---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/22/09: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:39 AM - Re: Re: LAA Testing (Bob Collins) 2. 05:19 AM - Re: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (LINLARMAYES@aol.com) 3. 05:26 AM - Re: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Ken Arnold) 4. 05:35 AM - LAA Testing (roger lambert) 5. 06:08 AM - Re: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon (Gig Giacona) 6. 06:11 AM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Gig Giacona) 7. 06:11 AM - LAA Testing (roger lambert) 8. 06:28 AM - heavy wing (BobbyPaulk@comcast.net) 9. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (ernie) 10. 07:39 AM - Re: LAA Testing (dougsire) 11. 07:42 AM - Re: Heavy left wing (John Goodings) 12. 07:44 AM - Re: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Paul Mulwitz) 13. 08:09 AM - Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's (Gig Giacona) 14. 09:36 AM - LAA Testing (roger lambert) 15. 10:05 AM - Re: LAA Testing (Rick Lindstrom) 16. 10:29 AM - Re: heavy wing (PatrickW) 17. 10:42 AM - Re: heavy wing (Scotsman) 18. 10:59 AM - Re: heavy wing (PatrickW) 19. 11:05 AM - What Did You Do Today (Bill Pagan) 20. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: heavy wing (jaybannist@cs.com) 21. 11:55 AM - Re: What Did You Do Today (wade jones) 22. 12:18 PM - Re: What Did You Do Today (Frank Roskind) 23. 12:19 PM - Nitrided Crank () 24. 12:23 PM - Re: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount withDynon (Phil Maxson) 25. 01:08 PM - Re: What Did You Do Today (Bill Pagan) 26. 01:56 PM - Re: What Did You Do Today (Bill Naumuk) 27. 05:19 PM - Picture format request (leinad) 28. 05:25 PM - 601 xl wing questions (leinad) 29. 05:27 PM - Re: Nitrided Crank (leinad) 30. 05:55 PM - Re: Nitrided Crank (Lawrence Webber) 31. 06:05 PM - Re: What Did You Do Today (Lawrence Webber) 32. 07:08 PM - Re: Nitrided Crank (PatrickW) 33. 07:09 PM - Re: Picture format request (Jay Maynard) 34. 07:14 PM - Re: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon (Ron Lendon) 35. 07:43 PM - Re: 601 xl wing questions (Ron Lendon) 36. 07:45 PM - Re: Picture format request (Carlos Sa) 37. 07:59 PM - Re: 601 xl wing questions (Bryan Martin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:59 AM PST US From: Bob Collins Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: LAA Testing Bob, I would then assume that if your wife is sitting next to you, then you and her are not flying. Please remember that _any_ (non-inverted) turn causes a g-force greater than one. Bob Collins Sunnyvale CA USA MaxNr@aol.com wrote: > Don't worry about me pulling all those Gs. My wife holds me down to 2 > G. If she is sitting next to me it is further reduced to one G. > > Bob Dingley > CH601XL plans 6-6791 > (Holding at the wings) Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:19 AM PST US From: LINLARMAYES@aol.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's I am not a Zenith builder, or flyer. Never have been, never will, But it is fun to read the ranting, keep it up children. Larry In a message dated 7/21/2009 8:29:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, skyriderekm@yahoo.com writes: --> Zenith-List message posted by: "skyriderekm" I personally think this entire group is more funny and entertaining than the WWF on Monday night! Will ALL of you just get a GRIP and get on with building please???! Thank you!! (Stepping off my soap box now) DO NOT ARCHIVE! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254239#254239 **************Dell Deals: Treat yourself to a sweet deal on popular laptops! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:55 AM PST US From: "Ken Arnold" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's Hey Larry, Did you ever hear of "an exchange of ignorance?" Welcome to the forum. Regards, Ken do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: LINLARMAYES@aol.com To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:15 AM Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's I am not a Zenith builder, or flyer. Never have been, never will, But it is fun to read the ranting, keep it up children. Larry In a message dated 7/21/2009 8:29:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, skyriderekm@yahoo.com writes: I personally think this entire group is more funny and entertaining than the WWF on Monday night! Will ALL of you just get a GRIP and get on with building please???! Thank you!! (Stepping off my soap box now) DO NOT ARCHIVE! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254239#254239===== ================ ======================= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ======================= - List Contribution Web Site sp; ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- =========== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:42 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: LAA Testing From: roger lambert In a recent posting: Hi Roger. " I stopped trying when you set your mind on theories that were not supported by NTSB findings. " Those findings by the NTSB were that there was no evidence of oscillatory damage or metal fatigue. All damage was consistent with overstress. Please explain how these new modifications would have prevented any of the accidents in the reports you cited. I did attend the last two Zenith events at Sebring and Sun and Fun. The g figures were supplied by Zenith who particiapted in the NTSB study and had actual engineering studies done to determine the number of g's necessary to do the damage done in the accidents. " I forwarded to you, part of one report that the NTSB said that while established in cruise for ten minutes after t.o., the front hor. stabilizer brackets first failed downward, causing a 200 ft climb, then the h.s. popped up causing a severe nose tuck that destroyed the ship." You favored pilot error. This could have been caused because an inspection point (cracking, after 100 to 300 hours in svc.) in this area was first reported by CH in the Zenair Association Newsletters. See ZN 150 (Sept-Oct, 2005) pg.2 for details. Then another pilot reported in ZN 155 (July-Aug, 2006) pg. 8 finding these cracks on his bird. I don't know. What do you think? I wasn't there. Don't worry about me pulling all those Gs. My wife holds me down to 2 G. If she is sitting next to me it is further reduced to one G. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon From: "Gig Giacona" Doug.Norman(at)sportaviat wrote: > Gig, > > Do you know anyone who's lived with the Dynon AoA for any period of time, > and their opinion of its usefulness? If not, you might consider asking Frank > Derfler. He's had one on his Zodiac for three or four years. That might help > you decide the level of pain you want to inflict on yourself. > > Doug N. > > -- Is that a hint of its lack of usefulness? Got an email address for him or does he read/post here? The name doesn't ring a bell. The only reason I'd add one is because I don't have a stall warning buzzer. It's not like I've flown any planes that had a AOA before and have flown many an hour with out one. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254293#254293 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:45 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's From: "Gig Giacona" LINLARMAYES(at)aol.com wrote: > I am not a Zenith builder, or flyer. Never have been, never will, But it is fun to read the ranting, keep it up children. > Larry > You mind if I ask then why you subscribe? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254295#254295 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:55 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: LAA Testing From: roger lambert To complete my earlier post: In a recent posting: Hi Roger. " I stopped trying when you set your mind on theories that were not supported by NTSB findings. " Those findings by the NTSB were that there was *no evidence of oscillatory damage or metal fatigue. All damage was consistent with overstress*. Please explain how these new modifications would have prevented any of the accidents in the reports you cited. I did attend the last two Zenith events at Sebring and Sun and Fun. The g figures were supplied by Zenith who participated in the NTSB study and had actual engineering studies done to determine the number of g's necessary to do the damage done in the accident. " I forwarded to you, part of one report that the NTSB said that while established in cruise for ten minutes after t.o., the front hor. stabilizer brackets first failed downward, causing a 200 ft climb, then the h.s. popped up causing a severe nose tuck that destroyed the ship." Please explain how the modifications being tested would have prevented this accident. Please explain how an airplane flying in *leve*l flight causes both horizontal stabilizer attachments to break simultaneously and the stabilizer then fails downward. Please explain how the airplane, while in level flight, loses an aileron that circles over the airplane to strike the newly failed horizontal stabilizer on the opposite side of the airplane? "Don't worry about me pulling all those Gs. My wife holds me down to 2 G. If she is sitting next to me it is further reduced to one G." I'm sure you realize that you experience 1 g while just standing(sitting in your case) on the earth. Once again, I just wish the LAA testing actually would have gone toward determining the cause of actual accidents, not just creating a false sense of security through a faulty test regimen. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:01 AM PST US From: BobbyPaulk@comcast.net Subject: Zenith-List: heavy wing List, guys with the heavy wings. have you checked the Wash in / out of the wings. it should be no more than 10MM. ( about 3/8" ) mine was out about 1 1/2" and i know of at least 2 more A/C that were out that much or more. i had to shave off the rivet heads and drill a new skin to fit. this was one wing only. the other was O.K. just a thought. DO NOT ARCHIVE. bobby N131BP ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's From: ernie Never have never will? There has got to be better ways to spend your internet time. do not archive On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:15 AM, wrote: > I am not a Zenith builder, or flyer. Never have been, never will, But it is > fun to read the ranting, keep it up children. > Larry > > In a message dated 7/21/2009 8:29:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > skyriderekm@yahoo.com writes: > > > I personally think this entire group is more funny and entertaining than the > WWF on Monday night! > > Will ALL of you just get a GRIP and get on with building please???! > > Thank you!! > > (Stepping off my soap box now) > > DO NOT ARCHIVE! > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254239#254239============================================== > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =============================================== > - List Contribution Web Site sp; > ================================================== > > > ________________________________ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:24 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: LAA Testing From: "dougsire" Roger, Do you have a copy of the NTSB Materials Laboratory Report 07-095 dated 9/19/07 regarding the Yuba City crash? One can't hope to understand what might have happened without really digesting this. -------- Doug Sire 601XL Do Not Archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254310#254310 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:05 AM PST US From: John Goodings Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Heavy left wing We have a 601HD with landing/taxi lights near each wingtip and red/green