting sued.
>
That letter can't even be brought up in a US court.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254158#254158
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Left Wing |
That's an interesting thought Scott.- Back in the day (ten years ago) whe
n I first flew my RV I had a heavy wing and the fix at that time was to tig
hten (squeeze lightly) the trailing edge of the opposite aileron (used seam
ing pliers as I recall).- Alternatively to tap the trailing edge with a d
ead blow hammer using a block of wood on the trailing edge of the aileron o
n the heavy wing side.- All done very lightly.-- I think I have the s
ides right, trying to recall.- It worked for me and after making the adju
stment which was invisble to the naked eye my RV flew hands off.- Can pro
bably find this topic on the RV list archives.
Bill Pagan
EAA Tech Counselor #4395
601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES)
--- On Tue, 7/21/09, cookwithgas <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
From: cookwithgas <cookwithgas@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Zenith-List: Heavy Left Wing
Builders:
Of all the topics I've read on this list lately, the heavy left wing has st
ayed with me for some reason.- My airplane has never had a heavy left or
right wing even when I burn fuel off one tank or when I have a passenger so
I had to think about this a while.---A local builder who has two Osh
kosh winners was looking at my airplane the other day and made a comment th
at didn't strike me at first but I think it might be the reason for the hea
vy left wing.-
He mentioned that it was smart for me to put lights in both wings because I
"would- have felt it" if I had only put it in one wing.- I noticed tha
t the plans call for the light to be in only the left wing.-
Since I am flying with lights in both wings and don't have the problem, cou
ld it be that the light in the left wing could be causing drag and lowering
the wing?
Something to think about.
Scott Laughlin
152 hours
601XL/Corvair
Rebuilding Firewall & Nose Gear
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254153#254153
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
That, and it's an old "recommendation" (without the force of law) based on an apparent
problem that hadn't yet answered by the slack aileron cable discovery
and subsequent GVT.
Since we've installed our elevator stops, adjusted our cables to spec, made sure
the flap stops were installed, avoided flying well outside of the envelope,
and studied the findings from the GVT, the much discussed and debated "problem"
seems to have been greatly minimized.
That's a clear win in my book, even though some will insist otherwise.
Of course, you can appreciate why some agencies would recommend grounding until
the research was completed. I fully understand the "better safe than sorry" mindset,
even in this case. Thankfully, the data is in, and we can all start to
breathe easier.
Rick Lindstrom
Zenvair N42KP
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jul 21, 2009 3:08 PM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area
>
>
>
>psm(at)att.net wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps you forgot the NTSB recommended grounding all XLs in
>> April. I realize some builders have chosen to ignore that
>> recommendation, but I doubt any commercial operation would take such
>> a chance at getting sued.
>>
>
>
>That letter can't even be brought up in a US court.
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254158#254158
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
It seems that no matter what your question is, it will always slip to fly/no fly,
balance/no balance discussion with no end. Like a bunch of 2nd graders chatting
on school backyard.
Thanks to everyone who had tried to answer my question.
--------
Pavel
CA
Zodiac XL N581PL (Reserved)
Stratus Subaru EA-81
Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table ....
"do not archive"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254183#254183
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
psm(at)att.net wrote:
> Perhaps you forgot the NTSB recommended grounding all XLs in April. I realize
some builders have chosen to ignore that recommendation, but I doubt any commercial
operation would take such a chance at getting sued.
No doubt this is one reason. Probably also a simple matter of business competition:
flight schools that use the Zodiac (which it seems everyone "has heard
all about"), versus flight schools that use something else.
When I spoke to the Dragonfly people face to face, and flew with them in the XL
that they built themselves and maintain themselves, it reduced my level of concern
to the point where I'm comfortable proceeding with my own XL. I felt they
were competent in their abilities and confident in their aircraft. I'd fly
with them again in a heartbeat.
Personally, I do think that the XL is a capable and safe aircraft when properly
maintained and flown at Va. I believe the real issues lie with people who did
not build their own airplanes and who do not have a good feel for the limitations
of some of that thin metal, and who may try to fly it more like the +/-6G
138 mph machine that it was initially touted as, or perhaps like the heavier
Cessna's that they are accustomed to.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
XL/650/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254184#254184
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| Subject: | Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon |
Dynon's pitot tube is designed to be used with GretzAero's mount.
