Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:32 AM - Wanted cracked canopy. (Buryl Hill)
2. 02:23 AM - Re: First Start of an O-200 (Ashley)
3. 05:02 AM - Re: 601HDS to LSA (cherring)
4. 05:43 AM - Re: First Start of an O-200 (Peter W Johnson)
5. 06:25 AM - Re: check your rudder bearing (LarryMcFarland)
6. 06:38 AM - Re: Re: First Start of an O-200 (Jim Belcher)
7. 06:47 AM - OT-(but just barely) NTSB Jumps the Gun... Again (Gig Giacona)
8. 07:05 AM - Re: 601HDS to LSA (Dave)
9. 07:33 AM - Re: Re: 601HDS to LSA (Bill Naumuk)
10. 09:19 AM - HDS to LSA (Bill Shirley Mitchell)
11. 09:51 AM - Re: OT-(but just barely) NTSB Jumps the Gun... Again (Rick Lindstrom)
12. 10:08 AM - Re: Re: 601HDS to LSA (Jim Belcher)
13. 10:13 AM - Re: HDS to LSA (Terry Phillips)
14. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: 601HDS to LSA (jaybannist@cs.com)
15. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: 601HDS to LSA (Paul Mulwitz)
16. 11:20 AM - VGs, final (Bill Naumuk)
17. 12:42 PM - Re: HDS to LSA (Gig Giacona)
18. 01:20 PM - Re: Re: 601HDS to LSA (Jim Belcher)
19. 01:38 PM - Re: Re: 601HDS to LSA (jaybannist@cs.com)
20. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: 601HDS to LSA (Jim Belcher)
21. 05:14 PM - New front Cowl (Afterfxllc@aol.com)
22. 07:42 PM - Re: First Start of an O-200 (dennis hettrick)
23. 10:35 PM - Re: First Start of an O-200 (Peter W Johnson)
24. 11:30 PM - Stuff for sale (LHusky@aol.com)
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| Subject: | Wanted cracked canopy. |
Wanted cracked canopy, clear, front or back, offering $100
bus@commspeed.net
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| Subject: | Re: First Start of an O-200 |
Peter,
I used a Harbor Freight hand pump ( about $5.00) but I believe if you
stick a tube into the oil filter adapter and pour the oil in it should
work. You just need to get some oil to the pump. You are only putting
oil to the pump which is about 5 inches from the oil filter so not much
oil is required. The engine should have been put together with
lubrication on the internal parts.
Floyd
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:07 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Start of an O-200
Floyd,
Did you actually "pump" oil into the center hole or just fill it with
an oil can? (If you pumped, did you make up a pump of some sort?)
I have fitted the oil filter adapter so I could get some oil into the
oil pump that way.
Thanks
Peter
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ashley
Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2009 11:30 AM
To: zenith-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Start of an O-200
Peter,
Do you have an oil filter on the motor?
I unscrewed the filter and pumped oil into the center hole of the
filter adaptor. Unless the oil pump is primed (the above procedure will
prime the pump) there is a large chance you will not get oil pressure.
I removed the top spark plugs and then used the starter to turn the
engine over until oil pressure was indicated. Put the plugs in and you
are good to go.
Floyd Wilkes
601XL O-200
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson
To: continental-list@matronics.com ; zenith-list@matronics.com ;
zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 7:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: First Start of an O-200
Hi Guys,
I am about to start my rebuilt O-200 for the first time. The
Overhaul Manual calls for "Pre-oil the lubrication system using an
external pre-oiling pressure system". I don't have one. What is the best
way to ensure I have oil pressure if the motor magically starts on the
first key?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.comhref="h
ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS to LSA |
That's pretty much what the FAA told me. Just don't make a YouTube video of yourself
in your "LSA" plane flying around at 150 MPH. They did notice when one guy
did that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You will not find an FAA inspector chasing you around to see if your plane stalls
at 45 KCAS or 46.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258392#258392
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| Subject: | First Start of an O-200 |
Thanks Guys (and Gals).
