Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:56 AM - Re: Signed off to Solo the Sabrina Mark 1 !!! (Sabrina)
2. 09:43 AM - Re: Signed off to Solo the Sabrina Mark 1 !!! (leinad)
3. 09:45 AM - 601 to 650....is it worth it? (crvsecretary@aol.com)
4. 10:10 AM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (Jim Belcher)
5. 10:12 AM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (PatrickW)
6. 10:38 AM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (Larry Winger)
7. 11:05 AM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (Gig Giacona)
8. 12:14 PM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (William Dominguez)
9. 01:03 PM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (Gig Giacona)
10. 01:06 PM - FAA Counsel's Letter on SP -> PP training (Gig Giacona)
11. 03:10 PM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (Paul Mulwitz)
12. 03:24 PM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (LarryMcFarland)
13. 04:54 PM - Re: Another 601XL takes to the air (leinad)
14. 05:00 PM - Re: First Condition Inspection Flight (leinad)
15. 05:16 PM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (Ron Lendon)
16. 05:27 PM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (William Dominguez)
17. 05:31 PM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (William Dominguez)
18. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (Jay Maynard)
19. 09:44 PM - Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? (chuck960)
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| Subject: | Re: Signed off to Solo the Sabrina Mark 1 !!! |
Thank you all!
I am in Seattle trying to convince some people to fund that time machine of mine
:O)
I hope to see Paul's plane in Camas on Saturday evening and will be in LA Monday.
Hans/Jim, if you guys are around, it would be great to see you both in sunny
CA.
The first solo is tentatively scheduled for September 2d. That is the first day
I can convert my IL M permit into an M license and drive my bike without having
another rider within 1/4 mile of me.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256517#256517
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| Subject: | Re: Signed off to Solo the Sabrina Mark 1 !!! |
To quote a not so old saying
"You go girl!"
Dan
Sabrina wrote:
> I completed my pre-US solo training today and Jay signed me off!!!
>
>
> I will travel the country for a couple weeks and then return to Chicago.
>
>
> It will be so cool to conduct my first US solo in the airplane I built!
>
>
> Thank you Jay!
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256524#256524
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| Subject: | 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
Hello Everyone:
Like everyone else, I have been reading about the tests and trials of our beloved
homebuilt of choice and have taken note of the 650 series released by Zenith.
All of this has
resulted in a self-imposed condition of 'builders paralysis'...I've done nothing
for a very long time ! I'm about 1/2 way through the right wing with the tail
feathers complete.
After looking through the list of 601 to 650 'improvements', I just cannot see
through the advantages - or the possibilities - of incorporating these improvements
into my airplane.
The new canopy is a no-brainer and is designed to retrofit - that's a good thing.
But some changes - such as the angle of incidence - are just not possible
or practical...yes?
What does the consensus think? My thoughts are to continue building the wings
but NOT closing them up until well after recommendations are issued by Zenith,
and to order the 601 fuselage kit with the 650 canopy. My thoughts are that's
the limit of 'improvements' I can make without some serious rework of my completed
items.
Anyone care to share their thoughts?
Thank You in advance
Tracy Smith
N458XL (reserved) - Corvair powered
Naugatuck, CT
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
On Friday 07 August 2009 11:42, crvsecretary@aol.com wrote:
> Like everyone else, I have been reading about the tests and trials of our
> beloved homebuilt of choice and have taken note of the 650 series released
> by Zenith. All of this has resulted in a self-imposed condition of
> 'builders paralysis'...I've done nothing for a very long time ! I'm about
> 1/2 way through the right wing with the tail feathers complete.
I'm still chugging along. I figure this stuff will get resolved somehow or other.
As Chris Heintz pointed out, most of the accidents have been people who did
not build their planes. That suggests familiarity reduces the probability of
difficulty when flying - a rather obvious statement, but perhaps more true in
this case than in many.
> After looking through the list of 601 to 650 'improvements', I just cannot
> see through the advantages - or the possibilities - of incorporating these
> improvements into my airplane. The new canopy is a no-brainer and is
> designed to retrofit - that's a good thing. But some changes - such as the
> angle of incidence - are just not possible or practical...yes?