I, not thinking 5 years ahead, and not even thinking about using a Dynon probe
at the time drilled the holes for the stock Zenith probe and now, before I spend
a few hundred dollars need to know what the measurements for the GretzAero
hole pattern are to see if I can retrofit or do I have to live without an AOA
meter.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254195#254195
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
pavel569 wrote:
> It seems that no matter what your question is, it will always slip to fly/no
fly, balance/no balance discussion with no end. Like a bunch of 2nd graders chatting
on school backyard.
>
It is to be expected. Sort of like talking about politics and not mentioning politics.
The issue is sort of the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254197#254197
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| Subject: | Re: UK 601XL flight testing started |
>From the LAA website
http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/engineering_updates.html
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254198#254198
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| Subject: | Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with |
Dynon
Gig,
Do you know anyone who's lived with the Dynon AoA for any period of time,
and their opinion of its usefulness? If not, you might consider asking Frank
Derfler. He's had one on his Zodiac for three or four years. That might help
you decide the level of pain you want to inflict on yourself.
Doug N.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:34 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with
Dynon
Dynon's pitot tube is designed to be used with GretzAero's mount.
I, not thinking 5 years ahead, and not even thinking about using a Dynon
probe at the time drilled the holes for the stock Zenith probe and now,
before I spend a few hundred dollars need to know what the measurements for
the GretzAero hole pattern are to see if I can retrofit or do I have to live
without an AOA meter.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254195#254195
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
why dont you ask bob archibald his reasons????
Larry
> Date: Tue=2C 21 Jul 2009 12:22:12 -0500
> From: jmaynard@conmicro.com
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area
>
>
> On Tue=2C Jul 21=2C 2009 at 10:07:13AM -0700=2C PatrickW wrote:
> > I'm very suprised that Dragonfly isn't using their XL's any more. I jus
t
> > flew their new yellow XL in December. I liked it=2C and they seemed hap
py
> > with it.
>
> Seconded. Bob Archibald was very happy with his Zodiacs when I spoke to h
im
> last. Wonder why the change?
> --
> Jay Maynard=2C K5ZC=2C PP-ASEL=2C CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
> http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
> Fairmont=2C MN (KFRM) (Yes=2C that's me!)
> AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports
pics. Check it out.
http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGL
M_WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports
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| Subject: | Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's |
Block me too. Personally, I think that poltroon (go look it up) got
elected on a wave of hysteria, doesn't know what he's doing, and is
styling his way through. This still being America, we have the right to
ridicule anybody we want. And His Rectalness is in the top three.
Paul Rodriguez
DO NO ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: dredmoody@cox.net<mailto:dredmoody@cox.net>
To: zenith-list@matronics.com<mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's
<dredmoody@cox.net<mailto:dredmoody@cox.net>>
Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a
mistake to post any such political or cultural statement to the list, it
is not necessarily a racial statement at all (as Gig pointed out). A lot
of folks object to the president's political philosophy... "W" took a
lot of heat too. And before anyone brands me a racist, (and remember, I
didn't start this) my first choice for president would have been Dr.
Alan Keyes. The last time I saw him, his tan was alot darker than mine.
Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall we?
Ed
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Zenith-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Zodiacs in LA area |
Once again paul you should sign off as SELF IMPOSED grounded
Larry
> Date: Tue=2C 21 Jul 2009 10:28:57 -0700
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> From: psm@att.net
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area
>
>
> At 10:07 AM 7/21/2009=2C you wrote:
> >I'm very suprised that Dragonfly isn't using their XL's any more. I
> >just flew their new yellow XL in December. I liked it=2C and they
> >seemed happy with it.
>
>
> Perhaps you forgot the NTSB recommended grounding all XLs in
> April. I realize some builders have chosen to ignore that
> recommendation=2C but I doubt any commercial operation would take such
> a chance at getting sued.