I feel a lot better about the start up now. I did find something on the net
from Fram Filters about priming the oil pump.
I did use a lot of lube when I rebuilt the engine so nothing should be dry.
I'll let you know how it goes.
Cheers
Peter
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy L. Thwing
Sent: Tuesday, 18 August 2009 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Start of an O-200
Hello Peter:
We went through this a couple of months ago when we overhauled the Cont.
C-145 engine in our flying club 1958 Cessna 172. Go to www.eaa163.com click
on flying club link.
A C-145 is a early version of the O-300 which is really a O-200 with two
more cylinders. The cyls. and many parts are identical.
I have a Franklin engine OH manual which says that if you don't have the
"pressure pre-oil system" then you remove the top spark plugs and manually
turn the engine over via the prop 200 revs.
We tried that on the C-145 and were unsuccessful in getting oil pressure to
show. It may work on your O-200. Do you have a tube type oil pressure
gauge that senses oil pressure from the engine clear up to the instrument?
Do you have an electric starter?
We apparently were not able to get the oil pump to prime by turning the prop
by hand. We used the electric starter to spin the engine (spark plugs
removed). This finally primed the pump and we had oil pressure indications.
We have a oil filter adapter, but we did not have the advice that you could
prime the oil pump back through the filter adapter.
There are three other places to get evidence that the pump is primed and oil
is pumping through the engine.
1. If you have the tube type oil pressure gauge, disconnect the oil
pressure instrument line where it connects to the firewall bulkhead fitting.
When the oil pump starts pumping, oil will squirt out there.
2. Face the front of the engine, look at the engine case on either side of
the crank prop flange. On both the left and right, there is a pipe plug on
the front of the engine case. These plugs "plug" the front end of the main
oil galleries. Loosen, preferable the left plug facing the prop flange, and
when oil pressure comes up, oil will come out around this plug.
3. Remove the Rocker arm cover of a front cylinder, when oil pressure comes
up, it will travel through the hollow push rods and drip around the rocker
shaft, etc.
On our C-145, we used the oil pressure gauge tube and the front galley plug.
We already had all the baffles installed making it difficult to remove a
valve cover.
Spinning the engine (spark plugs removed) with the electric starter, it
didn't take long before oil was spurting out the oil pressure tube, and
around the front gallery plug. Both were tightened and we spun the engine
once more and oil pressure was indicated on the oil pressure gauge. We had
a short meeting on whether there was any reason NOT to start the engine.
Couldn't think of a thing. So we fired it off and it's run perfectly for
over a hundred flight hours so far.
We also have a first issue Cessna 150 (1959) which is currently in my back
yard with a newly OH O-200 hanging on it. It's not ready for sartup yet,
but when we do, we will use the above system for pre-oiling.
Let us know how this works out for you.
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W <mailto:vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> Johnson
zenith601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: First Start of an O-200
Hi Guys,
I am about to start my rebuilt O-200 for the first time. The Overhaul Manual
calls for "Pre-oil the lubrication system using an external pre-oiling
pressure system". I don't have one. What is the best way to ensure I have
oil pressure if the motor magically starts on the first key?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: check your rudder bearing |
Frank,
I had the same issue last annual inspection and found the pin was not
snug on the bushing ends. I made another bushing just a tad longer and
it solved the problem.
The bushing has to be a tight fit between the angles or it will allow
motion to tear up the aluminum. I also added a little white lithium
grease on assembly.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Frank Probst wrote:
> The other day on my preflight I noticed a significant amount of play
> in the top rudder attach point of my 601. Then I was at a fly in over
> the weekend with several 601's and they all had some play. One was
> really bad and the rest had quite a bit of play too. The hinge is
> just a bushing running in aluminium. Mine has worn in just 100 hours.
>
> Has anyone come up with a better bearing idea?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank Probst
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of things, check email from other accounts! Check it out.