I cannot see any obvious merit to the 650 improvements in my application. True,
the new canopy gives more headroom, but it does so at the expense of the baggage
compartment. If I had the 650 canopy, my baggage would rub against, and no
doubt scar, the canopy. But to each his own.
> What does the consensus think? My thoughts are to continue building the
> wings but NOT closing them up until well after recommendations are issued
> by Zenith, and to order the 601 fuselage kit with the 650 canopy. My
> thoughts are that's the limit of 'improvements' I can make without some
> serious rework of my completed items.
I find myself wondering if we will in fact see any meaningful recommendations from
Zenith. That being the case, I'm sealing things as I go. This may prove to
be a mistake, but without a firmer indication of the exact problem, just adding
structure or balancing things seems to me to be grasping at straws. Zenith
may be forced to do that for political reasons, but that's solving a problem of
a different sort.
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
Biggest reason would be for perception/reputation/resale value.
You'd probably do better selling an airplane registered as a "650" than you would
one registered as an "XL", even through they are the same airplane.
Try this experiment: next time you're with a group of pilots, mention the XL.
Likely somebody in that group will chime in about wing issues. Then ask that
person what they think about the 650...
- Pat
--------
Patrick
XL/650/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256529#256529
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
>
> **
>
> Tracy,
I was working on the fuselage when the 650 became available. Because I am
6'6", making the shift to the 650 canopy was a given. I also liked the new
latch system. Because I had done everything to that point based upon the
601XL angle of incidence, I elected not to change that, but incorporated
virtually every other modification offered by the 650 (including remaking my
rudder).
>From what I have heard, the 650 baggage tunnel is a bear to make because of
the compound curves. The 650 has no such curves and is a snap to build. On
the other hand, everyone who has done both the 601XL and the 650 canopy has
told me that the 650 canopy is harder to install. Splitting the canopy adds
a whole new level of complexity, which I now completely understand. Having
said that, if you are going with the 650 canopy, I would strongly advise you
to build the 650 top rear structure that goes with it, so you don't get the
worst of both worlds (difficult 601XL baggage tunnel and difficult 650
canopy).
In reality, there aren't that many parts that distinguish the 601XL from the
650 in the areas of the rear bulkheads/rear top skin and baggage floor. In
order to avoid converting a 601XL baggage tunnel into a 650 canopy system, I
would swap out the 601XL middle and baggage back bulkheads, rear top skin
and baggage floor for the 650 counterparts, and then enjoy the benefits of a
clean 650 install. If you'd like more details on the specific items that
are different, feel free to contact me off line.
Just my 2 cents worth. Have fun, whichever way you go.
Larry Winger
650/Corvair
Canopy 99% finished
Tustin, CA
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
Keep one big thing in mind if you are thinking of making the switch.
The 601 kits both quick and slow build are grandfathered in under the old 51% list.
The 650 isn't on that list.
The good news is the FAA has backed off of their original plan which was very complex
and would be hit or miss and would have certainly effected the quick build
kits.
The bad news is the new version of the rule was just announced at OSH and really
hasn't been vetted yet.
That said if you want the changes of the 650 there is noting in the world stopping
you from calling it a 601XL.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256539#256539
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
See my comments in bold.
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/
________________________________
From: "crvsecretary@aol.com" <crvsecretary@aol.com>
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 12:42:58 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: 601 to 650....is it worth it?
Hello Everyone:
Like everyone else, I have been reading about the tests and trials of our beloved
homebuilt of choice and have taken note of the 650 series released by Zenith.
All of this has
resulted in a self-imposed condition of 'builders paralysis'...I've done nothing
for a very long time ! I'm about 1/2 way through the right wing with the tail
feathers complete.
I haven't stopped working, I believe that if a modification is provided, it would
be retro-fitable to a finished plane. Keep in mind that I'm building from plans
so my progress
is slower than kit builders.
