---------------------------------------------------------- Zenith-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/31/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:36 AM - Re: priming with zinc chromate? And order of build? (Jim Belcher) 2. 06:55 AM - Re: priming with zinc chromate? And order of build? (Gig Giacona) 3. 08:10 AM - Re: priming with zinc chromate? And order of build? (Jim McBurney) 4. 08:49 AM - Another 601XL takes to the air (aprazer) 5. 09:13 AM - Re: Another 601XL takes to the air (Larry Winger) 6. 09:39 AM - Another 601XL takes to the air (Beckman, Rick) 7. 09:43 AM - Re: Another 601XL takes to the air (Gary Ray) 8. 09:52 AM - Re: Another 601XL takes to the air (Bill Pagan) 9. 11:39 AM - Re: EAA videos (Terry Phillips) 10. 03:49 PM - Re: priming with zinc chromate? And order of build? (mosquito56) 11. 04:52 PM - Re: Another 601XL takes to the air (Davcoberly@wmconnect.com) 12. 08:53 PM - Fw: [ZBAG] OSH Forum (T. Graziano) 13. 09:37 PM - Re: Fw: [ZBAG] OSH Forum (Paul Mulwitz) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:28 AM PST US From: Jim Belcher Subject: Re: Zenith-List: priming with zinc chromate? And order of build? On Thursday 30 July 2009 17:43, Don Merritt wrote: > Long time reader, rare contributor to discussions as I don't know anything. > > I seem to remember reading a post about an inspector who said zinc > chromatic is neither desirable nor required. I was wondering what the > current concensis is on this subject. > Zinc chromate is one of many acceptable primers. There are places where some sort of primer is required. Normally, on certificated aircraft, the FAA (and thus the inspector) defer to whatever the manufacturer recommended. Sometimes that's zinc chromate; sometimes something else. One could argue that some of the newer primers are better (and hence, maybe more desirable). But zinc chromate works: you can sometimes see aircraft from WWII which still have the zinc chromate and still have the metal underneath intact. For whatever it's worth, that's what I'm using on my 601XL between mating surfaces. Since this is a non-certrificated aircraft, I could use whatever I wanted to, but zinc chromate has a good track record with me. I'm not saying that all the other primers are bad; just that I've never had any problems with this one. ============================================ Do not archive. ============================================ Jim B Belcher BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science A&P/IA Retired aerospace technical manager ============================================ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:42 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: priming with zinc chromate? And order of build? From: "Gig Giacona" ZC was the primer of choice when I started building and what I used everywhere metal meets metal in the tail and wings and firewall. I also used it in the rear part of the fuselage where inspection is harder. I didn't use it quite as much in the forward part of the firewall. because inspection won't be as much of an issue. Keep in mind that 6061-T6 has pretty good anti-corrosion properties all by itself and I noticed you are from Laredo. It's pretty dry there isn't it? -------- W.R. "Gig" Giacona 601XL Under Construction See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255356#255356 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:38 AM PST US From: Jim McBurney Subject: Re: Zenith-List: priming with zinc chromate? And order of build? Hi, Don (and List), Re: order of build, a suggestion: If you haven't closed up your plane yet, consider electrical wiring. Running conduit (Van's nylon corrugated conduit P/N DUCT NT5/8-50) through hard-to-reach places while they're still accessible is MUCH easier than trying to fish conduit or wire bundles after riveting. (Don't ask me how I know!!!) It's light, flexible, and can be secured using plastic conduit straps from Lowe's Electrical Aviation Department. Pull a light string through each conduit run with a vacuum cleaner, and use it to pull the wires through later. Blue skies and tailwinds to all Jim CH-801 DeltaHawk diesel 90% done 120% left ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:49:45 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Another 601XL takes to the air From: "aprazer" Well, I did it! I flew N990MK on its maiden voyage yesterday and the wings didn't fall off! It took a while, but I finally got my head screwed on correctly. With all the bantering back and forth about the 601XL being safe realey took a toll on me! It took so long that the plane had to be annual-ed (to be in compliance) before its first flight! Well, it flew beautifully! A few minor adjustments and it is back into the wild blue yonder. For those who have the same problem that I did and wish to talk about it, contact me off thread. I'm jacked! What more can I say? Mack 601XL/Jab 3300 -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255371#255371 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010009_325.jpg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another 601XL takes to the air From: Larry Winger Way to go! I'm glad you crossed the line and got to enjoy the thrill of flight in your own creation. Larry Winger 650/Corvair Canopy almost done Tustin, CA On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 8:49 AM, aprazer wrote: > > Well, I did it! > > I flew N990MK on its maiden voyage yesterday and the wings didn't fall off! > > It took a while, but I finally got my head screwed on correctly. > > With all the bantering back and forth about the 601XL being safe realey > took a toll on me! > > It took so long that the plane had to be annual-ed (to be in compliance) > before its first flight! > > Well, it flew beautifully! A few minor adjustments and it is back into the > wild blue yonder. > > For those who have the same problem that I did and wish to talk about it, > contact me off thread. > > I'm jacked! What more can I say? > > Mack > 601XL/Jab 3300 > > -------- > The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255371#255371 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010009_325.