> <http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid'71350>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: First Start of an O-200 |
When I was an A&P in training, the guy who trained me had me lubricate all the
engine bearings with Lubriplate during assembly. He stated we were doing this
to provide lubricant before the oil system kicked in, and in case we never
built oil pressure.
We (I) have never had a problem as a result of this procedure, although we
never happened to have an oil system that did not built pressure. It is a
critical time, and it is important to monitor the oil pressure very closely.
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 7
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| Subject: | OT-(but just barely) NTSB Jumps the Gun... Again |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_mid_air_collision
Let's look at the time line.
1. Bad Accident
2. NTSB publicly makes comment about controller.
3. Controller's Union Comes out in support of their member.
4. NTSB kicks Union out of investigation because they released information in response
to the NTSB's release of information.
Somebody really needs to tell NTSB to shut the hell up and do their job.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258410#258410
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS to LSA |
Why people beat themselves to death over this subject when you have
organizations "out there" that have already defined aircraft that meet the
definition of aircraft that a Sport Pilot can fly? They already list
"Experimental Zenith 601" as acceptable. Not HD or HDS or XL...just Zenith
601. Agree with them, and FLY!
Dave
Flown in the Rockies, Desert SW, all the plains states west of the
Mississippi and all in my lowly 601 HD!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS to LSA |
All-
Aftermarket was a poor choice of words; after the initial A/W inspection
is more accurate.
As I said, the question of VGs has come up many times before, there is
definitely a Catch 22 as the LSA regs apply to the HDS, and the whole mess
is as clear as mud.
Years ago I contacted EAA Technical as to whether you could build both
sets of wings and register the same airframe to HD/HDS performance
parameters and they said no. I also asked if I could add VGs to an HDS wing
to achieve LSA performance and they said no. I'm not sure whether I
specified the addition of VGs would be made before or after the Phase I
testing.
I suggest that the way to resolve this debate is to contact EAA
Technical and find out whether you're allowed to add VGs to an HDS wing
BEFORE Phase I testing, so I'm going to do just that and will post the
response.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "cherring" <ocean_guy238@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:48 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: Re: 601HDS to LSA
>
> I think I am correct that adding VG's before the original AW Cert would
> help because it would (hopefully) allow the plane to meet the LSA stall
> speed limit. It isn't the VG's themselves that make it compliant or not,
> it is the stall speed, which is what it is as determined during initial
> flight testing. Agreed, adding them later does not allow a plane to meet
> LSA it is has been previously flown outside of the criteria.
>
> Not sure what you mean by "aftermarket" - do you mean after the original
> A/W?
>
>
>>>>>>>>
> "1. You can't add vortex generators to achieve LSA compliance because they
> aren't included in the original design, but are aftermarket. "
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258258#258258
>
>
>
Message 10
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Wow: Lots of good info, thanks everyone. My plane is not certified, yet. LSA rules
state 138 for top speed, HDS top speed 150. Stall speed Dual is LSA 51, HDS
is 54. It sure seems that I for peace of mind should change wings. I'm waiting
for a Zenith reply. Is that wishful thinking?
Bill Mitchell
O-200
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: OT-(but just barely) NTSB Jumps the Gun... Again |
Ah, the old axiom rears its ugly head again...
"When the pilot screws up, the pilot dies.
When the controller screws up, the pilot dies."
See the difference?
Seriously though, all the post-crash finger pointing and blame shifting won't help
the poor souls lost to ever diminishing airspace available to VFR ops (imho).
Rick
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gig Giacona <wrgiacona@gmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 18, 2009 6:47 AM
>To: zenith-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Zenith-List: OT-(but just barely) NTSB Jumps the Gun... Again
>
>
>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_mid_air_collision
>
>Let's look at the time line.
>
>1. Bad Accident
>2. NTSB publicly makes comment about controller.
>3. Controller's Union Comes out in support of their member.
>4. NTSB kicks Union out of investigation because they released information in
response to the NTSB's release of information.
>
>Somebody really needs to tell NTSB to shut the hell up and do their job.
