---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/21/09: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:23 AM - Zodiacs in LA area (pavel569) 2. 08:13 AM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's () 3. 08:28 AM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Larry Winger) 4. 08:34 AM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Gig Giacona) 5. 08:46 AM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Dave) 6. 10:08 AM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (PatrickW) 7. 10:34 AM - Re: Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Paul Mulwitz) 8. 10:45 AM - Re: Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Jay Maynard) 9. 11:52 AM - Heavy Left Wing (cookwithgas) 10. 12:09 PM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Gig Giacona) 11. 12:55 PM - Re: Heavy Left Wing (Bill Pagan) 12. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Rick Lindstrom) 13. 02:05 PM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (pavel569) 14. 02:08 PM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (PatrickW) 15. 02:34 PM - Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon (Gig Giacona) 16. 02:36 PM - Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Gig Giacona) 17. 02:52 PM - Re: UK 601XL flight testing started (aerobat) 18. 03:06 PM - Re: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon (Doug - SportAviation) 19. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Lawrence Webber) 20. 04:11 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's () 21. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Zodiacs in LA area (Lawrence Webber) 22. 04:42 PM - LAA Testing (roger lambert) 23. 05:12 PM - Re: LAA Testing (Lawrence Webber) 24. 05:22 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Carolyn Gardner) 25. 05:24 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Leo Gates) 26. 06:22 PM - Re: LAA Testing (Doug - SportAviation) 27. 06:28 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (skyriderekm) 28. 06:42 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Elden Jacobson) 29. 07:12 PM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Leo Gates) 30. 07:12 PM - Re: Heavy Left Wing (Leo Gates) 31. 11:29 PM - Re: LAA Testing (MaxNr@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:00 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Zodiacs in LA area From: "pavel569" I'd like to get some time in Zodiac and I remember there was one flight school that was doing training in 601 XL but can not remember where. I guess, it was in Long Beach but I'm not 100% sure. Anybody knows if there is any in Southern California? -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PL (Reserved) Stratus Subaru EA-81 Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table .... "do not archive" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254083#254083 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:30 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a mistake to post any such political or cultural statement to the list, it is not necessarily a racial statement at all (as Gig pointed out). A lot of folks object to the president's political philosophy... "W" took a lot of heat too. And before anyone brands me a racist, (and remember, I didn't start this) my first choice for president would have been Dr. Alan Keyes. The last time I saw him, his tan was alot darker than mine. Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall we? Ed ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:28:50 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Zodiacs in LA area From: Larry Winger Several years ago there was an AMD at Torrance being used for instruction by Jon Thornburg, but it was sold and Jon is using other LSA aircraft. The next closest was Dragonfly in Santa Rosa, but they have stopped instructing in the 601XL and are using a Gobosh. I get no answers to my multiple voice messages to Silver Sky out of Chandler, AZ. So I'm stumped as well. Hopefully someone on the list will have better news for those of us in the Southwest U.S. Larry Winger Tustin, CA 650/Corvair Canopy nearly done On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 6:22 AM, pavel569 wrote: > > I'd like to get some time in Zodiac and I remember there was one flight > school that was doing training in 601 XL but can not remember where. I > guess, it was in Long Beach but I'm not 100% sure. > Anybody knows if there is any in Southern California? > > -------- > Pavel > CA > Zodiac XL N581PL (Reserved) > Stratus Subaru EA-81 > Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table .... > > "do not archive" > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254083#254083 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:16 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area From: "Gig Giacona" No where on Silver Sky's website does it mention training any more. http://www.silverskyaviation.com/ -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254119#254119 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:32 AM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's Nobody should be blocked over this. it was a stupid thing to post, no matter how funny (or offensive) anyone found it politics does not belong here. There are enough problems for some people to stay civil without bringing anyones politics or (closet or overt) racism into it. > Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a mistake to > post any such political or cultural statement to the list, it is not > necessarily a racial statement at all (as Gig pointed out). A lot of folks > object ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:11 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area From: "PatrickW" lwinger wrote: > The next closest was Dragonfly in Santa Rosa, but they have stopped instructing in the 601XL and are using a Gobosh. I get no answers to my multiple voice messages to Silver Sky out of Chandler, AZ. So I'm stumped as well. I'm very suprised that Dragonfly isn't using their XL's any more. I just flew their new yellow XL in December. I liked it, and they seemed happy with it. It was a very nice airplane. And I've flown the AMD at Silver Sky a couple times. Great people in both locations. These are the guys I was hoping to do some more flying with when I begin preparing myself for my own XL's first flight. - Pat -------- Patrick XL/650/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254136#254136 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:34:43 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area At 10:07 AM 7/21/2009, you wrote: >I'm very suprised that Dragonfly isn't using their XL's any more. I >just flew their new yellow XL in December. I liked it, and they >seemed happy with it. Perhaps you forgot the NTSB recommended grounding all XLs in April. I realize some builders have chosen to ignore that recommendation, but I doubt any commercial operation would take such a chance at getting sued. Paul XL grounded do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:32 AM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:07:13AM -0700, PatrickW wrote: > I'm very suprised that Dragonfly isn't using their XL's any more. I just > flew their new yellow XL in December. I liked it, and they seemed happy > with it. Seconded. Bob Archibald was very happy with his Zodiacs when I spoke to him last. Wonder why the change? -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:31 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Heavy Left Wing From: "cookwithgas" Builders: Of all the topics I've read on this list lately, the heavy left wing has stayed with me for some reason. My airplane has never had a heavy left or right wing even when I burn fuel off one tank or when I have a passenger so I had to think about this a while. A local builder who has two Oshkosh winners was looking at my airplane the other day and made a comment that didn't strike me at first but I think it might be the reason for the heavy left wing. He mentioned that it was smart for me to put lights in both wings because I "would have felt it" if I had only put it in one wing. I noticed that the plans call for the light to be in only the left wing. Since I am flying with lights in both wings and don't have the problem, could it be that the light in the left wing could be causing drag and lowering the wing? Something to think about. Scott Laughlin 152 hours 601XL/Corvair Rebuilding Firewall & Nose Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254153#254153 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area From: "Gig Giacona" psm(at)att.net wrote: > > Perhaps you forgot the NTSB recommended grounding all XLs in > April. I realize some builders have chosen to ignore that > recommendation, but I doubt any commercial operation would take such > a chance at getting sued. > That letter can't even be brought up in a US court. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254158#254158 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:34 PM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Heavy Left Wing That's an interesting thought Scott.- Back in the day (ten years ago) whe n I first flew my RV I had a heavy wing and the fix at that time was to tig hten (squeeze lightly) the trailing edge of the opposite aileron (used seam ing pliers as I recall).- Alternatively to tap the trailing edge with a d ead blow hammer using a block of wood on the trailing edge of the aileron o n the heavy wing side.- All done very lightly.-- I think I have the s ides right, trying to recall.- It worked for me and after making the adju stment which was invisble to the naked eye my RV flew hands off.- Can pro bably find this topic on the RV list archives. Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES) --- On Tue, 7/21/09, cookwithgas wrote: From: cookwithgas Subject: Zenith-List: Heavy Left Wing Builders: Of all the topics I've read on this list lately, the heavy left wing has st ayed with me for some reason.- My airplane has never had a heavy left or right wing even when I burn fuel off one tank or when I have a passenger so I had to think about this a while.---A local builder who has two Osh kosh winners was looking at my airplane the other day and made a comment th at didn't strike me at first but I think it might be the reason for the hea vy left wing.- He mentioned that it was smart for me to put lights in both wings because I "would- have felt it" if I had only put it in one wing.- I noticed tha t the plans call for the light to be in only the left wing.