After looking through the list of 601 to 650 'improvements', I just cannot see
through the advantages - or the possibilities - of incorporating these improvements
into my airplane.
The new canopy is a no-brainer and is designed to retrofit - that's a good thing.
But some changes - such as the angle of incidence - are just not possible
or practical...yes?
The canopy is an area where I'm also undecided so far. I like the 650 latching
mechanism and the rollover bar but like the XL canopy in almost everything else.
For a while
I have been considering putting the 601 XL canopy with the new latch and rollover
bars. Adding the new latch to the 601 XL canopy would not be a problem but
the rollover
bars is another story.
What does the consensus think? My thoughts are to continue building the wings
but NOT closing them up until well after recommendations are issued by Zenith,
That is a good idea, postpone closing the wings as much as possible, but only as
long as building continues with something else in the project.
I wouldn't stop my project waiting for a recommendation or a mod.
and to order the 601 fuselage kit with the 650 canopy. My thoughts are that's
the limit of 'improvements' I can make without some serious rework of my completed
items.
Anyone care to share their thoughts?
Thank You in advance
Tracy Smith
N458XL (reserved) - Corvair powered
Naugatuck, CT
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
What comments?
William Dominguez wrote:
> See my comments in bold.
>
> William Dominguez
> Zodiac 601XL Plans
> Miami Florida
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256550#256550
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| Subject: | FAA Counsel's Letter on SP -> PP training |
I'm posting this specifically for Jay and Sabrina. But it applies to anyone that
got or are getting their SP certificate from a CFI-SP.
>From AvWeb:
FAA: Light Sport Time Can Go Toward Private Cert. (Sometimes)
August 7, 2009
By Glenn Pew,
Contributing Editor, Video Editor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, can a student pilot apply any flight time he or she logged while training for
a sport pilot certificate toward a private pilot certificate? According to
a letter from the FAA's Office of the Chief Counsel to aviation journalist Tim
Kern, who queried the office, solo sport pilot flight time may only be credited
to solo private pilot flight time if the "specific category and class of aircraft
are met." Logging instruction time depends on the instructor's credentials.
If instruction is received from an instructor who holds only a a sport pilot
rating, that instruction may not be credited toward the issuance of a private
pilot certificate. However, if the instruction toward a sport pilot certificate
is provided by an instructor authorized to provide instruction to both sport
pilots and private pilots, that time could "be credited toward the flight
training requirements for a corresponding private pilot certificate." There are
more details...
According to the letter, "flight time obtained in a certificated aircraft prior
to the issuance of a private pilot certificate, regardless of whether that flight
time was obtained prior to, or after, the issuance of a sport pilot certificate
may be credited toward the flight time requirements for the issuance of
the private pilot certificate." Kern has posted the full text of the letter,
here. It explains in detail that a sport pilot instructor (SPI) is not qualified
to give dual for a private certificate and therefore any instruction given
by an SPI is not applicable toward the private.
FAA Letter mentioned above
http://www.121five.com/admin/Feature...P_onesheet.pdf
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256551#256551
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
Hi Tracy,
If you are anything like me, by the time the changes are released
from Zenith you will have become a real expert at drilling out
rivets. So, My recommendation is to go ahead at your own pace and
complete things as you get to them.
Paul
XL waiting for engineering changes
At 09:42 AM 8/7/2009, you wrote:
>My thoughts are to continue building the wings but NOT closing them
>up until well after recommendations are issued by Zenith,
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
Tracy,
I'd recommend you continue work on your plane and consider the canopy
with a roll bar but not in separate pieces. The rear half of the canopy
would seem
to get in the way of access and egress. The latch is neat, much simpler.
I've finally got confidence in the old system having taken time to
clearly mark a lock
position, but if I were to do over, the new latch is a more secure method
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com (140.5 hours on Stratus
Subaru and Warp Drive)
William Dominguez wrote:
> See my comments in bold.
>
> William Dominguez
> Zodiac 601XL Plans
> Miami Florida
> http://sites.google.com/site/billplane/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "crvsecretary@aol.com" <crvsecretary@aol.com>
> *To:* zenith-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Friday, August 7, 2009 12:42:58 PM
> *Subject:* Zenith-List: 601 to 650....is it worth it?