>
>--------
>W.R. "Gig" Giacona
>601XL Under Construction
>See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258410#258410
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS to LSA |
On Monday 17 August 2009 17:37, jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> As I have said before, in this provision of the LSA rules, we have a real
> "Catch 22".? You build an E-AB airplane, fully expecting it to be LSA
> compliant.? Then in Phase 1, you discover that the stall speed is above
> allowable for LSA.? You should be able to make corrections to bring it into
> compliance.? Trouble is that you have had it certified as E-AB.? That
> essentially establishes the physical configuration of the airplane. It has
> been flown outside the limitations for LSA.? According to a strict
> interpretation of the regs, you can not now make the alterations to the
> airframe to bring it into compliance.? In this case we are talking about
> adding VGs, but it would also apply to something like propeller pitch that
> drives the airplane faster that the LSA speed limitations.? Is that bizarre
> and downright unfair?? I think it is a serious glitch in the regs that
> really needs to be corrected.
I think it's easy to forget that Part 23, AC43, etc etc have evolved over many
years. A lot of refinment has occurred to reflect the problems in these
documents. The LSA regs are relatively recent, and have had little
opportunity for real world feedback. As this happens, I would expect
clarification to occur in the LSA regs.
Another factor is that, like a lot of other FAA regs, the onus is on the pilot
in command to insure that the aircraft he/she if flying meets FAA regs. That
seems, if anything, to be more true than usual with the LSA. It's the
responsibility of the PIC to know that the aircraft being flown meets LSA
requirements.
I have a little problem with the word "certificated" as used above. EAB
aircraft are not necessarily certificated in the usual sense of the word. A
type certificated aircraft has a published stall speed, etc, which
establishes it does or does not meet LSA requirements. The FAA does not allow
modification of these aircraft to meet LSA.
But there is no type certificate for EAB. Does this mean you can change it
later to meet LSA requirements? It seems fuzzy to me. Perhaps there will be
clarification later, although we may be better off without the
clarification. :-)
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 13
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Bill
You might also check out Klaus Truemper's website. His wing root fairings
reduced his HDS stall speed to LSA levels. The fairings had other
performance benefits. See
http://www.utdallas.edu/~klaus/Airplane/airplane.html
Terry
At 09:19 AM 8/18/2009 -0700, you wrote:
>Wow: Lots of good info, thanks everyone. My plane is not certified, yet.
>LSA rules state 138 for top speed, HDS top speed 150. Stall speed Dual is
>LSA 51, HDS is 54. It sure seems that I for peace of mind should change
>wings. I'm waiting for a Zenith reply. Is that wishful thinking?
>Bill Mitchell
>O-200
Terry Phillips ZBAGer
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; waiting on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS to LSA |
Jim,
My airplane has an airworthiness certificate. I guess it is a matter of
semantics; but to me, it is certified (not type certified).
Jay Bannister
Do not archive
I have a little problem with the word "certificated" as used above. EAB
aircraft are not necessarily certificated in the usual sense of the word. A
type certificated aircraft has a published stall speed, etc, which
establishes it does or does not meet LSA requirements. The FAA does not allow
modification of these aircraft to meet LSA.
But there is no type certificate for EAB. Does this mean you can change it
later to meet LSA requirements? It seems fuzzy to me. Perhaps there will be
clarification later, although we may be better off without the
clarification. :-)
--
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS to LSA |
Hi Jim,
I agree with all your comments. Indeed, I want to take your thoughts
a few steps further.
The Sport Pilot and Light Sport Aircraft rules have been incredibly
successful. This is different from many other attempts to create new
pilots (e.g. Recreational Pilot) and aircraft (e.g.
ultralight). Some of the previous attempts have seen limited success
such as the part 103 ultralights, but even those didn't have a
significant impact on the National Airspace System or General
Aviation. The SP/LSA rules have had a huge impact on aircraft sales
and pilot licenses and will undoubtedly continue to do so. All you
need to see to be sure of this is the 100 new aircraft makes/models
available as factory new aircraft in the last few years.