- Since I am flying with lights in both wings and don't have the problem, cou ld it be that the light in the left wing could be causing drag and lowering the wing? Something to think about. Scott Laughlin 152 hours 601XL/Corvair Rebuilding Firewall & Nose Gear Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254153#254153 le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:25 PM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area That, and it's an old "recommendation" (without the force of law) based on an apparent problem that hadn't yet answered by the slack aileron cable discovery and subsequent GVT. Since we've installed our elevator stops, adjusted our cables to spec, made sure the flap stops were installed, avoided flying well outside of the envelope, and studied the findings from the GVT, the much discussed and debated "problem" seems to have been greatly minimized. That's a clear win in my book, even though some will insist otherwise. Of course, you can appreciate why some agencies would recommend grounding until the research was completed. I fully understand the "better safe than sorry" mindset, even in this case. Thankfully, the data is in, and we can all start to breathe easier. Rick Lindstrom Zenvair N42KP -----Original Message----- >From: Gig Giacona >Sent: Jul 21, 2009 3:08 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area > > > >psm(at)att.net wrote: >> >> Perhaps you forgot the NTSB recommended grounding all XLs in >> April. I realize some builders have chosen to ignore that >> recommendation, but I doubt any commercial operation would take such >> a chance at getting sued. >> > > >That letter can't even be brought up in a US court. > >-------- >W.R. "Gig" Giacona >601XL Under Construction >See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254158#254158 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:12 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area From: "pavel569" It seems that no matter what your question is, it will always slip to fly/no fly, balance/no balance discussion with no end. Like a bunch of 2nd graders chatting on school backyard. Thanks to everyone who had tried to answer my question. -------- Pavel CA Zodiac XL N581PL (Reserved) Stratus Subaru EA-81 Tail, flaps, ailerons, wings done, fuselage is on the table .... "do not archive" Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254183#254183 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:38 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area From: "PatrickW" psm(at)att.net wrote: > Perhaps you forgot the NTSB recommended grounding all XLs in April. I realize some builders have chosen to ignore that recommendation, but I doubt any commercial operation would take such a chance at getting sued. No doubt this is one reason. Probably also a simple matter of business competition: flight schools that use the Zodiac (which it seems everyone "has heard all about"), versus flight schools that use something else. When I spoke to the Dragonfly people face to face, and flew with them in the XL that they built themselves and maintain themselves, it reduced my level of concern to the point where I'm comfortable proceeding with my own XL. I felt they were competent in their abilities and confident in their aircraft. I'd fly with them again in a heartbeat. Personally, I do think that the XL is a capable and safe aircraft when properly maintained and flown at Va. I believe the real issues lie with people who did not build their own airplanes and who do not have a good feel for the limitations of some of that thin metal, and who may try to fly it more like the +/-6G 138 mph machine that it was initially touted as, or perhaps like the heavier Cessna's that they are accustomed to. - Pat -------- Patrick XL/650/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254184#254184 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:26 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon From: "Gig Giacona" Dynon's pitot tube is designed to be used with GretzAero's mount. I, not thinking 5 years ahead, and not even thinking about using a Dynon probe at the time drilled the holes for the stock Zenith probe and now, before I spend a few hundred dollars need to know what the measurements for the GretzAero hole pattern are to see if I can retrofit or do I have to live without an AOA meter. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254195#254195 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:20 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area From: "Gig Giacona" pavel569 wrote: > It seems that no matter what your question is, it will always slip to fly/no fly, balance/no balance discussion with no end. Like a bunch of 2nd graders chatting on school backyard. > It is to be expected. Sort of like talking about politics and not mentioning politics. The issue is sort of the 800 pound gorilla in the room. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254197#254197 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:08 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: UK 601XL flight testing started From: "aerobat" >From the LAA website http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/engineering_updates.html Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254198#254198 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:06:34 PM PST US From: "Doug - SportAviation" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon Gig, Do you know anyone who's lived with the Dynon AoA for any period of time, and their opinion of its usefulness? If not, you might consider asking Frank Derfler. He's had one on his Zodiac for three or four years. That might help you decide the level of pain you want to inflict on yourself. Doug N. -----Original Message----- From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gig Giacona Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 5:34 PM Subject: Zenith-List: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon Dynon's pitot tube is designed to be used with GretzAero's mount. I, not thinking 5 years ahead, and not even thinking about using a Dynon probe at the time drilled the holes for the stock Zenith probe and now, before I spend a few hundred dollars need to know what the measurements for the GretzAero hole pattern are to see if I can retrofit or do I have to live without an AOA meter. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254195#254195 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:06 PM PST US From: Lawrence Webber Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area why dont you ask bob archibald his reasons???? Larry > Date: Tue=2C 21 Jul 2009 12:22:12 -0500 > From: jmaynard@conmicro.com > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area > > > On Tue=2C Jul 21=2C 2009 at 10:07:13AM -0700=2C PatrickW wrote: > > I'm very suprised that Dragonfly isn't using their XL's any more. I jus t > > flew their new yellow XL in December. I liked it=2C and they seemed hap py > > with it. > > Seconded. Bob Archibald was very happy with his Zodiacs when I spoke to h im > last. Wonder why the change? > -- > Jay Maynard=2C K5ZC=2C PP-ASEL=2C CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com > http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net > Fairmont=2C MN (KFRM) (Yes=2C that's me!) > AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Hotmail=AE: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGL M_WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:56 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's Block me too. Personally, I think that poltroon (go look it up) got elected on a wave of hysteria, doesn't know what he's doing, and is styling his way through. This still being America, we have the right to ridicule anybody we want. And His Rectalness is in the top three. Paul Rodriguez DO NO ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: dredmoody@cox.net To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's > Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a mistake to post any such political or cultural statement to the list, it is not necessarily a racial statement at all (as Gig pointed out). A lot of folks object to the president's political philosophy... "W" took a lot of heat too. And before anyone brands me a racist, (and remember, I didn't start this) my first choice for president would have been Dr. Alan Keyes. The last time I saw him, his tan was alot darker than mine. Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall we? Ed http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:56 PM PST US From: Lawrence Webber Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area Once again paul you should sign off as SELF IMPOSED grounded Larry > Date: Tue=2C 21 Jul 2009 10:28:57 -0700 > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > From: psm@att.net > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: Zodiacs in LA area > > > At 10:07 AM 7/21/2009=2C you wrote: > >I'm very suprised that Dragonfly isn't using their XL's any more. I > >just flew their new yellow XL in December. I liked it=2C and they > >seemed happy with it. > > > Perhaps you forgot the NTSB recommended grounding all XLs in > April. I realize some builders have chosen to ignore that > recommendation=2C but I doubt any commercial operation would take such > a chance at getting sued. > > Paul > XL grounded > do not archive > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 SkyDrive=99: Store=2C access=2C and share your photos. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072 009 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:32 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: LAA Testing From: roger lambert What we are seeing in the British "testing" is the final step in the execution of a self fullfilling prophecy. I contacted the engineer with the LAA to suggest that the test envelope be tried on the airplane without the "modifications" designed by CH. Then to do the testing again on the airplane after the "modifications" were done and compare the results. This would seem to be a logical regimen. I was informed that the LAA would not do that as they fully accepted the premise that flutter would occur with "slack" aileron cables and it would be unnecessary to do "before" testing. They also acccepted the premise that a structural strengthening of the center spar carry through would be necessary although they had no evidence or engineering study for that premise. Now they have done the after "test" without any baseline or before tests to compare it with and will declare the modifications a success and require the kit be installed in order fly the airplane in the UK. The "flutter" people will pat themselves on the back and declare themselves superior. Everyone else will face the prospect of doing the modifications; and no one will know anymore about what really caused the accidents than before. In case you don't realize it, this is not a success in any form except that now some people can feel confident in building and flying their airplane, at least until the next time someone pulls 6 plus g's. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:40 PM PST US From: Lawrence Webber Subject: RE: Zenith-List: LAA Testing Well said Roger more BS will follow from "the renegade group" Larry Subject: Zenith-List: LAA Testing From: n601ap@gmail.com What we are seeing in the British "testing" is the final step in the execut ion of a self fullfilling prophecy. I contacted the engineer with the LAA t o suggest that the test envelope be tried on the airplane without the "modi fications" designed by CH. Then to do the testing again on the airplane aft er the "modifications" were done and compare the results. This would seem to be a logical regimen. I was informed that the LAA would not do that as t hey fully accepted the premise that flutter would occur with "slack" ailer on cables and it would be unnecessary to do "before" testing. They also acc cepted the premise that a structural strengthening of the center spar carry through would be necessary although they had no evidence or engineering st udy for that premise. Now they have done the after "test" without any base line or before tests to compare it with and will declare the modifications a success and require the kit be installed in order fly the airplane in the UK. The "flutter" people will pat themselves on the back and declare them selves superior. Everyone else will face the prospect of doing the modifica tions=3B and no one will know anymore about what really caused the acciden ts than before. In case you don't realize it=2C this is not a success in an y form except that now some people can feel confident in building and flyin g their airplane=2C at least until the next time someone pulls 6 plus g's. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 SkyDrive=99: Store=2C access=2C and share your photos. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072 009 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:21 PM PST US From: Carolyn Gardner Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's BLOCK me too !!!=C2- I don't think Berry, has a clue what america is all about. That's what I be thinkin...=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- time will tell. =C2- Joe --- On Tue, 7/21/09, paulrod36@msn.com wrote: From: paulrod36@msn.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's =EF=BB Block me too. Personally, I think that poltroon (go look it up) got elected on a wave of hysteria, doesn't know what he's doing, and is styling his wa y through.=C2- This still being America, we have the right to ridicule an ybody we want. And His Rectalness is in the top three. =C2- Paul Rodriguez DO NO ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: dredmoody@cox.net Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a mistake to post any such political or cultural statement to the list, it is not necess arily a racial statement at all (as Gig pointed out). A lot of folks object to the president's political philosophy... "W" took a lot of heat too. And before anyone brands me a racist, (and remember, I didn't start this) my f irst choice for president would have been Dr. Alan Keyes. The last time I s aw him, his tan was alot darker than mine. Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall p;=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp;=C2- =C2-=C2- via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http: //forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p;=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- generous bsp;=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- title=http://www.matronics.com/contributio n href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ================ ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:22 PM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's OK. Done. paulrod36@msn.com wrote: > Block me too. Personally, I think that poltroon (go look it up) got > elected on a wave of hysteria, doesn't know what he's doing, and is > styling his way through. This still being America, we have the right > to ridicule anybody we want. And His Rectalness is in the top three. > > Paul Rodriguez > DO NO ARCHIVE > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* dredmoody@cox.net > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:00 AM > *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's > > > > > Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a > mistake to post any such political or cultural statement to the > list, it is not necessarily a racial statement at all (as Gig > pointed out). A lot of folks object to the president's political > philosophy... "W" took a lot of heat too. And before anyone brands > me a racist, (and remember, I didn't start this) my first choice > for president would have been Dr. Alan Keyes. The last time I saw > him, his tan was alot darker than mine. > > Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall > p; Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web > title=http://forums.matronics.com/ > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > _p; generous bsp; > title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================ > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:21 PM PST US From: "Doug - SportAviation" Subject: RE: Zenith-List: LAA Testing Roger, You have it exactly right, well said. In fact the short summary we see on the LAA web site is rather equivocal about what they've done, what they've tested, and how really establishes goodness. I'm sure it's a fine set of tests. it's just that we have no idea what it proves. Perhaps only that they have not broken the airplane with their modifications. ".These