>
> Hello Everyone:
>
>
> Like everyone else, I have been reading about the tests and trials of our beloved
homebuilt of choice and have taken note of the 650 series released by Zenith.
All of this has
>
> resulted in a self-imposed condition of 'builders paralysis'...I've done nothing
for a very long time ! I'm about 1/2 way through the right wing with the
tail feathers complete.
>
> I haven't stopped working, I believe that if a modification is provided, it would
be retro-fitable to a finished plane. Keep in mind that I'm building from
plans so my progress
> is slower than kit builders.
>
>
>
> After looking through the list of 601 to 650 'improvements', I just cannot see
through the advantages - or the possibilities - of incorporating these improvements
into my airplane.
>
> The new canopy is a no-brainer and is designed to retrofit - that's a good thing.
But some changes - such as the angle of incidence - are just not possible
or practical...yes?
> The canopy is an area where I'm also undecided so far. I like the 650 latching
mechanism and the rollover bar but like the XL canopy in almost everything else.
For a while
> I have been considering putting the 601 XL canopy with the new latch and rollover
bars. Adding the new latch to the 601 XL canopy would not be a problem but
the rollover
> bars is another story.
>
> What does the consensus think? My thoughts are to continue building the wings
but NOT closing them
> up until well after recommendations are issued by Zenith,
> That is a good idea, postpone closing the wings as much as possible, but only
as long as building continues with something else in the project.
> I wouldn't stop my project waiting for a recommendation or a mod.
>
>
> and to order the 601 fuselage kit with the 650 canopy. My thoughts are that's
the limit of 'improvements' I can make without some serious rework of my completed
items.
>
>
> Anyone care to share their thoughts?
>
>
> Thank You in advance
>
>
> Tracy Smith
>
> N458XL (reserved) - Corvair powered
>
> Naugatuck, CT
>
> *
>
>
> *
> *
>
>
> *
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Another 601XL takes to the air |
It's posts like these that keep me going. Congratulations.
Dan Dempsey
601xlcorvair plans builder
do not archive
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256577#256577
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| Subject: | Re: First Condition Inspection Flight |
Scott,
Thanks for posting the video. Great looking plane.
Dan Dempsey
601xlcorvair plans builder
do not archive
--------
Scratch building XL with Corvair Engine
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256578#256578
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
Tracy,
I'm building to the plans marked CH 601 XL. I might call it something else when
I register it, I am the manufacturer and can call it whatever I want.
The XL has been flow for quite sometime now and I really think it will be a good
airplane for my mission.
--------
Ron Lendon, Clinton Township, MI
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
Zodiac XL, ScrapBuilder ;-)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
http://home.comcast.net/~rlendon/site/
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256580#256580
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
They should come thru this time, at least I can now see them in the preview, if
you still can't see them, try the forum view of the list.
William Dominguez
Gig Giacona wrote:
> What comments?
>
>
>
> William Dominguez wrote:
> > See my comments in bold.
> >
> > William Dominguez
> > Zodiac 601XL Plans
> > Miami Florida
>
Hello Everyone:
Like everyone else, I have been reading about the tests and trials of our beloved
homebuilt of choice and have taken note of the 650 series released by Zenith.
All of this has resulted in a self-imposed condition of 'builders paralysis'...I've
done nothing for a very long time ! I'm about 1/2 way through the right
wing with the tail feathers complete.
I haven't stopped working, I believe that if a modification is provided, it would
be retro-fitable to a finished plane. Keep in mind that I'm building from plans
so my progress is slower than kit builders.
After looking through the list of 601 to 650 'improvements', I just cannot see
through the advantages - or the possibilities - of incorporating these improvements
into my airplane. The new canopy is a no-brainer and is designed to retrofit
- that's a good thing. But some changes - such as the angle of incidence
- are just not possible or practical...yes?