After a few months flying an S-LSA I can tell you it gets even more
complicated to operate these aircraft after you solve the initial
go/nogo puzzle. For example, my Tecnam Echo Super has a ground
adjustable propeller. The question comes up of who has the authority
to adjust the pitch on this propeller. The answer is not at all
clear. Is this routine preventive maintenance or a minor or major
aircraft change? As a licensed pilot with no A&P or repairman
certificate I asked several knowledgeable A&Ps whether I could
legally change the pitch on this prop. I got a different answer from
each person I asked. This is not a listed preventive maintenance
activity, so it is not definitely OK for me to do this. It is also a
relatively minor thing to do and might be done before each flight to
tailor the propeller to the mission at hand. The most reasonable
answer I got was if it isn't written in the aircraft logs it didn't happen.
Given the unusual success of the new SP/LSA rules I am sure you are
right, Jim, that we will see many refinements in these
rules. Eventually, nearly all the questions will have clear
answers. For now, my advice to all is to be careful and worry a lot
more about safety and rational thinking than whether you might
exactly meet all the FAA rules or not.
Paul
XL awaiting engineering changes.
At 10:02 AM 8/18/2009, you wrote:
>I think it's easy to forget that Part 23, AC43, etc etc have evolved
>over many
>years. A lot of refinment has occurred to reflect the problems in these
>documents. The LSA regs are relatively recent, and have had little
>opportunity for real world feedback. As this happens, I would expect
>clarification to occur in the LSA regs.
>
>Another factor is that, like a lot of other FAA regs, the onus is on
>the pilot
>in command to insure that the aircraft he/she if flying meets FAA regs. That
>seems, if anything, to be more true than usual with the LSA. It's the
>responsibility of the PIC to know that the aircraft being flown meets LSA
>requirements.
Message 16
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All
Attached is the EAA Tech response- very encouraging. My take is,
install the VGs before Phase I testing and you're OK. Archive this with
5 stars-
Hi Bill,
As a matter of fact, anything that is fixed and does not require any
input from the pilot that is used to reduce the stall speed of an
aircraft will not jeopardize the LSA status of the aircraft . VG's,
fixed slats, dimple tape that is affixed to the airfoil, and any other
fixed, non-deployable aid can be used. Whether these aids actually work
or not is determined during Phase 1 testing. If they do not result in a
stall speed of 45 knots (52 mph) or lower, then the aircraft is not LSA
compliant. The key factor is pilot input, which is why extending flaps
is not allowed to meet the stall speed criteria - the pilot must do
something to make the flaps extend, which adds to the pilot's workload
during a critical phase of flight. If you have any further questions,
please contact me.
Cheers!
Tim
Tim Hoversten, EAA #598743
Technical Aviation Specialist
From: Bill Naumuk [mailto:naumuk@windstream.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 9:39 AM
To: info services
Subject: Vortex Generator
EAA-
Once again, the question of whether vortex generators can be
installed on a Zenith 601HDS wing to ensure LSA compliant stall speed
has come up on the Matronics list. Can VGs be installed prior to
Phase I flight testing to enhance the probability of legally meeting LSA
stall performance limitations?
Thanks.
Bill Naumuk
Townville, Pa.
HDS N601MG/Corvair 95%
Message 17
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slandwcmitch(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Wow: Lots of good info, thanks everyone. My plane is not certified, yet. LSA
rules state 138 for top speed, HDS top speed 150. Stall speed Dual is LSA 51,
HDS is 54. It sure seems that I for peace of mind should change wings. I'm waiting
for a Zenith reply. Is that wishful thinking?
> Bill Mitchell
> O-200
>
Will an HDS really do 150? But even if it will that is easy to fix with a change
in prop pitch and and entry in the POH that what ever RPM makes you exceed 138
not for cruise.
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=258495#258495
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS to LSA |
On Tuesday 18 August 2009 12:25, jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> Jim,
>
> My airplane has an airworthiness certificate. I guess it is a matter of
> semantics; but to me, it is certified (not type certified).