>
> Paul
> XL grounded
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99 SkyDrive=99: Store=2C access=2C and share your photos. See
how.
http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072
009
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What we are seeing in the British "testing" is the final step in the
execution of a self fullfilling prophecy. I contacted the engineer with the
LAA to suggest that the test envelope be tried on the airplane without the
"modifications" designed by CH. Then to do the testing again on the airplane
after the "modifications" were done and compare the results. This would
seem to be a logical regimen. I was informed that the LAA would not do that
as they fully accepted the premise that flutter would occur with "slack"
aileron cables and it would be unnecessary to do "before" testing. They
also acccepted the premise that a structural strengthening of the center
spar carry through would be necessary although they had no evidence or
engineering study for that premise. Now they have done the after "test"
without any baseline or before tests to compare it with and will declare the
modifications a success and require the kit be installed in order fly the
airplane in the UK. The "flutter" people will pat themselves on the back
and declare themselves superior. Everyone else will face the prospect of
doing the modifications; and no one will know anymore about what really
caused the accidents than before. In case you don't realize it, this is not
a success in any form except that now some people can feel confident in
building and flying their airplane, at least until the next time someone
pulls 6 plus g's.
Message 23
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Well said Roger more BS will follow from "the renegade group"
Larry
Subject: Zenith-List: LAA Testing
From: n601ap@gmail.com
What we are seeing in the British "testing" is the final step in the execut
ion of a self fullfilling prophecy. I contacted the engineer with the LAA t
o suggest that the test envelope be tried on the airplane without the "modi
fications" designed by CH. Then to do the testing again on the airplane aft
er the "modifications" were done and compare the results. This would seem
to be a logical regimen. I was informed that the LAA would not do that as t
hey fully accepted the premise that flutter would occur with "slack" ailer
on cables and it would be unnecessary to do "before" testing. They also acc
cepted the premise that a structural strengthening of the center spar carry
through would be necessary although they had no evidence or engineering st
udy for that premise. Now they have done the after "test" without any base
line or before tests to compare it with and will declare the modifications
a success and require the kit be installed in order fly the airplane in the
UK. The "flutter" people will pat themselves on the back and declare them
selves superior. Everyone else will face the prospect of doing the modifica
tions=3B and no one will know anymore about what really caused the acciden
ts than before. In case you don't realize it=2C this is not a success in an
y form except that now some people can feel confident in building and flyin
g their airplane=2C at least until the next time someone pulls 6 plus g's.
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live=99 SkyDrive=99: Store=2C access=2C and share your photos. See
how.
http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072
009
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's |
BLOCK me too !!!=C2- I don't think Berry, has a clue what america is all
about. That's what I be thinkin...=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- time will tell.
=C2- Joe
--- On Tue, 7/21/09, paulrod36@msn.com <paulrod36@msn.com> wrote:
From: paulrod36@msn.com <paulrod36@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's
=EF=BB
Block me too. Personally, I think that poltroon (go look it up) got elected
on a wave of hysteria, doesn't know what he's doing, and is styling his wa
y through.=C2- This still being America, we have the right to ridicule an
ybody we want. And His Rectalness is in the top three.
=C2-
Paul Rodriguez
DO NO ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: dredmoody@cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's
Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a mistake to
post any such political or cultural statement to the list, it is not necess
arily a racial statement at all (as Gig pointed out). A lot of folks object
to the president's political philosophy... "W" took a lot of heat too. And
before anyone brands me a racist, (and remember, I didn't start this) my f
irst choice for president would have been Dr. Alan Keyes. The last time I s
aw him, his tan was alot darker than mine.
Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall p;=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp;=C2-
=C2-=C2- via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http:
//forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p;=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- generous bsp;=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- title=http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's |
OK. Done.
paulrod36@msn.com wrote:
> Block me too. Personally, I think that poltroon (go look it up) got
> elected on a wave of hysteria, doesn't know what he's doing, and is
> styling his way through. This still being America, we have the right
> to ridicule anybody we want. And His Rectalness is in the top three.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> DO NO ARCHIVE
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* dredmoody@cox.net <mailto:dredmoody@cox.net>
> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com <mailto:zenith-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:00 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's
>
> <mailto:dredmoody@cox.net>>
>
> Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a
> mistake to post any such political or cultural statement to the
> list, it is not necessarily a racial statement at all (as Gig
> pointed out). A lot of folks object to the president's political
> philosophy... "W" took a lot of heat too. And before anyone brands
> me a racist, (and remember, I didn't start this) my first choice
> for president would have been Dr. Alan Keyes. The last time I saw
> him, his tan was alot darker than mine.