The canopy is an area where I'm also undecided so far. I like the 650 latching
mechanism and the rollover bar but like the XL canopy in almost everything else.
For a while I have been considering putting the 601 XL canopy with the new
latch and rollover bars. Adding the new latch to the 601 XL canopy would not be
a problem but the rollover bars is another story.
What does the consensus think? My thoughts are to continue building the wings but
NOT closing them up until well after recommendations are issued by Zenith,
That is a good idea, postpone closing the wings as much as possible, but only as
long as building continues with something else in the project. I wouldn't stop
my project waiting for a recommendation or a mod.
and to order the 601 fuselage kit with the 650 canopy. My thoughts are that's the
limit of 'improvements' I can make without some serious rework of my completed
items.
Anyone care to share their thoughts?
Thank You in advance
Tracy Smith
N458XL (reserved) - Corvair powered
Naugatuck, CT
--------
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256581#256581
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
Let's see if it work now, my comments are in bold and italics.
William Dominguez
William Dominguez wrote:
> They should come thru this time, at least I can now see them in the preview,
if you still can't see them, try the forum view of the list.
>
> William Dominguez
>
>
> Gig Giacona wrote:
> > What comments?
> >
> >
> >
> > William Dominguez wrote:
> > > See my comments in bold.
> > >
> > > William Dominguez
> > > Zodiac 601XL Plans
> > > Miami Florida
> >
>
>
> Hello Everyone:
>
> Like everyone else, I have been reading about the tests and trials of our beloved
homebuilt of choice and have taken note of the 650 series released by Zenith.
All of this has resulted in a self-imposed condition of 'builders paralysis'...I've
done nothing for a very long time ! I'm about 1/2 way through the right
wing with the tail feathers complete.
>
> I haven't stopped working, I believe that if a modification is provided, it would
be retro-fitable to a finished plane. Keep in mind that I'm building from
plans so my progress is slower than kit builders.
>
> After looking through the list of 601 to 650 'improvements', I just cannot see
through the advantages - or the possibilities - of incorporating these improvements
into my airplane. The new canopy is a no-brainer and is designed to retrofit
- that's a good thing. But some changes - such as the angle of incidence
- are just not possible or practical...yes?
>
> The canopy is an area where I'm also undecided so far. I like the 650 latching
mechanism and the rollover bar but like the XL canopy in almost everything else.
For a while I have been considering putting the 601 XL canopy with the new
latch and rollover bars. Adding the new latch to the 601 XL canopy would not
be a problem but the rollover bars is another story.
>
> What does the consensus think? My thoughts are to continue building the wings
but NOT closing them up until well after recommendations are issued by Zenith,
>
> That is a good idea, postpone closing the wings as much as possible, but only
as long as building continues with something else in the project. I wouldn't
stop my project waiting for a recommendation or a mod.
>
>
> and to order the 601 fuselage kit with the 650 canopy. My thoughts are that's
the limit of 'improvements' I can make without some serious rework of my completed
items.
>
> Anyone care to share their thoughts?
>
> Thank You in advance
>
> Tracy Smith
> N458XL (reserved) - Corvair powered
> Naugatuck, CT
--------
William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami Florida
http://www.geocities.com/bill_dom
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 05:31:29PM -0700, William Dominguez wrote:
> Let's see if it work now, my comments are in bold and italics.
Not everyone reads email in HTML.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC, PP-ASEL, CFI-SP http://www.conmicro.com
http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net
Fairmont, MN (KFRM) (Yes, that's me!)
AMD Zodiac CH601XLi N55ZC http://www.tronguy.net/N55ZC.shtml
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| Subject: | Re: 601 to 650....is it worth it? |
Since I am building the 650 kit I feel qualified to throw in a penny or two.
I see little advantage to change the wing incidence if you already have 601 parts.
The angle change of 2 degrees is to make it easier to see over the nose. You
need different front side skins, the four parts that make up the seat bottom,
arm rest, rear wing attachment parts and more. The canopy switch might be worth
it though. I really like the way it looks. It depends on how deep your pockets
are and how tall you are. 8)
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