My understanding of a distinction here is that the airworthiness certificate
doesn't say anything about the performance. It says the plane appears to be
constructed properly.
A type certificate goes further in that it says the plane was constructed in
accordance with the specification associated with the type certificate, and
will perform as described there. That ties it to speeds, etc etc.
Yes, they are both certificates, but their meaning is distinct. Usually, when
someone talks about a certificated aircraft, I think it is taken to mean a
type certificated aircraft.
In the LSA world, where legality is tied to performance, I don't think the
airworthiness certificate defines it as an LSA. That appears to become
dependent on the pilot. If the pilot knows that during testing, the aircraft
did not meet LSA requirements, he/she is responsible for this.
Of course, if the aircraft has a type certificate, then the performance
defined for the type certificate would indicate if the plane qualifies as an
LSA or not.
..and with all this, I'm going to get off my soap box, and hide back in my
shop, before someone starts throwing tomatoes...
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS to LSA |
Jim,
Couldn't find any tomatoes - - -? here - - catch this Habenero I found in my pocket.??
( ;>)
..and with all this, I'm going to get off my soap box, and hide back in my
shop, before someone starts throwing tomatoes...
DO NOT ARCHIVE !!
________________________________________________________________________
Email message sent from CompuServe - visit us today at http://www.cs.com
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 601HDS to LSA |
On Tuesday 18 August 2009 15:30, jaybannist@cs.com wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Couldn't find any tomatoes - - -? here - - catch this Habenero I found in
> my pocket.?? ( ;>)
Ahh, the ammo of choice. I have a Habenero patch in my garden. Smoked Habeneos
crumbled on top of a salad - yum, yum.
:-)
--
============================================
Do not archive.
============================================
Jim B Belcher
BS, MS Physics, Math, Computer Science
A&P/IA
Retired aerospace technical manager
============================================
Message 21
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Message 22
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| Subject: | First Start of an O-200 |
I used a pressure can set up. I took a plug out I knew was open to oil gall
eys. I attached a hose from can and used regulator on air hose to pressuriz
e can until the oil flowed. I kept adding pressure [no more than 25 lbs ut
il panel guage read 10 lbs. I left it like this a while then turned prop so
me hoping to get oil smoothed across bearings. When I started it had pressu
re in 3 seconds. It worked. This was suggested by old guy who worked on mil
itary equpment in Korean war including small planes. dennis
From: n4546v@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Zenith-List: First Start of an O-200
Hello Peter:
We went through this a couple of months ago when we overhauled the Cont. C-
145 engine in our flying club 1958 Cessna 172. Go to www.eaa163.com click
on flying club link.
A C-145 is a early version of the O-300 which is really a O-200 with two mo
re cylinders. The cyls. and many parts are identical.
I have a Franklin engine OH manual which says that if you don't have the "p
ressure pre-oil system" then you remove the top spark plugs and manually tu
rn the engine over via the prop 200 revs.
We tried that on the C-145 and were unsuccessful in getting oil pressure to
show. It may work on your O-200. Do you have a tube type oil pressure ga
uge that senses oil pressure from the engine clear up to the instrument? D
o you have an electric starter?
We apparently were not able to get the oil pump to prime by turning the pro
p by hand. We used the electric starter to spin the engine (spark plugs re
moved). This finally primed the pump and we had oil pressure indications.
We have a oil filter adapter=2C but we did not have the advice that you cou
ld prime the oil pump back through the filter adapter.
There are three other places to get evidence that the pump is primed and oi
l is pumping through the engine.
1. If you have the tube type oil pressure gauge=2C disconnect the oil pres
sure instrument line where it connects to the firewall bulkhead fitting. W
hen the oil pump starts pumping=2C oil will squirt out there.
2. Face the front of the engine=2C look at the engine case on either side
of the crank prop flange. On both the left and right=2C there is a pipe pl
ug on the front of the engine case. These plugs "plug" the front end of th
e main oil galleries. Loosen=2C preferable the left plug facing the prop f
lange=2C and when oil pressure comes up=2C oil will come out around this pl
ug.