>
> Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall
> p; Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web
> title=http://forums.matronics.com/
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>
> _p; generous bsp;
> title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 26
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Roger,
You have it exactly right, well said. In fact the short summary we see on
the LAA web site is rather equivocal about what they've done, what they've
tested, and how really establishes goodness. I'm sure it's a fine set of
tests. it's just that we have no idea what it proves. Perhaps only that they
have not broken the airplane with their modifications. ".These tests have
been conducted at various aileron cable tensions and the instrumentation is
showing excellent damping of the wing vibratory responses even at cable
tensions well below the manufacturers recommended settings. ..." As you
point out, there's an assumption of a 'wing vibratory response' to which
there is no evidence. In fact, just the opposite when factoring the German
testing and analysis. Talk about constructing a straw man to be knocked
down!
BTW: what has struck me lately is that Part 23 does not require
mass-balanced ailerons (we hear many who demand this as the only answer to a
(apparently imagined) problem). Consider the Alarus (yes, also a CH design).
It is a Part 23 certified airplane, and I don't believe it has mass-balanced
ailerons.
It's all quite fascinating.
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of roger lambert
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:41 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: LAA Testing
What we are seeing in the British "testing" is the final step in the
execution of a self fullfilling prophecy. I contacted the engineer with the
LAA to suggest that the test envelope be tried on the airplane without the
"modifications" designed by CH. Then to do the testing again on the airplane
after the "modifications" were done and compare the results. This would
seem to be a logical regimen. I was informed that the LAA would not do that
as they fully accepted the premise that flutter would occur with "slack"
aileron cables and it would be unnecessary to do "before" testing. They also
acccepted the premise that a structural strengthening of the center spar
carry through would be necessary although they had no evidence or
engineering study for that premise. Now they have done the after "test"
without any baseline or before tests to compare it with and will declare the
modifications a success and require the kit be installed in order fly the
airplane in the UK. The "flutter" people will pat themselves on the back
and declare themselves superior. Everyone else will face the prospect of
doing the modifications; and no one will know anymore about what really
caused the accidents than before. In case you don't realize it, this is not
a success in any form except that now some people can feel confident in
building and flying their airplane, at least until the next time someone
pulls 6 plus g's.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's |
I personally think this entire group is more funny and entertaining than the WWF
on Monday night!
Will ALL of you just get a GRIP and get on with building please???!
Thank you!!
(Stepping off my soap box now)
DO NOT ARCHIVE!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254239#254239
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's |
Will Rodgers probably said it best: Better to remain silent and thought a f
ool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
=C2-
Your vulgar rant would seem to have no place on this site.
=C2-
Elden Jacobson
xl/3300
No need to archive
--- On Wed, 7/22/09, paulrod36@msn.com <paulrod36@msn.com> wrote:
From: paulrod36@msn.com <paulrod36@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's
=EF=BB
Block me too. Personally, I think that poltroon (go look it up) got elected
on a wave of hysteria, doesn't know what he's doing, and is styling his wa
y through.=C2- This still being America, we have the right to ridicule an
ybody we want. And His Rectalness is in the top three.
=C2-
Paul Rodriguez
DO NO ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: dredmoody@cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's
Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a mistake to
post any such political or cultural statement to the list, it is not necess
arily a racial statement at all (as Gig pointed out). A lot of folks object
to the president's political philosophy... "W" took a lot of heat too. And
before anyone brands me a racist, (and remember, I didn't start this) my f
irst choice for president would have been Dr. Alan Keyes. The last time I s
aw him, his tan was alot darker than mine.
Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall p;=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp;=C2-
=C2-=C2- via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http:
//forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p;=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- generous bsp;=C2-=C2
-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-
=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- title=http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
=0A=0A=0A
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's |
OK Done.
Carolyn Gardner wrote:
> BLOCK me too !!! I don't think Berry, has a clue what america is all
> about. That's what I be thinkin... time will tell. Joe
>
> --- On *Tue, 7/21/09, paulrod36@msn.com /<paulrod36@msn.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: paulrod36@msn.com <paulrod36@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's
> To: zenith-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 7:01 PM
>
>
> Block me too. Personally, I think that poltroon (go look it up)
> got elected on a wave of hysteria, doesn't know what he's doing,
> and is styling his way through. This still being America, we have
> the right to ridicule anybody we want. And His Rectalness is in
> the top three.