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:39:40 AM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Another 601XL takes to the air From: "Beckman, Rick" Congratulations!! Send pictures!! Rick Well, I did it! I flew N990MK on its maiden voyage yesterday and the wings didn't fall off! It took a while, but I finally got my head screwed on correctly. With all the bantering back and forth about the 601XL being safe realey took a toll on me! It took so long that the plane had to be annual-ed (to be in compliance) before its first flight! Well, it flew beautifully! A few minor adjustments and it is back into the wild blue yonder. For those who have the same problem that I did and wish to talk about it, contact me off thread. I'm jacked! What more can I say? Mack 601XL/Jab 3300 -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:14 AM PST US From: "Gary Ray" Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another 601XL takes to the air Mack Congratulations. You have crossed over. An entirely new adventure begins. Keep up with the inspections and maintain a good log for any problems or changes you make. Plan your flight tests during the first 40 hrs, stick to the plan and record the results. Be sure you set personal limits for weather, and condition of your aircraft. Don't fly it unless every thing is the way you want it. Good Luck Gary Ray davgray@sbcglobal.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "aprazer" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 11:49 AM Subject: Zenith-List: Another 601XL takes to the air > > Well, I did it! > > I flew N990MK on its maiden voyage yesterday and the wings didn't fall off! > > It took a while, but I finally got my head screwed on correctly. > > With all the bantering back and forth about the 601XL being safe realey took a toll on me! > > It took so long that the plane had to be annual-ed (to be in compliance) before its first flight! > > Well, it flew beautifully! A few minor adjustments and it is back into the wild blue yonder. > > For those who have the same problem that I did and wish to talk about it, contact me off thread. > > I'm jacked! What more can I say? > > Mack > 601XL/Jab 3300 > > -------- > The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255371#255371 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010009_325.jpg > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:52:55 AM PST US From: Bill Pagan Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another 601XL takes to the air Oh! You have slipped the surly bonds of earth And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings; Congratulations Mack! - Do Not Archive Bill Pagan EAA Tech Counselor #4395 601XL/Corvair/Canopy Done! RV-8A, Built, Flown, Sold --- On Fri, 7/31/09, aprazer wrote: From: aprazer Subject: Zenith-List: Another 601XL takes to the air Well, I did it! I flew N990MK on its maiden voyage yesterday and the wings didn't fall off! It took a while, but I finally got my head screwed on correctly. With all the bantering back and forth about the 601XL being safe realey too k a toll on me! It took so long that the plane had to be annual-ed (to be in compliance) be fore its first flight! Well, it flew beautifully! A few minor adjustments and it is back into the wild blue yonder. For those who have the same problem that I did and wish to talk about it, c ontact me off thread. I'm jacked! What more can I say? Mack 601XL/Jab 3300 -------- The poh-oh-unemployed farm boy from Idaho Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255371#255371 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1010009_325.jpg le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:31 AM PST US From: Terry Phillips Subject: Re: Zenith-List: EAA videos Good call, Jim I fired up my WM Recorder shareware app and it started with the 1st tutorial and cycled through the list. FLV Player will play the flash video, so that's good enough for me. Thanks Terry do not archive At 03:44 PM 7/28/2009 -0500, you wrote: >On Tuesday 28 July 2009 14:19, Carlos Sa wrote: > > Terry, I don't know if it is possible to just download it. > > The videos are played with Adobe Flash Player, and the menus don't show any > > option to save the video. > > I also checked the EAA store, but I did not find those videos there. > > I would suggest writing to the webmaster ( webmaster@eaa.org ) or calling > > 800-564-6322. > >There are programs which will capture flash video from the web site. An >example is: http://www.web-video-downloader.com/ > >There are plenty of others; it just depeneds on which you personally like. > >There are other programs which will convert the flash video to something a >little more conventional, like mpeg2. Or, if you don't object to flash, you >can save it that way and play it on your computer. Terry Phillips ZBAGer ttp44~at~rkymtn.net Corvallis MT 601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons are done; waiting on the wings http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:33 PM PST US Subject: Zenith-List: Re: priming with zinc chromate? And order of build? From: "mosquito56" Glad to hear that zc is still the way to go. Next question is , Can I put the engine on and run it with the airplane in clecoes? -------- Don Merritt- Laredo, Tx Apologies if I seem antagonistic. I believe in the freeflowing ideas and discussions between individuals for assistance in this thing we call life. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=255435#255435 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:50 PM PST US From: Davcoberly@wmconnect.com Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Another 601XL takes to the air Way to Go Mack!! I just put on my 6+ hour on mine today since I got the first flight under my belt. I still need plenty of work on my landings! I sure wish the FAA would let a person get some instruction in your own plane before the 40 hrs. Fly Safe! David Coberly 601XL / Corvair ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:47 PM PST US From: "T. Graziano" Subject: Zenith-List: Fw: [ZBAG] OSH Forum Zodiac CH 601 XL / CH 650 update - July 27, 2009 Regarding flutter: Completed Ground Vibration Tests (GVT) to typical industry standards have revealed no tendency for the aircraft to flutter at any point within the approved flight envelope, even when the aircraft is not properly rigged (over-weight, improper loading, and looser control cables). Owners who nevertheless wish to install aileron counterweights will soon be able to do so as the German consulting team is working on a design. The UK CAA is also working on a design, which was recently flight tested. We do not know the outcome of the test at this time. Regarding load limits: Static tests have confirmed that the airframe meets the max. allowable +4/-2 G limit loads at 1,320 pounds with zero permanent deformation in the airframe. Reports from DAR are forthcoming. Regarding aircraft checklists: The seven points covered in the Chris Heintz letter of July 7, 2009 should be added to all pre-flight checklists for the 601/650. Chris also recommends that the "condition inspection checklist" (July 2009 edition) be used as part of the mandated annual inspections, but also for general condition verifications after unusual events (i.e. hard landings) or unusual flight conditions (flight through extreme turbulence), or before the first flight. Note that engine, avionics and other non airframe items are not on this checklist. Regarding Aircraft Handling (stick forces/lower stall speeds): Although Chris Heintz has repeatedly reminded pilots to get properly checked out prior to taking the controls of a new aircraft, like the Zodiac. Some pilots still report being surprised by the light stick forces of their 601/650. To increase stick loads and minimize the chance of pilots over-controlling the aircraft, Chris has finished the design of a simple spring system that is attached to an elevator control cable. Once installed, elevator and aileron forces are similar and there is less sensitivity in pitch control. Chris wants to do more flight testing before releasing the drawings. Addressing Airspeed and ASI Markings: With 601/650 models manufactured by various companies around the world and "Experimental" versions completed by hundreds of individual builders, it is not surprising that a range of airspeed limits and airspeed indicator markings exist for the design. While this is not inherently incorrect (different MTOW and different engines justify this - and phase 1 flight testing should confirm it), it can nevertheless be confusing. As a general all-around and conservative alternative, Chris Heintz has issued an updated set of airspeeds and ASI markings for the standard CH 601 XL, as published in the Zodiac CH 601 XL S-LSA Pilot Operating Handbook (July 2009). These speeds should be included in every Pilot Operating Handbook (POH) and should be reflected on the traditional white, green and yellow arcs of the ASI - once calibrated. Variances should only be considered after review and testing by competent individuals. A copy of the S-LSA POH with proper marking and limitations (updated to the Chris Heintz letter of July 7th, 2009) can be downloaded from the AMD web site at: POH: http://www.newplane.com/amd_downloads/MASTER_AMD_POH_601_650_july_8_2009_ at_1255lbs.pdf Service Manual: http://www.newplane.com/amd_downloads/Maintenance_Manual_601_650_Continen tal_July_2009.pdf FAA Update: In response to the NTSB letter (dated April 14, 2009) the FAA chartered a special review team to investigate the details of each NTSB recommendation. In a July 13 letter to the NTSB, FAA administrator Randolph Babbitt writes that the FAA "lacks adequate justification" to ground the CH-601XL models, per the NTSB's request. "Data indicates the CH-601XL has a safety record similar to other S-LSA and appears capable of safe flight and operations if maintained according to the manufacturer's recommendations." We will continue to update you as we get updated from Chris Heintz, who is working with the Europeans, UK and USA authorities on all this. ----- Original Message ----- From: n601ap Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:08 AM Subject: [ZBAG] OSH Forum http://api.ning.com/files/Dngz*zVf*7RejwYRRfpGWU*c*AtyKtfNEf9Zn5kqOTP3aw* 9z9WCW4Rrc6v*qCvZK6YKG70S2Zo0TqgRDlLe18aTqtbgfxAD/Zodiac20update20letter2 020july2027202009.pdf __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity a.. 4New Files Visit Your Group Give Back Yahoo! for Good Get inspired by a good cause. Y! Toolbar Get it Free! easy 1-click access to your groups. Yahoo! Groups Start a group in 3 easy steps. Connect with others. . __,_._,___ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:09 PM PST US From: Paul Mulwitz Subject: Re: Zenith-List: Fw: [ZBAG] OSH Forum Hi Tony, Thank you for the forum information. I feel optimistic about the final outcome of my XL project now. Paul XL Grounded do not archive At 08:51 PM 7/31/2009, you wrote: >Zodiac CH 601 XL / CH 650 update ' July 27, 2009 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message zenith-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Zenith-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/zenith-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/zenith-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.