tests have been conducted at various aileron cable tensions and the instrumentation is showing excellent damping of the wing vibratory responses even at cable tensions well below the manufacturers recommended settings. ..." As you point out, there's an assumption of a 'wing vibratory response' to which there is no evidence. In fact, just the opposite when factoring the German testing and analysis. Talk about constructing a straw man to be knocked down! BTW: what has struck me lately is that Part 23 does not require mass-balanced ailerons (we hear many who demand this as the only answer to a (apparently imagined) problem). Consider the Alarus (yes, also a CH design). It is a Part 23 certified airplane, and I don't believe it has mass-balanced ailerons. It's all quite fascinating. From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of roger lambert Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 7:41 PM Subject: Zenith-List: LAA Testing What we are seeing in the British "testing" is the final step in the execution of a self fullfilling prophecy. I contacted the engineer with the LAA to suggest that the test envelope be tried on the airplane without the "modifications" designed by CH. Then to do the testing again on the airplane after the "modifications" were done and compare the results. This would seem to be a logical regimen. I was informed that the LAA would not do that as they fully accepted the premise that flutter would occur with "slack" aileron cables and it would be unnecessary to do "before" testing. They also acccepted the premise that a structural strengthening of the center spar carry through would be necessary although they had no evidence or engineering study for that premise. Now they have done the after "test" without any baseline or before tests to compare it with and will declare the modifications a success and require the kit be installed in order fly the airplane in the UK. The "flutter" people will pat themselves on the back and declare themselves superior. Everyone else will face the prospect of doing the modifications; and no one will know anymore about what really caused the accidents than before. In case you don't realize it, this is not a success in any form except that now some people can feel confident in building and flying their airplane, at least until the next time someone pulls 6 plus g's. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:35 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's From: "skyriderekm" I personally think this entire group is more funny and entertaining than the WWF on Monday night! Will ALL of you just get a GRIP and get on with building please???! Thank you!! (Stepping off my soap box now) DO NOT ARCHIVE! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254239#254239 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:59 PM PST US From: Elden Jacobson Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's Will Rodgers probably said it best: Better to remain silent and thought a f ool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt. =C2- Your vulgar rant would seem to have no place on this site. =C2- Elden Jacobson xl/3300 No need to archive --- On Wed, 7/22/09, paulrod36@msn.com wrote: From: paulrod36@msn.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's =EF=BB Block me too. Personally, I think that poltroon (go look it up) got elected on a wave of hysteria, doesn't know what he's doing, and is styling his wa y through.=C2- This still being America, we have the right to ridicule an ybody we want. And His Rectalness is in the top three. =C2- Paul Rodriguez DO NO ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: dredmoody@cox.net Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is a mistake to post any such political or cultural statement to the list, it is not necess arily a racial statement at all (as Gig pointed out). A lot of folks object to the president's political philosophy... "W" took a lot of heat too. And before anyone brands me a racist, (and remember, I didn't start this) my f irst choice for president would have been Dr. Alan Keyes. The last time I s aw him, his tan was alot darker than mine. Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall p;=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp;=C2- =C2-=C2- via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http: //forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p;=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- generous bsp;=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- title=http://www.matronics.com/contributio n href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ================ =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:12 PM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's OK Done. Carolyn Gardner wrote: > BLOCK me too !!! I don't think Berry, has a clue what america is all > about. That's what I be thinkin... time will tell. Joe > > --- On *Tue, 7/21/09, paulrod36@msn.com //* wrote: > > > From: paulrod36@msn.com > Subject: Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's > To: zenith-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 7:01 PM > > > Block me too. Personally, I think that poltroon (go look it up) > got elected on a wave of hysteria, doesn't know what he's doing, > and is styling his way through. This still being America, we have > the right to ridicule anybody we want. And His Rectalness is in > the top three. > > Paul Rodriguez > DO NO