>
> Paul Rodriguez
> DO NO ARCHIVE
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* dredmoody@cox.net
> <http://us.mc1806.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dredmoody@cox.net>
> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
> <http://us.mc1806.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=zenith-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:00 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's
>
> <http://us.mc1806.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dredmoody@cox.net>>
>
> Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is
> a mistake to post any such political or cultural statement to
> the list, it is not necessarily a racial statement at all (as
> Gig pointed out). A lot of folks object to the president's
> political philosophy... "W" took a lot of heat too. And before
> anyone brands me a racist, (and remember, I didn't start this)
> my first choice for president would have been Dr. Alan Keyes.
> The last time I saw him, his tan was alot darker than mine.
>
> Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall
> p; Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web
> title=http://forums.matronics.com/
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List>
> _p; generous bsp;
> title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================
>
>
> *
>
> arget=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
> =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Left Wing |
Scott,
My plane is an HDS, not XL, but I have a Taylorcraft BC12D with NO
lights also. Both behave the same. Years ago when I flew Cessna 120s,
Piper J3s, Luscombs etc. they also all demonstrated the same
characteristic. They all would/will, after trimming hands off, start a
shallow left turn if I shifted my weight to the left in the seat. A
shallow right turn is started if I shift my weight to the right. Lean
forward, descend at about 200 fpm. Lean back, climb at about 200 fpm.
Leo Gates
N601Z
cookwithgas wrote:
>
> Builders:
>
> Of all the topics I've read on this list lately, the heavy left wing has stayed
with me for some reason. My airplane has never had a heavy left or right wing
even when I burn fuel off one tank or when I have a passenger so I had to
think about this a while. A local builder who has two Oshkosh winners was looking
at my airplane the other day and made a comment that didn't strike me at
first but I think it might be the reason for the heavy left wing.
>
> He mentioned that it was smart for me to put lights in both wings because I "would
have felt it" if I had only put it in one wing. I noticed that the plans
call for the light to be in only the left wing.
>
> Since I am flying with lights in both wings and don't have the problem, could
it be that the light in the left wing could be causing drag and lowering the
wing?
>
> Something to think about.
>
> Scott Laughlin
> 152 hours
> 601XL/Corvair
> Rebuilding Firewall & Nose Gear
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254153#254153
>
>
>
Message 31
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Hi Roger.
Glad to see that you are still active in the search for answers to the
unfortunate accidents that involved in flight breakups of CH 601XLs. I recall
the msgs that we exchanged while you were trying to get your mind around one
of the fatalities. I sent you copies of that NTSB docket. I cited portions of
their report to bring you back to the facts as reported as you explored so
many blind alleys. I stopped trying when you set your mind on theories that
were not supported by NTSB findings.
I find comfort that the LAA and its engineers are conducting the tests with
Heintz designed modifications. Glad to see that you are offering
assistance. Please fill us in your qualifications. Engineering experience, pilot
ratings, hours etc. I have searched the various dockets and reports and I have
not yet found any instances of the improper pilot techniques that you report.
Especially, pulling six Gs. Please cite those instances from the reports. I
have only found reports of in flight breakups that happened in the
enroute/cruise phase of flight or in the traffic pattern. I did find a report from
France that reported a "rumor" that the pilot sometimes pulled almost three G.
This has resulted in some of the most avid supporters seriously
recommending three G as the new ultimate limit. I've seen a few remarks such as
"If he
does a 3 G pull up, the wing will fail." With friends like this....... The
LAA is beefing up the center spar. Silly LAA.
I forwarded to you, part of one report that the NTSB said that while
established in cruise for ten minutes after t.o., the front hor. stabilizer
brackets first failed downward, causing a 200 ft climb, then the h.s. popped up
causing a severe nose tuck that destroyed the ship. You favored pilot error.
This could have been caused because an inspection point (cracking, after 100
to 300 hours in svc.) in this area was first reported by CH in the Zenair
Association Newsletters. See ZN 150 (Sept-Oct, 2005) pg.2 for details. Then
another pilot reported in ZN 155 (July-Aug, 2006) pg. 8 finding these cracks
on his bird. I don't know. What do you think? I wasn't there.
Don't worry about me pulling all those Gs. My wife holds me down to 2 G. If
she is sitting next to me it is further reduced to one G.
Bob Dingley
CH601XL plans 6-6791
(Holding at the wings) Do not archive
**************
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