nav lights on each wingtip. We have only a 15 gallon header tank, not wing tanks. Initially, the aircraft had a slight left-wing tendency. I fixed it by adding a ground-adjustable trim tab to the trailing edge of the right aileron (about 150 x 50 mm, angled down about 15 degrees, but variable). The aircraft then flew hands off. I expected to change the trim tab setting depending on passenger present or not. No! - we have never changed the setting. One flies the aircraft with right wrist sitting in the Y of the stick. Maybe one uses a little more lateral force when a passenger is not present, but it isn't a conscious thing. John and Peter Goodings, C-FGPJ, CH601HD with R912S, Carp/Ottawa/Toronto ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:51 AM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's I don't understand it, but I know there is a whole new pass-time popular among the younger set. It involves fooling people on the Internet. Perhaps it is about making yourself look like something you aren't. Perhaps it is just about getting strangers mad. Who knows, with all the obese people around these days maybe it is just a way to establish an identity as something other than a fat kid. You just can't tell much about a person on email unless they tell you. I don't see why the Zenith builder's list should be immune from these irritating people. Paul do not archive At 07:20 AM 7/22/2009, you wrote: >Never have never will? There has got to be better ways to spend your >internet time. >do not archive > >On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:15 AM, wrote: > > I am not a Zenith builder, or flyer. Never have been, never will, But it is > > fun to read the ranting, keep it up children. > > Larry ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:57 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: New Fade In Police Line up Photo's From: "Gig Giacona" Well since the guy seems to have posted exactly twice, one response in a thread on the sale of a 701 project and then in this thread, if he is a troll he is a very bad one. -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254315#254315 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:19 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: LAA Testing From: roger lambert "Roger, Do you have a copy of the NTSB Materials Laboratory Report 07-095 dated 9/19/07 regarding the Yuba City crash? *One can't hope to understand what might have happened without really digesting this." * -------- No, I don't have a copy of the NTSB metallurgy report. All I have is the full narrative, which I believe must be based in part on that report. Please post that part of the report where the cause of the accident is stated. Not the result, but the cause. I don't want to understand what *might* have been the cause . We have all heard endless speculation. I want to know what the cause was within reasonable engineering probability and certainty. Unless one has the cause of an accident within some reasonable degree of engineering probability, then any changes to the airframe are being based on guesswork. Its analogous to taking your car to the shop- the mechanic only listens to your description of the problem and making no investigation himself, changes a part. He then sends you on your way to be a tester for his actions in parts replacement. If it works, fine: if it doesn't you're the one alongside the road. You won't know until its too late. The same thing is being done to this airframe. Thinking that making these modifications is the cure only puts you in the spot of the car owner. Hopefully, the pilots are *now* aware of the V speeds, sensitive elevator and cable tension characteristics of this airplane and will fly the airplane accordingly, making the modifications only redundant. The only thing we know is that these modifications will get the LAA of Zenith's back and put the airplanes back in the air. The true effect of the modifications is unknown because the LAA refused to do before and after testing. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:16 AM PST US From: Rick Lindstrom Subject: Re: Zenith-List: LAA Testing Well put, Roger. Thanks. Rick Lindstrom ZenVair N42KP do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: roger lambert >Sent: Jul 22, 2009 12:35 PM >To: zenith-list@matronics.com >Subject: Zenith-List: LAA Testing > >"Roger, > >Do you have a copy of the NTSB Materials Laboratory Report 07-095 dated >9/19/07 >regarding the Yuba City crash? *One can't hope to understand what might >have >happened without really digesting this." >* >-------- > No, I don't have a copy of the NTSB metallurgy report. All I have is the >full narrative, which I believe must be based in part on that report. >Please post that part of the report where the cause of the accident is >stated. Not the result, but the cause. > > >I don't want to understand what *might* have been the cause . We have all >heard endless speculation. I want to know what the cause was within >reasonable engineering probability and certainty. Unless one has the cause >of an accident within some reasonable degree of engineering probability, >then any changes to the airframe are being based on guesswork. Its analogous >to taking your car to the shop- the mechanic only listens to your >description of the problem and making no investigation himself, changes a >part. He then sends you on your way to be a tester for his actions in parts >replacement. If it works, fine: if it doesn't you're the one alongside the >road. You won't know until its too late. The same thing is being done to >this airframe. Thinking that making these modifications is the cure only >puts you in the spot of the car owner. Hopefully, the pilots are *now* aware >of the V speeds, sensitive elevator and cable tension characteristics of >this airplane and will fly the airplane accordingly, making the >modifications only redundant. The only thing we know is that these >modifications will get the LAA of Zenith's back and put the airplanes back >in the air. The true effect of the modifications is unknown because the LAA >refused to do before and after testing. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:08 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: heavy wing From: "PatrickW" Excellent advice, and a great example of the nuggets of information that this forum is good for. Knowing that there have been 601XL's that were still controllable with at least 1.5" of difference in the washout is valuable for those of us who are approaching First Flight. - Pat -------- Patrick XL/650/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254340#254340 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:12 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: heavy wing From: "Scotsman" Excuse the ignorance what is wash out? -------- Cell +27 83 675 0815 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254344#254344 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:18 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: heavy wing From: "PatrickW" Scotsman wrote: > what is wash out? Twist that is built into the wing to reduce the angle of attack the further out from the root you go. It's so the ailerons maintain effectiveness as you approach a stall. Can read about it here: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washout_(aviation)" - Pat -------- Patrick XL/650/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254349#254349 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:38 AM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today Lets not forget in all the arguing, fingerpointing and bickering that we ar e supposed to be building airplanes. - I pretty much finished up the canopy today.- No cracks - :o) Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES) =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:11:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Re: heavy wing From: jaybannist@cs.com James, Wash out is used to describe a deliberatly twisted wing; such that the tip is at a lower angle of attack than the root.? This delays the stalling of the tip of the wing to retain aileron effectiveness after the root has stalled. In some production airplanes, the whole wing has this twist.? In the Zodiac, only the aileron is twisted during construction to achieve this wash out. Jay Bannister -----Original Message----- From: Scotsman Sent: Wed, Jul 22, 2009 12:41 pm Subject: Zenith-List: Re: heavy wing Excuse the ignorance what is wash out? -------- Cell +27 83 675 0815 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254344#254344 ________________________________________________________________________ Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:27 AM PST US From: "wade jones" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today Good looking workmanship Bill . Wade Jones South East Texas ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Pagan To: Zenith List Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today Lets not forget in all the arguing, fingerpointing and bickering that we are supposed to be building airplanes. I pretty much finished up the canopy today. No cracks - :o) Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:57 PM PST US From: Frank Roskind Subject: RE: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today This may sound like a dumb qustion=2C but how are you going to protect the canopy from scratches as you do the remaining work? It really looks too sh iny to get it messed up now. From: pdn8r@yahoo.com Subject: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today Lets not forget in all the arguing=2C fingerpointing and bickering that we are supposed to be building airplanes. I pretty much finished up the canopy today. No cracks - :o) Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES) _________________________________________________________________ Bing=99 brings you maps=2C menus=2C and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&cre a=TXT_MLOGEN_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:19:43 PM PST US From: Subject: Zenith-List: Nitrided Crank At long last, I received my nitrided crank back from Nitron. I sent it UPS on May 2, he got it on May 6, and I got it back July 20, 11 weeks later. Pradom is a nice guy to talk to, and very helpful, but if you're going to send him your crank, plan for a whole lot of lead time. BTW, I now have a wooden crate available for the price of shipping. Weighs 11 pounds, 38.5 with crank in it. The check to Nitron was $286 for nitriding and return, and the price out was $38 from KCMO to Lowell Mass. Now off to Oshkosh to seek wisdom from Corvair-Sensei. Paul R 601XL/Corvair ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:23:26 PM PST US From: "Phil Maxson " Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount withDynon I have been flying the Dynon AOA with the Dynon pitot since last year. I replaced the Zenith pitot with the standard mounting kit available at Aircraft Spruce. I had to cut the down-tube shorter, since it hangs down pretty far, but it seems to work well. I simply enlarged the hole in the skin I had for the Zenith pitot, but no big deal. I think the AOA info is useful, but not crucial. I often refer to it when I'm slow and heavy. It's nice to hear the little alarm go off in a full stall landing. Phil Maxson 601XL/Corvair ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:08:40 PM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: RE: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today Don't have much left to do on the inside or the outside.=C2- Ready to sta rt on the engine when the $ is right.=C2- most everything else is done. L eft the wings open for any mods that may be coming.=C2- I cover it with a soft flannel sheet and moving pad over that.