ARCHIVE > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* dredmoody@cox.net > > *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 21, 2009 10:00 AM > *Subject:* Re: Zenith-List: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's > > > > > Go ahead and block me too then. While as Wade admitted, it is > a mistake to post any such political or cultural statement to > the list, it is not necessarily a racial statement at all (as > Gig pointed out). A lot of folks object to the president's > political philosophy... "W" took a lot of heat too. And before > anyone brands me a racist, (and remember, I didn't start this) > my first choice for president would have been Dr. Alan Keyes. > The last time I saw him, his tan was alot darker than mine. > > Now let's all get back to Zenith building and flying, shall > p; Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web > title=http://forums.matronics.com/ > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > _p; generous bsp; > title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================ > > > * > > arget=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List > =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com > blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:12 PM PST US From: Leo Gates Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Heavy Left Wing Scott, My plane is an HDS, not XL, but I have a Taylorcraft BC12D with NO lights also. Both behave the same. Years ago when I flew Cessna 120s, Piper J3s, Luscombs etc. they also all demonstrated the same characteristic. They all would/will, after trimming hands off, start a shallow left turn if I shifted my weight to the left in the seat. A shallow right turn is started if I shift my weight to the right. Lean forward, descend at about 200 fpm. Lean back, climb at about 200 fpm. Leo Gates N601Z cookwithgas wrote: > > Builders: > > Of all the topics I've read on this list lately, the heavy left wing has stayed with me for some reason. My airplane has never had a heavy left or right wing even when I burn fuel off one tank or when I have a passenger so I had to think about this a while. A local builder who has two Oshkosh winners was looking at my airplane the other day and made a comment that didn't strike me at first but I think it might be the reason for the heavy left wing. > > He mentioned that it was smart for me to put lights in both wings because I "would have felt it" if I had only put it in one wing. I noticed that the plans call for the light to be in only the left wing. > > Since I am flying with lights in both wings and don't have the problem, could it be that the light in the left wing could be causing drag and lowering the wing? > > Something to think about. > > Scott Laughlin > 152 hours > 601XL/Corvair > Rebuilding Firewall & Nose Gear > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254153#254153 > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:56 PM PST US From: MaxNr@aol.com Subject: Zenith-List: Re: LAA Testing Hi Roger. Glad to see that you are still active in the search for answers to the unfortunate accidents that involved in flight breakups of CH 601XLs. I recall the msgs that we exchanged while you were trying to get your mind around one of the fatalities. I sent you copies of that NTSB docket. I cited portions of their report to bring you back to the facts as reported as you explored so many blind alleys. I stopped trying when you set your mind on theories that were not supported by NTSB findings. I find comfort that the LAA and its engineers are conducting the tests with Heintz designed modifications. Glad to see that you are offering assistance. Please fill us in your qualifications. Engineering experience, pilot ratings, hours etc. I have searched the various dockets and reports and I have not yet found any instances of the improper pilot techniques that you report. Especially, pulling six Gs. Please cite those instances from the reports. I have only found reports of in flight breakups that happened in the enroute/cruise phase of flight or in the traffic pattern. I did find a report from France that reported a "rumor" that the pilot sometimes pulled almost three G. This has resulted in some of the most avid supporters seriously recommending three G as the new ultimate limit. I've seen a few remarks such as "If he does a 3 G pull up, the wing will fail." With friends like this....... The LAA is beefing up the center spar. Silly LAA. I forwarded to you, part of one report that the NTSB said that while established in cruise for ten minutes after t.o., the front hor. stabilizer brackets first failed downward, causing a 200 ft climb, then the h.s. popped up causing a severe nose tuck that destroyed the ship. You favored pilot error. This could have been caused because an inspection point (cracking, after 100 to 300 hours in svc.) in this area was first reported by CH in the Zenair Association Newsletters. See ZN 150 (Sept-Oct, 2005) pg.2 for details. Then another pilot reported in ZN 155 (July-Aug, 2006) pg. 8 finding these cracks on his bird. I don't know. What do you think? I wasn't there. Don't worry about me pulling all those Gs. My wife holds me down to 2 G. If she is sitting next to me it is further reduced to one G. Bob Dingley CH601XL plans 6-6791 (Holding at the wings) Do not archive ************** Dell Deals: Treat yourself to a sweet deal on popular laptops! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.