3. Remove the Rocker arm cover of a front cylinder=2C when oil pressure co
mes up=2C it will travel through the hollow push rods and drip around the r
ocker shaft=2C etc.
On our C-145=2C we used the oil pressure gauge tube and the front galley pl
ug. We already had all the baffles installed making it difficult to remove
a valve cover.
Spinning the engine (spark plugs removed) with the electric starter=2C it d
idn't take long before oil was spurting out the oil pressure tube=2C and ar
ound the front gallery plug. Both were tightened and we spun the engine on
ce more and oil pressure was indicated on the oil pressure gauge. We had a
short meeting on whether there was any reason NOT to start the engine. Co
uldn't think of a thing. So we fired it off and it's run perfectly for ove
r a hundred flight hours so far.
We also have a first issue Cessna 150 (1959) which is currently in my back
yard with a newly OH O-200 hanging on it. It's not ready for sartup yet=2C
but when we do=2C we will use the above system for pre-oiling.
Let us know how this works out for you.
Regards=2C
Randy=2C Las Vegas
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson
601-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday=2C August 17=2C 2009 5:43 PM
Subject: Zenith-List: First Start of an O-200
Hi Guys=2C
I am about to start my rebuilt O-200 for the first time. The Overhaul Manua
l calls for =93Pre-oil the lubrication system using an external pre-oiling
pressure system=94. I don=92t have one. What is the best way to ensure I ha
ve oil pressure if the motor magically starts on the first key?
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://zodiac.cpc-world.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List">http://www.matronhr
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
- Release Date: 08/17/09 18:04:00
Message 23
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| Subject: | First Start of an O-200 |
Hi Guys,
I made up a pressure oiler and fed it into the pressure gauge outlet. I have
oil coming out of both the front oil gallery plugs so looks like were good
to go. If the weather is OK tomorrow I'll see if she starts (and has some
good oil pressure readings!).
Thanks
Peter
_____
From: owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-zenith-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dennis hettrick
Sent: Wednesday, 19 August 2009 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: Zenith-List: First Start of an O-200
I used a pressure can set up. I took a plug out I knew was open to oil
galleys. I attached a hose from can and used regulator on air hose to
pressurize can until the oil flowed. I kept adding pressure [no more than
25 lbs util panel guage read 10 lbs. I left it like this a while then turned
prop some hoping to get oil smoothed across bearings. When I started it had
pressure in 3 seconds. It worked. This was suggested by old guy who worked
on military equpment in Korean war including small planes. dennis
Message 24
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List,
I have 2 CZAW factory built 12 gal tanks with the senders recessed in the
top of the tank for sale. They come with the caps also. They are
completely custom and they are really nice tanks. I also have a complete set
of
composite gear for sale with all the metal brackets factory made. This gear
has 320 hrs. on it. They have the light weight gold wheels on them with
brand new tires and brake pads. They also come with very nice wheel pants.
I also have the front strut with matching tire and wheel pants. I may have
other things come up since I just bought a Quick Build Kit. The landing
gear will also come with the CZAW plans for the gear. If you have not
installed your gear channel, then this is easy. If you have, you will have to
remove it and make a new one that is a little deeper. Very nice parts. I
am open to offers or other stuff like, radios, transponder, instruments,
O200 FWF stuff, ???? I know that I at least will have a flap control tube for
sale and I am unsure what else. Rudder pedals will be for sale, but I
just do not know which ones yet? The CZAW ones are really nice and I may swap
them out. I am unsure about selling the CZAW canopy. It is nice and if
it fits good on my QBK, I will use it and sell the other canopy. I wish I
could use this gear, but it would be to much to retro it into the QBK. Not
undoable, just not for me. I want to fly soon.
Email me off list for pictures of the parts.
Larry Husky
Madras, Oregon
Back in the game!!!!
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