=C2- Don't use the scratch w ord on me!! :o) Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES) --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Frank Roskind wrote: From: Frank Roskind Subject: RE: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today #yiv1785965568 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1785965568 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} This may sound like a dumb qustion, but how are you going to protect the ca nopy from scratches as you do the remaining work?=C2- It really looks too shiny to get it messed up now. =C2- From: pdn8r@yahoo.com Subject: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today Lets not forget in all the arguing, fingerpointing and bickering that we ar e supposed to be building airplanes. =C2- I pretty much finished up the canopy today.=C2- No cracks - :o) Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES) Bing=84=A2 brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. T ry it now. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:18 PM PST US From: "Bill Naumuk" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today Bill- Good work. If you have some free time I might let you work on mine. (Remember Tom Sawyer?) Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Pagan To: zenith-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: RE: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today Don't have much left to do on the inside or the outside. Ready to start on the engine when the $ is right. most everything else is done. Left the wings open for any mods that may be coming. I cover it with a soft flannel sheet and moving pad over that. Don't use the scratch word on me!! :o) Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES) --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Frank Roskind wrote: From: Frank Roskind Subject: RE: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today To: zenith-list@matronics.com Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 3:16 PM This may sound like a dumb qustion, but how are you going to protect the canopy from scratches as you do the remaining work? It really looks too shiny to get it messed up now. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 10:57:04 -0700 From: pdn8r@yahoo.com Subject: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today To: zenith-list@matronics.com Lets not forget in all the arguing, fingerpointing and bickering that we are supposed to be building airplanes. I pretty much finished up the canopy today. No cracks - :o) Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Bing=84=A2 brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. arget=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:07 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Picture format request From: "leinad" This is just a request that those of you posting pictures size them to something like 800 x 600 pixels or smaller before posting them. Some of us use a browser to read the list on line, and these huge photos size all future posts the width of the photo until you log off and back on. The photos themselves are hard to enjoy because you have to scroll back and forth to see (part of) them, plus some of us have limited bandwidth, so each large photo uses a chunk of our quota. Just a request. Dan Dempsey 601xl/corvair scratch builder -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254416#254416 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:27 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: 601 xl wing questions From: "leinad" I've seen some posts in the past that talked about these issues, but since I wasn't building my wing at the time I didn't pay great attention. I have just a few questions about XL wing construction. My plans are dated 2003 and wondering what if any construction updates I may be missing. I remember some talk about stiffeners to prevent oil canning. Is this standard practice now? The hole in the rear channel for aileron push tube, does this get reinforced in someway? Can someone explain why the design for the flap is taller than the rear channel? Is it still done that way? Any other improvements that I should be aware of? Dan Dempsey 601xl/corvair plans builder -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254419#254419 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:27:44 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Nitrided Crank From: "leinad" Paul, That's great news. Now on with the build? Are you going with a 5th bearing? Dan -------- Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254420#254420 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:38 PM PST US From: Lawrence Webber Subject: RE: Zenith-List: Nitrided Crank Hey Paul i saw your crank being processed in the nitriding machine during my last visit to pick up a crank i promised to tom brady of west vir ginia thats an amazing process. good luck with it !!!!! worked on the hub location to set up dims to install and measure front cow ling will finish when i return from the bigOSH Larry Webber 601xl From: paulrod36@msn.com Subject: Zenith-List: Nitrided Crank At long last=2C I received my nitrided crank back from Nitron. I sent it UP S on May 2=2C he got it on May 6=2C and I got it back July 20=2C 11 weeks later. Pradom is a nice guy to talk to=2C and very helpful=2C but if you're going to send him your crank=2C plan for a whole lot of lead time. BTW=2C I now have a wooden crate available for the price of shipping. Weighs 11 p ounds=2C 38.5 with crank in it. The check to Nitron was $286 for nitriding and return=2C and the price out was $38 from KCMO to Lowell Mass. Now off to Oshkosh to seek wisdom from Corvair-Sensei. Paul R 601XL/Corvair _________________________________________________________________ NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:18 PM PST US From: Lawrence Webber Subject: RE: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today Bill When i finished my cowl i then removedit and stored it far from my wor k area Larry From: pdn8r@yahoo.com Subject: Zenith-List: What Did You Do Today Lets not forget in all the arguing=2C fingerpointing and bickering that we are supposed to be building airplanes. I pretty much finished up the canopy today. No cracks - :o) Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 601XL QBK/Corvair/N565BW (RES) _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 SkyDrive=99: Store=2C access=2C and share your photos. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072 009 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:48 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Nitrided Crank From: "PatrickW" paulrod36(at)msn.com wrote: > 11 weeks later. Pradom is a nice guy to talk to, and very helpful, but if you're going to send him your crank, plan for a whole lot of lead time. For what it's worth, 11 weeks is extremely quick turnaround. I'm sure a lot of guys wish all the engine parts they ordered came that fast... - Pat -------- Patrick XL/650/Corvair N63PZ (reserved) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254434#254434 ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:51 PM PST US From: Jay Maynard Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Picture format request On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 05:18:23PM -0700, leinad wrote: > This is just a request that those of you posting pictures size them to > something like 800 x 600 pixels or smaller before posting them. Some of > us use a browser to read the list on line, and these huge photos size all > future posts the width of the photo until you log off and back on. The > photos themselves are hard to enjoy because you have to scroll back and > forth to see (part of) them, plus some of us have limited bandwidth, so > each large photo uses a chunk of our quota. I'll second that, and note that Matronics' email server also has a problem that causes it to re-send email if the destination server takes too long to process it - where "too long" is considerably shorter that the 5 minutes called for in the Internet email standards. If the message is bigger than 200K or so, including the size of all attachments, it's too big. Please resize your pictures. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!) AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:50 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: Question for anyone using GretzAero's Pitot mount with Dynon From: "Ron Lendon" Gig, I made up my own, you can see how here: http://mykitlog.com/users/display_log.php?user=rlendon&project=113&category=0&log=26951&row=521 If you make your own you can make the hole pattern whatever you want/need it to be. The fabrication isn't that difficult, the welding is the tricky part. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Corvair Engine Prints: http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254436#254436 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:52 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601 xl wing questions From: "Ron Lendon" Dan, My prints are dated 2005 for the most part. I have kept them updated by using the "ZODIAC XL Drawings Updates" area of the builders site. I made no reinforcement on the rear spar hole. The flap does stand about 3mm above the wing skin. My wing skins, flap skin, and leading edge skin are .025" with no stiffeners. -------- Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-) http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon Corvair Engine Prints: http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=254439#254439 ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Picture format request From: Carlos Sa Dan, a little trick that works with most browsers: When the picture is too large to fit on your screen, right click and select "view image". The current page being displaied will be replaced by that picture alone and it will be resized to fit the window. CH601-HD, plans Centre wing in progress 2009/7/22 leinad > > This is just a request that those of you posting pictures size them to > something like 800 x 600 pixels or smaller before posting them. Some of us > use a browser to read the list on line, and these huge photos size all > future posts the width of the photo until you log off and back on. The > photos themselves are hard to enjoy because you have to scroll back and > forth to see (part of) them, plus some of us have limited bandwidth, so each > large photo uses a chunk of our quota. > Just a request. > Dan Dempsey > 601xl/corvair scratch builder > > -------- > Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:42 PM PST US From: Bryan Martin Subject: Re: Zenith-List: 601 xl wing questions The flap leading edge is taller than the rear channel to prevent the air flow from separating at that point. This reduces drag slightly in the clean configuration. As far as I know, it is still done this way. On Jul 22, 2009, at 8:24 PM, leinad wrote: > > I've seen some posts in the past that talked about these issues, but > since I wasn't building my wing at the time I didn't pay great > attention. I have just a few questions about XL wing construction. > My plans are dated 2003 and wondering what if any construction > updates I may be missing. > I remember some talk about stiffeners to prevent oil canning. Is > this standard practice now? > The hole in the rear channel for aileron push tube, does this get > reinforced in someway? > Can someone explain why the design for the flap is taller than the > rear channel? Is it still done that way? > Any other improvements that I should be aware of? > Dan Dempsey > 601xl/corvair plans builder > -- Bryan Martin N61BM, CH 601 XL, RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive. do not archive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.